[Official SSB4 Discussion] --- Nintendo announces 2 new Smash games!

[Arcadenik]

I hope to get NSMBWii for the holidays. I could get some ideas for Toad's specials from this game. Who knows? Maybe he could represent NSMBWii through his moveset just like how Peach represents SMB2 through her moveset.

I don't want a second Yoshi just to have Baby Mario. Either place Baby Mario on Yoshi's back or make him a stand-alone character or a team with Baby Luigi.

Edit: What if the reason Wario have made-up moves is because Sakurai couldn't figure out how to make Wario's Wario Land transformations work in Smash? I mean, they could really be complicated. Mario's fireballs transform Wario into Flaming Wario. Ice Climbers' Blizzard causes Wario to turn into Snowball Wario. Lucas's PK Freeze turns Wario into Frozen Wario. The poisonous powers of Olimar's white Pikmin causes Wario to become Zombie Wario. Wario becomes Flat Wario when he is hit by Kirby's Stone. Pikachu's Thunder turns Wario into Electric Wario. Wario becomes Fat Wario whenever he picks up Maxim Tomato and Food. Wario's multiple jumps or recovery involves him transforming into Puffy Wario.

 

[wolfpack]

all im hoping for is mewtwo,pichu,roy, and maybe knuckles

 

[Thirdkoopa]

Personally, I would like that the whole Wario series be represented with:

Liking this for the most part. Personally I'd go with:
-Wario as Playable, Along with Mona (Or maybe Syrup, but I dunno)
-Diamond City for a WW Stage
-Bring back WW Inc. (Either DLC Or On-Disc)
-The temple idea Pieman suggested in the stage discussion group for WL Stage.
-A boss (Probably WL)
-New AT (Personally, I'd go with Jimmy T)
-More Trophies (Doesn't almost every series need this?)

I would like a second Yoshi carrying Baby Mario. It would make more sense.

Personally, I'd just go with having him with luigi, but If Kamek gets more of a direct villian role, my support goes to him.

@ThirdKoopa

I gotta say, breaking up the discussion into groups was a very smart idea.

Thanks Especially since all this gets underrated due to all the character discussion everywhere.

 

[SmashChu]

Hey SmashChu you were right. NSMBWii is teh awesome.

Your welcome

Also, just some side things:

I actually wouldn't mind Baby Mario. The problem is I don't think a lot of people agree with me. Also, as I have been mentioning with Toise, I'm trying to make an awesome roster, and I am split between Mona and Kat and Ana. The reason for the later is would be a character who people who were not a big fan of the series. Plus, I needed shorties. So, I'm conflicted. Plus, I can't make a very good moveset for Mona.

Also, as far as I can tell, four characters are consistently in every Warioware game: Wario, Jimmy T., Mona and Kat and Ana. I'm not sure about the Wiiware game though. I only know that Wario and Kat and Ana are defiantly in it.

 

[BBQTV]

i just lost a match do to tripping needles to say im ****ing pissed im gonna beat a dead horse and at this point you know what im gonna say

Spoiler

take out tripping

 

[ScoobyCafe]

I actually wouldn't mind Baby Mario. The problem is I don't think a lot of people agree with me.

People are just indifferent about them, I believe. Whether or not they're playable in SSB4, I don't think many would care all too much (If they end up being great characters, then probably folks would start developing interests in them, like Marth).

Also, as I have been mentioning with Toise, I'm trying to make an awesome roster, and I am split between Mona and Kat and Ana. The reason for the later is would be a character who people who were not a big fan of the series. Plus, I needed shorties. So, I'm conflicted. Plus, I can't make a very good moveset for Mona.

Shorties? lol

As for a Mona moveset, I believe it was you who brought up the thing about her changing outfits or having abilities that corresponds with her outfits before, like batons and whatnot. I thought that was a great idea. =P

 

[Arcadenik]

IMO, the franchises that need more trophies are:

- Yoshi (Yoshi, more babies besides Baby Mario and Baby Peach, Kamek, Toadies, Raphael Raven, Poochy, Yoshi's vehicle transformations)
- Wario (Wario, more WarioWare employees besides Kat & Ana, Captain Syrup, SS Tea Cup, Wario Land transformations including Vampire Wario, Shake King)
- Mother (Ness, Lucas, party members from Mother 2+3, Porky, Masked Man, Ultimate Chimera, Starman, Giygas)
- Kid Icarus (Pit, Palutena, Medusa, Eggplant Wizard, Reaper, Centurions, Shemum)
- R.O.B. (R.O.B., Professor Hector, Gyro Set, Block Set)
- Ice Climber (Ice Climbers, Polar Bear, Topi, Vegetables)

If Little Mac and Starfy get in, then we need more Punch-Out and Starfy trophies.

