[Official SSB4 Discussion] --- Nintendo announces 2 new Smash games!

[Big-Cat]

One more thing, about "Baby Bros shouldn't getting in," this is why we can never get anywhere in discussions, let alone engage in intelligent discussions. One where we're like "Hey, this character is great for Smash." "I dunno, he/she has some issues. "Gee, didn't think about that, but you might want to look at it this way." "Wow, I can definitely see where you're coming from."

Seriously, hop off your high horse. If you cannot even dignify the character with the least bit of plausibility, you should fall back and refrain yourself from saying anything else silly.

This is why, if we're going to talk about characters, we shouldn't be focusing on likelihood for characters. When you're focusing on likelihood, it becomes much more about exclusion than inclusion.

Not only that, but all this stuff Pieman's got going doesn't even reflect the official criteria which, like me personally, is more about inclusion, than exclusion.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

Aww

Well I advise you and Koops to agree to disagree, then, 'cause neither of you are budging. You think Mother shouldn't--yet realize it could--get another character for [silly] reasons Koops nor myself agrees with, saying so-and-so doesn't apply to said characters.

Very nicely said, Cafe. If I may add, one of my reasons for supporting them comes from the fact that Brawl never truly explains how these two characters connect. They just literately threw Ness and Lucas in there with no explination on anything

...Yet we have 530 trophies that are canonical to storyline. That, and they'd bring a great new spice into representing Mother. Anyways, Looking past in the thread, Here's the bottom line:

1)Pretty sales charts don't apply as much as everyone thinks they do - Characters aren't the only way to "Rep" A series. The Other gens still at least get pretty pokeballs and nice stages. Comparing sales doesn't add up.

2)The series can be considered "Evolving" Under Fire Emblem - It depends on what you see it as. I see it as a 50/50, which at this point, we have no true indication of which one it falls under.

3)Nobody has a true indication of what people think outside of the internet - It's more doubtable to find someone who knows MK, Rool, and Claus rather than knowing Bowser, Mewtwo, and Ganondorf. We have no true indication of anything. The only true case is Sonic and the Melee veterans.

4)They're important and stand o...Oh wait. Nobody's debating this.

5)We don't know what will happen to Dead series that are Static - We don't, however it may mean very well the end of Mother's expansion as well, much like Point 2.

6)Sakurai isn't afraid of supporting characters, no one else (majorities) seems to be - This is true.

7)Sales matter to a certain extent - It can help on who gets in first. Popular series should get completed first before less popular ones, and past trends follow that.

8)Statuses don't matter much, it seems - This game is resolving around Nintendo's entire history and should not be limited to keeping it to the past 5 years.

9)Nobody has any true say in what series is more important to "Rep" First and only Sakurai and Co do - Also true.

10)A lot of what Pieman said was never listed in the "Critera" thus not even knowing how much of an influence it has. It can have some, but doesn't appear to all that much.

11)Everyone sees character inclusions differently

12)This turned into a trainwreck of 7 pages - Trainwrecks are cool.

13)You like lists? I like lists too!

So with what we have, It's proven to be a very debateable topic and comes upon how you see this series.

That said, for all of those who are clueless on the series, I'll give this all a nice end:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6mudEn-dRGg < Best victory theme for them ever. Period.
http://daimondstar07.deviantart.com/art/FINALE-Mother-127831070 < Spoilers
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y-C3T83mUpc&feature=related < Master Porky's Battle Theme
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZAYjzPsve8E < Mt. Itoi Peak
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I1QfIbLulf8 < Pokey Means Business

http://ikusaba.client.jp/character/image/maskman.png
http://ikusaba.client.jp/character/image/pokey.png < Image urls for people not having it work for you

Edit: Apparently Ikusaba isn't working, so here's at least the Claus one: http://i48.tinypic.com/a1lk07.png Can't find the Pokey one.

 

[ScoobyCafe]

Holy ****, a friend of mine just suggested something stupid-awesome for Pokey. So you know how his spider mech is, right?--walking and attacking with spikes? Well she thought about giving him some type of back-pack, kinda like Invader Zim, where those spikes protrude from it so that he walks and attacks with them.

First thing that popped in my mind was:

He even kinda looks like Pokey. Now I seriously want him to appear as a playable character.

 

[Arcadenik]

The following post is a huge wall of text. Just a heads up. So, don't try to quote the entire post.

Super Smash Bros. came out in Japan on January 1999 and North America on April 1999. This means we must assume that it was developed throughout most of 1998.

