[Official SSB4 Discussion] --- Nintendo announces 2 new Smash games!

[ElPanandero]

I see where you're coming from. Still, it would be a good addition as people have been wanting this/him using his sword for quite some time. It's not like it's something rarely brought up like the PK moves for Ness and Lucas, although that one might have to do with the small MOTHER fanbase in the West..

I suppose you have a point, but I honestly think people would care more if it was Issac or Sword Ganon being created. The problem is, people don't always look at things logically and don't realize revamping Ganon would take time and effort that can be spent elsewhere on things far more important than making Wizard-Ike.

 

[Big-Cat]

And that's where development priority comes in. If they can set aside time for Ganondorf and there aren't plans for other new characters, this should happen. After that, they can do all the clones that make sense for all I care.

Anyway, I would say that it probably takes more time to make a new character than making a new moveset for Ganondorf. With making a new character, you have to take into account the physical properties such as size and running speed into account. Then there's making the model for the character which probably takes significant time.

 

[Serph]

I don't think it's necessary to totally reinvent Ganondorf. It's possible to further differentiate him from Falcon without messing up his playstyle, as he has half a dozen unique attacks to his name already. They simply need to go that extra mile.

No Ganondorf player wants to see the back of things like uair, dair, dtilt and Flame Choke anyway. I'm also hoping they give ftilt a range boost and lag reduction next time around. The kick should be something to be feared.

 

[Soulwithlife]

I haven't played melee myself, but I'm not sure why everyone is pissed off at brawl?
Sure, there are a few things which could have been better:
1. Voice acting for Subspace Emmisary.
2. No tripping.
3. No (more) clones.
Thats about it.
As for ideas for the next game...hm...
1. Fix issues above.
2. Include all characters that have been in brawl, melee and smash 64.
I don't really have that many ideas. As for characters, I couldn't care less. As long as the ones we have had in brawl melee and 64 stay and theres some new ones (from new franchises maybe?) I'm satisfied.

 

[n88]

Anyway, ye ole poll is getting a bit stagnant again. I'm currently open to suggestions as to where to advertise for it. The standings haven't changed too much, but I figured I'd post it again anyway, seeing as I have nothing better to do (And to verify the truth of my diagram )

(54)Mega Man
(51)Mewtwo
(46)Isaac or GS3 Protagonist
(46)Ridley
(45)King K.Rool
(42)Bowser Jr.
(42)Little Mac
(39)Krystal

(34)Roy
(34)Vaati
(32)Midna
(32)Geno
(31)Toon Zelda/Tetra
(31)Another Sonic Character

(29)Black Shadow
(27)Starfy
(27)Lyn
(26)Dixie Kong
(24)Dark Samus
(24)Waluigi
(24)Ray Mk III
(24)Toad

(22)Kamek
(21)Meowth
(20)Deoxys
(20)Samurai Goroh
(19)Black Mage
(19)Black Knight
(19)Lip
(18)Lloyd Irving
(18)Captain Syrup

(17)Saki
(17)Claus
(16)Smash OC
(16)Tingle
(15)Mach Rider
(15)Plusle & Minun
(14)Daisy
(13)Sukapon
(12)A SC Character
(12)Pac-Man

(11)Rosalina
(11)Andy
(11)Grey Fox
(10)Chocobo
(10)Takamaru
(10)Baby Mario
(10)Porky
(10)Chibi-Robo
(10)Captain Rainbow

(9)Mona
(9)Duck Hunt Dog
(8)Jeff
(7)Ninten
(6)Jody Summer
(4)Louie

 

[ElPanandero]

I don't think it's necessary to totally reinvent Ganondorf. It's possible to further differentiate him from Falcon without messing up his playstyle, as he has half a dozen unique attacks to his name already. They simply need to go that extra mile.

No Ganondorf player wants to see the back of things like uair, dair, dtilt and Flame Choke anyway. I'm also hoping they give ftilt a range boost and lag reduction next time around. The kick should be something to be feared.

Agree'd.

I don't see why people see him as a clone, mainly because plays so differently from falcon.