 

[Fatmanonice]

I agree; Wario, Fire Emblem, and Mother got virtually nothing when came to trophies in Brawl and those should have been of higher priority than the Sonic and Metal Gear trophies.

 

[Big-Cat]

I actually wouldn't mind Baby Mario. The problem is I don't think a lot of people agree with me. Also, as I have been mentioning with Toise, I'm trying to make an awesome roster, and I am split between Mona and Kat and Ana. The reason for the later is would be a character who people who were not a big fan of the series. Plus, I needed shorties. So, I'm conflicted. Plus, I can't make a very good moveset for Mona.

This reminds me of our little discussion we had a while back (no not THAT one). You have to remember that Smash is a game that thrives on fanservice and even Sakurai himself acknowledges this. I think making Mona the playable character would be a better form of fanservice (in more ways than one). Personally though, I'd prefer the Wario characters to be Wario, Mona, and Syrup. In terms of reps which people love to use, the representation of WW and WL is split evenly.

I agree; Wario, Fire Emblem, and Mother got virtually nothing when came to trophies in Brawl and those should have been of higher priority than the Sonic and Metal Gear trophies.

That's because those have little to no 3D games.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

IMO, the franchises that need more trophies are:

- Yoshi (Yoshi, more babies besides Baby Mario and Baby Peach, Kamek, Toadies, Raphael Raven, Poochy, Yoshi's vehicle transformations)
- Wario (Wario, more WarioWare employees besides Kat & Ana, Captain Syrup, SS Tea Cup, Wario Land transformations including Vampire Wario, Shake King)
- Mother (Ness, Lucas, party members from Mother 2+3, Porky, Masked Man, Ultimate Chimera, Starman, Giygas)
- Kid Icarus (Pit, Palutena, Medusa, Eggplant Wizard, Reaper, Centurions, Shemum)
- R.O.B. (R.O.B., Professor Hector, Gyro Set, Block Set)
- Ice Climber (Ice Climbers, Polar Bear, Topi, Vegetables)

If Little Mac and Starfy get in, then we need more Punch-Out and Starfy trophies.

To add onto the Mother one, I'd say Fasaad (Or the gypsies) And possibly a normal Claus one, also a Dr.Androunts one. I'd also say Mother 1 trophies but they look so similar...Well, maybe we can have Giygas's form as Gigue as a trophy If they can't get the other one to work.

Also Fire Emblem needs more trophies: Why not all the main lords of each game to start with?

edit for wario discussion: Uh Kuma, while I agree that a balance should be kept on representation of the two, I don't think Jimmy T Should be ignored If he is seen as a viable suggestion to Sakurai just to keep a balance.

...But yeah, agreed on balance between the two. lol shorties.

 

[Arcadenik]

What if Sakurai sees WarioWare employees as not suitable for fighting like the Animal Crossing characters?

 

[Neo Exdeath]

What if Sakurai sees WarioWare employees as not suitable for fighting like the Animal Crossing characters?

No real big loss. The only ones that look like they have moveset potential is Ashley, Jimmy T., Kat+Ana, and possibly Orbulon.

 

[Arcadenik]

I do not see any potential in Jimmy T. and Orbulon. Ashley and Kat & Ana, maybe.

 

[Clownbot]

Everyone has potential, but to Sakurai, I doubt any of the WarioWare characters do. Unless one of them gets a huge spike in popularity or some other similar case occurs, I doubt we'd see 'em.

 

[Neo Exdeath]

Everyone has potential, but to Sakurai, I doubt any of the WarioWare characters do. Unless one of them gets a huge spike in popularity or some other similar case occurs, I doubt we'd see 'em.

Unfortunately,due to Sakurai's close-mind, I have to agree with this.

 

[Arcadenik]

Well, to be fair, Sakurai cannot really haphazardly add characters in Smash just because they are popular.

 

[Big-Cat]

What if Sakurai sees WarioWare employees as not suitable for fighting like the Animal Crossing characters?

It furthers theories people have that Sakurai is a moron then.

Remember that moveset list idea I mentioned, well, I've worked more on it and, thanks to Shino, I think this is a better idea.

