[Official SSB4 Discussion] --- Nintendo announces 2 new Smash games!

[Cyn]

I brought this up a while back, but apperently despite bign on the wii, since the NES release, A boy and His Blob has been bought up by a third party...meaing little to no chance....unfortunate I know...I would've liked to see him

oh well then, just an idea, although isnt this other slime guy from a third party?

 

[Big-Cat]

@Rapier: Not quite true. Some things simply can't work, such as Diskun.

@Arc: He may. Its wouldn't really be the first time a glob like fighter was in a fighting game. Just look at Arakune....though I suppose Arakune has a bit more going for him in terms of powers.

For those who actually know enough about Slime though, if he were to be on his own, what exactly would his specials be?

With Arakune, he's a gigantic somewhat sentient mass of bugs who can morph limbs out of his bugs if necessary. Unless of course, Slime can do it as well.

 

[Gallowglass]

@Rapier: Not quite true. Some things simply can't work, such as Diskun.

Sounds like a challenge. I just read the trophey from SSBM (it was the only one that was impossible to get) and he would be tough. But looking at Rob I think it will be doable. I'll post a moveset in another post.

 

[ElPanandero]

oh well then, just an idea, although isn't this other slime guy from a third party?

Yes, but the third party with Boy/Blob is lesser know, representing a lesser known character, with less people caring about it. Squenix is just below Capcom/Sega/Konami in relevance to Nintendo (or so i am inferring...I don't really know, I'm going off what is being said here). The third party who own Boy/Blob is a minor company (based in Canada I believe) without any landmark titles outside of old remakes and Virtual Console releases.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

It has been quite a long time since I did up my last Smash 4 roster. I have some new roster ideas that I never thought about in the past.

Anyway, feel free to reply about my newest roster if you want.

--------------------
Mario Series

Mario
Luigi
Peach
Bowser
Bowser Jr.
Waluigi
--------------------
Donkey Kong Series

Donkey Kong
Diddy Kong
King K. Rool
--------------------
Yoshi Series

Yoshi
--------------------
Wario Series

Wario
--------------------
The Legend of Zelda Series

Link
Zelda / Sheik
Ganondorf
Toon Link
Vaati
--------------------
Metroid Series

Samus / Zero Suit Samus
Ridley
--------------------
Kirby Series

Kirby
Meta Knight
King Dedede
--------------------
Star Fox Series

Fox McCloud
Falco Lombardi
Wolf O'Donnell
Leon Powalski
Krystal
--------------------
Pokemon Series

Pikachu
Mewtwo
Pokemon Trainer (Squirtle, Ivysaur, Charizard)
Plusle & Minun
Lucario
Zoroark
--------------------
F-Zero Series

Captain Falcon
Samurai Goroh
Black Shadow
--------------------
EarthBound / Mother Series

Ness
Lucas
--------------------
Fire Emblem Series

Marth
Ike
--------------------
Ice Climber Series

Ice Climbers
--------------------
Game & Watch Series

Mr. Game & Watch
--------------------
Kid Icarus Series

Pit
Palutena
--------------------
Pikmin Series

Olimar
--------------------
Gyromite

R.O.B.
--------------------
Punch-Out!! Series

Little Mac
King Hippo
--------------------
Golden Sun Series

Isaac
--------------------
Metal Gear Series

Solid Snake
--------------------
Sonic Series

Sonic the Hedgehog
Miles "Tails" Prower
Knuckles the Echidna
Amy Rose
Shadow the Hedgehog
Dr. Eggman
--------------------
Mega Man Series

Mega Man
--------------------
Total: 56 (excluding transformations)

 

[Cyn]

Yes, but the third party with Boy/Blob is lesser know, representing a lesser known character, with less people caring about it. Squenix is just below Capcom/Sega/Konami in relevance to Nintendo (or so i am inferring...I don't really know, I'm going off what is being said here). The third party who own Boy/Blob is a minor company (based in Canada I believe) without any landmark titles outside of old remakes and Virtual Console releases.

yeah, but I mean who cares right? Back in the day A Boy and his Blob was a pretty well known game if I remember.

