[Official SSB4 Discussion] --- Nintendo announces 2 new Smash games!

[Big-Cat]

I think Melee tried something similar, describing character attributes and specials in the trophies. This was cut from Brawl, if I'm not mistaken.

I wouldn't mind if something like that appears in SSB4, though.

Melee's trophies were a start, but I'd like something you could access in battle, or more importantly, in training mode.

 

[Hyesz]

^

Not like it doesn't take about 3 seconds to figure out what all your specials do.

 

[n88]

@SmashChu

I'd like to add that BJ has 25 votes in my poll currently, putting him in a tie for seventh most wanted character. The poll isn't huge yet, but that's a far cry from nobody liking him.

 

[DekuBoy]

Hey n88 post me a link and I'll bring your poll to the Nuke Bros forums.

Also Kuma: NO. I hate those lists. Maybe in SF they work but Smash Bros is a whole different ballpark. Pausing in itself ruins the flow of battle.

 

[ScoobyCafe]

Koopalings are far more iconic than Bowser Junior.

Nope.

It's called Super Mario World.

Yeah, the game is iconic.

Edit: Wait a second, who gives a crap? Bowser is way more pro anyway fgts.

Exactly.

Unless you do a poll, there is no source, but you can tell from fans reactions. There was a lot of excitement after E3 when people found out you could fight the Koppalings. As I said, a lot of members on VgChartz made their avatars on of the Koppalings. I've never seen Bowser Jr. be an avatar.

Because people on VgChartz obviously represents what most people think, amirite?

While the italics is kind of true, these games and developers end up running into problems. Malstrom (who I quote a lot) has criticized Nintendo of making gams they want, which is why we Galazy 2 and Other M rather then Kid Icarus or Starfox. I mean, it was 19 years since a 2D Mario game was on a console, despite they sells over 10 million.

I'm still waiting for my F-Zero Wii. =(

Lastly, you can not force a character to be iconic. They usually get stuck where they are. If people who nothing of the Koppalings (as a lot of younger fans don't) begin to like them more then Bowser Jr, then you'll see him start taking a back set to them. As I mentioned earlier, a man said his children didn't like Bowser Jr. that much, but the Koppaling were an instant hit when they played Super Mario Bros 3.

You can indeed make a character iconic. People become icons, they aren't born iconic. I don't understand the "they usually get stuck" bit, so I hope you could clear that up for me.

And we shouldn't talk hypothetically, here. Sure, those kids may not like him, but I could say that for that one group of kids, three more groups embrace Bowser Jr.

Bowser Jr. was always disliked. Most people find him as an irrelevant character. Younger fans only see him as important because they started around the same time as when he was introduced. He's a weak villain because there is nothing menacing about him. He's just a brat, and it shows as he's rarely a boss. The Koppalings were still seen as a threat as they turned the kings into animals and commanded a huge airship. They were also fights in the very beginning, were Bowser Jr. didn't become a boss until New Super Mario Bros (and even then, he was just a mid boss).

"Bowser Jr. was always disliked," by nostalgists who couldn't stand the fact that he convincingly took the spot light from them [Koopalings]. Meanwhile, the continually growing newer players have no beef with Bowser Jr., probably why he's appearing in so many games.

Older fans have always liked the Koppalings as they at least posed a threat and had their own unique personalities. This is why they can so easily be brought back with so few changes. The thing is, you probably don't hear from many older fans, so you never know how they act. My friends thought it was cool that they were back, and these guys played the old school Mario games. Like I posted, the father thought Bowser Jr. was the worst Nintendo villain and his kids immediately took to the Koppalings.

Cool story, bro.

I doubt either will be playable, but it is very important to note that Bowser Jr. wasn't even in Brawl save for a Trophy. Waluigi was an assist instead. Heck, people actually want to see Waluigi in his own game. I have never heard anyone say the same thing for Bowser Jr.

So what are you saying, that Waluigi stands a better chance of being playable than Bowser Jr.?

 

[ShinoandtheBallonFighter]

You're gonna have to fill me in on some of these super hard ones you're talking about, I usually don't leave the Smash Workshop. From the sounds of it though, these shouldn't be there in the first place.