New Mode: Character Profiles

This mode starts off by allowing to pick a certain character from the roster. From there, the character you chose and Sandbag will appear on a flat stage. At the bottom of the screen, there will be list of special moves and their properties, grabs, and character properties. You pick a move from the list and the character will perform it for you.

For example, I can select to see Peach perform her float, Samus her rolling charge Beam, or Link throw his boomerang at different angles.

What do you guys think of this? At least it's better than Chronicle and Masterpieces.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

I do not see any potential in Jimmy T. and Orbulon. Ashley and Kat & Ana, maybe.

Uh, I posted a moveset for Jimmy T - There was potential in that.

Well, to be fair, Sakurai cannot really haphazardly add characters in Smash just because they are popular.

Agreed, except If It's Mona/Jimmy T, they still do fall under important.

It furthers theories people have that Sakurai is a moron then.

I wouldn't say moron but not allowing a character when the series got an Assist Trophy unlike DK/Yoshi? (And this one fights unlike the AC AT)

...Yeah. That there is taking it to far.

 

[ScoobyCafe]

@Kuma: I said before that I personally wouldn't mind something like that. Kinda doubt people here are gonna like that option, though.

What if Sakurai sees WarioWare employees as not suitable for fighting like the Animal Crossing characters?

... You know what, Sakurai should do something similar to what Keiji Inafune did with Mega Man II, i.e. make a contest or something so that fans could send him movesets.

 

[SmashChu]

People are just indifferent about them, I believe. Whether or not they're playable in SSB4, I don't think many would care all too much (If they end up being great characters, then probably folks would start developing interests in them, like Marth).

Much like fatman, they would set themselves on fire. That is one of those characters people are hostile to.

Shorties? lol

As for a Mona moveset, I believe it was you who brought up the thing about her changing outfits or having abilities that corresponds with her outfits before, like batons and whatnot. I thought that was a great idea. =P

The only down side I saw to that moveset would be that it's basically Zelda/Sheik, but not as dynamic. I think players would see that.

 

[UberMario]

Do you guys want to see some of my movesets? (I sent them to Majora for the ERP, but since I made them I could show them to you now)

 

[Big-Cat]

I wouldn't say moron but not allowing a character when the series got an Assist Trophy unlike DK/Yoshi? (And this one fights unlike the AC AT)

...Yeah. That there is taking it to far.

I'm not saying he's a moron. There are people, however, who do think he is one. Personally, I think he had good intentions with Brawl, but they were executed poorly.

 

[lightning112]

I hope they can have about 60-75 total characters so there are many more strategies and its a longer gameplay because in 2 months I beat subspace perfect have every trophy and every cd-sticker ( thankyou cd factory) and I hope they bring back adventure mode because it was quick and also I want them to add Blaziken I think he would be a good fighter

 

[NeverFiniteX]

I'm not quite sure how Mario rankings came about, I was just posting the amount of characters who are commonly requested (in addition to characters that are already present) which are Geno, Jr. & Toad

I seriously doubt that the developers would make it a priority and I can kind of see him as one of those characters that's added at the last minute to bolster the final roster.

The Koopalings are more iconic than Bowser Jr.

I agree, however Jr has been important in the more recent games and he is pretty much a Koopaling, it might be practical if Jr just assumes the traits of his kin for his techniques (I'm sure I've heard that somewhere around here) therefore he would represent (or embody) the Koopalings. If the developers have this in mind when constructing his moveset, he might actually make for a decent character.

@Kuma

I'm glad you brought that up, I forgot about that 'mode'. I wonder how many people go in and check them out, it seems like a good Idea.

 

[n88]

@Kuma

I support the idea of a mode to show players their moves. Usually, they're pretty easy to figure out, but not always. Rest really confused me and my friends at first. We couldn't figure out how Jiggly falling asleep was helpful.

@Baby Bros

Honestly, I don't see how they could exist without being Ice Climber clones.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

@Baby Bros

Honestly, I don't see how they could exist without being Ice Climber clones.

+ The two don't team up in the yoshi series. Baby Mario hardly does much to the whole series anyways, but Kamek seems viable, It's just that his flaw keeping him out (At least, for now) is a major flaw.

 

[ShinoandtheBallonFighter]

Why do we need to add more characters from Yoshi? The Yoshi series is about Yoshi, so let's just leave him, we're adding characters for the sake of addign them, when there are plenty of other deserving charactters.

@Toise
The motion control wasn;t the eason i disliked the games, it was the games themselves (I played the two with gamecube when I could and the moton seonsory isn't my initial turnoff, again it was the games themselves. The motion sensory was just the theing that makes a poor game unbearable.

