[Official SSB4 Discussion] --- Nintendo announces 2 new Smash games!

[Hero Dude]

That isn't applying the Wii? Metroid has def. taken DK's spot then.

 

[n88]

No. Nintendo series rankings go like this (The ones not in Smash aren't listed):

If Wii was included, it would have bumped Zelda out of third. Although that should be taken with a grain of salt, since that includes Wii Sports (Comes with Wii. You have no choice but to but it), the best-selling video game of all time.

@Hero

This is up to date as of July.

 

[ToiseOfChoice]

n88 is referring to this post from a couple months (and 400 pages!) ago:

Just throwing this out there, the general sales histories of various Nintendo franchises. Series with playable characters in yellow, others in white:

Super Mario Bros. --- 210+ million
Pokemon ------------- 186+ million
Wii Series ----------- 93+ million
Legend of Zelda ------ 57+ million
Donkey Kong ---------- 50+ million
Brain Age ------------ 31+ million
Kirby ---------------- 30+ million
Nintendogs ----------- 22+ million
Super Smash Bros. ---- 21+ million
Yoshi ---------------- 21+ million
Wario Land/WarioWare - 20+ million
Animal Crossing ------ 17+ million
Metroid -------------- 14+ million
Star Fox ------------- 10+ million
Big Brain Academy ----- 9+ million
F-Zero ---------------- 8+ million
Fire Emblem ----------- 6+ million
G&W Gallery ----------- 5+ million
Punch-Out!! ----------- 5+ million
Pikmin ---------------- 3+ million
Kid Icarus ------------ 2+ million
Mother/EarthBound ----- 2+ million
Ice Climber ----------- 2+ million
Golden Sun ------------ 2+ million
Gyromite/Stack-Up ----- 2+ million
Densetsu no Stafy ----- 1+ million
Electroplankton -------- 30,000

For the curious, Sonic is around 52+ million and Metal Gear around 26+ million. 99% certain G&W Gallery is included in Mario sales, Yoshi might be too.

Had trouble finding conclusive sales for Sin & Punishment, Nintendo Wars, and the old Game & Watch games (though I know G&W had a couple million sellers in Fire, Manhole, and Octopus).

Added this since people seem to assume various things about which series are more successful than others, especially Zelda (fun fact: Zelda isn't as popular in Japan as it is in the rest of the world). At this point if anyone says Sakurai's opinion isn't the only thing that counts, you're in denial.

Typically someone sees this and starts complaining about Star Fox or something. Surprised no one ever mentions DK (here's another fun fact: DK outsold Zelda during Melee).

And yes, this list is fast becoming out-of-date, particularly for Mario, Pokemon, and Wii. I probably won't assemble a new one for a while though.

 

[DaButcher]

I personally think the Mario slot is full. Mario, Luigi, Peach, and Bowser fills it perfectly. If they make room for Geno (a character that only appeared in ONE out of how many Mario games?), they can make room for almost anyone in the Mario universe. Bowser Jr. is the only option for a 5th Mario place.

I'm not sure King K. Rool would have a place in Brawl. The big bad lizard is already filled better by Bowser. While he is the antagonist of the Donkey Kong series, I'm pretty sure he's simply not a favorite character in gamer's eyes. Dixie Kong is a better match. Sakurai was obviously considering Dixie, there are Dixie files in Brawl.

Yoshi is awesome. I consider him as the 5th Mario rep anyway.

Mona would be the best choice for a 2nd Wario character. Best fanbase, and it's clear that Mona is the real secondary character in Wario Ware. But I'm honestly not convinced Wario needs a second rep.

LoZ is well filled. I always hated the "lighter link" character since Melee, but Toon Link is still a good choice.

Pokemon is great the way it is. Lucario is a great rep. Please make a female Pokemon Trainer model. There is simply no reason not to.

If F Zero gets a second rep, it's Samurai Goroh. I don't think F Zero needs another rep though. C Falcon's ego fills at least 4 reps for F Zero!

I like the idea of Ridley for Metroid, but seeing him so small would be very strange. Ridley has excellent potential though, his size is the only stumbling block.

Ice Climbers, G&W, Pit, and Olimar are awesome. Please get rid of ROB. A Robotic Operating BUDDY shouldn't be in a fighting game.