 

[mystery_dungeon]

@Mario_and_Sonic_Guy

Mario: No complants.
Donkey Kong: No complants.
Yoshi: No complants.
Wario: No complants.
Zelda: I don't know about Vaati. Maybe if he makes a comeback first, but until then, probably not.
Metroid: Perfect.
Kirby: Perfect.
Star Fox: 5 characters is a bit too much don't you think?
Pokemon: Whether we like it or not, Jigglypuff is here to stay. Plusle & Minun aren't really needed, but that's just me.
F-Zero: I doubt we'll get Samurai Goroh and Black Shadow together. Just one or the other.
Earthbound-Gyromite: No complaints.
Punch-Out!!: Little Mac only for now.
Golden Sun, Metal Gear, and Mega Man: No complaints.
Sonic: Needs moar Big the Cat

Spoiler

I like Sonic as much as the next guy, but Sonic is all that is needed. Besides, it wouldn't be fair if Sonic had many characters while Metal Gear and Mega Man only have one now would it?

 

[Cyn]

I think the hunters from MP3 should be viable canidates for the Metroid roster. Gandrayda, Ghor, and that Ice guy would all be kinda unique to play with. Since metroid doesn't have any other viable canidates I think it sort of makes sense. But then again, the prime series is over and the hunters all were destroyed by the end, so maybe the next playable Metroid character will come from The Other M

 

[Thirdkoopa]

@Koops: I was hoping for "here's my take on each character" rather than a list truncating. And I wouldn't consider White Mage and Gilgamesh to be no-chancers (even though White Mage would probably have a team-up with Black Mage). You should look into SE's history with picking characters for playable cameos.

k fine

on my "What square-enix did for nintendo" list I forgot SMRPG. knew i was missing something : (

Personally If we were not to get Chocobo I'm starting to think that Mog/Moogle is the best option. It's basically the nintendo version of what Vivi is to the Sony/Later FF's. White Mage does however have a history with cameo's and Gilgamesh...Yeah no shot ever.

Then we have the protaginists. The Warrior of Light only has the redeeming quality of being the first, Frijion (Why can I never spell this right?) Bartz and the Onion Knight are hardly known outside of japan but Onion Knight is a class so that's something there. A highly memorable class. FF4 still got the not due to having the DS remake but If 6 were to ever see a DS remake then I'm pretty posistive If we were to get a protaginist that it'd be either the Warrior of Light or Terra.

The thing however is with the protaginists only each game holds such a certain ammount of popularity. The only protaginist widely known is Cloud; Slightly Tidus and Squall. Everyone else barely makes it by a landslide. Then again Fire Emblem went with Marth, but Marth has more asides from just remakes. And we have to consider how it's much harder to pick one class for FE than it is for FF.

Then...There's not really much to it. They'll either go with a protaginist or a generic iconic creature most likely. Which leads us down to a low number when you minimalize it.

 

[Gallowglass]

If Diskun would be playable (which he most likely wouldn't) he would have a moveset of shapeshifting into various items from his famicon games and attacks in forms of disks.

For those who don't know Diskun is the mascot of the Disk system for the Japanese NES. He was a SSBM trophey if you collected all the bonuses. This is what it reads.

This little guy is the adorable mascot for a Nintendo Entertainment System peripheral device released in 1985. Using the disk system, you could rewrite games for 500 yen, an epochal and economical feature. Funnily enough, the instruction booklet was sold separately for 100 yen. The disk system's first game was The Legend of Zelda.

Disk System (Japan Only)

Here's a picture.
http://smash.kraven213.com/diskun.jpg


Now to make a moveset I thought the main aspect is the word "Disk" so he would probably flat but thicker then Mr. G&W. He has somewhat appearance for arms that could stretch out a bit for grabbing ledges or people but his main ability would shapeshifting to different items. A lot of the games the disk system supported were sports games (baseball, tennis, soccer, punch out boxing). It also allowed games like Metroid and Kid Icarus to have saves like Zelda.

So basic attacks he could shift into items like a baseball bat, tennis racket, boxing glove, etc. and his special attacks would be related to disk moves. One of his moves would throw a disk out like a shuriken or launch his body out like a frisbee at an attacker.

Judging by what Sakurai did with Rob he would do a much better job at developing him then I would.