Nintendo's #1 mascot, protagonist/mascot of the Mario series, Super Mario 64 (1996), Super Mario World (1990), Super Mario Bros. (1985)

protagonist/mascot of the Donkey Kong series, Donkey Kong Country (1994), possibly advertising Donkey Kong 64 (due to come out in November 1999)

protagonist/mascot of the Zelda series, The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time (1998), The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past (1991)

protagonist/mascot of the Metroid series, Super Metroid (1994)

protagonist/mascot of the Yoshi series, Yoshi's Story (1997), Super Mario World 2: Yoshi's Island (1995), Super Mario World (1990)

protagonist/mascot of the Kirby series, Kirby's Dream Land 3 (1997), Kirby Super Star (1995), possibly advertising Kirby 64: The Crystal Shards (due to come out in March 2000)

protagonist/mascot of the Star Fox series, Star Fox 64 (1997), Star Fox (1993)

#1 mascot of the Pokemon series, #1 star of the Pokemon anime (1997), protagonist/mascot of Pokemon Yellow (1998), Pokemon Red/Blue (1996)

protagonist/mascot of the F-Zero series, F-Zero X (1998), F-Zero (1990)

protagonist/mascot of the Mother series, Mother 2 (1994), Mother 1 (1989) through his likeness to Ninten

the second half of the Super Mario Bros., protagonist/mascot of the Mario series, Super Mario World (1990), Super Mario Bros. (1985)

purportedly the #2 mascot of the Pokemon series in Japan during the 1990's, added as a joke character, Pokemon Yellow (1998), Pokemon Red/Blue (1996)

Super Smash Bros. Melee came out in Japan on November 2001 and North America on December 2001. That must mean it was developed from late 2000 through the summer of 2001.

antagonist/mascot of the Mario series, Super Mario World: Super Mario Advance 2 (2001), Paper Mario (2000), Super Mario 64 (1996), #1 in the Mario category with 169 votes on the Melee poll

major character and mascot of the Mario series, Super Mario Advance (2001), Paper Mario (2000), Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars (1996), #2 in the Mario category with 66 votes on the Melee poll

:shiek: in Zelda's case: major character and mascot of the Zelda series, The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time (1998), The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past (1991); in Sheik's case: a very popular major character who is really Zelda (but not the mascot of the Zelda series because she is an one-time character) at the time Zelda 64 was still new, both were tied for #2 of the Zelda series with 8 votes on the Melee poll

mascots/protagonists of Ice Climber (1985), added to represent the Famicom era (1983-1989), #9 in the Other category with 4 votes on the Melee poll

:mewtwo: mascot of the Pokemon series, star of the first Pokemon movie (1998), Pokemon Yellow (1998), Pokemon Red/Blue (1996), #1 in the Pokemon category with 35 votes on the Melee poll

protagonist/mascot of the Fire Emblem series, Fire Emblem 3 (1994), Fire Emblem (1990), #1 in the Fire Emblem category with 21 votes on the Melee poll

protagonist/mascot of the Game & Watch series, Game & Watch Gallery 3 (1999), Game & Watch Gallery 2 (1998), Game & Watch Gallery (1997), possibly advertising Game & Watch Gallery 4 (due to come out in October 2002)

protagonist/mascot of the Dr. Mario spin-off series, Dr. Mario 64 (April 2001 in North America), Dr. Mario (1989), added only to buff the roster

major character of the Star Fox series, Star Fox 64 (1997), Star Fox (1993), #1 in the Star Fox category with 7 votes, likely added to buff the roster in the first place

antagonist of the Zelda series, The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time (1998), #1 in the Zelda category with 36 votes on the Melee poll, added to buff the roster in the first place because Sakurai didn't plan to add him but eventually did so because he had a similar body build to Captain Falcon

protagonist/mascot of the Zelda series, The Legend of Zelda: Majora's Mask (2000), The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time (1998), #2 in the Zelda category with 8 votes on the Melee poll, most likely added to buff the roster

ichu: #1 mascot of Pokemon Gold/Silver (1999), most likely added to buff the roster

protagonist/mascot of Fire Emblem 6 (due to come out in March 2002), most likely added to advertise Fire Emblem 6 and to buff the roster

Super Smash Bros. Brawl came out in Japan on January 2008 and North America on March 2008. It was developed throughout 2006 and 2007.

major character and mascot of the Kirby series, Kirby & the Amazing Mirror (2004), Kirby: Nightmare in Dream Land (2002), possibly advertising Kirby Super Star Ultra (due to come out in September 2008), #3 in the Kirby category with 11 votes on the Melee poll

protagonist/mascot of the Kid Icarus series, Famicom Mini Series: Kid Icarus (2004, Japan only), Kid Icarus: Of Myths & Monsters (1991, North America only), #6 in the Other category with 5 votes on the Melee poll

protagonist/mascot of Metroid: Zero Mission (2004), an update on the "Justin Bailey" Samus from Metroid (1986)

protagonist/mascot of the Wario series, Wario: Master of Disguise (2007), WarioWare: Smooth Moves (2006), Super Mario 64 DS (2004), possibly advertising Wario Land: Shake It! (due to come out in July 2008) through Wario's alternate costume and victory music, #3 in the Mario category with 65 votes on the Melee poll

protagonist/mascot of the Metal Gear series, Metal Gear Solid: The Twin Snakes (2004, I am not counting Sony's release dates), added only because Kojima "practically begged" Sakurai to do so

protagonist/mascot of Fire Emblem: Path of Radiance (2005), also appears in Fire Emblem: Radiant Dawn (2007)

