[Official SSB4 Discussion] --- Nintendo announces 2 new Smash games!

[Barbasol]

Hey guys, newbie here.

I have a tradition, when a new console is released for Nintendo, and a Smash bros seems imminent, I scour the net to put together what I believe to be a 'somewhat' realistic and logical roster.

So, here's phase one of 52 characters. This is the roughest form so far. I already see a few that have probably no chance [Fawful and Sturm especially]. I was wanting to get some interesting roster discussion and critique going.

http://img864.imageshack.us/img864/1523/brawl4rosterprediction.png

So, have at it.

EDIT- Some of my concerns;
- King K Rool seems like a logical choice, but I doubt he could come across as anything more than a Dedede/Bowser crossover.
- Vaati AND Skull Kid? I can't see both.
- New Pokemon rep. I dont know these new gens very well, I doubt Lucario is anything more than a flavor of the month. Who else? Genesect? Darkrai?
- Tails makes sense to me personally, but I bet this will be divisive.

 

[User33]

I'll post a few things that stand out to me:

Vaati: Not happening. Hasn't appeared in a game since 2004, forgotten by all but the most hardcore Zelda fans, owned by Capcom, wasn't even a sticker in Brawl (lol), niche character

Skull Kid: Also not happening, hasn't appeared since Majora's Mask, niche character

Geno: Only appeared in one Mario game, Paper Mario is a much more recent more well known series, probable licensing issues with Square-Enix, wasn't even a sticker in brawl, niche character

Krystal: Wolf's probably staying over her. His moveset is completely different from Fox's (20/22 unique moves), there's no real reason to remove him

 

[GTZ]

I would say "crono" from chronotrigger, k.rool from dk obviously has been unfairly excluded.. oh f-it! heres a list: *assuming all current characters stay*
- k.rool (king/pirate/boxing/mad scientist form)
- crono (obvi a great character)
- mewtwo (shouldn't have been eliminated)
- fierce diety link/young link ocarina duo
- geno (should've been been in brawl to begin with)
- isaac/felix (may be a good choice)
- MEGAMAN (legends version would work well here, but it is a must have)
- bowser jr (...maybe a stretch but ok he's on the same category as "birdo")
- birdo (see above)
- ridley (maybe useful and definitely qualified)
- samurai goro (very good idea for an f-zero villain)
- toadsworth (lmao)
- shadow the hedgehog
- simon belmont (the castlevania nes/snes version is awesome and simon would be awesome as a character in smash 4)
- arthur (ghosts and goblins was the hardest game ever as a kid lol)
- earthworm jim (friggin awesome idea for a character, top tier for sure)

 

[Shorts]

Krystal: Wolf's probably staying over her. His moveset is completely different from Fox's (20/22 unique moves), there's no real reason to remove him

Krystal 100% Unique. Wolf is not completely different. But, I've said this all before. Heck, we've said all of this all before. This is why I like rumors. They give us something new to talk about. We've all heard me ramble about my kooky clone-costume falco, add krystal and revamp wolf. I'm excited for something new to come out of E3.

On another note, does anyone know how popular Geno was among fans during the Pre-Melee days? I know he was pretty popular and spurred probably the most memorable rumor of Brawl, but what about before Melee?

 

[Sonic Poke]

I would say "crono" from chronotrigger, k.rool from dk obviously has been unfairly excluded.. oh f-it! heres a list: *assuming all current characters stay*
- k.rool (king/pirate/boxing/mad scientist form)
- crono (obvi a great character)
- mewtwo (shouldn't have been eliminated)
- fierce diety link/young link ocarina duo
- geno (should've been been in brawl to begin with)
- isaac/felix (may be a good choice)
- MEGAMAN (legends version would work well here, but it is a must have)
- bowser jr (...maybe a stretch but ok he's on the same category as "birdo")
- birdo (see above)
- ridley (maybe useful and definitely qualified)
- samurai goro (very good idea for an f-zero villain)
- toadsworth (lmao)
- shadow the hedgehog
- simon belmont (the castlevania nes/snes version is awesome and simon would be awesome as a character in smash 4)
- arthur (ghosts and goblins was the hardest game ever as a kid lol)
- earthworm jim (friggin awesome idea for a character, top tier for sure)

While I agree much with your list, most of the characters you mentioned are very obvious choices, the SSB franchise always surprises us with characters very unlikely. For example, if Sheik SSBM was not entered into, nobody would consider it as having a chance in Brawl, as I recall, she only appeared in a Zelda game. when discussed SSB3 not remember anyone having quoted ZSS, Snake and Pokemon Trainer, and I doubt that anyone dreamed of Mr. Game & Watch in Melee. So, can we have more creativity?

I think so:

Retro (ie creative):
Joe (Caveman Ninja)
Bonk (Bonk)
Blues Brothers (Blues Brothers)

The rest is obvious: Daisy, Waluigi, Vaati, Ear ... Jim, K. Rool, Dixie, Fluff Prince, Knukle Joe, PKMN Trainer 2 or Rockets, etc ...

I also think that the four unique series that are likely to have more than 4 slots are: Mario, Pokemon, Kirby and TLOZ.