 

[edgeluca]

Some of my wanted characters:
Ephraim (Fire emblem: sacred stones)
Hector (Fire emblem (7))
Issac (Golden Sun)
Any FF character (It would probably be cloud)
Sora (kingdom hearts)
Lloyd (tales of symphonia)
Kratos (ToS)
Richter (ToS2)
King K Rool (DK)
Krystal, but you are already discussing this
More, I'll discuss later (Gotta get to work )

 

[Starphoenix]

For those who actually know enough about Slime though, if he were to be on his own, what exactly would his specials be?

^B=Balloon (taken from Rocket Slime)
B=Sizzle (a magical fire attack, a common attack among Slime enemies)
vB=KaBuff (a defensive magical attack)
>B=Stretch (taken from Rocket Slime, Slime stretches his body out and releases forward with massive energy)

I just came up with an idea for a Final Smash for Slime. He could grow bigger like Jigglypuff's Final Smash and become King Slime, complete with a crown, and he moves around the stage, pushing the oppponents away. I think it would be funny to see Chocobo riding on top of King Slime, you know, the opposite of Slime riding on Chocobo.

Or another idea is to use the Slime Tank from Rocket Slime. What could happen is for the giant Schleiman tank to appear in the background and fire various Slimes at the stage causing damage to whoever they hit. The attack can end with one last shot, a King Slime with a bigger hit radius.

Just an idea...

 

[ToiseOfChoice]

@Koops: Okay, here's the deal with SE and their history of crossovers/cameos:

1. They usually prefer individual characters over generic classes or creatures, especially for their higher profile games
2. They almost never limit themselves to main characters or even protagonists
3. A lot of their decisions tend to be based off of what Nomura and friends want rather than fan demand (though there's a good amount of overlap there obviously); said decisions may have some arbitrary reasoning behind them

The reason my list had so many characters on it is because I believe the pool to be wider than most people here would assume. And that's because what makes sense to us doesn't apply to the zany world of SE's biggest of cheeses.

Right now the best insight for what SE would pick probably comes from various Nomura interviews, especially the ones on Dissidia. They're pretty chatty about character selection there, so much that they've already confirmed two characters for a possible sequel. You should take a look.

 

[OmegaXXII]

Like i've said in the past, the following character would have been suited for Brawl, and even better if they made it to a potential sequal:

Wart (Super Mario Bros. 2): I think everybody here has forgotten about him, heck I think I never even seen him in any other Mario game (not even Mario Party!) If he were to be revived in Smash much like the way Game & Watch was, then people would finally start to notice him again.

The Black Knight (Fire Emblem: Path of Radiance): I dissapointed that Fire Emblem didn't get a villain rep, they managed to get Ike in, why not him as well, (not even as a freakin' AT), he would truly be a force to be reckoned with he he were to appear, I could picture him being a heavy character which I just love.

 

[Cyn]

isn't wart the same as toad or is he considered a different character? If not then we haven't forgotten him and debated about him before with the result being (if I remember correctly) that he is already being utilized by peach....

 

[OmegaXXII]

isn't wart the same as toad or is he considered a different character? If not then we haven't forgotten him and debated about him before with the result being (if I remember correctly) that he is already being utilized by peach....

Lol.. Toad would make a nice character, but i'm not taking about Toad, I'm talking about this guy:

See what I mean, people have forgotten all about this guy and you clearly demontrated it.

 

[Cyn]

oops I was way off lol don't know what I was thinking. Yeah he def isn't remembered much. But thanks my memory stands refreshed.

He'd be a good heavyweight character.

 

[SmashChu]

@Koops: Okay, here's the deal with SE and their history of crossovers/cameos:

1. They usually prefer individual characters over generic classes or creatures, especially for their higher profile games
2. They almost never limit themselves to main characters or even protagonists
3. A lot of their decisions tend to be based off of what Nomura and friends want rather than fan demand (though there's a good amount of overlap there obviously); said decisions may have some arbitrary reasoning behind them

The reason my list had so many characters on it is because I believe the pool to be wider than most people here would assume. And that's because what makes sense to us doesn't apply to the zany world of SE's biggest of cheeses.

Right now the best insight for what SE would pick probably comes from various Nomura interviews, especially the ones on Dissidia. They're pretty chatty about character selection there, so much that they've already confirmed two characters for a possible sequel. You should take a look.

