[Official SSB4 Discussion] --- Nintendo announces 2 new Smash games!

[Big-Cat]

I'm fine with the idea. Heck, I could see a lot of depth being added just from this button alone. Do this, remove stale moves, and add tech grabs, built in ledge grab limits, and a Barrier Burst attack (along with maybe Super to use some of it as a cost) would be enough for me.

The thing is though, can you show me how these could be applied to the current roster? We also can't go with a forced template as some characters might not need directional inputs. I do have some ideas though:

Samus and Mario - Same as Megaman's. Let you choose between four different beams/weapons.
Dedede - Waddle Dee/Gordo/Waddle Doo Toss based on input
Pokemon Trainer - Pokeball switch, now you don't have to abide by some fixed order
Pikachu - Agility. Gives Pikachu a Command Dash something kind of like El Fuerte's of SFIV, Taokaka of BlazBlue, or both Yatterman-1 and 2 in TvC.
Olimar - Pull out a Pikmin. All Pikmin except Red are on this one. Red is on neutral Special. This allows you to pick which Pikmin you want plucked which adds a nice dimension of predicting your opponent to Olimar's game.
Zelda and Sheik - Transform moves to here to give both a full special moveset
Toon Link - Wind Waker. Exactly like Rachel's from BlazBlue.
Ganondorf - Switch between the current moveset and a possible, more faithful moveset.

I think with a number of these specials like for Mario, Samus, and Ganondorf, you should be able to buffer the inputs in order to have a seamless transition from one to another.

 

[SmashChu]

That's like saying every religion out there is true because there are reasons to believe them.

I've explained it more in another post, but what I'm saying is that because there is no evidence to say otherwise, that it makes sense to believe there is probably only two ways a character gets in (non-Nintendo). The other side can be true too because a lack of evidence does not prove no evidence. It's how you look at it, but both are reasonable.

Using religion as an example, it is why some people believe while others don't. There is no proof of a god, but the lack of proof doesn't mean there is no god. So both are reasonable. But, in both cases, you have to except there is little to no evidence to support the claim that the absents of evidence is not the evidence of absents.

The solution to MM's item problem could be solved somewhat if the whole third "action" button idea was used. (You know my idea on this one. The third action button is something that is generally unique to each character, sort of like what Blazblue does, and sort of like what Card Saga Wars is trying to do) You could use said button to switch the neutral special, which we all know would be the charge buster, into a different weapon, depending on the directional input. I'm under the assumption though that in such a case the other specials would remain the same.

Some other ways that might work are having a down B switch the weapons, or using taunts. My idea for Megaman was always that he got powers when he KOed the characters and then could use them. He'd always have his blaster though.

 

[DekuBoy]

Hmm... I know nothing about Megaman. However I would enjoy his inclusion.

A third-button is a FANTASTIC idea. The problem with being three games in, is that the veterans are starting to feel a bit stale. So adding a new dimension to their gameplay would be great.

PS: In this argument, I am Mr. Mime.

 

[ElPanandero]

What function would the third button provide though?

And Chu, I'm digging that idea for Megaman's copy ability, though woul dit be copy and paste like Kirby's, or more of an adaptation like most of the Megaman games?

 

[Pieman0920]

I'm fine with the idea. Heck, I could see a lot of depth being added just from this button alone. Do this, remove stale moves, and add tech grabs, built in ledge grab limits, and a Barrier Burst attack (along with maybe Super to use some of it as a cost) would be enough for me.

The thing is though, can you show me how these could be applied to the current roster? We also can't go with a forced template as some characters might not need directional inputs. I do have some ideas though:

Samus and Mario - Same as Megaman's. Let you choose between four different beams/weapons.
Dedede - Waddle Dee/Gordo/Waddle Doo Toss based on input
Pokemon Trainer - Pokeball switch, now you don't have to abide by some fixed order
Pikachu - Agility. Gives Pikachu a Command Dash something kind of like El Fuerte's of SFIV, Taokaka of BlazBlue, or both Yatterman-1 and 2 in TvC.
Olimar - Pull out a Pikmin. All Pikmin except Red are on this one. Red is on neutral Special. This allows you to pick which Pikmin you want plucked which adds a nice dimension of predicting your opponent to Olimar's game.
Zelda and Sheik - Transform moves to here to give both a full special moveset
Toon Link - Wind Waker. Exactly like Rachel's from BlazBlue.
Ganondorf - Switch between the current moveset and a possible, more faithful moveset.

I think with a number of these specials like for Mario, Samus, and Ganondorf, you should be able to buffer the inputs in order to have a seamless transition from one to another.