Red is the protagonist of Pokemon FireRed/LeafGreen (2004), the starter Pokemon are the mascots of the Pokemon series, #3 in the Pokemon category with 18 votes on the Melee poll

protagonist/mascot of the Donkey Kong series, Donkey Kong Barrel Blast (2007), Donkey Kong Country 2: Diddy's Kong Quest (Virtual Console, 2007), Donkey Kong Country (Virtual Console, 2006), #3 in the Rare category with 15 votes on the Melee poll (he is the only Donkey Kong character on the poll, that makes him #1 in the Donkey Kong category)

protagonist/mascot of Mother 3 (2006), originally planned to replace Ness in Melee but Mother 3 was cancelled at the time but Lucas finally got added since Mother 3 was finally released

protagonist/mascot of the Sonic series, Mario & Sonic at the Olympic Games (2007), most likely added due to fan demand

antagonist/mascot of the Kirby series, Kirby: Nightmare in Dream Land (2002), possibly advertising Kirby Super Star Ultra (due to come out in September 2008), #1 in the Kirby category with 46 votes on the Melee poll

protagonist/mascot of the Pikmin series, Pikmin 2 (2004), Pikmin (2001)

#1 mascot of Pokemon Diamond/Pearl (2006), star of the Lucario movie (2005)

peripheral used to play Gyromite (1985) and Stack-Up (1985), unlockable character in Mario Kart DS (2005)

protagonist/mascot of the Zelda series, The Legend of Zelda: Phantom Hourglass (2007), The Legend of Zelda: The Minish Cap (2004), The Legend of Zelda: The Wind Waker (2002), most likely added to replace Young Link

antagonist of the Star Fox series, Star Fox 64 (Virtual Console, 2007), Star Fox Command (2006), Star Fox Assault (2005), most likely added to buff the roster in the first place, #3 in the Star Fox category with 4 votes on the Melee poll

Almost all of the characters I listed above have been playable in their native games and that leads me to the conclusion: playable characters are more likely to become playable in Smash. Another conclusion is this: mascots and protagonists are more likely to become playable in Smash, especially when their games were recently released or will be released during the Smash development. So that is why I really think these following characters are very likely and could get in the SSB4 roster.

Dixie Kong - protagonist/mascot of the Donkey Kong series, Donkey Kong Barrel Blast (2007), Donkey Kong Country 3: Dixie Kong's Double Trouble (Virtual Console, 2007), Donkey Kong Country 2: Diddy's Kong Quest (Virtual Console, 2007), Sakurai might have considered adding Dixie Kong in Brawl so there is a possibility he would want to try adding her in SSB4

Isa - protagonist/mascot of Sin & Punishment 2 (2010), Saki was an Assist Trophy in Brawl (Isa is said to be Saki's son with Airan)

"Isaac" - protagonist/mascot of Golden Sun DS (2010), Isaac was an Assist Trophy in Brawl (the new protagonist really looks a lot like Isaac but with different clothes so that's why I gave him a temporary name "Isaac" before Nintendo tells us his official name)

King K. Rool - antagonist/mascot of the Donkey Kong series, Donkey Kong Barrel Blast (2007), Donkey Kong Country 3: Dixie Kong's Double Trouble (Virtual Console, 2007), Donkey Kong Country 2: Diddy's Kong Quest (Virtual Console, 2007)

Little Mac - protagonist/mascot of the Punch-Out!! series, Doc Louis's Punch-Out!! (2009), Punch-Out!! (2009), cameo in Captain Rainbow (2008), Assist Trophy in Brawl

Mega Man - protagonist/mascot of the Mega Man series, Mega Man 9 (2008), could get in due to fan demand like Sonic did in Brawl

Starfy -protagonist/mascot of the Starfy series, The Legendary Starfy (2009), Starfy was an Assist Trophy in Brawl

Takamaru - protagonist/mascot of Mysterious Murasame Castle (1986, Japan only), appears as a playable character in Samurai Warriors 3 (2009), cameo in Captain Rainbow (2008), Nazo no Murasamejou (Virtual Console, 2008), Sakurai did say that if Takamaru had a new game he would really consider adding him

Tingle - protagonist/mascot of the Tingle series, Ripening Tingle's Balloon Trip of Love (2009), Assist Trophy in Brawl

Toad - major character and mascot of the Mario series, New Super Mario Bros. Wii (2009) through Blue Toad and Yellow Toad, #4 in the Mario category with 27 votes on the Melee poll

 

[DekuBoy]

Nice post, but I think we knew most of that. On the Mother discussion: I think if it gets another character it should be Porky or Ninten.