Claus could be a cool idea. But only masked man style. They can't make Claus a third luigified Ness.

Fox, Falco, Wolf. That's all we need from Star Fox. Except of course, Peppy coming out and saying, "DO A BARREL ROLL!" on Corneria.

Micaiah is a great and the best choice for a third Fire Emblem Character. Another chance for a unique character, Micaiah would play a little like Zelda. Micaiah is the newest character in the Fire Emblem series, and an important character at that. And besides, we all know that smash bros needs more female rep!

Tom Nook is the only option for a character from AC, and a poor one at that. Nook simply hasn't shown any fighting skills.

The Kirby line-up is great.

Little Mac is a possibility, but he just sounds too bland for a character in a game as eccentric as Smash is.

Something was said for Sukapon. Sounds pretty good. Definitely better than ROB.

One last thing, why does everyone forget Chibi-Robo? We've seen from Olimar that small things can be grossly inflated for Smash Bros. Chibi-Robo has all of the tools for an excellent moveset.

As for Third Parties...

Travis Touchdown would make an amazing and awesome addition to smash bros. We have Snake, M-Rated characters are allowed. I'm sure Takada would be thrilled to have Travis in Smash Bros.

I'd like to see Sonic get second rep. If he does, Tails would be the best choice. Tails would allow for a unique character, with a few ties to Sonic. Tails is a more prominent secondary character in the Sonic series than Knuckles.

Megaman is a great choice for a third party, but it may be likely that Capcom isn't interested.

Rayman is another great choice, but Ubisoft also may not be interested either.

Leon from Resident Evil could make a good character.

Banjo-Kazooie would be a shoe-in, but Microsoft owns Rare. Blame Microsoft for our sadness.

This leaves me with: (New characters are Bolded)

Mario, Luigi, Peach, Bowser, Donkey Kong, Diddy Kong, Dixie Kong, Yoshi, Wario, Mona, Link, Zelda, Ganondorf, Toon Link, Pikachu, Pokemon Trainer, Jigglypuff, Lucario, Captain Falcon, Samus, Ridley, Ice Climbers, Mr. Game & Watch, Pit, Sukapon, Olimar, Chibi-Robo, Ness, Lucas, Fox, Falco, Wolf, Marth, Ike, Micaiah, Kirby, Metaknight, King Dedede, Snake, Sonic, Tails, Travis

Enjoy and Critique!

 

[libertyernie]

I am a proud Electroplankton owner

You know what SSB4 needs? A Wario Land level. Everything in Brawl related to Wario is just from the WarioWare games. Then again, Shake It!, the sort of "revival" game in the series, came out after Brawl.

 

[Starphoenix]

I personally think the Mario slot is full. Mario, Luigi, Peach, and Bowser fills it perfectly. If they make room for Geno (a character that only appeared in ONE out of how many Mario games?), they can make room for almost anyone in the Mario universe. Bowser Jr. is the only option for a 5th Mario place.

Chances are we will get another Mario character. Bowser. Jr is likely but far from guaranteed. We also have Toad and Paper Mario, though certain characters are more controversial than others...

I'm not sure King K. Rool would have a place in Brawl. The big bad lizard is already filled better by Bowser. While he is the antagonist of the Donkey Kong series, I'm pretty sure he's simply not a favorite character in gamer's eyes. Dixie Kong is a better match. Sakurai was obviously considering Dixie, there are Dixie files in Brawl.

In regards to Dixie, it is plausible Sakurai intended for a Diddy/Dixie Kong team ala Ice Climbers. King K. Rool is popular enough (he was mentioned a couple times in Sakurai's journal to my recollection). Bowser will probably not play a part in King K. Rools inclusion or exclusion, under that logic Ridley should not get in as we already have a winged dragon.

Yoshi is awesome. I consider him as the 5th Mario rep anyway.

Mona would be the best choice for a 2nd Wario character. Best fanbase, and it's clear that Mona is the real secondary character in Wario Ware. But I'm honestly not convinced Wario needs a second rep.

Agree

LoZ is well filled. I always hated the "lighter link" character since Melee, but Toon Link is still a good choice.

