[Official SSB4 Discussion] --- Nintendo announces 2 new Smash games!

[ElPanandero]

I like the second screen map idea. Perhaps the Damages could go there too, leaving only the fighters on the main super cool extra special 3d Screen

 

[Deleted member]

I'm willing to speculate on Super Smash Bros. 3DS and the next console installment (If there's any) at the same time. But I want to focus more on Super Smash Bros. 3DS for now. Starting with the character roster.

Virtual Poll: How many characters do you think will be in the game? These are the choices:

Less then 12
12-16
17-20 (1): Super Smash Bros. Fan
21-25
More then 25

You can make exact estimates if you want.

I think 16-18 is the most plausible for Super Smash Bros. 3DS, but I'll go ahead and choose 17-20.

 

[MetallicMario]

Guys. Think about it. The 3DS is way to small to be a good Smash platform. Seriously. If they make SSB4 on 3DS, "THRE DEE OLOLOLLO" or not, im not buying that. The controls would be way to weird.

Also, augustoflores, if there is no Temple, New Pork, or anything like that, all the more reason for it to suck. Plain stages? LOL.

That.
Is.
The.
Most.
Retarted
Idea.
Ever.

Also, think about this. How the heck would there be multiplayer? No more tournys.

IF they ARE making SSB4 for 3DS, (which they probably are, they have no common sense) its going to be a epic fail in the making. I would like a 3-D Smash as much as you guys would, but in terms of comfortability, the Wii is superior in every way.

 

[n88]

Guys. Think about it. The 3DS is way to small to be a good Smash platform. Seriously. If they make SSB4 on 3DS, "THRE DEE OLOLOLLO" or not, im not buying that. The controls would be way to weird.

Nintendo Game Cube Controller (Generally preferred control scheme among Smashers):

-3 Shoulder Buttons (Two of which perform the same function)
-4 Face Buttons (Two of which perform the same function)
-Analog
-D-Pad
-C-Stick (Which can easily be mapped to Touch Screen)

3DS:

-2 Shoulder Buttons
-4 Face Buttons
-Analog
-D-Pad

What, exactly, would be so different as to merit not buying the game? The 3DS really has all the buttons it needs to control properly. I agree that just because it's 3D doesn't make it good, but I seriously doubt that the 3DS would have problems handling Smash.

 

[MetallicMario]

Two words: Screen Size. Its hard to see the entire map of Temple with a screen not even the size of my hand, no?

Lack of C-Stick makes me even more sad. I use that thing heavely. It juust would not work with me.

 

[Deleted member]

A fail thread just got made called "dbz". Here's the person who made it with the first post:

I'm trying to see goku and vegeta in the next smash game

LOLOLOLOL!

 

[ChronoBound]

Some interesting commentary about Toon Link's future in the Zelda series:

IGN: With two Zelda games now in the works -- Skyward Sword and Ocarina of Time 3D, and both of them using an older, more realistic Link -- do you think we've seen a brief retirement of the Toon Link character? Or will we see Toon Link again pretty soon?

Aonuma: We haven't made a specific determination about what's going to happen with Toon Link. As we talked about earlier, I think the toon-shading style worked really well with The Wind Waker because it was a story of a young Link. So if we did something again with a Link at that age, maybe we'd re-use it. Who knows? If we're going forward, looking to adapt Link to a new piece of hardware, maybe we'd want to bring him to life again with the technology that'd be available then. I can't say -- I don't even want to say that he's retired. I just don't know.

 

[Pieman0920]

Two words: Screen Size. Its hard to see the entire map of Temple with a screen not even the size of my hand, no?

Lack of C-Stick makes me even more sad. I use that thing heavely. It juust would not work with me.

The screen size probably wouldn't be a real issue at all, especially if the camera focuses on the player more than trying to fit in all of the other characters.

And the lack of a c-stick is just something you'd have to get used to. I for one never use the c-stick, and can play Smash fine. Its not like you're even going to have a c-stick in Smash 4 for another console anyways, since its not likely that Smash 4 will use a GCN controller.