 

[Arcadenik]

Why do we need to add more characters from Yoshi? The Yoshi series is about Yoshi, so let's just leave him, we're adding characters for the sake of addign them, when there are plenty of other deserving charactters.

I could say the same thing about the Wario series. I think that Mario and Donkey Kong are the only Marioverse franchises that deserve more characters.

 

[ShinoandtheBallonFighter]

I don't think Wario deserves more characters....although they do have a better pool to take from

 

[n88]

@thirdkoopa

What is this flaw holding Kamek back?

At any rate, roster!
(Not much different from the last one, but I didn't get a lot of criticism on the last one, either)
* Denotes unlockable

Super Mario Bros
Mario
Luigi*
Peach
Bowser
Bowser Jr.*

Donkey Kong
DK
Diddy
King K. Rool*

Yoshi's Island
Yoshi

WarioWhatever
Wario

Legend of Zelda
Link
Zelda/Sheik
Ganondorf*
Toon Link*
Toon Zelda/Tetra*

Metroid
Samus (ZSS)
Ridley*

Famicom/Retro
Pit
Ice Climbers
ROB*

Kirby Superstar
Kirby
Meta Knight
King Dedede

Pikmin
Olimar

StarFox
Fox
Falco
Wolf*

F-Zero
Captain Falcon
Samurai Goroh*

Pokemon
Pikachu
Jigglypuff*
Mewtwo*
Pokemon Trainer
5th Gen Pokemon*

Fire Emblem
Marth
Roy*
Ike*

MOTHER/Earthbound/Idk wtf to call this series
Ness
Lucas*

Game & Watch
Mr. Game & Watch *

New Series
Little Mac
Isaac*
Starfy
Ray Mk III*
Saki*

Third Party
Snake*
Sonic*
Megaman*

 

[ShinoandtheBallonFighter]

Honestly one of the best rosters I've seen. No issue outside Of JR. (Whom I do not care for) and unless I remember incorrectly, weren't you the supporter of Rosalina and Mach Rider?

 

[ScoobyCafe]

@Baby Bros

Honestly, I don't see how they could exist without being Ice Climber clones.

Because pairing two characters together automatically makes said character an IC clone? Okay, gotcha.

+ The two don't team up in the yoshi series. Baby Mario hardly does much to the whole series anyways, but Kamek seems viable, It's just that his flaw keeping him out (At least, for now) is a major flaw.

They were together in Yoshi's Island before Kamek split them apart, the whole game is about Baby Mario trying to get back together with his brother. That's how it is in every Yoshi's Island game. And Peach doesn't do much in Super Mario, probably why she uses moves from other games she appears in, i.e. SMRPG. Baby Bros. could do the same.

Why do we need to add more characters from Yoshi? The Yoshi series is about Yoshi, so let's just leave him, we're adding characters for the sake of addign them, when there are plenty of other deserving charactters.

Why shouldn't we add a new Yoshi character? The Yoshi series is about Yoshi, the main character, and the infants. Besides Kamek, who else could be the new Yoshi character? None other than Baby Bros.

 

[ShinoandtheBallonFighter]

Because your just adding the baby bros. for the sake of having another yoshi character. The baby bros. aren't terribly popular, have little in the way of personality, and never di a whole heck of a lot in the canon (yoshi related) except ride yoshi and...aid in attacks was it? I don't recall but someone said it earlier I believe

 

[ScoobyCafe]

I'm adding them because they're part of the Yoshi Island series, but also because I feel they could bring something new to the party. Peach never did a lot in the main Mario games and since when does a lack of personality exclude characters from entry?

Popularity is probably the only thing going against them, albeit they aren't terribly unknown either.

 

[Mowrt620]

Some characters just downright don't belong in SSB. They're unpopular, non-moveset-able, unimportant, and the likes. Kamek....meh.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

I could say the same thing about the Wario series. I think that Mario and Donkey Kong are the only Marioverse franchises that deserve more characters.

Wario however (Like DK) Has a far better pool to pick from.

@thirdkoopa
What is this flaw holding Kamek back?

tl;dr edition: All he did in the games was make things bigger and was never a "True" Antagonist unlike Syrup/K.Rool/*Insert villian here* Oh, and it doesn't help to mention that in mario games, he is pretty much a regular enemy.

Because pairing two characters together automatically makes said character an IC clone? Okay, gotcha.