Now if these super crazy ATs you're talking about are inevitable as dust on fancy furniture, then meh, that's that. The mere existence of these things are the main reason we'd have a wider gap in skill, not the simplification of the game itself. If there are people with the drive to win by any means, then they will discover and use those means.

Can't get rid of the drive to win, so get rid of the ridiculous means. If you can't get rid of the means, then try to downplay them or focus on something else.




Are you bothered by stuff like motion controls and the mere option for super easy mode? If you are, then yeah, you've got a good reason to worry. If you're not, then you're scared over nothing (which is why I'm calling it silly).

If there are any games that bother you that way (including future games), lemme know.

Well first the thing I was trying to point out was that in melee, personal AT's (The harder to leanr and utilize) weren't as prevalant, because the universal AT's like Wavedash or Dash Dancing were useable. The latter group are easier to do (compared to the personal ones in Brawl) and provide and are more accessible by more people.

In Brawl, the "simpler" game, the latter group were removed, so a greater foucs was placed ont he less accesible techniques in the former group. These Techniques are harder to learn (for the most part) and ar eless accessible by a wider group.


And as for my "fear" I am not a huge fan of the motion sensory, I felt both Galaxy, Mario Kart Wii, and Twilight Princess were the worst games in their respective series to date, and have't found a whole lot of intresing/ good games outside a few others. While others may not feel this way (and many feel quite to the contrary) you asked my personal opinion, and their it is.

@Koopaling/ Bowser Junior
Alls I'm gonna say is that the Koopalings are more icnonic unless your too young to remember them, and if they could be implemented well, they should be immidatly (the first new Mario rep suggestion I actually fully support)

 

[Big-Cat]

Hey n88 post me a link and I'll bring your poll to the Nuke Bros forums.

Also Kuma: NO. I hate those lists. Maybe in SF they work but Smash Bros is a whole different ballpark. Pausing in itself ruins the flow of battle.

Just to clarify, this was intended for beginners who'd probably pause the game anyway when they're lost. I would hardly use it except when I'm learning a character. It's just an quick reference beginners can use.

 

[n88]

Hey n88 post me a link and I'll bring your poll to the Nuke Bros forums.

Unofficial SSB4 Character Poll
Tell them to comment with who they voted for if they vote for other.
Thanks for helping out!

And as for the whole "Iconic" deal...I don't think it really matters. Bowser Jr. is essentially, a new Koopaling. He's not completely separate, like people seem to think. He's the only one of the Koopalings to stand above the others, is the most popular, and is the most logical for inclusion. The original Koopalings would make fantastic SSE enemies, IMO.

As for somehow incorporating all seven of Bowser's original children into one set...I don't see it happening.

 

[Pieman0920]

Was I requested to do a moveset for Bowser Jr.? I guess I've got something in mind, but I'm not in a situation where I can write one out right now.

In regards to the Koopalings, I like the original 7 more than Bowser Jr., but its just not feasible to actually add them all in. Personally I think Ludwig stands out as the leader, but in the end pretty much all of them are on equal footing, and thus there's no right pick among them. Bowser Jr. though stands above them as an individual, and recently has shown up in several major mainstream Mario games. He's the popular one now, and he's the one that would be turned into a fighter. Really how could you even do the seven Koopalings justice in one moveset?

 

[Mr. Johan]

If anything, the Koopalings would get representation in SSB4, as fighters, if Bowser Jr.'s alternate costumes imitate their color schemes. A brown face with a star marking would represent Morton Jr., blue hair represents Ludwig, a pink shell represents Roy, and so on. But that's assuming Bowser Jr. gets in anyway. I wouldn't be surprised if they get trophies next game though, given their recent surge in NSMBWii.

 

[NeverFiniteX]

Good going Cafe, I don't even need to respond to Chu, what you said was pretty much what I was going to say anyway.


Ok so: Mario (1) Luigi (2) Peach (3) Bowser (4) Yoshi (5) Toad (6) Jr. (7) Wario (8) Geno (9)

Nine Characters from the Mario franchise?! I think adding Toad should be the limit to characters from Mario. Seeing as Wario usually does his own thing, we can set him aside, working with 8, 7, or 6 .