 

[Barbasol]

I find the most interesting part of the next Smash Bros isn't so much the bolstering of current series, but rather the addition of new lesser known series. Arguably, Nintendo's fienst franchises are all represented, but there's this level of other smaller series' that are sort of neglected. What do you all think will make it into the fold?

I'd argue the Wars series (Advance, Battalion, Famicon) is probably the most deserving. Wars has spanned fifteen whole titles since 1988. That's VERY interesting considering say Pikmin has had 2, Kid Icarus has had 1 single title at time of Brawl, and even a major series like Star Fox has only had (i think) five.

So, yeah, Wars is far overdue for having at least one rep. I chose Andy since he's the first CO used in the Advance Wars series. And since I'm thinking it's deserving enough to warrant two characters, added Sturm as the main villain.

Thoughts?

 

[Differentialism]

I'm not sure if Nintendo is developing SSB4 as we speak...it has only been 4 years since the last one. I actually don't want Sakurai to help make another SSB because the series needs a new style. Hopefully Nintendo can incorporate some type of balance between characters.

 

[Spydr Enzo]

Hey guys, newbie here.

http://img864.imageshack.us/img864/1523/brawl4rosterprediction.png

So, have at it.

I like a lot of your choices, but others, not so much.

-First of all, the Mario series. I don't deny the possibility of the series receiving two new slots, and I agree that Bowser Jr. is a likely choice. But there are a couple characters that I'd expect to see before Fawful. First is Toad... I've defended Toad too often here and I've grown tired of it, but I will again if you need me too. Another is Paper Mario. If anyone will get in to represent the Super Mario RPG series, it will be Paper Mario, not Fawful. And Geno... no.

-Donkey Kong series looks good... King K. Rool and Diddy Kong are both likely to get in if you ask me, although the series would feel more "complete" if both got in, which is also a possibility.

-I don't agree with your choices for the Legend of Zelda series. Both the Skull Kid and Vaati are outdated characters that haven't had iconic roles for several years. Honestly, I think the Zelda series is fine as it is as far as number of slots go. The only changes that need to be made include a revamp in both Ganondorf's moveset and Toon Link's moveset (if he returns).

-Metroid is perfect. No disagreements there. Same with Yoshi and Kirby.

-What you suggested Starfox actually seems like a possibility, although I feel like all four could get in. I don't know why people find that so absurd.

-I like how you kept Pikachu, Jigglypuff, AND the Pokemon Trainer around. I really don't think those three are leaving, not even the Pokemon Trainer's original Pokemon. It is also VERY likely that we'll see a popular 5th-generation Pokemon, like Zoroark or Victini.

-EarthBound, Pikmin, F-Zero and Wario look fine as well. I don't have much to say about Fire Emblem since I don't know much about the series, but Lyn is indeed a popular choice. If Fire Emblem gets another slot, it is also likely that we'll see the return of Roy.

-Now about your new series... most of the choices do seem logical to me. But I don't really think we'll see two slots for the Wars series if it gets represented.

-For any third-party series, we will never (sorry augusto) see more than one character to represent the series. This is still a Nintendo game, so I'm sure the developers would like to put more emphasis on the Nintendo series rather than the third-party.

 

[Barbasol]

Ah yes, Paper Mario, that was one of the concepts I mulled over. I came to the same conclusion as I did with Toon Link; why have a copy of the protagonist when another character can do the same thing. My thinking was instead of Paper Mario being another Mario (some people don't see it as a problem, I sorta do, though Paper Mario makes the most sense of all these copies to be included), why not have an actual character represent the series. Geno and Fawful were a fan favourites, included even though I never played their games XD. I agree though, especially since Geno is owned by Square. Paper Mario it is.

I was very surprised to learn Vaati was owned by Capcom... I see the developer was bought by Capcom after the series was made... He's probably in Intellectual Property Limbo I'm guessing. Explains why he didn't get a sticker in Brawl.

Skull Kid isn't done YET. While his major appearance is fading into distant memory, he still was in Twilight Princess and will be in the 3DS remake of OOT. I guess I'll wait to see if he's in Skyward Sword. If he isn't, I may axe him, but until then, I'll consider him Zelda's fourth rep in lieu of Toon Link.

Yeah, I'm not sure about Tails. It depends on what wins out: Nintendo Puritanical Values or Rabid Fandom Outcry. Tails was widely requested alongside Sonic, so I'm not sure...

Lol, I was THIS close to taking out ol' Jiggles and adding a different Pokecharacter. Apperantly she barely squeaked into Brawl? Dunno, if it was me, I'd totally let her go and put a more valuable character in... But this is going for probability, not what I necessarily want.

Ty for the discussion! Let's keep rolling!

 

[majora_787]

... Seriously? Geno, and now Vaati?

And I could have sworn that Sora was original property, while most of the other characters in Kingdom Hearts were borrowed with legal rights from Disney and Square Enix? Or something?

 

[•Col•]

Wait what? Vaati is owned by Capcom? That doesn't sound right... Why was he in Four Swords Adventures then? He was the main antagonist in that game and as far as I know, Capcom wasn't involved in the development at all... Did Nintendo specifically license him from Capcom for that one game?