The problem is it would never be what Square Enix wants, but what Sakurai wants. Snake was added because a friend of his asked for it. Sonic was added because everyone wanted him. Neither instance has him going to the company and asking for anyone. He asked for specific characters. Sakurai does not see it as adding a Square Enix characters, he sees it as adding X. So, saying which Square Enix character will get in is irrelevant. Saying X may get it is relevant.

 

[DekuBoy]

Sorry to break the conversation but I was just thinking about Travis Touchdown getting in and I remembered something. In the credits for the SSE, Suda51 is listed. I don't know what he did to get a Special Thanks, but he might have talked to Sakurai about SSB4 like the Sakurai/Kojima talk that got Snake in Brawl. Any thoughts?

 

[Big-Cat]

I just looked at a video of the credits, and I see neither Suda 51 nor Goichi Suda.

 

[DekuBoy]

In the Special Thanks? I'll find it for ya.

Here ya go.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4UQkL54wjMc

At 3:51.

 

[SmashChu]

Sorry to break the conversation but I was just thinking about Travis Touchdown getting in and I remembered something. In the credits for the SSE, Suda51 is listed. I don't know what he did to get a Special Thanks, but he might have talked to Sakurai about SSB4 like the Sakurai/Kojima talk that got Snake in Brawl. Any thoughts?

Oh, well that's interesting. Didn't know he was in the credits. He may have helped design or program the game.

I don't think this means Travis will be in the next game. In East Asia, connections are huge. People will go out of their way for those who they have a strong connection with. In fact, big business decisions are usually made if the other side can down a bottle of sake. Sakurai is friends with Kojima, so it doesn't take much to do it for him, and Iwata trust Sakurai, and knows that if Sakurai is OK with it, then he is Ok with it. Unless Suda 51 is a friend or has a strong connection with Sakurai, don't expect him in Brawl.

Third party characters are not going to be a common thing. heck, Snake wasn't added because Sakurai felt that they need to open the game to other companies for characters. It's the opposite in fact: Sonic, the character everyone wanted since Melee, wasn't even considered until the last minute, the that was probably only possible because Sakurai added Snake. So I don't foresee this being a common thing. In fact, Sanke and Sonic may not even be in the next game.

 

[Big-Cat]

IIRC, Kojima asked Sakurai to put Snake in Melee but there wasn't time. Sonic was supposedly wanted as well, but what with the Dreamcast dying and what not, it would've been very awkward at the time.

Also, we don't know the exact circumstances on Sonic being one of the last characters. Considering that copyrights are a total *****, I wouldn't be surprised that he was one of the last.

 

[SmashChu]

IIRC, Kojima asked Sakurai to put Snake in Melee but there wasn't time. Sonic was supposedly wanted as well, but what with the Dreamcast dying and what not, it would've been very awkward at the time.

Also, we don't know the exact circumstances on Sonic being one of the last characters. Considering that copyrights are a total *****, I wouldn't be surprised that he was one of the last.

We aren't sure if that source is correct. We know Kojima asked for Snake in Melee, but there wasn't time, and that Kojima and Sakurai are friends which makes all the difference. Even if Naka asked for Sonic in Melee, without the connections, nothing would come of it.

Sakurai has said that all the characters were finalized in 2005/2006 with the exception of Sonic which was in 2007. This means that Sonic wasn't considered until 2007, when the game was deep in development. Legality probably didn't hold anything back. Sega was probably happy to add Sonic. The only X factor may have been Mario and Sonic and the Olympic games, but that was announced in the same year as Sonic was in Brawl. The game was also delayed on the day he was abnnounced, implying they hadn't had enough time to work on him.

 

[Big-Cat]

All in all, it's a very vague manner. We will likely never know the details behind the process of getting him in. We also don't know whether or not the game was delayed because of him. There could have very well been other factors involved, possibly the online mode.

 

[DekuBoy]

I would say that was one of the reasons it was delayed. When you get the chance to create mass-hype and get more sales you take it, know what I mean?