 

[lordvaati]

^yeah. I mean come on-him not having a sword isn't THAT big a bloody deal.

I haven't played melee myself, but I'm not sure why everyone is pissed off at brawl?
Sure, there are a few things which could have been better:
1. Voice acting for Subspace Emmisary.
2. No tripping.
3. No (more) clones.
Thats about it.
As for ideas for the next game...hm...
1. Fix issues above.
2. Include all characters that have been in brawl, melee and smash 64.
I don't really have that many ideas. As for characters, I couldn't care less. As long as the ones we have had in brawl melee and 64 stay and theres some new ones (from new franchises maybe?) I'm satisfied.

1......nahhh. Just doen't work with Nintendo verse-plus I bet people would just rant about the voices next.

2.they should make it like the ledgae slip in Melee-because that wasn't random.

3.the fact that there were as few clones in Brawl is improvement in itself.

next game:
1. see above
2. sometimes, characters leave-it's a sad fact. M2 would be cool to return, but some-namely Dr. Mario and Pichu- might not return as playable forms, anyway.

 

[Big-Cat]

I haven't played melee myself, but I'm not sure why everyone is pissed off at brawl?
Sure, there are a few things which could have been better:
1. Voice acting for Subspace Emmisary.
2. No tripping.
3. No (more) clones.
Thats about it.
As for ideas for the next game...hm...
1. Fix issues above.
2. Include all characters that have been in brawl, melee and smash 64.
I don't really have that many ideas. As for characters, I couldn't care less. As long as the ones we have had in brawl melee and 64 stay and theres some new ones (from new franchises maybe?) I'm satisfied.

Play Melee and you'll find out why a lot of people were/are pissed at Brawl.

I was playing Brawl about two weeks at this sorry tournament and I just noticed that I have always had a Melee mentality when playing Brawl, and I never realized it until now.

 

[Pieman0920]

Hmm, I'm sort of surprised that there are people who have never played Melee here....especially since the Wii can play all three games. I mean I guess I can understand 64 a bit, but really now, people come here who never played Melee? So strange to me. Maybe we're all getting older. :V

Anyways, voice acting isn't needed. I mean its really not.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

Anyways, voice acting isn't needed. I mean its really not.

Actual voice acting?

No. Most nintendo characters are silent anyways and the ones who already aren't have enough treatment. Maybe more original to the voices (lol, wolf) but I don't think it needs to go far in Smash 4.

...I missed a bit it seems.

 

[augustoflores]

what about text boxes? "link with a text box? **** off, gust!!" what about a narrator? nah that'll be too anoying. im thinking of an omnipotent personnel appropriately above Tabuu, not good and not bad... it'll sound too much like a saturday mornng cartoon... nevermind, carry on.

 

[ToiseOfChoice]

There's nothing wrong with criticizing my ideas. In fact, I appreciate any criticism. It should help once I get to my Videogame Design class when I'm a senior.

Still, I feel that if you're to be going about critiquing ideas, you should present your own ideas be it that they are additions, removals, returns, or expansions that enhance the overall gameplay experience. It makes for a more enjoyable discussion instead of one person presenting one thing and expecting reception and doing this ad infinitum.

Remember the discussions we had when you or I presented Sirlin articles? Those are the kind of discussions I'd like to have.

Okay, well to be honest I'm not really interested in talking about adjustments to old characters, and I really dislike bigger changes that you tend to suggest, but I'll throw out something I guess.


I honestly think every character that has appeared in Smash is generally acceptable in their current form (minus the cut Melee clones who would need some touch-ups if they ever returned). Little tweaks like FLUDD are fine, but not having three or so special moves changed completely.

I don't really care if Ganon uses a sword, uses a trident, uses his bare hands, shoots energy balls, or any of that. I don't care if the Mother kids use their friends' stuff. I don't care if Wario plays nothing like he should (okay that's a lie, Brawl Wario bothers me but I can deal with it). Iit's not entirely faithful to the sources, but it's not really that big of a deal. I'd rather not see what's here be mucked with for the sake of accuracy.