Well while I would assume that moveset changes would probably be something that some characters would have, I don't think that so many would really need to be implemented. As I said before, I feel Samus would be better off with a speed booster based deal, instead of switching out weapons. (Haven't thought too much as to exactly what Mario's would be. In reality, I thought something like that would probably be best to give to Link, where the third button could be used to switch out an item from his three non-recovery specials, with the up motion simply resetting Link's old items all at once. )

Also what if Pikachu had a changing special, where if the third button was held down, and directional inputs were pressed, Pikachu would start to create a charge, just like the spark ability in Kirby Super Star. It could be used to buff up some of Pika's electrical moves depending on the charge, as well as create a bit of a shock barrier, but if charged up too much, would start to cause damage to Pikachu, sort of like how Pichu would be damaged by its electrical attacks.

What function would the third button provide though?

The third button wouldn't really be defined. For each character it would do something unique. Its sort of borrowed from Blazblue and that fan game Card Saga Wars.

 

[SmashChu]

What function would the third button provide though?

And Chu, I'm digging that idea for Megaman's copy ability, though would it be copy and paste like Kirby's, or more of an adaptation like most of the Megaman games?

I'm thinking adaptation. Some of the moves will be like the characters attacks (like shooting a reflector for Fox and Falco) to moves like the Leaf Shield for Ivysaur. Maybe Captain Falcon will be a Falcon Punch.

 

[Arcadenik]

Hmm... I know nothing about Megaman. However I would enjoy his inclusion.

A third-button is a FANTASTIC idea. The problem with being three games in, is that the veterans are starting to feel a bit stale. So adding a new dimension to their gameplay would be great.

PS: In this argument, I am Mr. Mime.

What do you mean? The veterans are starting to feel a bit stale? I guess it must be because some of them had been in all three games. Either give them a couple new moves (examples: Mario's new down B is now F.L.U.D.D. and his new aerial down+A is now his old down B, Link's boomerang now has a tornado effect, Samus can remove her Power Suit and become Zero Suit Samus) or remove/replace them with new characters.

About Mega Man, I am thinking of something like this:

Mega Man faces Mario, Link, and Pikachu. Mega Man's left taunt allows him to shoot Mario's fireballs. His right taunt allows him to shoot arrows while his down taunt allows him to shoot electric bolts. His up taunt allows Mega Man to reset his arm cannon back to the Mega Buster. Mega Man's arm cannon is used with the B button. For his other specials, he can have Rush Coil (up B), Slide [similar to Charge Kick] (down B), and Mega Arm from Mega Man V for the Game Boy [similar to Hard Knuckle] (side B).

 

[augustoflores]

side note: hideo kojima is friends with goichi suda(travis touchdown)... also hideo kojima won't be working on metal gear series anymore but it is still continuing. MGS:Rising... saying this along with the "Brawl to end them all" tag. ssb4 could be made by someone else like kojima left the MGS series.

YESS!! we are talking about MEGAMAN!!!
what is wrong with Megaman X? all of youse keep referring to Classic megaman. X has more versatility.
Up B: Dash boot upgrade from X3. you can dash in the air and up in the air... way more productive than rush coil. (sonic spring clone move? what happens to rush? does it fall like the spring?) if classic megaman, i hate the idea of using the hard knuckle, just so you know.
isnt megaman x the only megaman iteration without a crossover?
Classic: MvC, MvC2
Roll: TvC, MvC2
X: None
Zero: TvC (didn't know this until i looked it up right now)
Megaman Zero: SvC Chaos, Samurai warriors smash clone thing
Megaman.EXE: Samurai warriors smash clone thing
Trigger/Volnutt: TvC
StarForce: who cares...

see? X is due for crossover

PS:

Gin Rummy - "The absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence"
Riley - "What?"

 

[Cyn]

what is wrong with Megaman X? all of youse keep referring to Classic megaman. X has more versatility.

probably since most X games (4,5,6,7,8) were on playstation, and all the originals were on NES .

 

[Jinxkatrina8]

Wasn't Meowth scheduled to be in Melee, but then cut?

 

[Pieman0920]

MM Classic is well...a classic. Its not really a matter of X having a lot of Playstation games and the original MM having a lot of Nintendo games, but rather that its the classic MM that began it all, and even now is still getting games. The same can't be said for X.

And as far as variety goes, that as a argument in regards to Mega Man is just silly.

And no, the Meowth thing is a rumor.

 

[Cyn]

I may not be accurate but I believe there are more original MM style games for nintendo than X or any other. Just as long as they don't make him look like he did on the original cover

 

[ElPanandero]

What if they combinced the megamen into one universal style? Use Classic model, throw some of X's special abilities (the dash, wall jump/slide, etc.) and maybe even some of the new virtual OS whatever Megaman (wary)

 

[Swift Fox Smash!]