 

[Maripu]

A handheld Smash sounds pretty awful to me actually. It's much harder to have control of all of the buttons/sticks/pads on a handheld, plus you couldn't play local multiplayer unless you and your friends all had your 3DS + Smash with you at the time. Furthermore, really nearly all successful handheld games are either RPGs/sims (due to slower gameplay) or platformers. There are some exceptions but I really think trying to fight on a small screen would be a total mess.

 

[MetallicMario]

Maripu.

You just conveyed what im trying to say, in a much better way.

 

[libertyernie]

not like you're even going to have a c-stick in Smash 4 for another console anyways, since its not likely that Smash 4 will use a GCN controller.

I'd expect it to be compatible with the Classic Controller, and it's right analog stick does the same thing.

 

[Starphoenix]

A handheld Smash sounds pretty awful to me actually. It's much harder to have control of all of the buttons/sticks/pads on a handheld, plus you couldn't play local multiplayer unless you and your friends all had your 3DS + Smash with you at the time. Furthermore, really nearly all successful handheld games are either RPGs/sims (due to slower gameplay) or platformers. There are some exceptions but I really think trying to fight on a small screen would be a total mess.

Obviously Capcom does not agree as they are porting SSIV to the 3DS. From owning a PSP and playing Power Stone and Street Fighter, I can tell you from experience those games are not a problem on a portable system (at least for me anyways).

 

[Big-Cat]

Obviously Capcom does not agree as they are porting SSIV to the 3DS. From owning a PSP and playing Power Stone and Street Fighter, I can tell you from experience those games are not a problem on a portable system (at least for me anyways).

I'm still curious as to how the PPP and KKK buttons will work as you need them for ultra combos.

I'm still afraid we're going to run into screen size issues due to the K.O. method of this game. A New Pork City sized stage would be a nightmare on a small screen, even if there were two of them.

 

[Starphoenix]

I'm still curious as to how the PPP and KKK buttons will work as you need them for ultra combos.

I'm still afraid we're going to run into screen size issues due to the K.O. method of this game. A New Pork City sized stage would be a nightmare on a small screen, even if there were two of them.

Beats me but right now I'm just excited to even see a Street Fighter game grace a Nintendo console!

As for the other statement that is why I said those type of stages would not be present. Really it is not that big of a deal. That is not to say every stage has to become some sort of Battlefield clone, but the measurements can be constrained to being roughly the same size for stages as a whole. Plus you have to remember the top screen is wider, so in some strange way the 3DS screen could actually benefit the camera if they develop it correctly as far as stage construction is concerned.

 

[Maripu]

Obviously Capcom does not agree as they are porting SSIV to the 3DS. From owning a PSP and playing Power Stone and Street Fighter, I can tell you from experience those games are not a problem on a portable system (at least for me anyways).

Those are two completely different kinds of fighting games though. Smash pretty much requires you to be in control of every single button at any given moment. Imagine having to jam those sticky R/L keys in the back.

 

[n88]

A handheld Smash sounds pretty awful to me actually. It's much harder to have control of all of the buttons/sticks/pads on a handheld, plus you couldn't play local multiplayer unless you and your friends all had your 3DS + Smash with you at the time. Furthermore, really nearly all successful handheld games are either RPGs/sims (due to slower gameplay) or platformers. There are some exceptions but I really think trying to fight on a small screen would be a total mess.

Why are the controls a problem? 3DS is better equipped to handle it than the Wii. Also, we don't know what the local multi-player set-up would be. There are plenty of games for DS that allow for local multiplayer with a single game. And who cares what's been successful in the past? Nintendo has demonstrated over and over that they're the innovators in this industry.

I'm still afraid we're going to run into screen size issues due to the K.O. method of this game. A New Pork City sized stage would be a nightmare on a small screen, even if there were two of them.