Sorry guys, I just don't see Geno's inclusion happening.

So in that case, Toad comes out from under Peach's dress?

http://images.uncyc.org/pt/thumb/a/...wl.jpg/800px-Peach_Super_Smash_Bros_Brawl.jpg

Or does it still remain the toad is just a generic servant? Kind of like how Yoshi just stands for all the Yoshi's? I'm sure it could work somehow, but I think you've got a lot more to choose from movesetwise when you stick with the antagonists (Jr. and borrowed moves from the Koopalings).

 

[smashplayer16]

How about a bigger skill gap so the game actually takes practice and dedication to get good.

Also one of the things that was a big letdown for me in Brawl was the online. I was expecting an online experience like XBOX Live-Halo2. Back then in 2006 when Brawl was announced I was thinking, "the Halo community got their game online, having a good time with voice chat, and all of those great things. Im thinking the Smash community was going to get the exact same thing, but Smash; you know having a variety of choices to choose from. Choosing to play 1 on 1s, team games, Free for Alls, and other different gametypes. I basically wanted the game to have a great online community experience.

Did I mention that I hope that the skill gap increases so that the game actually takes practice and dedication to get good at.I know I asked this question before; If you all had to pick between melee or 64 gameplay for the next smashbros, or some sort of a mix like I expected Brawl to be, what would you guys choose?

Also does the Smash community have an ambassador, that can go to Nintendo and pitch some of these ideas. Seems like we need to get some people from the community to work for "Sora" or whoever is making the next Smash, so we can get some good ideas through to them.

 

[Mowrt620]

The online might have not been good, but it was their first shot at it. Now that they've built the table, adding to it is in for the next game. Now that they have something to work with, it'll probably be good...

 

[Big-Cat]

SmashChu has a new friend!

As for an ambassador, we have nothing like the SF players do with Seth Killian who actually works at Capcom. If we did, we would at least have a better roster.

 

[smashplayer16]

I posted this in another thread;

4 versus 4 Capture the Flag idea
http://i645.photobucket.com/albums/uu173/Nevigrof/SSB4undergroundmaze.jpg

http://i645.photobucket.com/albums/uu173/Nevigrof/SSB4super_smash_bros_melee_race.gif

One of the reason's Nintendo isn't listening to the community is probably because Sakurai intended the game to be played casually. We mine as well make are own Smashbros. game.

 

[NeverFiniteX]

@SmashPlayer16
This interview might clear up some of the reasons that Smash Online will never be like Halo Online. I never thought of having a bigger map for more than four players, but then Smash will be more like other games and I want to buy smash for its uniqueness.

http://wii.ign.com/articles/853/853748p1.html

My dissapointment was that there was no 1v1 only or that you couldn't have a two people on one wii for 2v2 teams. There is a lot that you can do in this route. I figure that a smash game with some of the online specs that people want will (most likely) be on the next nintendo console because of all the limitations that Wii online currently has. I do think it should be possible to have a 'gamertag' of sorts and that this name is visible to other players. Just think of how well Microsoft does with this feature, it is a pretty awesome to have multiple accounts on one console. It might be ok if the competative 'mode' doesn't have a voicechat section, and the casual modes do (but only during the training session before the match starts). Still then, someone can always mute.The whole Friend Code, Brawl Code ordeal is rather complicated.

 

[n88]

Did I mention that I hope that the skill gap increases so that the game actually takes practice and dedication to get good at.I know I asked this question before; If you all had to pick between melee or 64 gameplay for the next smashbros, or some sort of a mix like I expected Brawl to be, what would you guys choose?

I thought we had seen the end of this argument for a while...

@NeverFinite

I imagine the Mario heirarchy would look more like this:

(1)Mario
(2)Luigi
(3)Bowser-Yoshi-DK
(6)Peach-Wario
(8)Bowser Jr.-Toad

With everyone else being too insignificant to register.

 

[smashplayer16]

Get some characters in this game that haven't had their game represented.

Saki from "Sin and Punishment"

Lil Mac from "Punch Out"

One of the characters from advance wars.