 

[Arcadenik]

About misrepresentation, I remember about five years ago when my mom was babysitting two small kids and the boy was playing Melee with me. He absolutely loved playing as Roy and he asked me "Is Roy Marth's brother?" and I was not sure how to answer that but I simply told him "No, they are not brothers. They just come from the same game series." So the next time someone asks "Is Lucas Ness's brother?" Simply tell them "No, they are not brothers. They just come from the same game series."

There is no point in adding Porky or Masked Man in SSB4. The series is finished. How would adding Porky and/or Masked Man benefit the Mother series? I mean, adding Lucas to the roster was understandable since the series got a new game between Melee and Brawl so Lucas could at least attract potential fans to buy (or outside of Japan, steal) Mother 3. I think that Porky and Masked Man would overrepresent the series. Yes, they are both important but they aren't exactly the mascots of those games like Ness and Lucas are. And really, why Masked Man? He was in only one Mother game. At least Porky appeared in two Mother games - that's why it made sense for Porky to be the Mother boss in the Adventure Mode against both Ness and Lucas. And we don't really need Ninten since Ness is pretty much everything Ninten is, the names are pretty much the only difference between them.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

On the Mother discussion: I think if it gets another character it should be Porky or Ninten.

Well yeah, we all know Claus and Pokey are next in line (Ninten for Alt Costume) But It's just a matter on what the series is considered and for the most part, what sakurai thinks, especially since It's in a very awkward situation.

edit: for anyone who didn't read my last post, the discussion is really moreso over on it.

edit2: Arc, then that means you believe in the Evolving theory for the series, where Mother is treated similar to Fire Emblem and Pokemon in using only protagini...Do I have to really explain the difference?

 

[Jerome]

I feel Ninten should be in SSB4. Correct me if I'm wrong but like Marth Ninten was the first hero in the Mother series. To avoid confusion between Ninten and Ness Nintendo should change Ninten's appearance like they did with Zelda. Have all 3 main heros representing Mother would make sense imo.

 

[DerpDaBerp]

So, I didn't read the last 2000 pages....

Is there any even slight evidence that they'll ever actually make another smash?

 

[Big-Cat]

So, I didn't read the last 2000 pages....

Is there any even slight evidence that they'll ever actually make another smash?

Nothing's been said, but considering the success of the series itself, it's more than likely that it will happen. Now, will Sakurai take the helm, work with someone else, or someone succeeds Sakurai? I don't know.

 

[NeverFiniteX]

With all this Mother talk, I am rather concerned with the demand. Perhaps TTK can clarify, but I believe that Mother isn't that popular on its own that it would be necessary to hold up more than three spots.

*Whats up with all the Mother protagonists looking similar? Its as if the designers only had enough time pallete swap to differentiate between them or something.

Seeing as Ninten andd Ness (lol nintendo + NES) look exactly the same, perhaps that third spot should be reserved for one of the more dynamic characters within the series. Pokey holds promise in that regard because of that whol Doc Oct thing ^ and the Smash Franchise introduced him in the SSE (albeit somewhat limited).

 

[Big-Cat]

With all this Mother talk, I am rather concerned with the demand. Perhaps TTK can clarify, but I believe that Mother isn't that popular on its own that it would be necessary to hold up more than three spots.

Is it necessary? Maybe not. Can it happen? Yeah, and MOTHER has a fair number of characters that could be put in, unlike Metroid.

*Whats up with all the Mother protagonists looking similar? Its as if the designers only had enough time pallete swap to differentiate between them or something.

I can't explain this, but I don't think it was that considering the Earthbound and MOTHER were on different platforms. Lucas looks different enough. It might be something like a Link thing.

 

[TheMofologist]

Okay, so SSB is a fighting game, and whats the greatest thing everyone loves in a fighting game?

Combos!!!!! (SSB only does juggles)

So they should add in a lock-on feature. Once lock-on is enabled, your 1v1v1v1 matches all of a sudden turns into a 1v1 (not because the others lost all lives, or unless someone else gets caught in the spree) like a 1v1 match in like tekken. You move back and forth looking at the target you have lock-on to, but in hi-speed (you can chase the opponent if the get knocked away during a combo), and you can switch between the two features ( move freely and lock-on mode).