There's nothing compelling developers to make New Pork City-sized stages. I would not mind having to play on slightly smaller stages if the trade-off was a new, portable iteration of Smash. But if they did decide to use those massive stages, they could actually put the 3D technology to good use here, and have the characters pop out of the background a little, so as to make them easier to see. Or maybe they could make one screen a closer-up view of your character, with the other screen works just like the normal Smash screen (Zooms in and out so as to display all opponents). I think the guys at Nintendo know what they're doing, and the 3DS is more than capable of handling Smash.

 

[Arcadenik]

I wouldn't be surprised if Smash 3DS is actually N64 Smash, given how many N64 games are given the 3DS treatment. That solves the problem with New Porky City-sized stages because they don't exist in SSB64 but the fans will BAWWW because it is not SSB4 with new characters and lulz ensues.

 

[BBQTV]

why is this still going on? this is not going to happen.these are people who aren't putting in ridley because he's to big (of course he doesn't need to get in anyway) you think their would even try to do this.

 

[Arcadenik]

Who were talking about Ridley? They were talking about screen size issues.

 

[BBQTV]

im saying these people refused to but a character in a game because of size issues.so you think their gonna make a portable smash where your gonna havw size issues?

 

[Arcadenik]

Ahh, got it. I understand now. Personally, I think SSB64 3DS is the way to go whether I like it or not.

 

[BBQTV]

they didn't anything that would hint to it right? isn't the whole thing fan speculation

 

[augustoflores]

Phoenix Down!!

Guys. Think about it. The 3DS is way to small to be a good Smash platform. Seriously. If they make SSB4 on 3DS, "THRE DEE OLOLOLLO" or not, im not buying that. The controls would be way to weird.

Also, augustoflores, if there is no Temple, New Pork, or anything like that, all the more reason for it to suck. Plain stages? LOL.

That.
Is.
The.
Most.
Retarted
Idea.
Ever.

Also, think about this. How the heck would there be multiplayer? No more tournys.

IF they ARE making SSB4 for 3DS, (which they probably are, they have no common sense) its going to be a epic fail in the making. I would like a 3-D Smash as much as you guys would, but in terms of comfortability, the Wii is superior in every way.

you stupid deluded, douche. what kind of person are you. have you no imagination? are you fixated on what has been already served? have you even held the 3DS and seen how amazing it is compared to the flatness that is your computer screen (as in streaming E3 live on computers)? there is no way to completely support an image of 3D caliber on a 2D screen.

Think, would the Successor to SSB3 actually be on a handheld console (ie SSB4)? SSB3DS is not what we consider SSB4, the SSB4 in our futures is on a home console (regardless of the fact that there is no concrete evidence). I am going to have to pull both you and Maripu out of your little boxes and teach you how the world works! (not really, its just for fun typing XD)
In a world like what we live in, anything can be done. if you give me an example to counter somehow, i can easily say that... *sigh* those developers did it wrong. Oh my gawd, it wouldn't work, THEY will make it work, dumb_***! smash isn't centered on melee; ssb64 wasn't playing like melee, and brawl also didn't play like melee (you can just scramble that to your preferred smash game, i just said melee because you speak like a melee gamer) oh, and SSB4 wouldn't play like melee or SSB3DS.
personally, i would consider SSB3DS as multiple things that it could do to the series:
1. its a side portion of the series so we can smash on the go.
2. its a way to experiment with characters not seen playable in the series yet like Isaac, and maybe Lyndis, and of course since 3ds is where Kid Icarus: Rising is at, then its where Palutena and Medusa are to hone there skills... right along side 1 third party. (yeah, i said 1)
there were multiple reasons more but i wouldn't want to burn out.

no more tourneys? tourney on your Brawl, idiot! or better yet, your melee! its a game for fun as is melee and brawl, we just complicate it by being savage, technique-happy gamers.
"the Wii is superior in every way." ... moron, thats all i can say here.