Ono thing sure to happen is "main Link" may endure another cosmetics change due to Zelda Wii. How great of a change that is has yet to be seen, but based upon the preliminary poster art it does not look to be to different. There is still that possibility of Tingle making an appearance beyond simply an AT. Not to mention we have no idea what type of characters may be introduced or return in Zelda Wii, that could also impact things.

Pokemon is great the way it is. Lucario is a great rep. Please make a female Pokemon Trainer model. There is simply no reason not to.

Would not mind a female Pokémon Trainer if implemented with different Pokémon. Again it is up to Sakurai, since he might not want to draw away from male Pokémon Trainer's originality.

If F Zero gets a second rep, it's Samurai Goroh. I don't think F Zero needs another rep though. C Falcon's ego fills at least 4 reps for F Zero!

I like the idea of Ridley for Metroid, but seeing him so small would be very strange. Ridley has excellent potential though, his size is the only stumbling block.

Just like Zelda Wii, Other M could have an impact on potential Metroid candidates depending on how characters introduced or returning are developed. Personally I would like to see Samus' moveset tweaked.

Ice Climbers, G&W, Pit, and Olimar are awesome. Please get rid of ROB. A Robotic Operating BUDDY shouldn't be in a fighting game.

Yeah... R.O.B is not going anywhere, nor is there any reason for him to. He is original, a good character in regard to his playability, and just plain fun. Not to mention he is the only robot in the game (do not say Samus), and Smash needed a robot!

Claus could be a cool idea. But only masked man style. They can't make Claus a third luigified Ness.

I agree, though I am more focused at this point on seeing more Earthbound/Mother 2 specific musical tracks in the future.

Fox, Falco, Wolf. That's all we need from Star Fox. Except of course, Peppy coming out and saying, "DO A BARREL ROLL!" on Corneria.

Micaiah is a great and the best choice for a third Fire Emblem Character. Another chance for a unique character, Micaiah would play a little like Zelda. Micaiah is the newest character in the Fire Emblem series, and an important character at that. And besides, we all know that smash bros needs more female rep!

As some have previously stated we will more than likely have a new FE game in the future so Micaiah will become outdated.

Tom Nook is the only option for a character from AC, and a poor one at that. Nook simply hasn't shown any fighting skills.

The Kirby line-up is great.

Agree

Little Mac is a possibility, but he just sounds too bland for a character in a game as eccentric as Smash is.

If Sakurai was able to turn Game and Watch into a viable fighter, I think Little Mac wouldn't be to difficult to find some creative moves.

Something was said for Sukapon. Sounds pretty good. Definitely better than ROB.

Again with this R.O.B loathing...

One last thing, why does everyone forget Chibi-Robo? We've seen from Olimar that small things can be grossly inflated for Smash Bros. Chibi-Robo has all of the tools for an excellent moveset.

I have seen pictures of him, but have no real knowledge of the character or his games. To be honest I thought he was third party? He has creative possibilities, but whether he has the fan support to get him there I don't know (literally).

As for Third Parties...

Travis Touchdown would make an amazing and awesome addition to smash bros. We have Snake, M-Rated characters are allowed. I'm sure Takada would be thrilled to have Travis in Smash Bros.

Absolutely no!

I'd like to see Sonic get second rep. If he does, Tails would be the best choice. Tails would allow for a unique character, with a few ties to Sonic. Tails is a more prominent secondary character in the Sonic series than Knuckles.

Sounds fine, but whether any third party series will get another character is unlikely. Even if they originally (speculative) planned for that in Brawl.

Megaman is a great choice for a third party, but it may be likely that Capcom isn't interested.

From what I know Keiji Inafune has already stated twice that he would not mind Megaman appearing in a future Smash Bros and that he likes the series. More than likely nobody made a proactive effort to see this through and he fell through

Rayman is another great choice, but Ubisoft also may not be interested either.

Doubt it.

Leon from Resident Evil could make a good character.

Again, doubt it.

Banjo-Kazooie would be a shoe-in, but Microsoft owns Rare. Blame Microsoft for our sadness.