In lock-on mode you can now perform Epic combos, with intricate button pressing like (A,B,A,X,A etc..) yes this isnt the usual smash community but, think about it. You also have to worry about your other enemies (that you arent lock-on to) that can attack you from behind. Like from the early Naruto GNT series on the GCN Japan.

Imagine, combo-ing a guy that has terrible blocking and dodging skills, then once their damage is high, finish them with a finishing blow in free smash, which would K.O. them.

SSB would enter a new community and still traverse with the old. New gameplay never killed a game. And if you dont like the lock-on feature, you can decide before a match if you want it enable or disable it (local matches), but online will always be enable (to test true smashers).

Imagine the possibilities, new tourneys, new combo vids that would look amazing (switching between free smash and lock-on) and yes, different items would change the way the combos perform.

 

[ShinoandtheBallonFighter]

*Lurks in waiting for SmashChu*

While comboes would be nice, though I'm not feeling the whole lock-on thing, takes away from the party aspect of the game, Smash should retain it's core gameplay, just switch up the speed (preferably by means of some sort of meter, a la Toise's concept), while adding some new gameplay realated feautres.

 

[Big-Cat]

I appreciate your enthusiasm, especially with your first SSB4 post being on gameplay, However, I can't see such a thing ever working in Smash. For starters, Smash's combos pretty much are juggles, but not quite. Tekken's juggles are in a more ridged environment. Smash enjoys the massive freedom of movement and an emphasis on aerial attacks. So, for the most part, combos in Smash are air combos requiring you to be in the air. Tekken's juggles require you to be on the ground.

The target system could never work because the game can be a 4 player free for all. You'll have people using the system at the same time and that will probably create so some sort of run time error. Not only that, but this would probably mess up with the flow more so than something like cinematic final smashes.

Lastly, the intricate button combos won't happen. I can't see such a thing working in the series. If the series worked like Tekken, I can see it happening, but even that's a stretch. Not only that, but the community won't exactly embrace this.

Check the first link in my sig. You'll be greatly welcomed.

EDIT:
I've been thinking more about Toise's suggestion for speed options. I'm liking the idea, but I would much prefer that, by default, the game is faster than it is now. Other than that, it's a good idea.

Speaking of which, where are Chu and Toise? Is it the week before finals for them too?

 

[Jerome]

I got an idea how bout a new feature called the Perfect Smash? A Perfect Smash is a one hit knockout using the foward smash it only works when the crowd is chanting the fighters name AND the foward smash has to be sweetspotted. The only con is that there is only a 10% chance of the Perfect Smash working. Like most Final Smashes the camera will zoom toward the character doing the Perfect Smash just to make it look cooler. Oh! You can turn this feature off. So what do ya think?

 

[Big-Cat]

For characters with disjointed hit boxes, this would probably be broken.

 

[Planet Mars]

are they even making another game? If they are, i better find a forum that they actually read and post some ideas!

 

[Neo Exdeath]

are they even making another game?

Probably, as Smash is a cash cow for Nintendo.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

And really, why Masked Man? He was in only one Mother game.

For not just saying "Pokey is in that same game" Or anything of the sorts, I shall answer that for you:

Spoiler

Pretty much...I don't really know how to word it. Of all the villians, he just happens to stand out emotionally and overall a lot to Mother 3's story, pretty much the Giygas of Mother 1/2 with controlling the PigMask army. Infact, even Sakurai knows this as shown with Lucas's Trophy description. One of the songs in M3 (Apparently the main theme; Time Travelling in this thread ftw) is actually about him even. Even in the files (Of Mother 3, not brawl) there was a hidden boss fight which had him resemble in Claus's face as to Giygas...Which pretty much stresses how important he is in said plot and to the Mother series in general. So If he was put in, he would also "Represent" Giygas in an awkward way with the Anger and Hate etc.

I mean, just the fact that he's tossed around more than Ninten and Pokey as ideas combined should say a lot about his importance, similar to Krystal in a way I suppose. Not to say Pokey isn't important, but he just comes up at the end of them for the most part of both games and says "YEAH I HELPED THEM BOTH"

I feel Ninten should be in SSB4. Correct me if I'm wrong but like Marth Ninten was the first hero in the Mother series. To avoid confusion between Ninten and Ness Nintendo should change Ninten's appearance like they did with Zelda. Have all 3 main heros representing Mother would make sense imo.

It's not that Marth is the first one, It's that he's the face of the series (At least in japan) Similar to how Ike is in the US And partly japan.

To also add on, Ness was made to be the exact same person as Ninten, and until Ninten at least shows himself as alternative costume worthy, then I can't see where the support is coming from asides from "we needs to rep the other gaemz" Which If that's the case and It's treated as Evolving, just keep it to Ness and Lucas. (And a ninten costume)

With all this Mother talk, I am rather concerned with the demand. Perhaps TTK can clarify, but I believe that Mother isn't that popular on its own that it would be necessary to hold up more than three spots.