I oughta "stick my foot up your ***" for actually thinking, at all! (quotation marks made possible by Red Foreman from That 70's Show)
oh, and thank you for reviving my inner fire, I thought I lost it somewhere in my art... dumb_***!

oh and to all of you who actually read this flame, err, sorry i wasn't this passionate before, the longer i hold it back, the longer it might make it to get back to normal. (thanks alot kid icarus)

 

[Starphoenix]

Those are two completely different kinds of fighting games though. Smash pretty much requires you to be in control of every single button at any given moment. Imagine having to jam those sticky R/L keys in the back.

My response was to the statement that Smash could not control well on a portable system. To which I stated what I did.

My primary example is not actually Street Fighter but Power Stone.

 

[Maripu]

Why are the controls a problem? 3DS is better equipped to handle it than the Wii. Also, we don't know what the local multi-player set-up would be. There are plenty of games for DS that allow for local multiplayer with a single game. And who cares what's been successful in the past? Nintendo has demonstrated over and over that they're the innovators in this industry.

Um, no, the 3DS is definitely not better equipped to handle it than the Wii. The Wii has 4 different controller inputs (though only 2 are really usable and only 1 can be used in tournaments), controllers that are better equipped for button mashing, variable screen sizes that are generally many times larger than the 3DS (however big the TV is), etc.

And I think it's pretty important what's been successful in the past. Besides, you didn't see a Smash DS or Smash GBA, so why on earth would Smash try to take it to the handheld when their expertise is clearly console games?

And half of the fun of Smash is gathering around a big TV screen so that even spectators feel involved. A Smash 3DS would likely cause tournaments to suck rather badly. After all, if I were playing on a handheld I wouldn't want someone standing right behind me.

 

[Big-Cat]

And I think it's pretty important what's been successful in the past. Besides, you didn't see a Smash DS or Smash GBA, so why on earth would Smash try to take it to the handheld when their expertise is clearly console games?

The reason we didn't see a SSB on those platforms because of a lack of an analog stick. Trying to play on those platforms even remotely seriously would be rather difficult. The only thing the 3DS doesn't have compared to the GC controller is the C-Stick which I find debateable to use anyway. In comparison to the CC Pro, it's missing two shoulder buttons we'd probably never use as we just need Normals, Specials, Jump, Shield, and Taunt.

 

[BBQTV]

c stick is very important. now taunt are debatable because you dont need them to play the game. but nintendo isn't going to make this so it doesn't matter. what im hopping for is that in ssb4 is that nintendo caters to the fans

 

[ToiseOfChoice]

Um, no, the 3DS is definitely not better equipped to handle it than the Wii. The Wii has 4 different controller inputs (though only 2 are really usable and only 1 can be used in tournaments), controllers that are better equipped for button mashing, variable screen sizes that are generally many times larger than the 3DS (however big the TV is), etc.

And I think it's pretty important what's been successful in the past. Besides, you didn't see a Smash DS or Smash GBA, so why on earth would Smash try to take it to the handheld when their expertise is clearly console games?

And half of the fun of Smash is gathering around a big TV screen so that even spectators feel involved. A Smash 3DS would likely cause tournaments to suck rather badly. After all, if I were playing on a handheld I wouldn't want someone standing right behind me.

1. Competetive play means **** in terms of any Smash's production or success.

2. The 3DS can make for an amazing Smash game. The slide pad is awesome, the system can handle a Melee-level game, and the small screen is a non-issue (people here seem to have forgotten what "perspective" means). If it's good enough for Street Fighter, it's good enough for Smash Bros.

3. There's a lot of demand for a handheld Smash. Why not give it a try?

 

[Maripu]

1. Competetive play means **** in terms of any Smash's production or success.

2. The 3DS can make for an amazing Smash game. The slide pad is awesome, the system can handle a Melee-level game, and the small screen is a non-issue (people here seem to have forgotten what "perspective" means). If it's good enough for Street Fighter, it's good enough for Smash Bros.