 

[Pieman0920]

Four vs four capture the flag....hmm, I'm not sure if that could really work given how Smash works. Maybe its because I actually don't play many FPSs, but wouldn't the offensive side have a larger advantage than the defensive?

 

[Thirdkoopa]

Good going Cafe, I don't even need to respond to Chu, what you said was pretty much what I was going to say anyway.

Cafe may come in sometimes at random times, but he really can make a good point.

Ok so: Mario (1) Luigi (2) Peach (3) Bowser (4) Yoshi (5) Toad (6) Jr. (7) Wario (8) Geno (9)

Nine Characters from the Mario franchise?! I think adding Toad should be the limit to characters from Mario. Seeing as Wario usually does his own thing, we can set him aside, working with 8, 7, or 6 .

You also forgot DK, as similar to toad and bowser jr, most of there appearences are in spin-offs. :V If we're talking main mario series, currently (Unless toad appears more with a role like in nsmbwii) It'd be Jr > Toad.

Regardless over who, point is that It's not really misrepresentation of the series with or without them (Toad and Jr) - I don't really know what to call it, so I'll let toise come up with it. (If he's not mariosick)

The online might have not been good, but it was their first shot at it. Now that they've built the table, adding to it is in for the next game. Now that they have something to work with, it'll probably be good...

After hearing his reasoning for no rankings, I personally think someone should write a wall and a tl;dr version of what to fix and then get a bunch of fan support running rapid. Fan support added wi-fi in the first place.

I'm still waiting for my F-Zero Wii. =(

F-Zero Wii: Get ready to Rage...
...Online!

I posted this in another thread;

4 versus 4 Capture the Flag idea

Great, but resize that please.

One of the reason's Nintendo isn't listening to the community is probably because Sakurai intended the game to be played casually. We mine as well make are own Smashbros. game.

A roster everyone will agree on?

Yeah, that's never going to happen. Just to start the list there.

Get some characters in this game that haven't had their game represented.

Saki from "Sin and Punishment"

Lil Mac from "Punch Out"

One of the characters from advance wars.

Lacks golden sun, other then that, yes.

 

[Neo Exdeath]

4 vs 4 capture the flag sounds like fun to me. Considering the way smash acts, it might just work.

Also, why is the page stretched? That image wasn't that big.

 

[n88]

@thirdkoopa

Actually, online was planned from the get-go, back when Brawl was planned as a launch title for Wii.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

Also, why is the page stretched? That image wasn't that big.

This monitor sucks.

@thirdkoopa

Actually, online was planned from the get-go, back when Brawl was planned as a launch title for Wii.

Odd, I remembered FMOI Saying how online was also triggered by fan request or something of similar wording

Regardless: We should really get specific on requests with online, or they'll just think "Better online? K, there's rankings. Done" Or something along the lines of that.

 

[n88]

@thirdkoopa

Well, it may have been triggered by Melee fans... I think specific requests would probably be a good idea, but I'm not the rant type. All I'd really like to see is less lag.

 

[ScoobyCafe]

F-Zero Wii: Get ready to Rage...
...Online!

OMG, the things I'd do for an F-Zero with 16-player races online. God dammit, Nintendo, give Mario a break!

Also, why is the page stretched? That image wasn't that big.

Why is there 1901 pages when there's really only 1899 (Still unsure if I'm the only one seeing this)?

Regardless: We should really get specific on requests with online, or they'll just think "Better online? K, there's rankings. Done" Or something along the lines of that.

Now I know people don't like others mentioning anything Street Fighter here, but on the topic of online, it needs to be done.

... I hope Sakurai sees this and seriously crank out some high grade goodies for SSB4 online-wise; by that I mean plenty modes and maybe some online specific games, like smashplayer16's idea. I don't think fixing the lag is gonna be enough next time around.

But yeah, I want to bring up Goroh one more time. I don't think I'm gonna have a moveset to show you guys today, but do any of you object to him being a type of grappling, wrestling smasher with one or two sword attacks?

 

[n88]

@Scooby

Actually, I go 30 posts a page, so I allegedly have 951 pages. But really, there's only 950.