 

[ToiseOfChoice]

The problem is it would never be what Square Enix wants, but what Sakurai wants. Snake was added because a friend of his asked for it. Sonic was added because everyone wanted him. Neither instance has him going to the company and asking for anyone. He asked for specific characters. Sakurai does not see it as adding a Square Enix characters, he sees it as adding X. So, saying which Square Enix character will get in is irrelevant. Saying X may get it is relevant.

Sakurai isn't picking the characters to use, he's just approving them. Remember his whole "they have to come to me" policy? And I don't know why you're assuming that whatever SE would choose wouldn't coincide with what Sakurai would accept.

 

[Gallowglass]

Like i've said in the past, the following character would have been suited for Brawl, and even better if they made it to a potential sequal:

Wart (Super Mario Bros. 2): I think everybody here has forgotten about him, heck I think I never even seen him in any other Mario game (not even Mario Party!) If he were to be revived in Smash much like the way Game & Watch was, then people would finally start to notice him again.

The Black Knight (Fire Emblem: Path of Radiance): I dissapointed that Fire Emblem didn't get a villain rep, they managed to get Ike in, why not him as well, (not even as a freakin' AT), he would truly be a force to be reckoned with he he were to appear, I could picture him being a heavy character which I just love.

I remeber Wart the koopa-like frog that you killed by choking him to death with vegatables. I don't know about him coming back but other characters like Mouser, Fryguy, etc were very cool bosses. I don't know about them being in Smash but future Mario games would be cool.

As for Travis Touchdown I don't know about him. I mean I'm a little more tolerant of him then most 3rd parties since his games are only for the Wii. It's the fact that he comes from a very violent bloody game and all his moves kill people bothers me. Though he does fit into smash better then Snake.

 

[smashless gama]

Add Isaac, Knuckles, Megaman, Lyn, King K. Rool, Samurai Goroh, Bowser Jr.
Take away Jigglypuff. His time is up. Also take away ROB.
BRING BACK ROY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Give Ganon a sword, for goodness sake. He would be so much better.
Make a Bowser stage. We need it. Badly.
Improve stage builder. Give more options to it, like better backgrounds, more stage accessories, etc.
What the heck is with everyone wanting Ridley to be a playable character????? It's the stupidest thing I've ever heard! How the heck will that even work???? It's like playing as Master Hand--It won't work!
As for the physics, make it heavier than Brawl and lighter than Melee. No tripping.
So yeah, more Fire Emblem Characters, please. More stages, better options, and Isaac.

Lyn would be my main. :D

 

[Pieman0920]

Ugh, I swear people don't think right when they suggest the Black Knight. The character is outshined by a good deal of other character within his own games, not to mention the Fire Emblem series as a whole, and by his very story he is obligated to be a clone of Ike (Same mentor, same fighting style almost same weapon) and that would be dumb as it is, because he'd have to be stronger and slower than Ike, which is like saying we need a stronger and slower version of Bowser.

EDIT: Also Omega, Game & Watch had already been brought into the modern era with the Game & Watch gallery games before Melee.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

@Mario_and_Sonic_Guy

Mario: No complants.
Donkey Kong: No complants.
Yoshi: No complants.
Wario: No complants.
Zelda: I don't know about Vaati. Maybe if he makes a comeback first, but until then, probably not.
Metroid: Perfect.
Kirby: Perfect.
Star Fox: 5 characters is a bit too much don't you think?
Pokemon: Whether we like it or not, Jigglypuff is here to stay. Plusle & Minun aren't really needed, but that's just me.
F-Zero: I doubt we'll get Samurai Goroh and Black Shadow together. Just one or the other.
Earthbound-Gyromite: No complaints.
Punch-Out!!: Little Mac only for now.
Golden Sun, Metal Gear, and Mega Man: No complaints.
Sonic: Needs moar Big the Cat

Spoiler

I like Sonic as much as the next guy, but Sonic is all that is needed. Besides, it wouldn't be fair if Sonic had many characters while Metal Gear and Mega Man only have one now would it?

I was thinking about character rivalries and party rivalries while doing this roster.

For one instance, in the Star Fox games, Falco and Leon tend to fight against each other, which easily implies that those two have had a bitter rivalry even before joining the Star Fox and Star Wolf teams.