This leaves me with: (New characters are Bolded)

Mario, Luigi, Peach, Bowser, Donkey Kong, Diddy Kong, Dixie Kong, Yoshi, Wario, Mona, Link, Zelda, Ganondorf, Toon Link, Pikachu, Pokemon Trainer, Jigglypuff, Lucario, Captain Falcon, Samus, Ridley, Ice Climbers, Mr. Game & Watch, Pit, Sukapon, Olimar, Chibi-Robo, Ness, Lucas, Fox, Falco, Wolf, Marth, Ike, Micaiah, Kirby, Metaknight, King Dedede, Snake, Sonic, Tails, Travis

Enjoy and Critique!

My comments are in red.

 

[SmashChu]

I talked about this a while back and here's what I think.

I'm against the idea of DLC stages and characters.

The problem with DLC is that you run into the possiblity of splitting up the user base as a result. Another problem also is that DLC in question may be too much to download. That's what kinda why Super Street Fighter IV is coming out on a cheaper disc.

I would much prefer to see an update disc. For example, if Brawl got Super Smash Bros. Brawl Round 2, you'd have better balancing and refined gameplay, characters Mewtwo, Roy, Krystal, and Little Mac added, five new stages, some new items, and new music to top it off.

Considering that the gap between the last two Smashes has been huge, this would be one way to keep things alive a bit. No more than 2 updates, one coming out a year after the other.

Yeah, like an expansion pack. Of course, it must expand the content of the game, so what you mentioned may not be enough for players to purchase a second game.

Also, Smash fans are a lot harder to please when it comes to characters. SSF4 is adding 8 characters, only two of which are new. Only two new characters in an expansion would piss off a lot of Smash fans where many would not buy the game. Roy, Mewtwo and six other characters would suffice.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

We need Masked Man.
We need Megaman.
We need Marx as a boss, and Marx Soul.
We need Midna as playable.
Better wifi.
Bowser Jr.

Everything you said asides from Midna is true.

Claus could be a cool idea. But only masked man style. They can't make Claus a third luigified Ness.

Duh. When we say Claus, we're discussing The Masked Man. We wouldn't want something that's already a color swap.

we all know that smash bros needs more female rep!

No. Smash doesn't NEED It, but It would be something nice to have.


@Toise:

Bleah, how did I miss ROB? Knew something was wrong. Maybe my eyes are too tired right now.

Anyway, if you're going to factor DLC into this, you should include a list of DLC characters and whatnot. People will still want to know who's in the game, whether they're out of the box or online.

Most of the changes you've made are alright now.

Sure:
I'd opt for somewhere around 15 with DLC, since altogether with a 45 Character roster that's 60, and that's discluding possibly changeable movesets...

Yeah, so anyhow:
Paper Mario (Assuming Bowser Jr takes up the mario spot), Tingle, Vaati, Mewtwo, Pichu (Or Plusle and Minun), Roy, Andy, Ray 01, Chibi-Robo, ROB, Roy, Lucario, Krystal, Black Shadow, Felix

Of course, other retro's could easily be possible along with other new franchises too. I'm kinda tired as I'm typing this so I'm not on my best with idea's, but yeah.

Here's the Ridley statement:

Nintendo Power: There was a rumor at one point about Ridley being playable. Was that ever a consideration?
Sakurai: I think that would probably be pretty impossible. [Laughs] If we had put or best efforts into it, we might have been able to do it. But he might have been a little slow. Would that be all right? [Laughs]

I always thought it was funny Sakurai mentions speed rather than size.

Anyway, he says "he'd be a pain to make" rather than "we'll probably never add him." A negative, but not an outright opposition. Plus there's the fact that no one seems to care about Sukapon. Guess I'll just mentally draw a little ROB face over him when I look at this picture.

I care for sukapon =[ And I put both under "Hard to program" Tho I'll admit, Sukapon is a bit more awkward...

Still; I believe sukapon deserves at least more than a sticker after playing Joy Mech Fight, considering It's nintendo's first fighting game (Fighting, not boxing.) Seriously, he's just too interesting to deny a PC Slot.

Hmm... yeah, I'm too lazy to do that right now. Here's the skinny though: they're the type of company that assumes they know what the customer wants and they get that right about, I don't know, one in four times. So Sakurai might approach them with the idea for Character X based on requests, and they might be like "no, WE wanna use Character Y!" And then blah blah blah bad blood with Nintendo blah blah I'll finish this some other time. Point is they're jerks and I have doubts Sakurai would successfully reach an agreement with them over one character (unless it's unanimous).