 

[majora_787]

Wait what? Vaati is owned by Capcom? That doesn't sound right... Why was he in Four Swords Adventures then? He was the main antagonist in that game and as far as I know, Capcom wasn't involved in the development at all... Did Nintendo specifically license him from Capcom for that one game?

Well, Geno was a main character of a mario game, but is owned by Square Enix. But I dunno if Capcom actually was involved in those games.

EDIT: People on Gamefaqs are so silly... They think that fistcuffs is legitimately a more likely than Strife, when one's a rumor and the other is bull****.

Also, they all seem deaf to Sakurai's statements on smash sequels. xD It's... funny to watch.

 

[Barbasol]

Capcom wasn't involved. Nintendo used an second-party to develop the project, which was bought out by Capcom at least one year after the games were completed... so... Who knows, it depends on who controls the IP of Vaati. It could be a total non-issue... or it could mean Vaati will never see the light of day again.

 

[Kantrip]

Alright, a few nitpicks on things said:

Regarding K. Rool: He would be completely unique. Sporting a kannonball blunderbuss, a krown, a helikopter jetpack, even boxing gloves from 64, K. Rool has a lot of moveset options. Just because he's another heavy doesn't mean he gets shoved into their category. I can post a completely unique moveset with everything included if need be, but I think it can safely be said K. Rool deserves a spot and if anything invalidates that, it's not that he would be too similar to Bowser or DeDeDe.

With Paper Mario: Paper Mario would also be pretty unique imo. With the ability to fold himself up into a paper airplane (gliding for a non-winged character, probably as his up b), and the fact that he is so much lighter than regular mario, his playstyle would already be shifted from that of his 3-dimensional counterpart. Then you have his hammer, the little sidekicks he picks up, and all the little quirks he gets from being made of paper, and you have a character that is different than Mario, for sure. I just wish Toon Link could've gotten the same treatment.

I agree with other things being said. I like the speculation rosters so far. Third parties shouldn't be too expected, and I would like to see more smaller franchises getting represented (though Wars should not jump into Smash with 2 characters).

 

[Shorts]

Well Barbasol, you put some time into your roster, so I'll take a look at it and give you my opninion.

At first glance I notice how Mario, Legend of Zelda, and Pokemon do not match up. This isn't really a problem, but it's nice to see the those three have the same amount of characters. In general you tended to overrepresent series, and you didn't really use the amount of slots you gave to their fullest extent. You could have brought more series into it.

Legend of Zelda - Majora definitely has a small chance. Vaati is one of my favorite characters, and he still has a low chance as well. Too many Loz in general. I would prefer to see five. Four is okay as well. But six is a bit much.

Mario - I suppose IF Geno got in, he COULD be considered a Mario character, but lets remember he is a third party character and probably should be put with the rest of them. I like Geno, but the only thing he has going for him is his popularity, and Nintendo somehow realizing how popular he is. His situation is weird, no one knows exactly where he is. But we all have our theories. He definitely has the most rumors about his inclusion in Brawl. Hopefully nintendo recognized them. Bowser Jr is a good choice. Him, PM, or Toad are good choices. Why is fawful so far down there? Again, I would prefer five Mario characters, but six is okay, I guess.

Metroid/Kirby - They're AOK!

StarFox - Has a lot of different formulas on which of the four characters should get in. Your choice is fine.

Pokemon - Five slots. end of story. If we give Zelda six, and Mario Seven, Pokemon needs at least five. The lack of any other generation disturbs me. Gen 2 - 5 ARE GOOD GENERATIONS! Victini? Zoroark? New PT? Deoxys? they all have a chance. Mewtwo is cool, and I love him. But why does he have to return? If you want to play as him, play Melee. The choice to bring him back isn't really a bad choice, but I just feel like he is taking up space for a new character. Also, I know the Fire emblem characters are cool, but they will never have the same amount of characters as Pokemon. Those games are just on two different scales.

FE/DK/F-Zero - Fire Emblem could use three. preferrably a strong female like Lyn, or Miciaha, or Caeda. They just don't need more then three right now. Dk is good. f-Zero is fine as well.

The next row is nice. Good choices, but Sturm probably should be replaced with another new franchise.

Lastly, no tails. no. no. no.

So, overall I think it's a decent list, but if we replace tails, Majora, Vaati(Or tingle), Fawful, Sturm, and Black Knight with a fifth pokemon and new franchises I would be okay with this list. You sort of lacked a new retro character btw.

 

[Sonic Poke]

I agree with other things being said. I like the speculation rosters so far. Third parties shouldn't be too expected, and I would like to see more smaller franchises getting represented (though Wars should not jump into Smash with 2 characters).