Characters remove from SSB empire:
-Wolf
-Snake - that's from Konami!
-Squirtle and Ivysaur

Playable and non-playable character swap:
-ROB as assist trophy - It's enemy in SSE so why it's all so powerful when playable?
-Diddy as assist trophy
-Shadow as playable - time control is too silly
-Charizard as pokeball
-Falco as assist trophy*- So Fox can take Fox's old movesets back that Falco has stolen his from ssb64 then Falco get fewer movesets left to use

Re-intro fallen characters:
-Mewtwo
-Roy
-pichu as pokeball

New characters:
-[pokemon]
-[johto poke trainer]
-Skull Kid

nerf:
-Meta Knight
-Kirby - hammer is crazy compared to King Dedede's

improvement:
-Link - need rapid A
-Fox - has some movesets that Falco previously had

 

[SmashChu]

side note: hideo kojima is friends with goichi suda(travis touchdown)... also hideo kojima won't be working on metal gear series anymore but it is still continuing. MGS:Rising... saying this along with the "Brawl to end them all" tag. ssb4 could be made by someone else like kojima left the MGS series.

I don't think they will. They specifically asked Sakurai to do the game and would have made Melee 2.0 (literally) had he not done it. It's pretty clear they are unsure of anyone else doing it.

Metal Gear Solid is a little different. Smash is a big seller, but still a side series. Meta Gear Solid is one of Konami's big series, one they want to keep going to keep the profits. If Kojima doesn't want to do it, they'll have someone else go. Metal Gear Solid is like Zelda, and Miyamoto doesn't work on every Zelda game (although he oversees them).

Wasn't Meowth scheduled to be in Melee, but then cut?

No. The only character that wasn't added but planned was someone called Sakupon from Joy Mecha Fighter. Melee is the only one of the three games where they added more characters rather then taking some out.

What if they combinced the megamen into one universal style? Use Classic model, throw some of X's special abilities (the dash, wall jump/slide, etc.) and maybe even some of the new virtual OS whatever Megaman (wary)

I don't see anything wrong with it, as long as it feels like Classic Megaman.

 

[augustoflores]

Seriously Zero went behind X's back to enter the fray of Tatsunoko vs Capcom. some friend. i am being very serious here, no representation in a crossover game... an update to Geo Stellar, the crossover to Megaman battle network and Starforce counts toward Geo Stellar and Megaman.EXE's crossover list above continually leaving Megaman X, Dr. Right's final creation to stop Wily's evil plans, without more spotlight... furthermore in the event that X is chosen for ssb4 or brawl 2 or what ever they call it, they could make Mega Man X9 and X10 to spread the love...
POSTSCRIPT: in the event where Mega Man X is chosen for the upcoming Super Smash Brothers. Remember this moment where you spoke ill of the (future now - present then) A-Tier Combatant and it was just I who supported him during these trying times. (maybe someone else out there who doesn't wish to speak may vouch for his inclusion)

 

[BG3]

@Swift: I think removing Snake would create a large negative reaction to the fans. He opened the door for all other third parties, so I think it would be best for him to stay.

 

[Cyn]

POSTSCRIPT: in the event where Mega Man X is chosen for the upcoming Super Smash Brothers. Remember this moment where you spoke ill of the (future now - present then) A-Tier Combatant and it was just I who supported him during these trying times. (maybe someone else out there who doesn't wish to speak may vouch for his inclusion)

To be honest I don't really care what they make him look like, it would be pretty cool either way as long as some of his retro roots are represented (though a retro megaman character would be pretty sweet.

 

[Starphoenix]

I have no problem with the X series, being that Megaman X was my first Megaman game. Though I would like to see Classic Megaman, Megaman X or Zero would not make me unhappy in the least. Most importantly to me, regardless of which series, is the music. As that has always been one of the most important factors in a Megaman game. In the event of the X series being included, my music wish list would be as follows:

Central Highway - Megaman X http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u_Ft2niUeCU
Spark Mandrill - Megaman X http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CYdSLaVu9p4
X Hunter Theme - Megaman X2 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HQSYlTTUQdI
Gravity Beetle - Megaman X3 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I5TanI96EdE
Cyber Peacock - Megaman X4 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XjnEezSfdKE
Squid Adler - Megaman X5 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BZ03jCAt_ZE
X vs Zero - Megaman X5 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_eFI0UFfAJE
Blaze Heatnix - Megaman X6 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W0yZtgyqHXM
Vanishing Gungaroon - Megaman X7 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mVsXTF8YSyA
Gravity Antonion - Megaman X8 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HtoY0kwleQ4
Sigma Stage 2 - Megaman X http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KTfR4Ryu1BI
Dynamo - Megaman X5 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=74XqVL9zOZ0
Zero - Megaman X3 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sQgxfG8-sZA
Megaman X Theme - Megaman X4 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HfupWlmaQjg

 

[Pieman0920]

^Eh? Where's Storm Eagle's stage theme?