*Resigns from F-Zero discussion due to never having touched F-Zero in his entire life*

 

[ScoobyCafe]

^ This isn't the first time I'm seeing this error either, it's been there since the day I registered. Funny how no one fixed it yet. At least now I know I'm not the only one.

And you really don't need to know a single thing about F-Zero to make a moveset, since, like C.Falcon, Goroh's moves are gonna be made out of scratch. =)

 

[SmashChu]

Nope.

Yeah, the game is iconic.

First, RIGHT off the bat, the replies are sub par at best.

If the game is iconic, so is the content that makes up said game. Naturally, so are the Koppalings, along with power-ups like the Tanooki Suit and locations like Huge World.

Because people on VgChartz obviously represents what most people think, amirite?

It's called an example. Seeing as I'm the only one who ever brings any of these to the table, it's hard for me, or any onlookers, to agree with your point.

You can indeed make a character iconic. People become icons, they aren't born iconic. I don't understand the "they usually get stuck" bit, so I hope you could clear that up for me.

The point is you can not force an icon. People become icons, but there were never so by being forced into it. This is what Nintendo has been doing with Bowser Jr.

And we shouldn't talk hypothetically, here. Sure, those kids may not like him, but I could say that for that one group of kids, three more groups embrace Bowser Jr.

In other words, ignore what has been mentioned and KEEP ON TRUCKIN'

"Bowser Jr. was always disliked," by nostalgists who couldn't stand the fact that he convincingly took the spot light from them [Koopalings]. Meanwhile, the continually growing newer players have no beef with Bowser Jr., probably why he's appearing in so many games.

Not many people like him. I've never heard anyone get excited when he showed up in Sunshine. No one thought it was cool that he was in any other game either.

Cool story, bro.

Not a point.

So what are you saying, that Waluigi stands a better chance of being playable than Bowser Jr.?

Yes. Very much so.

I tend to look at sites with an older audience (like VGchartz and 4chan). Thing thing is most older fans tend to hate, dislike, or not care about Bowser Jr. Waluigi is really an underdog in their eyes because they want Nintendo to put him in a game. He was hated before, but people are warming up too him. People aren't doing the same for Bowser Jr, despite the fact he is in all the main Mario games and not Waluigi.

Kids like Bowser Jr. only because they know nothing else. The post about the children was important as it showed that kids, despite having seen Bowser Jr first, like the Koppalings more.

Go here and you can kind of see the problem. Reactions are mixed, but it's to the point where someone had to make an article to defend him.

 

[Big-Cat]

First, RIGHT off the bat, the replies are sub par at best.

I could say yours are no better.

It's called an example. Seeing as I'm the only one who ever brings any of these to the table, it's hard for me, or any onlookers, to agree with your point.

Your case would be more convincing if you mentioned more than one website and using avatars as measurement of popularity.

The point is you can not force an icon. People become icons, but there were never so by being forced into it. This is what Nintendo has been doing with Bowser Jr.

Do you have evidence that Nintendo is trying to do so? He's a character that debuted in a main Mario game. I suppose if Rosalina shows up in more spinoffs, you'll say they're forcing her to become iconic.

Not many people like him. I've never heard anyone get excited when he showed up in Sunshine. No one thought it was cool that he was in any other game either.

It's kind of hard to be excited for a character when he shows up halfway in the game and wasn't known before hand. Again, you're using extreme phrases like "no one." It makes your argument less convincing.

I guess in the end, like Krystal, he has many fans as haters.

 

[Arcadenik]

This is how I see in terms of importance in terms of the story. I doubt you would agree with any of these but here you go.

1. Mario
2. Luigi
3. Bowser
4. Peach
5. Donkey Kong (he ranks higher than Bowser Jr. due to the fact he is the second most recurring villain after Bowser thanks to the Mario vs. Donkey Kong series and his own spin-off series)
6. Bowser Jr.
7. Toadsworth
8. Yoshi (Yoshi isn't that important in the Mario games since he is always a rideable character but he still ranks higher than Toad due to the fact he has his own spin-off series)
9. Toad
10. Wario (he ranks lower than Toad because really, when was the last time we saw any sort of rivalry between him and Mario in main games? Exactly, only SML3)

11. Baby Mario
12. Baby Luigi
13. Kamek
14. Toad Brigade (including Blue Toad and Yellow Toad)
15. Baby Bowser
16. Koopalings
17. King Boo
18. Petey Piranha
19. Rosalina
20. Pauline
21. Mini-Mario
22. Fawful
23. Baby Peach
24. Birdo
25. Donkey Kong Jr.
26. Daisy
27. Baby Donkey Kong
28. Baby Wario
30. Toadette
32. Waluigi
33. Baby Daisy

Everyone else, including Geno, are pretty much in the bottom of the barrel due to the fact they are all one shot characters.