Last thing I want to mention is that assuming we'll get an unspecified Mario or 3rd-party character is very presumptuous. Remember how almost everyone was expecting someone to "fill the void" left by Doc? If Sakurai's gonna add a Mario character, it'll be because that character is awesome and he wants them in, not because the series has an arbitrary quota to meet. Same deal with 3rd parties, only the restrictions for adding another are much higher.


dsajfksdjkfa this thread and fastness and whatnot

Mario series; We technically did get wario.

Third-Parties; While we don't have any pattern of any sorts, to assume we'll only get Megaman and Snake/Sonic return is just...Well...Odd.

Really; With the article I linked of Travis Touchdown, after snake, I can't see him being denied. Sakurai said in an interview when asked "Have any other companies asked about smash?" He said no. Seeing how Capcom and Suda 51 are interested; I really can't see why he'd just put a flat out no. Violence isn't really much considering we have snake in Smash.

About Square Enix; You have a point. Square Enix tends to be a shaky company, so even with DQ And FF, There's really no priority to that company whatsoever. It's all based mainly upon the interest level between each other. We really can't determine If sakurai and SE Would care more for Black Mage than say, Chrono, or Neku (Just random examples I'm putting up) The only one we can really deconfirm of there main characters/geno is Sora, and that's because of his part disney liscense.

 

[stealthwarrior17]

Im fine as long they expand the stage and character line-up. When SSB4 is released, it will obviously not be balanced so i wont bother asking for it. At least 8 new characters, revival of mewtwo into the line-up (he was unique while roy is a total knockoff of old marth plus ike has more popularity while filling the same role). I have a strong feeling snake may disappear off the next lineup (rights issues you know...sigh..).

Remove gliding mechanic, its unfair and limited to only a few characters.

 

[fullynick]

instead of tons of characters, someone should figure out how to get ggpo to work with smash bros.

 

[Big-Cat]

Yeah, like an expansion pack. Of course, it must expand the content of the game, so what you mentioned may not be enough for players to purchase a second game.

Also, Smash fans are a lot harder to please when it comes to characters. SSF4 is adding 8 characters, only two of which are new. Only two new characters in an expansion would piss off a lot of Smash fans where many would not buy the game. Roy, Mewtwo and six other characters would suffice.

You have to take into account that SSF4 is adding in at least 6 characters that are from other games. Thus, they already have a moveset, inputs and everything. All they need to do, easier said than done, is adapt those characters into the new game engine.

For Smash, you have to come up with an entire moveset and animate those when they have no preexisting reference.

We have to realize too that by adding eight characters to Smash, we have fewer highly anticipated characters for SSB4. Chances are, those six would be Krystal, Little Mac, K. Rool, Toad, Saki, and Isaac.

Besides, when it comes to an update, I'd be more concerned about refining the gameplay and getting ideas in that were planned originally (ie the Seven Deadly Fighters to an extent) than adding several characters.

 

[enigma786]

i predict in the next game when u jump u char will float forever , and if u touch the ground u char trips 15 times and dies.

 

[ShinoandtheBallonFighter]

On Dabutchers list:

Mario: Agreed, Mario shouldbe full, but I'm sure it will get another rep

DK: Your underrating K.Rool, he has reapeared in all of the country games (4 times I believe), is the main antagonist of the series, and is very well liked by the fans of the series. He is more than a big lizard: A king, Pirate, Scientists, etc. (I'm forgetting one)

LoZ: I love the "Lighter Links" in both games. Toon Link could stay or be replaced by YOung Link (I just like him more) and theres always the possibility to Tingle (Or tetra, I want tetra)

Yoshi/Wario: Filled IMO

Pokemon: Bump Lucario, bring in Mewtwo. Female trainer would be nice but it shouldnt be a priority

F-zero: Agreed completely (Just ebcause I only played one F-0 game [go SNES], and was young, so the series has little importance to me)

Retro-ish: Sure, Don't care for R.O.B, would like to see Balloon Fighter

MOTHER: could care Less

Fire Emblem: If we're going by what we have now, Black Knight is superior to Mica in everything except being a main character. He is Ike's anti-hero, has an engaging story role that keeps you guessing, indirectly gave Ike the ability to win both of the games he had a role in (Ragnell).