3. There's a lot of demand for a handheld Smash. Why not give it a try?

1. That's pretty much true. I'm arguing why a Smash handheld would suck, not necessarily why they wouldn't make one.

2. Since you brought it up, why would you want the touch screen utilized? We'd probably have to poke the opponent with the stylus to punch them.

3. There is?

 

[ToiseOfChoice]

1. You're arguing based on an extremely niche perspective so I'm having a hard time sympathizing. Sorry.

2. I didn't say touch screen. Slide pad is the analog stick equivalent.

3. Yes, where have you been?

 

[Big-Cat]

I'm starting to like the idea of a SSB 3DS being an experimental side series. Try out mechanics, characters, modes, or whatever and see what the people like or don't like.

I've thought about it some more and maybe the screen size won't be that big of a deal, but I think we won't be seeing large stages which I'm fine with as the only large stage I've ever liked was Temple.

 

[Maripu]

1. You're arguing based on an extremely niche perspective so I'm having a hard time sympathizing. Sorry.

2. I didn't say touch screen. Slide pad is the analog stick equivalent.

3. Yes, where have you been?

1. You're right, I'm the only person who enjoys battles with spectators. Poor me.

2. Whoops, sorry, I just don't know what a "slide pad" is. I assumed touch screen because it resembles a mouse slide pad a little bit more than an analog stick (which is not shaped like a pad, for the record).

3. There is demand for a new Smash, not necessarily a handheld one. People just assume that because the 3DS is coming out that the theoretical new Smash has to be on the 3DS. This isn't the case.

 

[ElPanandero]

Toise, while I do not want a Handheld Smash, I am wondering, Is there a greater demand for handheld or console for a new smash? Just curious I know you like concrete evidence, you'd probably have a better idea than anyone else here.

I don't mind a handheld smash, as long as the console series isn't ignored.

 

[Pieman0920]

From what I've seen on other forums, such as Gamefaqs, people don't seem to be okay with a Smash 4 in the next year or so, but are perfectly fine with a portable Smash. Honeslty it seems like a very logical step for the series, and as Kuma said, it can be a lot more experimental. You could have items assigned to the touch screen to bring up, or use the touch screen to bring in assist characters, and see how people react to things like that.

The screen size really isn't an issue either, and as I suggested before, a map on the bottom screen could be used to give a general feel for what the stage looks like, and where all the opponents are (and possibly item location too) while the top screen can be more focused on the player's character, and not try to fit in the other three pottential opponents. The slider could be used for movement, and the d-pad below it could be used for a c-stick type function if need be.

 

[Big-Cat]

I'm still not fond of a JSS setup for the map. You could have a difficult time dealing with projectiles. I'm not sure how having items available on the touch screen would work. This game has a pace not suitable for this kind of thing. It'd be great for FPS games, but I think it would just be difficult in the heat of battle. You would be switching from your attack buttons to the stylus.

 

[n88]

Um, no, the 3DS is definitely not better equipped to handle it than the Wii. The Wii has 4 different controller inputs (though only 2 are really usable and only 1 can be used in tournaments), controllers that are better equipped for button mashing, variable screen sizes that are generally many times larger than the 3DS (however big the TV is), etc.

And I think it's pretty important what's been successful in the past. Besides, you didn't see a Smash DS or Smash GBA, so why on earth would Smash try to take it to the handheld when their expertise is clearly console games?

And half of the fun of Smash is gathering around a big TV screen so that even spectators feel involved. A Smash 3DS would likely cause tournaments to suck rather badly. After all, if I were playing on a handheld I wouldn't want someone standing right behind me.

1. D'oh. I meant to say that the 3DS is better equipped to handle it than the Wiimote (Which is actually a usable control scheme, btw). My bad.

2. Well, keep in mind that Paper Mario is coming to a handheld (A first in for the series), so Nintendo may be considering more of its traditional console games for the 3DS. Previously, I don't think justice could have been done to a portable Smash, but the 3DS seems to be a big step forward in terms of portable power. Plus, there's no way of knowing where the developers' expertise really lies. I believe Melee and Brawl were developed by different groups, no? We could just as easily see a whole new group of devs (Although Sakurai would probably still be heading it) take charge.