Now the only exception to this would be if Ganondorf's current moveset was the only factor in excluding Black Shadow (as in "well Black Shadow would be a perfect addition, but because he's too similar to Ganon we dropped him"). I'd be really annoyed if one character's made-up moveset somehow prevented another from appearing, especially when the made-up moveset didn't need to be there in the first place.


@voices/text: no way, unless they had the F-Zero X announcer "narrating" or something.

 

[Big-Cat]

I guess I went too far on the MOTHER changes. Still, I'd like to see Ness have an actual magnet property and PK Teleport used. Ever since Mewtwo came in Melee, I found it strange that Ness never used PK Teleport in battle. As for Lucas, I guess he's fine as he is, just make PK Freeze more useful and change their Final Smashes to PK Rockin and PK Love for Ness and Lucas. I think Sakurai just dropped the ball on that.

Anyway, I wouldn't call Mario getting FLUDD to be a minor change. Giving Link the ability to aim his arrows 45 or -45 degrees, Samus the ability to feint projectiles, or making Yoshi's tongue moves tether moves would be minor changes.. FLUDD is big change considering that one of his specials is swapped out for a brand new one. Yes, the Mario Tornado is now is DAir, but the old move is gone. Then again, was that move ever useful (serious question)?

Speaking of things that don't make sense, was anyone surprised to see Link's Infinite Stab move taken out in Brawl? I would've figured it would have stayed considering they made executing the move easier.

 

[Serph]

Speaking of Mario, does anyone else think he should be able to glide with his cape? Either at the end of his super jump punch, by holding down the button after side B or holding a jump.

Additionally, his Luma partner from Galaxy should appear during his down air. Just a minor cosmetic change.

 

[ElPanandero]

i think Giving Mario gLiding would be a tricky situation. Unless I am mistaken, isn't his recovery already beastly, and he's among the best gimp characters?

 

[augustoflores]

NO!! it is a perfect idea! i believe i mentioned it somewhere, but it shouldn't happen after superjump, thats ********, it should happen when you hold his cape down. mario is a low tier character and he deserves to get buffed for being the poster boy... don't say no, please, i am tired of seeing metaknight'v'falco'v'falco'v'snake in tournaments, almost no pros play as mario, it sucks.
people play as ryu, right? cause hes cool and his moves are memorable and hes strong.

 

[lordvaati]

i think Giving Mario gLiding would be a tricky situation. Unless I am mistaken, isn't his recovery already beastly, and he's among the best gimp characters?

there are Mario mains who would kill to have a beastly recovery with him. (myself included.)

 

[Big-Cat]

Speaking of Mario, does anyone else think he should be able to glide with his cape? Either at the end of his super jump punch, by holding down the button after side B or holding a jump.

Additionally, his Luma partner from Galaxy should appear during his down air. Just a minor cosmetic change.

When I suggested EX moves a while back, my idea for an EX Super Jump Punch involved having that gliding ability.

Although, I think it would just be better if he had the gliding ability by holding the jump button.

According to the Smash Wiki, he has pretty poor recovery so outside of more recovery in his move, this would help his recovery.

Mario's supposed to be, well, the Mario of this game, the jack of all trades. Although, we don't him too strong either. Look what happened to Ryu in SFIV.

 

[Starphoenix]

I'm beginning now, The Last Story protagonist for SSB4!

 

[lordvaati]

When I suggested EX moves a while back, my idea for an EX Super Jump Punch involved having that gliding ability.

Although, I think it would just be better if he had the gliding ability by holding the jump button.

According to the Smash Wiki, he has pretty poor recovery so outside of more recovery in his move, this would help his recovery.

Mario's supposed to be, well, the Mario of this game, the jack of all trades. Although, we don't him too strong either. Look what happened to Ryu in SFIV.

actually, I thought of something similar, but with Luigi (his Flutter jump from SMB2 and SMW).

 

[SmashChu]

I'm beginning now, The Last Story protagonist for SSB4!

Naw, The Last Story does not look that interesting, I'd rather see characters and locations from Xenoblade.