 

[SmashChu]

I could say yours are no better.

It only takes a sentence to refute those point. The same can also be said about these as they will also take few words to refute as well.

Your case would be more convincing if you mentioned more than one website and using avatars as measurement of popularity.

Some evidence is better then none, but hey, I did post another site.

Do you have evidence that Nintendo is trying to do so? He's a character that debuted in a main Mario game. I suppose if Rosalina shows up in more spinoffs, you'll say they're forcing her to become iconic.

It forgot to say "for the purpose of this conversation," because that was how it was going.

It's kind of hard to be excited for a character when he shows up halfway in the game and wasn't known before hand. Again, you're using extreme phrases like "no one." It makes your argument less convincing.

People were excited for the final boss fight, and that was last minute. Bowser Jr. also was known to be in Galaxy for a while, yet no one cared.

I guess in the end, like Krystal, he has many fans as haters.

The problem is that Krystal has passionate fans. Everyone is cold on Bowser Jr. Entertainment is all about passion, so Krystal can fit the bill better.

Also, Krystal is only hated because furries exist. Most of her hate is because people hate furries.

I won't talk much else about him as I already made my point clear. Not much reason to talk about him.

 

[Fatmanonice]

This monitor sucks.


Odd, I remembered FMOI Saying how online was also triggered by fan request or something of similar wording
.

It pretty much was. Iwata said at E3 05 at the next Smash Bros game would have wifi despite the game not even beginning development until October 2005. In "Sakurai's journal" that was posted shortly after E3 2006, he still talked about whether or not they were even going to attempt putting in online because, according to him, it was going to be extremelly difficult for a game like Smash Bros. At the time, he seemed to be leaning towards no because it was such a big obstacle to overcome given the Wii's limited wifi capabilities. With that being said, I think that the extremelly high fan demand made him change his mind.

Add in:

Regarding Bowser Jr, I don't really care for the idea because I don't trust the developers enough with him to make him unique. Basically, I see him basically being Bowser's answer to Link's Toon Link. He has stuff to make him unique but I seriously doubt that the developers would make it a priority and I can kind of see him as one of those characters that's added at the last minute to bolster the final roster.

 

[ShinoandtheBallonFighter]

Well the thing is with BJ Koopalings. Kuma's right, BJ has as many fans as haters, while the koopalings do not have many (I have yet to see one) haters, but they are far harder to program as a fighter, so BJ may get the spot because we all know what Sakurai does when a character comes along that makes him think...make the SSE

@Arcadenik, I think your list is a little off. Yoshi should rank higher than BJ and Toadsworth, while the only named toad, is IMO less important than generic Toad

 

[Arcadenik]

@Arcadenik, I think your list is a little off. Yoshi should rank higher than BJ and Toadsworth, while the only named toad, is IMO less important than generic Toad

Bowser Jr. is vital to all the stories of the games he appeared in since he debuted. Super Mario Sunshine, New Super Mario Bros., Super Mario Galaxy, and New Super Mario Bros. Wii.

Toadsworth plays a major role in few stories of the games he appeared in since he debuted. Super Mario Sunshine and Mario & Luigi: Partners in Time. He wasn't very important to the stories told in New Super Mario Bros., Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door, and the two other Mario & Luigi games.

The Yoshi named Yoshi haven't played a major role in many Mario games except for Super Mario World, Super Mario Sunshine, and Super Mario 64 DS. Yoshi and generic Yoshis are not vital to the stories in the original Super Mario 64, Super Mario RPG, and New Super Mario Bros. Wii. Generic Yoshis, not Yoshi himself, are important in Yoshi's Island games because Yoshi himself was not even born until the end of Yoshi's Island DS.