Do you like lists of speculation? Look at mine:
12 Veterans 64
11 Veterans Melee
14 Veterans Brawl (except Toon Link and Lucario)
Daisy (different movements of peach, not necessarily inspired by Mario sports, his final smash could be a sandstorm)
Waluigi (movements based in mario tennis, his final smash could be 'playing tennis alone, "where he throws characters on one side of the arena to the other sequentially, providing a series of combos)
Rockets (main villains in the series pokemon, with an updated form of triple finish as final smash)
Megaman (unique Character third party who I think has a realistic chance of appearing, not yet thought of any final smash)
Bonk (the child of the caves could eat huge chunks of their flesh, get the big one, and destroy everything in front. This would his final smash)
Vaati (he could become a giant eye and shoot fire at enemies)
Meowth (the other mascot PKMN could use its Pay Day harder to provide the final smash combos)
Isaac (his current attack assist trophy would be his final smash)
Samurai Goroh (Fire Stingray would be his final smash)
Lyn (Final Smash: The screen darkens, the Focus and then Lyn having teleported, she Delivers a single, powerful strike focused on the nearest opponent)
Ninten (PK Techno)

 

[Jaklub]

Mewtwo is cool, and I love him. But why does he have to return? If you want to play as him, play Melee. The choice to bring him back isn't really a bad choice, but I just feel like he is taking up space for a new character.

So much this.

Lastly, no tails. no. no. no.

I don't really agree with this one, but I can see why you disapprove that.

Bonk (the child of the caves could eat huge chunks of their flesh, get the big one, and destroy everything in front. This would his final smash)

Hudson died.
Bomberman has no chance for coming in.
Why would this have one? It faded into obscurity long, long time ago.

 

[Spydr Enzo]

@Sonic Poke:

The only characters on your list that have a realistic chance of appearing in SSB4 are Megaman, Isaac, and maybe even Samurai Goroh or Lyn. Some of the others would be neat, but are unlikely. I also agree that Lucario and Toon Link have the highest chances of getting cut.

Alright, everyone seems to be posting speculation rosters, and since I like doing that anyway, I guess I'll post mine again for some of the newcomers in this thread:

SUPER MARIO
-Mario
-Luigi
-Peach
-Toad
-Bowser
-Bowser Jr.

DONKEY KONG
-Donkey Kong
-Diddy Kong/Dixie Kong
-King K. Rool

THE LEGEND OF ZELDA
-Link
-Zelda/Sheik
-Ganondorf
-Toon Link
-Toon Zelda

METROID
-Samus/Zero Suit Samus
-Ridley

YOSHI
-Yoshi

KIRBY
-Kirby
-Meta Knight
-King Dedede

STAR FOX
-Fox
-Falco
-Wolf
-Krystal

POKEMON
-Pikachu
-Jigglypuff
-Pokemon Trainer (Squirtle, Ivysaur, Charizard)
-Mewtwo
-Zoroark

F-ZERO
-Captain Falcon
-Samurai Goroh

MOTHER/EarthBound
-Ness
-Lucas

FIRE EMBLEM
-Marth
-Ike
-Roy

WARIOWARE
-Wario

PIKMIN
-Olimar

NEW SERIES CHARACTERS
-Isaac
-Ray Mk III

RETRO CHARACTERS
-Ice Climbers
-Pit
-Little Mac
-Mr. Game & Watch
-R.O.B.
-Balloon Fighter

THIRD PARTY CHARACTERS
-Snake
-Sonic
-Megaman



There are 49 slots total. There are 14 newcomers, one of which shares a slot with a veteran (Dixie Kong). Let me explain my reasoning behind some of these choices:

1) I gave Mario two more slots because I feel like the series is deserving enough for six total slots, not to mention it lost one from Brawl to Melee. Both Bowser Jr. and Toad are very deserving in my eyes, and with the inclusion of these characters, the Mario series finally seem more complete to me as far as playable representation goes.

2) Like the Mario series, I included both Dixie Kong AND King K. Rool because the inclusion of both would make the series feel more complete to me. Both are popular, familiar characters of the Donkey Kong series and have even appeared in Mario spin-offs.

3) Honestly, I think the Zelda series would be fine with only four slots. But I included Toon Zelda because I felt like because I increased the number of slots for Mario and Pokemon, I should do the same for the Zelda series. I picked Toon Zelda because she is one of the forbidden seven and has appeared more often than other characters... and I hate Tingle. Sure, the chances of her beign a clone are high, but I'm also hoping for a revamped moveset for both Toon Link and Ganondorf.

4) I really don't want to get into another 20-page-long discussion about Pokemon, so I'll try to keep this brief. I revived Mewtwo and cut Lucario because a roster full of first generations, an appropriate "flavor of the month" Pokemon, and then a random fourth generation Pokemon just seems odd to me. I could continue with more, but this is all I am going to say on the subject here.

5) Even though F-Zero is supoosedly dead, I feel like it could use another slot. A character that is popular and familiar among both F-Zero fans and Smash fans like Samurai Goroh is a logical choice.

6) I revived Roy because of Fire Emblem's lack of new titles. Despite this, I feel like a third slot is very possible, and so I gave it to Roy, a Fire Emblem character popular among Smash fans who are unfamiliar with Fire Emblem.