@Swift: So many bad ideas with removed characters. Honestly, seeing as you want to put Mewtwo and Roy back in, shouldn't it be obvious to you that cutting characters would be a bad thing? Especially original characters like Snake, ROB, and the Pokemon Trainer.

@August: The fact that MMX has had no cross over games generally makes me think that he won't get one, rather than the notion that he's due for one. In any case, he did show up in those Capcom/SNK card games. =/

 

[SmashChu]

@Swift: I think removing Snake would create a large negative reaction to the fans. He opened the door for all other third parties, so I think it would be best for him to stay.

The problem is that that is the nature of guest. They are guest.

Smash is not the first game to do this, and it certainly wont be the last. Soul Caliber is an amazing example of this. It is inevitable the guest will leave. In Soul Caliber 2, Link was very popular and was one of the reasons the Gamecube version was considered the best, but he would be removed (along with Spawn and Heihachi) in Soul Caliber 3. The Star Wars characters were added in SC4 and were removed in later games. Kratos is a guest character in the PSP version and will likely be removed as well. (Tekken has done this as well, but with a very obscure character).

The reason they get removed is that they are not part of the main cast. They are intentionally out of place, but this is part of the fun and excitement. If Snake stays, he wouldn't be as interesting. He'd just be one of the guys. Also, there are also legal barriers that make it harder to keep both Sonic and Snake in future Smash Bros. Rights change hands and can cost money. It may not be worth it to keep playing the same card. This doesn't mean we will never seen any other third parties, but we may not say Snake and Sonic again.

The only X factor is this is the first time a cross over game has had a guest character. Smash, by nature, is a game that bring multiple properties. It's just these guest are owned by Nintendo. The equivalent would be Banjo and Kazzoie in Sonic and Sega All Stars Racing.

 

[Gallowglass]

See I'm looking at Megaman's abilities more so like Kirby where his copy moves from his games are on his A or specials (e.g. final cutter, stone, etc...) but still has a copy ability. So I think traditionally MM should have a copy move but in game he only copies them after defeating him. This wouldn't work in Smash because if he only copy when he KO someone then it would suck loosing a cool move for taking out a weak character.

As for style I like the classic Megaman but it seems they use the latest style for Smash (OOT Link in Melee and TP in Brawl). I don't know what the new MM look like I've only played 1 and 2 of the classics.

 

[Starphoenix]

^Eh? Where's Storm Eagle's stage theme?

See I have this one Robot Master/Maverick Stage rule when it comes to music. I natually like Spark Mandrill better, so Eagle gets benched for now.

The problem is that that is the nature of guest. They are guest.

Smash is not the first game to do this, and it certainly wont be the last. Soul Caliber is an amazing example of this. It is inevitable the guest will leave. In Soul Caliber 2, Link was very popular and was one of the reasons the Gamecube version was considered the best, but he would be removed (along with Spawn and Heihachi) in Soul Caliber 3. The Star Wars characters were added in SC4 and were removed in later games. Kratos is a guest character in the PSP version and will likely be removed as well. (Tekken has done this as well, but with a very obscure character).

The reason they get removed is that they are not part of the main cast. They are intentionally out of place, but this is part of the fun and excitement. If Snake stays, he wouldn't be as interesting. He'd just be one of the guys. Also, there are also legal barriers that make it harder to keep both Sonic and Snake in future Smash Bros. Rights change hands and can cost money. It may not be worth it to keep playing the same card. This doesn't mean we will never seen any other third parties, but we may not say Snake and Sonic again.

The only X factor is this is the first time a cross over game has had a guest character. Smash, by nature, is a game that bring multiple properties. It's just these guest are owned by Nintendo. The equivalent would be Banjo and Kazzoie in Sonic and Sega All Stars Racing.

Snake I could see not returning, but I HIGHLY doubt Sonic the Hedgehog will be cut. Sega has been extremely "generous" with Sonic as of late and I do not see that changing. If Sakurai really wants to irritate fans he should do just that (remove Sonic), Mewtwo and Roys' "return" fanbase is nothing compared to what will happen if Sonic is removed. Only thing Sonic needs is some physical improvement.

See I'm looking at Megaman's abilities more so like Kirby where his copy moves from his games are on his A or specials (e.g. final cutter, stone, etc...) but still has a copy ability. So I think traditionally MM should have a copy move but in game he only copies them after defeating him. This wouldn't work in Smash because if he only copy when he KO someone then it would suck loosing a cool move for taking out a weak character.

As for style I like the classic Megaman but it seems they use the latest style for Smash (OOT Link in Melee and TP in Brawl). I don't know what the new MM look like I've only played 1 and 2 of the classics.