Since I go around forums to forum a lot and we're not really discussing outside the internet... This is discussing popularity FOR SMASH On the internet, not "How much I think said character will get in". thnx
Claus - Above Average
It's Above Average. Not really enough to get him in; He's on a lot of rosters. More than Pokey. But let us not be reminded people wanted Krystal over Wolf (Asides from the small minority that's myself) But with Mother not having an ignored focus in brawl, It's honestly not going to top that high until possibly a Smash 5 or when we actually get a Smash 4.

Another Mother Character - Above Average
This is also above the average. However, It's still mostly Claus with a bit of random ninten and party members thrown on.

Pokey - Not that Good
I haven't even seen many requests for him even on Starmen. It's not near rock bottom unlike a lot of other characters but If you're expecting him to get in on this, don't even try.

However, to contrary that, Lucas wasn't widely requested. I saw a lot of random Mother 2 party members, Flint, and Claus at a later point. So another character could get in If the popularity stays up and the series is denied It's focus next time around or so.

Speaking of which, where are Chu and Toise? Is it the week before finals for them too?

And FMOI For that matter. I saw Chu lurking this thread a few times. I've actually been busy too and have been doing a lot of computer hopping

the crowd is chanting the fighters name

...And that's when you know your idea needs to be fixed.

are they even making another game?

Info and past info seems to be pointing to a "Yes"

 

[ShinoandtheBallonFighter]

@TreKoops
Are you saying Claus and Random Party Member are Above Average for getting in, or getting in if Mother gets another Rep?

 

[Thirdkoopa]

@TreKoops
Are you saying Claus and Random Party Member are Above Average for getting in, or getting in if Mother gets another Rep?

No, I'm saying how high there requests levels are.

Honestly, discussing supporting characters, the only ones I have any stock into above others with series are Metroid (...Do I need to explain this one?) DK, and F-Zero. Oh and Pokemon and Fire Emblem but you might as well play darts and gamble with dice to find out which ones he'll pick.

 

[ShinoandtheBallonFighter]

ok then...Request levels for Smash or Request levels for Mother Reps

 

[Thirdkoopa]

ok then...Request levels for Smash or Request levels for Mother Reps

Request levels on each one for Smash, on the internet of course. I reviewed general mother reps too because of the whole thing that happened with Lucas.

This is all kinda funny how this discussion started on Alter-Ego's/Costumes. I have a gimp project with that coming up soon and later tonight I'll finally post my 100 AT Ideas list.

 

[n88]

@TreKoops

Claus is fairly popular on the internet, yes. Outside of the internet, not so much. Very, very few people know anything about Mother, and that's including the ones who play Smash. I vividly remember one of my friends telling me that Ness was actually an alien disguised as a human boy. People don't really know much about Mother.
(Not really some massive counterpoint or anything. Just reminding you that if there was a good way to conduct a poll w/o internet, Claus would score a bit worse)

 

[Big-Cat]

@TreKoops

Claus is fairly popular on the internet, yes. Outside of the internet, not so much. Very, very few people know anything about Mother, and that's including the ones who play Smash. I vividly remember one of my friends telling me that Ness was actually an alien disguised as a human boy. People don't really know much about Mother.
(Not really some massive counterpoint or anything. Just reminding you that if there was a good way to conduct a poll w/o internet, Claus would score a bit worse)

It doesn't help that Nintendo's screwed us over several times with the MOTHER series. Just imagine what might have happened if MOTHER was released in the US and Europe back in 1990. For all we know, MOTHER might have become Nintendo's answer to Final Fantasy and Dragon Quest.

 

[n88]

@Kuma

Perhaps. Hard to tell.

@Everyone

Good news/Bad news time

Bad News: embarrass:embarrass I accidentally deleted my poll. embarrass

Good News: I'm recreating it, so if you though there was a character missing that should have been on the poll, you can now make yourself heard. Also good if you changed your mind about who you wanted to vote for.

 

[ToiseOfChoice]

EDIT:
I've been thinking more about Toise's suggestion for speed options. I'm liking the idea, but I would much prefer that, by default, the game is faster than it is now. Other than that, it's a good idea.

Speaking of which, where are Chu and Toise? Is it the week before finals for them too?

I'm not a student, but I have been very busy. Plus this thread has a tendency to get too ******** to post in (and I'm really REALLY sick of Mother).

And I'd really recommend leaving the default speed as it is. New players aren't probably gonna fiddle with the options right away, whereas people like you and I would know exactly what to do to adjust it.

 

[Big-Cat]

And I'd really recommend leaving the default speed as it is. New players aren't probably gonna fiddle with the options right away, whereas people like you and I would know exactly what to do to adjust it.