 

[Shorts]

I think these fan rosters need to look at a smaller amount of characters, and more veteran cuts. I feel that IF the series gets the revamp it deserves, we are likely to see this. Less clones and more unique characters who fit niches. I always try to keep my roster shy of 45. (Although my last one was 47)

What I'm expecting in the next smash is:
- Less returning characters then usual, but more unique playstyles
- Maybe 4 - 7 characters that expand on a returning series (1-2 Pokemon, Mario, Loz, FE, Metroid, Ki)
- More smaller series reps.
- At least two 3rd party characters. (I think that SSB is an oppertunity like no other and companies will be jumping on the chance. We've heard those Megaman/Geno rumors during pre-brawl. we also have Suda51 making statemenst about No More Heroes. It's something to be thinking about.

 

[Steam]

I honestly don't know why people are thinking they'll cut lucario for mewtwo. mewtwo's not coming back ahead of lucario at this point lol. Lucario has an army of 12 year old fanboys that mewtwo had 10 years ago. Zoroark will probably be a pokeball pokemon that first appears as any random pokemon then is suddenly zoroark and does some special attack of his. like a reverse clefairy or something.

Mewtwo stands a decent shot at making it though. zoroark never really lived up to the hype.

 

[Spydr Enzo]

I really hate to admit that I care about content more than the actual gameplay itself. I mean, the whole purpose of the Smash seems more driven toward uniting all fans of Nintendo by bringing together the companies biggest stars, most infamous locations, greatest music, and basically everything else Nintendo. I see Smash as sort of a virtual Nintendo Museum, or a virtual Nintendo Encyclopedia, if that makes sense. It's basically a game that showcases the best of the series from it's beginning to it's current status. I very VERY rarely play competitively and instead play casually amongst my buddies, and this might have to do with the fact that I don't care about gameplay as much as I care about content.

That being said, one might think I prefer Brawl over Melee, due to the fact that Brawl blows away Melee in terms of content. But this is not true, and one reason is in fact because of gameplay, although there are several other reasons. Melee's gameplay was closer to what I want to see in a Smash game due to the fact that it had much more depth than Brawl. While content is great, gameplay is also very important.

With that in mind, let me explain what I truly hope for in a Smash game:

1) First of all, content. The game should include the companies most popular series, and somehow capture the best points of each series throughout their history, from their beginnings to now. Every series needs to feel "complete," if that makes sense.

2) Gameplay. I really do not think we need a total revamp in the gameplay. Add a couple new things here and there to keep it fresh, but we don't need to change the formula. It's the same formula that caused people to fall in love with the series in the first place, why ruin it? But at the same time, give it more depth. Something more like Melee is what I'd like.

3) Finally, longevity. By providing a plethora of Nintendo content and gameplay with depth, the game should keep players occupied for years. Furthermore, hidden content should not be easily handed to players. Melee had this right. IIn Brawl, you could have half of the roster unlocked within three days. This was not the case with Melee... you had to work for your rewards. It is the rewarding feeling that keeps people coming back.

 

[Barbasol]

I've recently had a change of heart in regards to an animal crossing rep, it probably really deserves one. I'm curious as to the possibility of inclusion, it seems since Smashville exists that it's almost LESS likely to happen... but who knows... I heard a rumour there was originally a plan to have a player character from AC be playable...

I'm sure it comes down to Tom Nook or K.K. Slider though.... hmmm....

 

[Shorts]

I really hate to admit that I care about content more than the actual gameplay itself. I mean, the whole purpose of the Smash seems more driven toward uniting all fans of Nintendo by bringing together the companies biggest stars, most infamous locations, greatest music, and basically everything else Nintendo.

And none of this matters if the gameplay isn't kept at a certain standard. You can't care about content of a game that you hate. I promise that the content won't matter if the series is dumbed down even further because you won't like the game. It's like playing a Nintendo x Capcom version of pong. Sure it has all this awesomeness, but thet gameplay sucks and you get bored after ten minutes.

That being said, I like your three comments. I agree that each series needs to feel complete, but most are complete as of now. I'm excited for the smalled franchises, hopeful revamps of characters like Ganon and Wolf (If he is kept), and most of all characters like Bowser Jr, Vaati, and Medusa. The characters that aren't needed, but are really cool and would make fanboys squeal. I like to call them icing characters.

As for gameplay, I am hoping for something a tad more complex then Melee, but at the same level is fine I suppose. So long as it isn't just "Melee 2.0".

You could call me an extremist I suppose. I would rather have characters like Falco and Lucas become alternate costumes. (To make room for different playstyles) I prefer a game that is more difficult than Melee. I would like to have a roster of Unique characters(even if that means not as many), and I want it to take a long time for me to unlock all the hidden content. I would prefer my smash on the extreme side. Not so fluffy and beginer friendly.

 

[Steam]

I wouldn't have a problem with falco being his own character seeing as he plays nothing like fox in brawl.

 

[Barbasol]

I want to thank people for the responses and critiquing of my previous roster! Good points came up. So, I'll delve into my choices a bit here;

Edition Cuts-
Snake; Unless Sakurai returns and once again pities Kojima's whining, I think its safe to say this left field inclusion has no lasting impact in the Smash universe.
Jigglypuff; It barely made it into Melee and Brawl, and popularity at an all time low, Jigglypuff was scrapped at an attempt to revitalize the series. Smash Seniority be damned.
Sturm/Fawful/Vaati/Black Knight; Cut the fat off extra characters.