See I envision Megaman's weapon change system working more like Marvel Vs. Capcom. In that game he had three powers, Tornado Hold, Wood Shield, and the Mega Ball. To switch you had to perform a QCF on the d-pad. Well in Smash I could see his down special initiating/changing one of several pre-installed, random abilities from previous games. Which in turn would change the properties of his normal special (Megabuster) to something such as Quick Boomerang.

 

[SmashChu]

Snake I could see not returning, but I HIGHLY doubt Sonic the Hedgehog will be cut. Sega has been extremely "generous" with Sonic as of late and I do not see that changing. If Sakurai really wants to irritate fans he should do just that (remove Sonic), Mewtwo and Roys' "return" fanbase is nothing compared to what will happen if Sonic is removed. Only thing Sonic needs is some physical improvement.

Link being removed from Soul Caliber 2 was a big hit as well.

Guest tend to not become part of the main reason because they are guest. Fun in small doses, but it's not worth the effort to keep them in there and fans understand they are guest. Whether or not people will be upset is irrelevant. And heck, people will be upset if you remove any character. Had every character from Melee come back sans Pichu, people would still complain.

 

[Starphoenix]

Link being removed from Soul Caliber 2 was a big hit as well.

Guest tend to not become part of the main reason because they are guest. Fun in small doses, but it's not worth the effort to keep them in there and fans understand they are guest. Whether or not people will be upset is irrelevant. And heck, people will be upset if you remove any character. Had every character from Melee come back sans Pichu, people would still complain.

Difference between Link in Soul Caliber and Sonic the Hedgehog in Smash Bros is people were asking/pleading/begging/whining for Sonic to become playable in Brawl. Link was an awesome surprise by Namco for Nintendo fans, something to boost sales for SC2 on the GCN (kind of like Sonic per se). Sonic the Hedgehog's inclusion has more applications to it beyond simply being a guest.

Fun in small doses? I think Sonic can have just as much of an impact returning as he has had being introduced. You are implying he may "over stay his welcome", really? Two games?

People being upset is irrelevant? So intentionally removing one of the most requested and popular characters of all time to make room for a second rate character like Krystal (sorry Krystal Fans) is ok? It's one thing to make tough decisions, and yes people will gripe over anything, but this is just plain stupid! The only reason Sonic would not return is if Sega and Nintendo were not willing to renegotiate the terms of his use. We do not really what to expect from such a situation seeing as we are not there yet. As of now I do not see legal issues posing a problem, who knows, in the future Sega and Nintendo could suddenly despise each other thus ruining any contractual agreement.

 

[Thrillhouse-vh.]

We have NO clue about guests, that is up to the companies. We don't know if Kojima or SEGA would come up to Sora/Nintendo/Sakurai asking for them in again (maybe Kojima, as he really REALLY wanted Snake in).

The only thing we cannot have any idea about at ALL is 3rd party characters.

 

[ToiseOfChoice]

Think you missed the point here. You assume I said "Sakurai picks what he wants." Not true. What I mean is "Sakurai picks what people want to play with." This means either characters who people want to play as more those who work well in the realm of Smash, or both.
You can see I said it here: We could discuss the characters based on what Sakurai would want, which would be discussing which character people like the most or who could work the best in Smash Bros. Want was probably a bad word choice. Sakurai is good in that he makes his games with the player in mind, a rarity in this day and age. He has gone on record and said he does not make the games he likes to play. Heck, he didn't add a Kirby character until the third game.

I knew what you meant. Sakurai's wants = fans' wants (which I've never argued against).

My point still stands. There is absolutely no indication regarding anything on Square-Enix characters. Unless you count the Melee and Brawl polls, the former being invalid and the latter not actually being the results of a poll. So yeah, blank slate.

Not sure I need a membership card to chime in on discussion.

You need to chime in on discussion to chime in on discussion. You haven't mentioned a single character yet, and if it wasn't for this next bit, I wouldn't even know why you got all wound up over what me and Koops were talking about. Actually, I still don't, because...

Is it really that hard to understand how Sakurai acts after his results from three games? Sakurai has not added a generic character to any of the games. The only exception may be species (like Yoshi or Pikachu) and Pokemon Trainer (even if he is the main character). All of the characters have been major characters in the games. It only makes sense that, after 40+ characters, he's following #1.

1. They usually prefer individual characters over generic classes or creatures, especially for their higher profile games
- Means the Cecils, Bartzes, and Terras are more likely than the Warriors, Chocobos, and Onion Knights
2. They almost never limit themselves to main characters or even protagonists
- Means they wouldn't rule out characters like Kain, Gilgamesh, or Balthier, even if they're less likely
3. A lot of their decisions tend to be based off of what Nomura and friends want rather than fan demand (though there's a good amount of overlap there obviously); said decisions may have some arbitrary reasoning behind them
- The Dissidia interviews I linked to in my last post cover this in detail

The only actual input on the topic you've provided was agreeing with me on #1. Side note: all of the generics have also been either main characters or part of an ensemble with no specific lead (except Mog, sorta). They'd still be acceptable if a "leads only" rule were present.