Why would you leave the speed as it is? A common criticism is that it's too slow for a number of people; floaty's another complaint, but that's for another place and another time. At the same time, I'm not talking about making it so fast that it's unmanageable unless you're a pro. Just enough to keep matches tense and entertaining to spectators.

 

[ToiseOfChoice]

Because it's the default, not the only level of speed. If you have a speed switch, the people who complained about the game being too slow (which by the way, is a very small group of people) have nothing to worry about. It'd be like complaining that the default difficulty setting is easy instead of hard.

You want a default that caters to people who haven't played before. People who haven't played before unquestionably want the game to be slow enough so they can understand what's happening.

 

[Big-Cat]

You want a default that caters to people who haven't played before. People who haven't played before unquestionably want the game to be slow enough so they can understand what's happening.

Let me ask you this? What would be TOO slow?

By the way, the way you worded your last sentence implies that people in general, not necessarily everyone, would want the game to be slow when they're going in for the first time. Unless there are statistics that are available to support this, I think you might be approaching this the wrong way.

Keeping the speed slow isn't always the answer. I think it's more important to understand the mechanics and whatnot in isolation. Basically, this means giving the player a choice to undergo a warm up. Yesterday, I downloaded the Bayonetta demo on XBOX Live. If I didn't have the little warm up with the tutorial in order to learn the basics of the fighting system and practice a few times for evading before fighting a bunch of angels, my *** would have been kicked in 12 different ways.

In Smash terms, this would learning how to do Special moves, tilts, Smashes, and, maybe, taunts. All the stuff shown in the in-game tutorials. You just have three to four things to worry about. After that, you know the basics. Bayonetta was the same in that I learned about four basic things to get me started.

Yes, this implies that you would need to go into training mode, but I believe that if you want to go in knowing what you're doing in, you should warm up a little bit before going for the first time.

 

[ToiseOfChoice]

I hope you realize you're essentially defending something as trivial as a higher temperature on the thermostat of a new house when you first walk in. Or having the toilet seat up instead of down.

Yes, slower speed in general IS ideal for new players. That's what you do with anything the first time someone picks it up, you keep it easy and simple. I honestly can't even believe you're suggesting that this might not be the case because it's such a basic concept for designing anything and everything.

 

[Big-Cat]

Yes, slower speed in general IS ideal for new players. That's what you do with anything the first time someone picks it up, you keep it easy and simple. I honestly can't even believe you're suggesting that this might not be the case because it's such a basic concept for designing anything and everything.

Look, all I'm saying is that there is more than one way to approach this which you don't seem to understand.

Yes, I could go ahead and go into a slow game when I'm starting a game for the first time, OR I can go ahead, learn the mechanics and controls, and then go into the game at its default speed.

Here's a real life experience for you. Today, I went into a soccer game not knowing much of what I was supposed to do since I'm not used to team sports (I'm more of a martial arts guy) along with all the strategy involved in the game. If the game was moving slowly, I would've gotten bored. If I learned the rules and had some tips, among other things, I would've had an easier time getting into the game.

 

[Tangerine]

May as well throw my two cents in...

-In regards to adding new characters, I think there should definitely be an emphasis on the more 'successful' of Nintendo's franchises, mainly Mario, Zelda and Pokemon.

-The Mario franchise would benefit from another two characters, and one of them will likely Bowser Jr, as he's been the most prominent antagonist in the Mario games lately. The second is really up for debate, but I'd personally think Rosalina would make a GREAT addition. One reason is pretty obvious: there is a lack of female characters in this game, and Rosalina would add in nicely. She could play similarly to Peach, but would be heavier, stronger, and could have projectiles in the form of stars. She doesn't have an umbrella, but you could add a bunch of 'space' themed moves for her.

-My personal hopefuls for Zelda are Wolf link and Toon Zelda/Tetra, complete with a 'swordified' Ganon.

-Pokemon neeeeds Mewtwo back. There was absolutely no reason to replace him with Lucario; the developers should just blend the best elements of the two and make him stronger. The two characters that should be added could be anything, really. Pokemon Trainer works well as he is, but there's nothing wrong with adding a different team. Piplup, Bayleef and Blaziken come to mind, since they can play exactly like their replacements (Piplup+Bayleef) or similarly (Blaziken). Other than that I don't care, anything would work well, but Deoxys would be AWESOME, especially with it's many forms.

-King K. Rool representing Donkey Kong. So many great choices from the franchise, though. It'd be neat to see some of the animals from DKC as assist trophies.
-Ridley for Metroid, please. The resizing thing shouldn't be a problem, especially since Olimar is like 2 centimeters tall, and Bowser stands 12 feet tall, yet Bowser only looks a little bit taller than Olimar in the game.