 

[Big-Cat]

Well, it's pretty early to see just how interesting these games are. We'll likely see trailers at E3 in a few months. According to Wiki, The Last Story is co-developed by Nintendo. Glad to see Nintendo's doing more projects with other developers. Should definitely help with third party relationships.

Still, I wouldn't be surprised to see characters from Baten Kaitos and/or Xenoblade.

BTW, I take it that the lead protagonist is the girl for The Last Story, right? I'm also curious as to what would happen in the event that she's wanted for SSB4. Would she be susceptible to the Geno issue?

 

[ElPanandero]

Again, correct me if I am mistaken, but
Mario is a gimp character, which entails leaving the stage to hit opponents while they are off stage until they die, then returning. IIRC he has excellent skills for this, which is offset by his inability to go too far out to gimp then recovering. By giving him the glide, it would make him too powerful, I believe...Though I'm sure Pieman can find a fundamental flaw in my logic

 

[Big-Cat]

Again, correct me if I am mistaken, but
Mario is a gimp character, which entails leaving the stage to hit opponents while they are off stage until they die, then returning. IIRC he has excellent skills for this, which is offset by his inability to go too far out to gimp then recovering. By giving him the glide, it would make him too powerful, I believe...Though I'm sure Pieman can find a fundamental flaw in my logic

Well, he wasn't a gimp character for the first two games. He was simply the all-around character, as he should be.

I don't think it would make him to good for edge-guarding. If anything, keep his Super Jump Punch as it is and he would just not be so poor on recovery. The move already has more vertical recovery than horizontal. The cape would give him that needed horizontal recovery he needs as a edge-guarder.

Alternatively, put more hitstun (well in general for all moves) on his fireball could make a difference.

 

[Starphoenix]

Naw, The Last Story does not look that interesting, I'd rather see characters and locations from Xenoblade.

Funny, that's how I feel about Xenoblade. All I need is a TLS trailer.

@Kuma:

Last Story is a Nintendo IP being developed by Mistwalker. The main hero is the guy on the right.

 

[Big-Cat]

Okay then, we may get both a Xenoblade character and a Last Story character. Still, the girl seems interesting, nothing's stopping from it getting two characters, but let's wait and see.

 

[Pieman0920]

It does seem that Nintendo has been producing a bunch of new IPs recently. Its actually a bit difficult to keep track of. Then again, the only ones that probably have any real chance are the ones on the Wii or possibly the ones for the DS that get multiple/popular enough games.

 

[CaptainOlimar123]

Does anyone else think there should be DLC For SSB4?

 

[SmashChu]

Well, it's pretty early to see just how interesting these games are. We'll likely see trailers at E3 in a few months. According to Wiki, The Last Story is co-developed by Nintendo. Glad to see Nintendo's doing more projects with other developers. Should definitely help with third party relationships.

There are a lot more videos of Xenoblade's stuff. Check the website or online.

Still, I wouldn't be surprised to see characters from Baten Kaitos and/or Xenoblade.

Baten Kaiton is owned by Namco. The only involvement Nintendo had was they published the prequel in the west.

BTW, I take it that the lead protagonist is the girl for The Last Story, right? I'm also curious as to what would happen in the event that she's wanted for SSB4. Would she be susceptible to the Geno issue?

Here are the lead characters

The only way it would happen is on who holds the rights to the game. Usually, Nintendo published games have Nintendo having the rights. Most likely this will be the same.

Funny, that's how I feel about Xenoblade. All I need is a TLS trailer.

Really? The reason I'm apathetic to it is because it's not much different then any other RPG I've seen. It's all too same old. Xenoblade has some really cool heights. I guess it could work like Temple.

 

[Big-Cat]

Baten Kaiton is owned by Namco. The only involvement Nintendo had was they published the prequel in the west.

Weren't the games made by Monolith Soft?

Here are the lead characters

They look interesting. it looks like though the girl will have the larger role then the guy considering that she's on the game logo. Then again, so was Yuna on Final Fantasy X. I guess it'll depend on who the game starts with.