3. Yes the screen is going to be smaller on a 3DS, but it's also going to be quite a bit closer to your face, no? Didn't think people cared that much about spectating, anyway. Most of the people I know IRL who play Smash are either actually playing or they're not really interested. And tourneys don't really matter all that much, like Toise says.


Mind you, I'm not trying to convince people that SSB 3DS is a certainty, or would be better than an SSB for Wii, or anything like that. My stance is purely that an SSB 3DS could be created without half the problems some people seem to think it would have.

 

[BBQTV]

who in their right mind uses a wii mote!?

 

[Maripu]

1. D'oh. I meant to say that the 3DS is better equipped to handle it than the Wiimote (Which is actually a usable control scheme, btw). My bad.

2. Well, keep in mind that Paper Mario is coming to a handheld (A first in for the series), so Nintendo may be considering more of its traditional console games for the 3DS. Previously, I don't think justice could have been done to a portable Smash, but the 3DS seems to be a big step forward in terms of portable power. Plus, there's no way of knowing where the developers' expertise really lies. I believe Melee and Brawl were developed by different groups, no? We could just as easily see a whole new group of devs (Although Sakurai would probably still be heading it) take charge.

3. Yes the screen is going to be smaller on a 3DS, but it's also going to be quite a bit closer to your face, no? Didn't think people cared that much about spectating, anyway. Most of the people I know IRL who play Smash are either actually playing or they're not really interested. And tourneys don't really matter all that much, like Toise says.


Mind you, I'm not trying to convince people that SSB 3DS is a certainty, or would be better than an SSB for Wii, or anything like that. My stance is purely that an SSB 3DS could be created without half the problems some people seem to think it would have.

2. Paper Mario is a platformer/RPG, though, and not nearly as fast-paced as Smash. Paper Mario is being developed for the 3DS because itactually makes more sense to play it on a smaller screen.

3. Tourneys don't matter to the game devs, but I would think they'd matter to the players.

 

[Pieman0920]

I'm still not fond of a JSS setup for the map. You could have a difficult time dealing with projectiles. I'm not sure how having items available on the touch screen would work. This game has a pace not suitable for this kind of thing. It'd be great for FPS games, but I think it would just be difficult in the heat of battle. You would be switching from your attack buttons to the stylus.

What exactly do yous ee as a problem for the projectiles? That you couldn't see them coming from an opponent pottentially? I'd assume that given the map and/or arrows that would indicate where the opponent is, you'd know their general position well enough. You also have to take in to consideration that they likely couldn't see you if you can't see them.

Also with the item or assist calling thing, I'd say that the button would be big enough that you could just tap the screen, instead of breaking out a stylus.

 

[augustoflores]

aww.. jeez. it is as if i said nothing!!! i guess im not respected enough yet.

well in the end, since everyone pretty much said everything i said and spread it amongst your own comments, speaking as if it was your own thoughts (which they most likely were, im just saying that i said all that in my rant).

1. its a side portion of the series so we can smash on the go.
2. its a way to experiment with characters not seen playable in the series yet

you see?! what kuma said on experimenting and then pieman said..."like kuma said, experimenting"
(feels like i don't exist. feels like im fading, again)

the whole c stick thing... do you want to know who cares? people who played melee or brawl, not ssb64 (the same principle goes with wavedashing as it isn't present in brawl or ssb64) my point is that SSB3DS would and/or should be played differently in comparison to the rest of the series, so anything that relates to the c stick should be null and void. if you really want the c stick, play melee or brawl. i use the c stick constantly, you don't see me complaining do you?
Keep an open mind, stop thinking about the negatives, man. (i don't want to have to gun you down with strong insight (that phrase is debatable since your point of view is obscured) the person I refer to is anyone who is opposing me right now or is at odds with ssb3DS possibility.)