Oh and before anyone says anythign about him being clonish, let's recall how many people wanted a Sword Ganondorf. He would be a clone of Ike easily.

Chbi-Robo: Just as bad as R.O.B...He was a house servant, not a fighter....double standards FTW

Star Fox: Agreed, except we need more Peppy being on the CCS and being playable...

3rd Parties: They all could work, except maybe Leon-too many gunz O.0 Rayman is too much like sukapon, and your list lacks bomberman


@Kuma: Of those six you listed...I don't think Krystal's getting in (Or at least I hope not)

 

[Big-Cat]

@Shino
I don't understand this Krystal hate going on. Before Brawl was released, everyone thought she was a shoo-in. Now because of some fictional rule, she's hated.

 

[Cyn]

i know im in the minority in this opinion but i hope bowser jr, never makes an appearance on the next smash, if we are going to do that then what is stopping them from putting in baby mario or luigi or any other baby version, both of them have had multiple appearances. i dont want to see them make an appearance and i sure as hell dont want to see bowser jr in there. thats just my opinion. im just sayin.......

 

[ToiseOfChoice]

@Kuma: While a lot of people are trying to justify it with reps and whatnot, pretty sure everyone's just sick of Star Fox getting so much character focus over at least half of the other series. She's still very important and popular to her series, no one's denying that. People just want other series to get the same treatment.

Consider that Star Fox and F-Zero are roughly on par with each other in any given field:

:random:
:random: :random: :random:

Why is Star Fox so special that it's worthy of its entire core ensemble before F-Zero gets anything besides the lead? Yeah, it's great if you're a Star Fox fan, but why should F-Zero fans be left out? Or while we're at it, DK fans? Wario fans?

:random: :random:
:random: :random:

There's no reason why these characters should be considered "less worthy" than those of Star Fox, yet they're eating dirt while Fox and pals ride high and pretty.

Can you honestly say that's fair? Everyone else seems to think not. People are peeved by Wolf. Do you really think they'd be cool with Krystal while these other series are just getting started on their major supporting characters?

 

[Omnicron's Baklava Enterprises]

i know im in the minority in this opinion but i hope bowser jr, never makes an appearance on the next smash, if we are going to do that then what is stopping them from putting in baby mario or luigi or any other baby version, both of them have had multiple appearances. i dont want to see them make an appearance and i sure as hell dont want to see bowser jr in there. thats just my opinion. im just sayin.......

I would agree on this one...

The Mario series already has 4 characters to go along with it. Besides, Bowser is so much better than his son; much more power and much more intelligence anyway.

I wonder if they'll add any other Kirby characters, like Knuckle Joe or something of the like. However, in Brawl, all of the Kirby characters are either top tier (Meta Knight), have infinite chaingrabs and nice B-airs (Dedede), and have great F-Smashes (Kirby) and other tweaks to each of them that make them powerful opponents.

And about Star Fox? Personally, I really dislike, even hate to an extent, Fox McCloud and Krystal. Has she shown any true power in the Star Fox games?

Falco should stay because he is generally better than Fox, even though Fox gets more recognition than Falco does. The relation between Fox and Falco is similar to that of Mario and Luigi; how Luigi has better jumps and has more power than Mario, although Mario gets the credit. Although Fox and Falco aren't brothers, same concept still applies. No more Star Fox characters, for the same reason as ToiseofChoice just stated.

I don't know much about the F-Zero series, but another character (whichever) would be nice. Captain Falcon is too lonely IMO.

 

[DekuBoy]

Sakurai said on the Dojo that Nintendo aren't making many character based series nowadays. Maybe this means if he does SSB4 he'll concentrate on addding to the existing series?