Toad was important in the stories told in Super Mario Bros. 2, Wario's Woods, and possibly in Super Mario Sunshine and Super Mario Galaxy as the Red Toad (the leader of the Toad Brigade, even Super Mario Sunshine calls the Red Toad "Peach's attendant" in the manual implying that the Red Toad is Toad himself in a red vest). Toad played a minor role in Super Mario Bros. 3, Super Mario 64, both New Super Mario Bros. games, Super Mario RPG, the first Mario & Luigi game, Super Princess Peach, Super Paper Mario, and New Super Mario Bros. Wii. At least he had more roles in main Mario games than Wario and many other Mario characters.

Wario played a major role in Super Mario Land 2 as Mario's rival. But since then, he haven't been in any main Mario games. Instead he went on to star in his own spin-off series. The story in Wario Land: Super Mario Land 3 was about Wario trying to get Peach's statue back from Captain Syrup before Mario does. But in the rest of the Wario series, there were nothing about his rivalry with Mario. His most recent appearance in a main Mario game was in Super Mario 64 DS. Wario is pretty much not as important as the rest of the top 10 Mario characters but he is still in the top 10 nonetheless.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

OMG, the things I'd do for an F-Zero with 16-player races online. God dammit, Nintendo, give Mario a break!

Don't you mean give Wii *Insert something here* A break?

Yeah, there's tons of games I want. Too bad Mother won't be seeing a 3-D Version of it anytime soon. At least I have Golden Sun DS Along with S&P2 (When they get release dates here .-.) ...

Why is there 1901 pages when there's really only 1899 (Still unsure if I'm the only one seeing this)?

Probably has to do with the server.

Now I know people don't like others mentioning anything Street Fighter here, but on the topic of online, it needs to be done.

... I hope Sakurai sees this and seriously crank out some high grade goodies for SSB4 online-wise; by that I mean plenty modes and maybe some online specific games, like smashplayer16's idea. I don't think fixing the lag is gonna be enough next time around.

Yeah, see, one of the biggest complaints I see with brawl is "The online is a piece of junk" Yet I've seen no person to date bother to go into details. Unsure of how we'll get everyone to notice tho.

33. Baby Daisy

Everyone else, including Geno, are pretty much in the bottom of the barrel due to the fact they are all one shot characters.

...Lol.

Also some of those haven't appeared in main games (IE Kamek is really just Yoshi's villian) Also Toadsworth that high? O_o

It pretty much was. Iwata said at E3 05 at the next Smash Bros game would have wifi despite the game not even beginning development until October 2005. In "Sakurai's journal" that was posted shortly after E3 2006, he still talked about whether or not they were even going to attempt putting in online because, according to him, it was going to be extremelly difficult for a game like Smash Bros. At the time, he seemed to be leaning towards no because it was such a big obstacle to overcome given the Wii's limited wifi capabilities. With that being said, I think that the extremelly high fan demand made him change his mind.

With that said I say we start getting specific on online requests.

 

[ToiseOfChoice]

Can't believe some of the things people are saying in this thread. Actually, I guess I can.

Few things:

1. The Koopalings are more iconic than Bowser Jr. This is so retardedly obvious I have to wonder why people are even questioning it (aside from assuming some of you are kids). Keep in mind that no one's advocating them to be playable since everyone's aware of how much of a technical nightmare they'd be.

2. Bowser Jr. has a significant amount of hate from Mario fans. This also falls into the "retardedly obvious" category. Not to say he doesn't have fans, he does, but there's a LOT of hate. Daisy and Waluigi fit that bill too. And yes, that's a big problem for him.

3. These hierarchy lists are pretty bad, especially those of you caring about the storyline aspects so much (and giving individual rankings for these characters? come on guys, you're better than this). The only thing that matters is that Mario, Luigi, Peach, Yoshi, and Bowser are important, everyone else pales in comparison.

4. I like lists.

Regardless over who, point is that It's not really misrepresentation of the series with or without them (Toad and Jr) - I don't really know what to call it, so I'll let toise come up with it. (If he's not mariosick)

Over-representation.