Right now, I have no reason to even read any sentence you write that mentions popularity or how well they'd fit in Smash. You haven't shown any evidence that you're remotely familiar with the source.

Not matter what you may say, my reasoning is logical.My assumption is based on evidence. There is method A (Sakurai knows the person with the character) or B (the character is really popular). Could there be a C. Yes. Is there evidence to say there is a C. NO. This is what you are missing. No matter how many methods there could be, there is no evidence that there is one. Thus, my assumption is logical. Am I right? There is no evidence to say so. And I have never said my assumption was right, just that it is logical.

"We're looking at other possibilities for 3rd party characters. At a corporate level, there may be discussion going on right now. Snake is the only 3rd party character that has been confirmed. But that might open up other opportunities to have other characters available. Its more about having a character thats fun to be in there."
- Sakurai at E3 2006

#31-40: Sakurai starts by saying there wont be any manga characters. Then he begins talking about other companies characters to appear in the game. Among other things, Sakurai says that the character MUST have appeared on a Nintendo platform before. And to literally translate the last sentence (keep in mind this is in reference to the characters from other companies): "Anyways, at most we'll add another 1-2 characters [after Snake], maybe?"
- Sakurai's Blog from 2006 (the big SamuraiPanda translation)

"Nintendo hopes that Snake's appearance in Super Smash Bros. Brawl will encourage other publishers to allow their characters to join the Smash Bros. line-up, and is already actively negotiating for the rights to include at least one other non-Nintendo character. Both Sakurai and Mario creator Shigeru Miyamoto have stated that Sega's Sonic the Hedgehog is the character that Smash Bros. fans have requested the most and... well, it's hard to type these words with our fingers crossed!"
- More 2006 news why not

IGN: Have you received interest from other third parties who would very much like to have their characters included in Smash Bros. Brawl?
Masahiro Sakurai: Nope. No other ones.
- Sakurai at GDC 2008


Show me the part where the bar is as high as you say it is.

East Asia

I was looking for "I'm an expert" but no dice.

 

[ElPanandero]

See I'm looking at Megaman's abilities more so like Kirby where his copy moves from his games are on his A or specials (e.g. final cutter, stone, etc...) but still has a copy ability. So I think traditionally MM should have a copy move but in game he only copies them after defeating him. This wouldn't work in Smash because if he only copy when he KO someone then it would suck loosing a cool move for taking out a weak character.

As for style I like the classic Megaman but it seems they use the latest style for Smash (OOT Link in Melee and TP in Brawl). I don't know what the new MM look like I've only played 1 and 2 of the classics.

New Megaman is kind of weird...

Witht he exception of MM10, the latest were th ebattle network era (Am I right?) in which Megaman exists as a virtual tomagatchi of sorts. You give him battle chips and he gains abilities from them (swords, sheilds, grenades, etc.) While it may seem lame, if you took a few of his abilities and maybe gave them an old school look, he could come out ok....There is another megaman but he was only on Playstaions and didn;t offer anyting particulalrly special so we can leave him out.

 

[Fatmanonice]

I have no problem with the X series, being that Megaman X was my first Megaman game. Though I would like to see Classic Megaman, Megaman X or Zero would not make me unhappy in the least. Most importantly to me, regardless of which series, is the music. As that has always been one of the most important factors in a Megaman game. In the event of the X series being included, my music wish list would be as follows:

Good music list but the original Megaman is by far the most likely Megman to be added with Megaman Trigger/Volnutt being in second simply because he's Inafune's favorite of all the Megamans. It does make me wonder if Megaman was included if they would focus on only one of the series or if they would try to spread it out to all of them (ie; original, X, Battle Network, Zero, ZX, Legends, and Starforce) when it came to music and trophies.

 

[Pieman0920]

New Megaman is kind of weird...

Witht he exception of MM10, the latest were th ebattle network era (Am I right?) in which Megaman exists as a virtual tomagatchi of sorts. You give him battle chips and he gains abilities from them (swords, sheilds, grenades, etc.) While it may seem lame, if you took a few of his abilities and maybe gave them an old school look, he could come out ok....There is another megaman but he was only on Playstaions and didn;t offer anyting particulalrly special so we can leave him out.

Battle Network isn't the most recent new version. That would be MM Star Force. (Heck, ZX is younger than Battle Network at this point)

While Mega Man.EXE would work out fine in my opinion, he's really not that popular with the retro crowd, but he is popular in Japan. Still I think MM Classic has more priority.