 

[Arcadenik]

Is this the roster most of you want in SSB4? No removing/replacing characters because we cannot have people BAWWWing all over the Internet for years to come... keep everyone from Brawl and add Mewtwo and Roy plus the following characters:

:random: either Toad, Bowser Jr., or Paper Mario
:random: either Dixie Kong or King K. Rool but we could have both if Dixie Kong is teamed with Diddy Kong
:random: either Toon Zelda or Tingle
:random::random: Ridley and Little Mac
:random: either Starfy or a new franchise rep
:random: either Samurai Goroh or Black Shadow because apparently it is not fair to add a 4th Star Fox rep if f-Zero only has one rep
:mewtwo: Mewtwo (or replace either Mewtwo or Lucario with a future 5th gen Pokemon)
Roy (or replace either Ike or Roy with a future New Lord)
:random: Mega Man

 

[smashplayer16]

SSB4 Game Modes, Options, and Mechanics Discussion

After seeing that the "official SSB4 discussion thread" is really just a character wish list thread in actuality, I decided to make this thread so that you guys can throw some new ideas around that could improve the game. Here are some of my ideas.

(1)Have the online improved. Since this game is most likely going to come out on the next Nintendo console, and im guessing its going to have better hardware, the production team will have something better to work with.(2)Costume Editor should be on the game so you can personalize your character. Nothing like Soul Calibur 4 or Tekken 6 where its just overdone, but something simple like the Virtuafighter5 where you have 4 preset costumes to work with and being able to edit certain costumes with certain items.

(3)Capture the Flag mode; some people say that this wouldn't work, I don't see how it wouldn't. If the production team would add some kind of lan feature, that would support up to 8 players on certain stages. They could throw in stages such as "Underground Maze" or "Race to the Finish" from "SSBM" as stages that would be able to support up to 8 players. They could make it where the flag carrier speed is reduced, and having their options such as rolling eliminated to make capturing the flag challenging.

(4) I have already covered certain stages that can support a certain amount of players;EXAMPLE;a small stage like "Battlefield" supports 4 players, a medium stage "Hyrule Temple" supports up to 8 players, and a Large stage "Race to the Finish" supports up to 16 players(I know that 16 players would probably be to much, this is just an example)

(5) Here is something else; having different styles, similar to how "Streetfighter alpha 3" and "Capcom vs SNK" does with their "ism's". Just something like choosing between original smashbros. Mario, Melee's Mario, and Brawl's Mario moveset before the start of a match. Or maybe something like "Virtua Fighter" where you have certain character with and offensive/defensive style that you can change as you are already in a match fighting. Or should the mechanics of the game just be kept simple and pure, like all the other Smash titles?

Ive basically thought of idea's from other games that can be used in SSB4. So what do you guys think?, should they speed up the gameplay? or keep it the speed the same as Brawl/64? Just some thoughts that can be discussed in greater detail. Post your ideas and discuss, and lets keep the discussion pertaining to the title of this thread "Game Modes, options, and Mechanics Discussion."

 

[n88]

Is this the roster most of you want in SSB4? No removing/replacing characters because we cannot have people BAWWWing all over the Internet for years to come... keep everyone from Brawl and add Mewtwo and Roy plus the following characters:

??

Frankly, the only expandable characters are Lucario, Jiggly*, Sonic, and Snake anyway. That isn't really the roster I want because it leaves several characters I think should be in out, but it's alright.



*Yes, I know Jigglypuff probably won't get cut, but she barely made it into Brawl (As evidenced by her spot on the CSS, her event matches, lack of a role in the SSE, etc.), so Sakurai has thought about cutting her.

 

[Fatmanonice]

Is this the roster most of you want in SSB4? No removing/replacing characters because we cannot have people BAWWWing all over the Internet for years to come... keep everyone from Brawl and add Mewtwo and Roy plus the following characters:

:random: either Toad, Bowser Jr., or Paper Mario
:random: either Dixie Kong or King K. Rool but we could have both if Dixie Kong is teamed with Diddy Kong
:random: either Toon Zelda or Tingle
:random::random: Ridley and Little Mac
:random: either Starfy or a new franchise rep
:random: either Samurai Goroh or Black Shadow because apparently it is not fair to add a 4th Star Fox rep if f-Zero only has one rep
:mewtwo: Mewtwo (or replace either Mewtwo or Lucario with a future 5th gen Pokemon)
Roy (or replace either Ike or Roy with a future New Lord)
:random: Mega Man

I mostly agree with this but I don't think there's really any point in bringing Roy or Mewtwo back. Roy's game never went international and it's now, what, four games back when it comes to original Fire Emblem titles. He's been left behind and that's that. At least Ike was a starring character in more than one title and the only other major FE character besides Marth to do so within the franchise (Hector and Eliwood are playable in more than one game too but I wouldn't say they have huge roles in the Binding Blade). All in all, I believe Ike should stay because of how he's presented in Brawl as what is essentially Marth's opposite. Marth is fast and agile, Ike is slow and strong (despite him being Jesus incarnate in PoR and RD and reasonably being able to take on most missions all by himself). It just works.