Edition Additions;
Victini; A fantastic fifth generation add, I'm amazed I didn't see it earlier. Being a cute little creature allows it to be a spiritual successor to Jigglypuff and Pichu, yet fresh and relevant. Aside from Zoarark, is the poster-boy for Gen 5.
Darkrai; Currently the second most popular Pokemon overall, Darkrai adds a valuable forth generation rep. Top popularity pokemon is Arceus, but seems unworkable in Smash environment. Darkrai even more popular than Pikachu amongst Pokefans.
K.K. Slider; The new animal crossing rep. Was torn between Tom Nook and Slider. Slider chosen due to popularity.
Mach Rider; With cuts to other series, brought in Mach Rider as a new series retro character.
Paper Mario; Representing the RPG series': Mario and Luigi, Paper Mario, and Super Mario RPG.
----

Anymore thoughts? Skull Kid and Tails are the obvious eyebrow raisers right now. Skull Kid's fate rides on Skyward Sword, Tails is very popular and the Sonic series is blessing the Wii with several exclusives... so we'll see.

 

[majora_787]

Lemme just comment on a few things.

Tingle: We have Skull Kid/Majora, as well as the other zelda regulars. So even if people liked Tingle, the series has enough. o_O And I don't think Toon Link deserves to be replaced by... that.

Victini: I think will not make it in over Zoroark, Zoroark being the original GenV promo and all.

Darkrai: ... I don't think so. Not because it's a bad idea, but because the 4th generation happened already. I wouldn't expect Darkrai in a game at this point.

K. K. Slider: Not Tom Nook, or Animal Crosser? I mean, Slider has the least potential of the three as a character, not that that says too much.

Andy: ...I don't think so. I really don't. Considering he's a strategist, not a brawler of any nature. Unless he fights from the background, which would be cheap to the nth unless characters could attack the background all of a sudden.

Paper Mario: See Tingle. However, not because people don't like Paper Mario; it's because we have Mario, and Paper Mario is essentially Mario's Zamus.

Tails: Uhm. No. We can't just take away Sonic's "VIP Guest" status.

Geno: He'd be a 3rd party edition, and he's forgotten by time as it is. Sadly. So in all realism, I don't think so.

Krystal: I wouldn't care if you put her on, if you had left Wolf on. I don't fathom how people can take an important character and replace them with the bane of the Star Fox series.

 

[Barbasol]

As much as it makes you and I cringe... Tingle deserves to be in Smash more than Skull Kid. Outside Japan, people are creeped out by a grown man in tights who wants to be a fairy... but he's REALLY quite popular in the land of the Rising Sun, where Smash's market tends to cater to. The little creep has his own spin-off, after all.

Yeah Tom Nook is probably a better choice... Hopefully they don't make Animal Crosser though, that'd be so uninspired.

I was considering Zoroark, but from my digging, it seems he's not as popular as Gamefreak hoped he'd be. Pokemon is the most up in the air in term of Roster slots. Should be interesting who comes out.

Come on now, you can't possibly believe Fox, Falco, AND Wolf should ALL be in. Why have wolf when he could be a color swap, that's really all he is now. Star Fox is lucky enough to have two reps, adding in Krystal just allows for another logical female. Plus she's the face of the new generation of Fox games.

I'm not sold on Tails either, but... we'll see. Same with Geno. Third parties are difficult to predict.

 

[Llumys]

Wolf is not a clone of Fox. Do not go there; it's not debatable.

 

[Spydr Enzo]

First of all, I really really do not think Tails or any other Sonic character will ever see playable status in Smash (at least Smash Bros. 4). I can say the same for any other second character for any third party series already represented (no Gray Fox from Metal Gear). I am 99.9% confident of this. See, the reasoning behind all of this is simple... this is a Nintendo game. A game meant to combine all things Nintendo. And while we are running low on viable Nintendo candidates, there are still quite a few that deserve to be playable before any non-Nintendo character. It is really quite logical. And sorry if this sounds harsh, but honestly, no one here will take your roster seriously if it does include Tails... because the chances of that really happening are quite low. Also, Geno's time is up. If his popularity was really worth anything, he would have somehow appeared in Brawl, but he didn't. It's not only because of issues regarding his third party status, but also because there are so many other great ways to represent the Super Mario RPG series, and Mario in general. If I wanted my roster to be taken seriously, I'd remove Tails and Geno.

NOW, about the Legend of Zelda. There is no way Toon Link will be cut for the addition of Majora/Skull Kid... or even Tingle. The only way Toon Link would be cut is if Young Link was being revived. Honestly, I think it is very possible that we'll see no newcomers and rather revamps of both Toon Link's and Ganondorf's movesets.

I wouldn't add any Animal Crossing characters, to be honest. The series is fine being represented by a stage... that is all it really needs anyway. But if it had to have a character, I'd expect Tom Nook, Animal Croser, and even Mr. Resetti before K. K. Slider.

I liked your Pokemon roster (and whole roster in general) better the first time. I really don't think Jigglypuff is getting cut, especially not now after she has been in every game in the series. Jigglypuff has a unique aerial play-style that a lot of smashers probably favor too. Also, Darkrai's time is up. What makes you say he has so much popularity? I was under the impression that Deoxys was much more popular; I've seen WAY more requests for him than for Darkrai... not to mention his popularity got him a Poke Ball appearance in Brawl, unlike Darkrai.