Really? The reason I'm apathetic to it is because it's not much different then any other RPG I've seen. It's all too same old. Xenoblade has some really cool heights. I guess it could work like Temple.

That may be on purpose. For all we know, this game could very well be a deconstruction of the JRPG but hopefully without pulling an Evangelion on us.


As for DLC, what with SSFIV coming out and their plans for after the game, I'm starting to reconsider that DLC wouldn't be bad. Now comes the question of how big and how often the DLC is without dividing the player base.

 

[Shorts]

....Pkmn versions White and black annonced.....

 

[Big-Cat]

Man, there's a lot RPG stuff for me lately. I've been playing Final Fantasy XIII and Earthbound with a little MOTHER 3. Then there's this Xenoblade and The Last Story stuff. Now, we have Pokemon Black and White.

 

[Cyn]

....Pkmn versions White and black anounced.....

..............neat.

 

[Shorts]

Man, there's a lot RPG stuff for me lately. I've been playing Final Fantasy XIII and Earthbound with a little MOTHER 3. Then there's this Xenoblade and The Last Story stuff. Now, we have Pokemon Black and White.

Just wait, once the majority of smash boards finds out, it'll be mewtwo this, and Zoruke(sp?) that. Hehe, and Pokemon talk always gets people fired up and aggrivated! ^.^
Im sure that the pkmn picked for SSB4 will be ones we dont even know about yet. Black and White are supposed to be ground-breaking, soo we dont even fully know how the whole battling aspect is gonna work. For all we know we could be able to have guns equipped to our pkmn! (terrible idea, btw)

 

[Starphoenix]

Really? The reason I'm apathetic to it is because it's not much different then any other RPG I've seen. It's all too same old. Xenoblade has some really cool heights. I guess it could work like Temple.

To each his own. Hopefully both games do well enough that we can even see any content from either of them.

They look interesting. it looks like though the girl will have the larger role then the guy considering that she's on the game logo. Then again, so was Yuna on Final Fantasy X. I guess it'll depend on who the game starts with.

Now that I reread the developers blog, I am thinking the girl is the main character. He never defines the main character's gender, just states "it" having the largest story of all.

 

[Big-Cat]

Intriguing. At least this means that we might finally get a new girl character.

 

[Serph]

I was just thinking how different things could've been for Ganondorf had Twilight Princess not existed, or used the same visuals as Wind Waker. The proportions of "Toon" Ganondorf (as well as his attire) seem quite unsuitable for kicking, which is what a large portion of Falcon and Ganondorf's movesets involve. Coupled with the fact that Sakurai has said he was interested in using Ganondorf's Wind Waker model, I wonder if we'd have seen an almost completely new moveset had that been the case?

Ganondorf's Wind Waker appearance is my personal favourite, and it would've been amazing had he also used his twin swords from that game.

It'll be interesting to see which graphical style Zelda Wii uses, since that will no doubt be the form the Zelda characters take in SSB4. I know that one piece of artwork suggests the same style as TP, but it was stated that the actual look hadn't been decided by that point.

 

[Dingding123]

Everything I'd like to see in SSB4:

Paper mario
Ganon having his lightning ball projectile from OoT instead of warlock punch
Bowser shooting a fireball if you tap A that takes a large chunk out of his firebreath attack's cooldown
Link getting his old hookshot from Melee back
Airdodging from brawl AND melee
More balanced cast
Isaac from Golden Sun
Knuckles, maybe Tails too
and Shantae.

Oh, and also faster, more offensive gameplay. PLEASE.

 

[crimson7]

lets see in ssb4 i would love to see knuckles bomberman and megaman from battle network i think bomber man should have been in brawl but nentendo wasnt realy thinking bomber mans move set would be simalar to that of the prymids from the subspace emissary knuckles would have a simaler move set to the o9ne he had in sonic battle and megaman would have the same move set he had in onimusha blade worriors keep lucario put mewtwo back in with a very diffrent move set roy has his melee move set weakin metaknight make tails an assist trophy and revamp everyones final smash and i will be happy

 

[GalacticMario]

Support Geno and Mega Man 4 the next Smash Bros.!