Regarding the 3rd party franchises, Nintendo and Sega have had the biggest rivalry in general, which explains why I had the Sonic series have the same number of fighters as the Mario series. Konami and Capcom didn't exactly have a heavy rivalry with Nintendo, last I've checked.

But again, these are just my opinions.

 

[mystery_dungeon]

Understandable!

But regardless, I stand by my opinion on your list.

Spoiler

*wiggles eyebrow*

 

[Arcadenik]

No way. Adding rivals for the sake of having rivals is a stupid move. It is just as bad as adding females/villains/etc. for the sake of having females/villains/etc.

I can see it now... Waluigi comes in the SSB4 audition. Sakurai asks "why should I add you to the roster?" Waluigi says "oh, well, I use my tennis racket and I hit my enemies with it!" Sakurai responds "that's it? I don't see anything remotely interesting about that." Waluigi quickly answers "but I am Luigi's rival!" Sakurai excitedly says "you are in!"

I am sick of the "the whole Sonic cast should be in Smash!" crap. It was bad enough that fans rabidly cried for Sonic... but now they have to have the whole cast, too? No freaking way!

 

[ElPanandero]

@Pieman

While Black Knight would be similar to Ike (although he could be vastyl different in specials) The main reason he is chosen often is for the exact reason Mario and Sonic Guy said. People like revialries and scenrio-esque fights/ (or at least i do). With Ike and Marth being the only playable Fire emblem characters thus far, we would have to choose from their rivals. Ahsnard is second to BK in regards to Ike, and Marth's enemy was a giant Earth Dragon...Though I'd be cool with Gharnef as a character, but thats just me.

 

[Big-Cat]

I'd only want Waluigi in if and only if Captain Syrup is in so it can be like the Dorombo gang from Yatterman is in except the lackeys hate Doronjo.

 

[Jinxkatrina8]

Ugh, 2 things, 1... Why do people always suggest the vaguest, most unlikely characters? Oh wait... if we got ROB in Brawl...

2: Why do people want to get rid of Jigglypuff? Da Puff's a ****in gangsta. Seriously though, all of the originals from SSB should stay. They've been with the series since the beginning, they're essential

 

[Big-Cat]

Speaking of Puff, Luigi, Capt. Falcon, Ness, and Jigglypuff should be on the starting roster. By now, I think it's getting old that we have to unlock all of them by now. I also hope that next time, they put redistribute the amount of starting and unlockable newcomers. After all, the only newcomers that were hidden in Brawl were the following:

Wolf
Lucario
R.O.B.
Snake
Sonic
Toon Link (technically)

Then we had these newcomers that were available from the start:

Diddy Kong
Ike
Dedede
Lucas
Meta Knight
Olimar
Pit
Pokemon Trainer
Zamus
Wario

The bold should've been the only ones in the starting roster with some of the unlockable veterans being starters.

Maybe for SSB4, if we do another starting five, I'd go with this:
Toad
Isaac
Little Mac
Capt. Syrup
Starfy

Sorry, it's just another "grievance" with Brawl.

 

[Arcadenik]

Why is it that many of the most wanted newcomers for SSB4 happen to be rivals (or villains) of existing characters?

Black Knight (Ike)
Black Shadow (Captain Falcon)
Bowser Jr. (Mario)
Captain Syrup (Wario)
Kamek (Yoshi)
King K. Rool (Donkey Kong, Diddy Kong)
Leon Powalski (Falco)
Masked Man (Lucas)
Mewtwo (Pikachu, Pokemon Trainer, Lucario)
Porky (Ness, Lucas)
Ridley (Samus)
Rival Trainer (Pokemon Trainer)
Samurai Goroh (Captain Falcon)
Shadow (Sonic)
Vaati (Toon Link)
Waluigi (Luigi)

What is this? Super Smash Bros. Dissida?

 

[Big-Cat]

Well, considering that the main protagonists have already been added, the other character to take from another series would logically be an antagonist or a fellow main character.

 

[Arcadenik]

Well, considering that the main protagonists have already been added, the other character to take from another series would logically be an antagonist or a fellow main character.

But didn't you see that list I made? The roster would be boring if it had only the villains as newcomers, especially when they didn't bring in any new franchises to the series.

New main protagonists from new franchises would be a good thing for Smash. Keep things fresh and exciting with more variety, you know?