One last thing: I noticed your "New Franchises: list, and just had to comment. Even though he has his own spin-offs, I don't think Tingle would get his own series, considering these games were only released in Japan. Being released internationally has a much bigger impact than being released only in Japan. It isn't like Sakurai or any game devloper ignores the rest of the world, which people in this thread seem to forget. Also, Paper Mario and Super Mario RPG wouldn't have their own series. Even if they did, they'd be part of the same series: Paper Mario IS a Super Mario RPG game. Anyway, this would be like giving Toon Link his own series, or Metroid Prime it's own series.

 

[Llumys]

May I post my roster? Okay? Awesome. It's generic, but I think it's realistic. I don't think there should be too many characters, honestly.

Mario
Luigi
Bowser
Peach
Wario
Yoshi
Donkey Kong
Diddy Kong
King K. Krool
Link
Zelda
Sheik
Ganondorf
Tingle
Pikachu
Jigglypuff
Mewtwo
Some fifth generation character not worth fighting over
Kirby
Meta Knight
King Dedede
Fox
Wolf
Samus
Isn't there another Metroid character deserving of a slot but isn't a humongous dragon?
Lucas
Captain Falcon
Marth
Some Fire Emblem character not worth fighting over
Ice Climbers
Mr. Game & Watch
Pikmin & Olimar
Isaac
Starfy
Little Mac
Sonic

Go on and hate.

 

[Barbasol]

@Llumys Ahaha, thats the most reasonable, undebatable roster I've seen yet.

EDIT: Whoa whoa whoa.... It's just... weird to see another Saskatchewan person anywhere online. Nice. I lived in Swift Current and went to U of S. Saskers for life

@Spyder Sure, here's the link. Deoxys is actually third, between Darkrai and Pikachu. http://kotaku.com/5684142/pokmon-popularity-contest-shocker
I'm no big fan of Darkrai, never even seen him in game, but hey. Being the second most popular pokemon next to the God of that series speaks volumes.

I... I just have trouble rationalizing why a direct copy like Toon Link would be present aside from anything but saving time and money by padding.

In terms of franchises, I wasn't sure where to add Geno. Making another since he's technically third-party made sense. Though... dunno, I may end up axing him next round. He's popular... but probably not popular ENOUGH to warrant a third-party permission signoff. I still have a gut feeling there will be a Tails rush by non-nintendo fans after Smash 4 is announced though. You and I agree fundamentally that there shouldn't be two reps by a third-party, but there has been a lot of support rushing out to non-nintendo characters after Sonic and Snakes announcements.

Animal Crossing is kinda... odd. Being included Smashville-wise almost makes it seem less likely to get the full playable treatment. Slider was a bad choice though, yeah. Nook or nothing.

If the rumbling is correct and Sakurai may not be returning for another Smash, I think the illusion of the infallible 12 may just break-down. Jigglypuff kind of has 'angry grandpa status,' where the only reason they are tolerated is because theyve been there so long. I'm not sure thats the best way to run a franchise. If you can plug in significant and/or promotional material, they will probably do it. We saw it with Lucario and Roy.

 

[Llumys]

If you're ever in Saskatoon and willing to play, come post in our thread in Regional.

 

[Barbasol]

Ah unfortunately I'm done there now, moved out to BC. It's a nice city though

 

[Steam]

why is predicting lucario will be gone? he has a large fanbase (larger than mewtwo or any 5th gen right now) and is nothing close to a clone of anything... putting in victini or darkrai would be forcing it at its finest. I could see zoroark if he had taken off like lucario had...

also no krystal, keep fox, wolf, Falco the way they are. they're very different from each other.

and ness over lucas. but that's just preference for me : D

 

[Llumys]

Ah, damn, I should've seen that. Oh well.

Also, I don't think having a large fan base greatly affects a character's chance of inclusion.

 

[AetherEch0s]

i think Layton is pretty much guaranteed. His series is more than popular enough now, even more so than Fire Emblem was at the time of Melee's release. Most of the people that will play SSB4 have played or heard of a Professor Layton game, and if nothing more, im sure they have seen the a picture of him to the point that he is familiar.
The whole lack of moveset argument doesn't apply, as he has used many contraptions and even a sword in-game. Theres plenty of potential.

 

[Sonic Poke]

@Sonic Poke:

The only characters on your list that have a realistic chance of appearing in SSB4 are Megaman, Isaac, and maybe even Samurai Goroh or Lyn. Some of the others would be neat, but are unlikely. I also agree that Lucario and Toon Link have the highest chances of getting cut.

Alright, everyone seems to be posting speculation rosters, and since I like doing that anyway, I guess I'll post mine again for some of the newcomers in this thread:

SUPER MARIO
-Mario
-Luigi
-Peach
-Toad
-Bowser
-Bowser Jr.