@Shino: If you don't like motion controls then yeah, you're kinda screwed (since those aren't going away, though two of the games you listed can be played with a GC controller). Not sure how you feel about difficulty, but I'll mention that all three games you mentioned were par for the course in their respective series.


@Scooby: There should be a decent amount of sword stuff with Goroh too. I always imagined him spinning his sword around the way you'd swing a ball and chain (as opposed to the twirls Pit does). And lots of flailing too.

Also hoping you have something a little reminiscient of the tackling/spinning attacks from the games, but I can live without those as long as the whole thing shows off how boisterous he is.


@Koops: Car Slam? Come on, at least get the name right.


edit for Koops: Baby Daisy's in two games and Kamek's in NSMBWii.

 

[Arcadenik]

@ Thirdkoopa

Kamek is now more than a Yoshi villain. He is a Mario villain, too. He was in Mario & Luigi: Partners in Time and he is in New Super Mario Bros. Wii. And besides, the Yoshi games are more like the prequel to the Mario games in terms of storytelling.

Yeah, I think Toadsworth is pretty high. I mean, objectively, he does have important roles in several games. He is pretty underrated but Toad is more popular than him. I guess I base my rankings on story importance first and popularity second.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

Over-representation.

Oh, yeah. That's the word I was looking for.

Anyways, It is. The only reason you guys are hungry for more characters on it is because of Sales Charts, and when you take those away, you realize the true colors it is. You already have your Protaginist, Antagonist, Partner, Damsell in Distress, Freakishly popular dude you ride on and has his own game series, The starting of mario along with having his own series, and Wario who I suppose is your "Mario Spin-off Character" Moreso, along with WarioWare.

And anyone who brings up "BIG EIGHT" Yeah, Fan Term.

Seriously. Why no love to WarioWare/Land/Whatever and DK Instead of adding more to this? Heck, I've only seen such few people give love to the wario series asides from Toise and I in this thread.

@Scooby: There should be a decent amount of sword stuff with Goroh too. I always imagined him spinning his sword around the way you'd swing a ball and chain (as opposed to the twirls Pit does). And lots of flailing too.

That actually works pretty well. Maybe as his Side B Instead of what I put.

@Koops: Car Slam? Come on, at least get the name right.

edit for Koops: Baby Daisy's in two games and Kamek's in NSMBWii.

Car Burn...Sounds better, or maybe just the name of his car. Yeah, I really need to edit that.

Still doesn't make kamek really important at all, and Baby Daisy...I know she's appeared in MKWii. The other one being?

 

[smashplayer16]

I thought we had seen the end of this argument for a while...

I'm talking about having the same skill gap, from 64 and melee, where it really separates the skilled from the unskilled players.

And then just balance the game.

 

[Arcadenik]

Baby Daisy showed up in Mario Super Sluggers, too.

Also, there are not any Wario characters who can fight except maybe Kat & Ana and Young Cricket (but that's only because they are into martial arts). You have to make up everything from scratch for all these characters. Most of the support for Wario characters stems from the whole "we need more females!" idea which is why the most supported Wario characters are usually Mona, Ashley, Kat & Ana, and Captain Syrup. They are not very noteworthy.

As for Donkey Kong characters, the only characters worth adding are Dixie Kong and King K. Rool. No one is disputing that. Pretty much everyone else from the Donkey Kong series are not noteworthy as those two characters plus Donkey Kong and Diddy Kong.

About Yoshi characters, the only ones worth adding are Baby Mario (or Baby Bros.) and Kamek. But they are not as supported as Toad and Bowser Jr.

Personally, I would like the Marioverse roster to look like this.

Mario series
Mario
Luigi
Peach
Bowser
Toad

Donkey Kong series
Donkey Kong
Diddy Kong
Dixie Kong
King K. Rool

Yoshi series
Yoshi

Wario series
Wario

Here, we have the biggest stars from many Mario spin-off games (Mario Big Eight), the main players from the original Super Mario Bros. trilogy, the main players from Donkey Kong Country trilogy, the four mascots from the four main series (Mario, Donkey Kong, Yoshi, and Wario), and finally the only generic species to have ever been playable outside of spin-off games (Yoshi and Toad).