 

[flyinfilipino]

Soulcalibur 3 was a Playstation exclusive, so I don't think Link's 'removal' upset too many that might not have had a chance to play GameCube Soulcalibur 2 (maybe).

@Kuma and Pieman: You guys are nuts (posting-wise)!

 

[SmashChu]

I didn't mean for this to go on as long as it did. Just to state it: My point was always I disagreed how the conversation was going and the train of though. That was all. I'll try to make this the last big one and any other reply would just be sweeping dust. I don't think a lot of you want big two person arguments.

@Starphoenix:I'll get back to your comments, but I'll try to either keep them short and sweet or try to elaborate more. Again, trying to end the two person conversations.

You need to chime in on discussion to chime in on discussion. You haven't mentioned a single character yet, and if it wasn't for this next bit, I wouldn't even know why you got all wound up over what me and Koops were talking about. Actually, I still don't, because...

Wasn't my first post chiming in about what I thought?

My point was, after thinking about it, I found it silly. I thought the conversation was a little off on how you were looking at it.

I'm not sure how you wouldn't know. I've said it in almost every post including the first one.

The only actual input on the topic you've provided was agreeing with me on #1. Side note: all of the generics have also been either main characters or part of an ensemble with no specific lead (except Mog, sorta). They'd still be acceptable if a "leads only" rule were present.

My entire post was input on the conversation. You have a very closed minded view on this. I HAVE to be talking exactly about what you two are talking about. My input was still input, but you think I need to be talking about what I think on the characters and what not. I really don't care about them, although I know people do. My whole point was I found the train of thought silly, and then you went off.

Bunch of quotes

Show me the part where the bar is as high as you say it is.

Show me the part where you say the bar is as low as it is.

Let me show you using something called Hypothesis test.
Basically, it's this test used in Statistics where you try to reject the other side's claim (called H0, or H not), which will allow you to accept your hypothesis, (HA, or the alternative hypothesis). So, here is an example. I say that the sky is not blue. But you say it is. Well, here is a hypothesis test.
H0:The sky is not blue
HA:The sky is blue.

Your goal is not to prove to me the sky is blue, but to reject my claim that is is not blue. Naturally, you can look up and see the sky is blue. Here is another one

H0:The US flag has less then (or equal to) 30 stars
HA:The US flag has more then 30 stars

If you try to prove HA, you are doing it wrong. You have to throw out my claim that there are 30 or less stars. So, you may use some multiplication rule to say that there are too many rows for it to be thirty. If you disprove H0, you can accept HA. It doesn't matter in this case if the US flag has 50, or if there are two hidden stars making it 52, it just has to be over 30.

The beauty of this is that both claim can never be right. If you can throw out H0, then it's opposite must be true. If you can prove the sky is not not blue (double negative I know). If that is so, the only option must be that it is indeed blue. Same with the flag: if the flag does not have 30 or less stars, then iut must have more. Before moving on, you can never accept H0, you just fail to reject it, and this is due to not having enough evidence.

Now, to our conversation.
H0:There are only 2 methods to accepting characters
HA:There are more then two methods to accepting characters
(NOTE:We both know there are at least two methods, so I didn't make mine 2 or less).
Now, your goal is to throw out H0, not try and prove to me why HA is better. To do this, you must prove that there is at least one more method. There can be 3, 4, 5 100, 10000, 27450891 methods, but it just has to be more then 2.

Here is the thing. There is no evidence of a third one. Look at your quote again. Did you ever see a way there could be a third method. All of them can be chopped up to the two I've mentioned before: Ask Sakurai(although technically I did say being friends which is where the East Asia blob came from, but they have the same method either way, so take it as you will) and be popular enough. If there is no evidence of a third one, then you have to fail to reject H0, no matter what you think.

This is why my point is logical, and what you keep missing. There is no evidence to support there is another one. Could there be? yes. But isn't it just as likely there could be only two? I mean, it is still a possibility. So my opinion is justified based on a reasonable conclusion and the evidence at hand.

So I don't see the back and forth on this. I have said you can be just as right. There is no hard proof of any more methods.

I was looking for "I'm an expert" but no dice.

Ad hominem. Good way to say little and mean nothing.

The point was that being friends in Japan means a lot more then it does here. If Nomura (did I spell that right?) came to Sakurai and asked for the Warrior of Light to be in Smash, Sakurai would probably not do it, although he'd give him lip service. That is the nature of Japan. There is also an implicit understanding, so no one may have asked for their character becuase they'd have no way of getting them in. But I'll leave that up in the air.

Remember, what works in the US may not work in Japan. They have much different cultures and norms. Oh, and take Japan Today in college. Good class.