DONKEY KONG
-Donkey Kong
-Diddy Kong/Dixie Kong
-King K. Rool

THE LEGEND OF ZELDA
-Link
-Zelda/Sheik
-Ganondorf
-Toon Link
-Toon Zelda

METROID
-Samus/Zero Suit Samus
-Ridley

YOSHI
-Yoshi

KIRBY
-Kirby
-Meta Knight
-King Dedede

STAR FOX
-Fox
-Falco
-Wolf
-Krystal

POKEMON
-Pikachu
-Jigglypuff
-Pokemon Trainer (Squirtle, Ivysaur, Charizard)
-Mewtwo
-Zoroark

F-ZERO
-Captain Falcon
-Samurai Goroh

MOTHER/EarthBound
-Ness
-Lucas

FIRE EMBLEM
-Marth
-Ike
-Roy

WARIOWARE
-Wario

PIKMIN
-Olimar

NEW SERIES CHARACTERS
-Isaac
-Ray Mk III

RETRO CHARACTERS
-Ice Climbers
-Pit
-Little Mac
-Mr. Game & Watch
-R.O.B.
-Balloon Fighter

THIRD PARTY CHARACTERS
-Snake
-Sonic
-Megaman

I enjoyed your list, the ones who do not approve are Toad, he has become a movement of Peach, Toon Link and Toon Zelda, because we have to admit that toon link is very weak, and toon zelda would follow the same path, Ridley for being too big a game would be better character for Adam Malkovich, Mewtwo, because Mewtwo is back, nothing more just another character with unique movesets continue (we all know what I'm talking about Lucario), Roy, although he was my character favorite in Melee, I'm very pessimistic about his return, and Ray Mk III to be very small.

My list again:
Daisy (Peach different movements, not Necessarily inspired by Mario sports, your Final Smash Could Be a sandstorm)
Waluigi (Mario Tennis Movements based on, ITS Final Smash would be "playing tennis alone," where he Plays characters on one side of the arena to another in sequence, Providing a series of combos)
Rockets (main villains of the Pokemon series, with an updated form of triple coating the Final Smash)
Megaman (original third character That I think has a realistic chance of appearing, not yet thought of destroying any final)
Bonk (The Child of the basement smoke here eat large chunks of his flesh, to reach a wide, and destroying all before it. It's your Final Smash)
VAATE (He Could Become a giant eye and shoot fire at the enemy)
Meowth (the mascot PKMN smoke here else use your payday harder to predict the final smash combos)
Isaac (his current bout assist trophy would b his Final Smash)
Samurai Goroh (Fire Stingray would b his Final Smash)
Lyn (Final Smash: The screen darkens, the Focus and then teleported Tues Lyn, she Delivers a single powerful attack focused on the next opponent)
Ninten (PK Techno)
Dixie Kong (not thought of a Final Smash)
K. King Roll (Something like that only much shorter: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=41J02KoKEVE)
Bowser Jr. (though I do not agree with him previously, I started to play New Super Mario Bros., and saw that he possesses a big role in the game, Sue Final smash could be like: this video go to http://www.youtube.com / watch? v = 2VIuctmMCI0 3:35 )
Adam Malkovich (thought nothing for his final smash)
Knukle Joe (Something similar to his current role as assist trophy)
Prince Fluff (Kirby's friend instead of absorbing the Standard Special Move, he could absorb the Side Special Move, still do not think of a final smash)
Medusa (a huge eye would appear at the bottom of the screen and would turn on all trophy for 15 seconds, so we could catch them and throw them into the abyss)

 

[Sonic Poke]

I liked your list, but was missing Jigglypuff, who will hardly go out, Wolf, who will be missed, Dixie, who has a lot of fans, and why add Mewtwo and Lucario take? not fair! Ridley is too big, why not Adam Malkovich? Ray is very small. And sorry if I seem noob but who is Andy?

 

[PandaBear724]

the ones who do not approve are Toad, he has become a movement of Peach,



because we have to admit that toon link is very weak





I agree with the toad part... he SHOULD NOT be a ssb character. I loled at the Tink being weak part.

 

[vVv Rapture]

Well I guess I might as well make a list, considering that's the cool thing to do as of late:

Rapture's Roster 5/30/11 – Total 48 characters

Super Mario
-Mario
-Luigi
-Peach
-Bowser
-Bowser Jr.

The Legend of Zelda
-Link
-Ganondorf (de-clone)
-Zelda/Sheik
-Toon Link
-Majora (Skull Kid)

Donkey Kong
-Donkey Kong
-Diddy Kong
-King K. Rool

Metroid
-Samus/ZSS
-Ridley
-Dark Samus

Star Fox
-Fox
-Falco (de-clone a bit)
-Wolf
-Krystal

Kirby
-Kirby
-King Dedede
-Metaknight

Pokemon
-Pikachu
-Mewtwo
-Pokemon Trainer (2nd Gen)
-Zoroark
-Deoxys

Fire Emblem
-Marth
-Ike
-Hector

Other Series
-Captain Falcon
-Samurai Goroh
-Captain Olimar
-Wario
-Ness
-Yoshi

Retro
-Ice Climbers
-ROB
-Little Mac
-Pit
-Mr. Game & Watch

New Franchises
-Isaac
-Ray MK II

Third Party
-Snake
-Sonic
-Megaman
-Phoenix Wright