He means by the gimmick - What unique aspects would it have? (Same goes for the Diddy/Dixie idea)

They were together in Yoshi's Island before Kamek split them apart, the whole game is about Baby Mario trying to get back together with his brother. That's how it is in every Yoshi's Island game. And Peach doesn't do much in Super Mario, probably why she uses moves from other games she appears in, i.e. SMRPG. Baby Bros. could do the same.

1)They weren't actually together as protaginists.
2)Yoshi's Story (Along with others) Still exist, har har.
3)SMB2, Also SMRPG/The RPG Games are more connected to Mario than to Yoshi (Which is the main game where you can get moves off of them, partners in time, that is)

I personally don't really want them because I'm for keeping a limit on variations of other characters. The only one I support in any way is Paper Mario (And at that I'm more opting on "Well, It could just have a stage and some Assist Trophies along with some music") However If Kamek does appear as an "Actual/direct/etc" Villian more (Especially in the yoshi series) Then I'd be fine with him. Yoshi sure is rather lonely there.

 

[The Real Gamer]

After looking at that list I can't help but wonder... Who would you guys rather have; Mewtwo or Lucario? I don't think you can put them both in, because their movesets are too similar.

Personally I'd like to see Mewtwo make a return and that opens up a space for a new 5th gen. Pokemon. Mewtwo simply has more significance to the Pokemon series than Lucario ever will.

 

[ScoobyCafe]

He means by the gimmick - What unique aspects would it have? (Same goes for the Diddy/Dixie idea)

Tagging? Like in Mario Kart DD or M&L Partners in Time, they could tag each other. I originally had this idea for Donbe and Hikari, but yeah, they aren't so likely.

1)They weren't actually together as protaginists.
2)Yoshi's Story (Along with others) Still exist, har har.
3)SMB2, Also SMRPG/The RPG Games are more connected to Mario than to Yoshi (Which is the main game where you can get moves off of them, partners in time, that is)

1) Regardless, they were together then, and are now in other games.
2) I said Yoshi's Island games.
3) The fact that she gets her attacks from other games should be enough reason for Baby Bros. to do the same.

I personally don't really want them because I'm for keeping a limit on variations of other characters. The only one I support in any way is Paper Mario (And at that I'm more opting on "Well, It could just have a stage and some Assist Trophies along with some music") However If Kamek does appear as an "Actual/direct/etc" Villian more (Especially in the yoshi series) Then I'd be fine with him. Yoshi sure is rather lonely there.

No point in discussing them with you if you have a personal bias against them. I wouldn't mind if Kamek got in over Baby Bros. myself, but like Toad, he has some obstacles hindering him.

@The Real Gamer

Mewtwo, though I personally would like both. Realistically speaking, though, Lucario is probably going to get replaced by the 5th gen Pokemon.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

Tagging? Like in Mario Kart DD or M&L Partners in Time, they could tag each other. I originally had this idea for Donbe and Hikari, but yeah, they aren't so likely.

Go on about this; I'm interested.

1) Regardless, they were together then, and are now in other games.
2) I said Yoshi's Island games.
3) The fact that she gets her attacks from other games should be enough reason for Baby Bros. to do the same.

1)Yeah, but I'm still going by in the series that they aren't together actually fighting.
2)Just stating that the other's still matter to the series.
3)But Baby Bros don't even get it in there exact series, Peach still did at least fight in those (SMB2) And in the Spin-Offs (That were spin-offs to mario, not yoshi) - Not stating that as a total flaw however.

No point in discussing them with you if you have a personal bias against them. I wouldn't mind if Kamek got in over Baby Bros. myself, but like Toad, he has some obstacles hindering him.

Not really a personal bias; It's more of a bias against having a version of an already existing character. As toise has stated, popularity is something hindering against those. That and Baby Mario doesn't really do much (Similar to kamek) And isn't even in all the games. I guess It could still happen, but there's already quite a bit out there hindering the idea.

On the contrary however, Baby Mario was placed under the Yoshi series in trophies, so I suppose that does mean something (Unlike how kamek didn't even get a trophy)

 

[n88]

@Scooby

Well,

IC=Two short people w/hammers
Baby Bros=Two short people w/hammers

Perhaps they could be different, but it seems unlikely to me. Any comments on the actual roster?

@Shino

I do support Rosalina and Mach Rider, but I don't include them in every prediction. Sometimes I build bigger rosters that include them, sometimes smaller ones that don't, mostly depending on my mood. Giving people different things to talk about changes up teh discussion more.