 

[augustoflores]

lip service... gross j/k
anyways something else... it follows the whole sub menu idea but not technically the same. hows about a final smash chooser? either in the character select screen or you get a 3 second decision before you fight when he says 3...2...1...GO! then the one you highlighted is chosen, unless you took out the smash ball then you cannot choose... i want the super waft in favor of super wario but others might prefer super wario.
(instakill no mater where you are on the stage... hide in the halo spawn time? i dont think so... kidding not instakill)

 

[CaptainOlimar123]

It would be cool if Louie was in SSB4 but he would basically be the same thing as Olimar though. But I think Fawful should be in SSB4 and maybe his final smash would be Dark Fawful.

 

[OmegaXXII]

We have NO clue about guests, that is up to the companies. We don't know if Kojima or SEGA would come up to Sora/Nintendo/Sakurai asking for them in again (maybe Kojima, as he really REALLY wanted Snake in).

The only thing we cannot have any idea about at ALL is 3rd party characters.

This is definetly true, 3rd party charcters are definetly up in the air, though i wouldn't say Sonic would be removed since I guess he bonding more with Nintendo then he was 3 years back, i don't know, it's hard to say.

 

[SmashChu]

Good music list but the original Megaman is by far the most likely Megman to be added with Megaman Trigger/Volnutt being in second simply because he's Inafune's favorite of all the Megamans. It does make me wonder if Megaman was included if they would focus on only one of the series or if they would try to spread it out to all of them (ie; original, X, Battle Network, Zero, ZX, Legends, and Starforce) when it came to music and trophies.

I think we'll see most of the music from the classic games, but they'd sneek a tune in from Legends or X.

 

[ToiseOfChoice]

Wasn't my first post chiming in about what I thought?

My point was, after thinking about it, I found it silly. I thought the conversation was a little off on how you were looking at it.

I'm not sure how you wouldn't know. I've said it in almost every post including the first one.

[...]

My entire post was input on the conversation. You have a very closed minded view on this. I HAVE to be talking exactly about what you two are talking about. My input was still input, but you think I need to be talking about what I think on the characters and what not. I really don't care about them, although I know people do. My whole point was I found the train of thought silly, and then you went off.

You're not chiming in because you're not actually bringing anything to the discussion of what SE would do. Your first post was just "doesn't matter what Square-Enix says, Sakurai won't allow it." And you're not saying which characters Sakurai wouldn't allow, just the fact that Sakurai would turn them down immediately. Worse, it's all entirely based off of your whole "I know who Sakurai would accept because I know how Japan works" spiel.

It makes as much sense as me going "who would win, Ali or Tyson?" and you come in with "doesn't matter, God calls all the shots and they're both going to Hell when they die."

Show me the part where you say the bar is as low as it is.

[******** analogies]

How obvious does it need to be for you?

Sakurai outright says "we're looking at more 3rd party characters," "we're hoping more 3rd parties are interested," "we're still willing to put in more," and "no other companies ended up contacting us, oh well."

I know you want to think it's a friends/invite only type of deal, but it's been made abundantly clear that the door was open and no one showed up.

Ad hominem. Good way to say little and mean nothing.

If I say nothing, it's in response to nothing. Your "knowledge" of Japanese business, like most of the stuff you post here, is built off of things you picked up from VGChartz, Malstrom's blog, Wikipedia, and random scraps from the internet. And it's all painted through the lens of someone who doesn't understand the value in keeping 3rd party characters around to begin with. So basically you're full of crap.

What's odd is how you're ignoring what Sakurai himself has actually said on the subject. Even as a googly-eyed parrot, you're not doing a very good job.

 

[balloonwalla]

Every since I first played melee, IVE ALWAYS wanted to be geno or mallow from super mario rpg on the snes. THAT would be awesome

 

[Starphoenix]

Good music list but the original Megaman is by far the most likely Megman to be added with Megaman Trigger/Volnutt being in second simply because he's Inafune's favorite of all the Megamans. It does make me wonder if Megaman was included if they would focus on only one of the series or if they would try to spread it out to all of them (ie; original, X, Battle Network, Zero, ZX, Legends, and Starforce) when it came to music and trophies.

I think we could see a musical track from each main line series. Most likely the most popular, for instance.

Megaman X= Central Highway http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u_Ft2niUeCU
Megaman Battle Network=Champion Navi http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=65LTNuGwMR0
Megaman Legends=Flutter Vs. The Gesellschaft http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f29aKXbIIpQ


@Toise:

I agree with you, but your post is coming across as insulting. Do not care for his post-modern application but Smashchu has been respectable in his debate with you and/or myself. As for the subject itself I am done, I said what I needed to.

Everything is peaceful now that we are discussing Megaman music. Strange that the only time this thread is unified is when music is being discussed, and Megaman's at that...

 

[Pieman0920]

If MM Battle Network gets one song that represents it, it should be that main theme from BN2 and 3.

Here's a remixed version of it for the secret area in BN 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6jwLdtJc1jo