-Samurai Goroh for F-Zero and Krystal for Star Fox. This seems to be unanimous amongst pretty much everyone, anyway.

-All other Franchises are okay imo, Knuckle Joe for Kirby maybe.

Throw in:
Issac
Megaman (classic, with powerups. The possibilities are infinite)
Knuckles

AND:

-Better online
-slightly faster gameplay
-include all stages in every smash game beforehand
-include all past music as well
-leaderboard
-trophy lottery
-bring back board the platforms
-no more stickers; make CD's easier to get and not such a random event
-make it say 'game set' at the end of matches, again. It sounds cooler =)

 

[furyberserk]

SSB4 is something I wouldn't want to see, but if I had to suggest something, it would have to be a shield burst holding down the shield and pressing B. The Shield and A is grab, why not a burst that does no damage, but stuns your opponent, but at the cost of destroying your own shield completely. By that I mean, your shield will regenerate, but during the 3 seconds your opponent would be stunned, your shield won't regenerate and you get instantly shield broken. Also in the air after air dodging, there could be an air throw but that would be kinda lame going by the current metagame because truthfully, if there aren't more than one air throw then it would be too DBZish taking away from the smash feeling. At least but in the ability to fastfall when doing a B attack again unlike brawl where you can't and melee where you can. Have brawl like combos, combos that are so specific you would have no choice but to repeat which like brawl mostly and melee slightly and 64 almost never to always, should be a given.

Make the game so that going by tiers, everyone are about the same, except for falcon, keep is ****** taunts, phrases, look. Maybe not the scarf, but hey, its just an opinion.

People say brawl is a different game than melee, but no-one ever considers that with 64, so I suggest making is so that it is somewhere in between. Keep the speed, keep the cool attacks, take away some lag, add the ability to combo, but also hard to set up for a combo. Hard to edgeguard but not impossible.

But seriously, I would suggest the shield burst more than anything. Or some risky as heck lag remover that makes you loose half your lag but takes twice the damage after the air shield burst or something.

Sorry if I was ranting, but I'm kinda irritated.

Hurray for Super Smash Brothers Finality.

 

[Pieman0920]

I could probably argue some more, but having a day and a half so of distractions has put me under in the mindset that I don't really want to argue about Mother any more. So while I still don't agree with you (especially the incredibly flawed/bad concept of all series needing to be "balanced" out) you win this one Koopa, since I no longer wish to fight. :V

In regards to Mother in a alternate world being something along the lines of FF or DQ, I sorta doubt it given how offbeat it is. It could possibly be as popular as M&L or so, but who knows.

And in regards to a speed switch, I can't help but think that it may not turn out as well as hoped. The thing is that even if the speed switch could be set up like items, so that it would just start up with the desired level when you start up the game, I would think there would be fissures in the fanbase as to what speed the game would be set at. To that end I think that when it comes to game speeds it would be better to have only 3 or 5 options at most, with 3 being better in my eyes.

 

[Big-Cat]

In regards to Mother in a alternate world being something along the lines of FF or DQ, I sorta doubt it given how offbeat it is. It could possibly be as popular as M&L or so, but who knows.

Well, it's very difficult to figure out what might have happened exactly. MOTHER came from the 8-bit era, the era where several different iconic series started out and influenced videogames in the future. For all we know, we might have had more off beat RPGs if it had been successful. Think what might have happened had Zelda never left Japan.

 

[Pieman0920]

Well several other series died there as well. I really don't think Mother 1 would have had any different effect than Earthbound did at its time unless the game was profoundly promoted more. Perhaps if Nintendo tried to sell it as a big series back then and tried to get it onto something like Captain N, it would have fared better. (Then again, Kid Icarus...)

And Zelda's not really that off beat.

 

[Big-Cat]

Well several other series died there as well. I really don't think Mother 1 would have had any different effect than Earthbound did at its time unless the game was profoundly promoted more. Perhaps if Nintendo tried to sell it as a big series back then and tried to get it onto something like Captain N, it would have fared better. (Then again, Kid Icarus...)

And Zelda's not really that off beat.

Actually, NOA had a lot of advertising and a diary guide ready for the game. They were expecting this to become a big cash cow. Supposedly, they even planned to bring over the OST to the US as well. BTW, Captain N wouldn't happen considering that it would have come out around the end of the NES' lifespan.

I was not saying Zelda is off beat. I'm just asking you to imagine what might have happened had Zelda never become big because it never left Japan.

 

[Pieman0920]

Is that so? Well I wasn't quite sure on the time frame there. In any case, if Nintendo really did put that much effort into it, I think then that its a fairly good indication that it was never meant to be.

But I guess things would be different if Zelda never got released outside of Japan, but I would assume that any major gameplay changes it brought would be carried over to America through other games that started to borrow from it.