Also, keep in mind that if Roy did come back, there would be a freakishly high chance that he'd be made into a Luigified clone at best. Despite people wanting Ganondorf to be made more different than Captain Falcon, the developers just changed a few things. From what they've said, they don't spend a huge amount of time on characters so it's not likely that Roy would get a huge overhaul. The same could be said about Mewtwo and hoping for a completely rehashed moveset is like putting a quarter in the ground and expecting it to become a money tree; it'd be nice but far from realistic given what we've seen so far. Fire Emblem should rep the most current protagonist from that time more or less because, like Final Fantasy, only a few of the games are truly connected to each other. With that being said, backtracking for a character that was already cut once and more or less Marth with "TeH pHiRe" would take away time and energy for someone that has greater potential for bringing something new to Smash Bros.

Onto other matters, I still hate the idea of Toon Zelda because it, more or less, screams clone. You could argue that she could become Tetra but what could really be done to set regular Zelda apart from Toon Zelda? Toon Link was made mostly like regular Link despite the many different unique items and abilities he's gotten on his own adventures so Toon Zelda would be even more similar to regular Zelda given what the developers have done with characters with even mild similarities (ie; see Ganondorf/Captain Falcon). For a new Zelda rep, I still have to say Tingle despite him being my most hated Nintendo character aside from Daisy. He has his own franchise and, considering how all the "break away" Nintendo characters who have gotten their own franchises have come from the Mario franchise, I feel obligated to applaude that.

People I feel like who absolutely MUST be in the next Smash Bros: Little Mac, a Golden Sun rep, Ridley, and Megaman. That's essentially it for now. Removing my own bias, I find these to be the only characters that really need to be included. I'm still a huge fan of Geno, Muddy Mole, and Takamaru but I wouldn't list them as absolute musts for Smash Bros. Granted, I'd be thrilled to death if they all made it but it wouldn't feel like a "crime" if they weren't included like how characters like Wario and Diddy Kong weren't in Melee or how Megaman wasn't in Brawl.

 

[smashplayer16]

So what do you guys think they should do with the graphics of the game; should keep Brawl's design, or and updated version of melee's graphics, or something original.

One thing I want done to Marth is a change of design. Every smashbrothers game he has been on they always make the guy look like a female, and all with his hand on his hip and what not. Next game they need to use the "Shadow Dragon" design and man his design up http://honya-ch.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/fire-emblem-ds-marth.jpg

 

[n88]

@smashplayer

I would like them to keep Brawl's graphics. So pretty.....

Yeah, that new design for Marth was shown to Sakurai just too late to make it into Brawl. I'm sure it'll pop up in SSB4.

@fatman

Daisy is hated?

 

[Arcadenik]

N88... who else do you think should be in besides the ones I listed in the roster? I mean, the roster didn't cut out any Brawl characters and it has Ridley, Mewtwo, King K. Rool, Mega Man, Roy, Little Mac, and a second F-Zero rep... these are the most-wanted newcomers for SSB4 as far as I know... so what more do you want?

 

[DekuBoy]

I want 50 characters myself, but 45 is alright. Not much room for newcomers though.

 

[n88]

Actually, I just re-read your roster and it's got some of the characters I though it didn't have. I fail at reading. It does need Isaac, and Tingle>Toon Zelda masively. But aside from that, I'd be wiling to accept it. Hardly my fantasy roster, but a good realistic roster.

 

[Fatmanonice]

So what do you guys think they should do with the graphics of the game; should keep Brawl's design, or and updated version of melee's graphics, or something original.

One thing I want done to Marth is a change of design. Every smashbrothers game he has been on they always make the guy look like a female, and all with his hand on his hip and what not. Next game they need to use the "Shadow Dragon" design and man his design up http://honya-ch.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/fire-emblem-ds-marth.jpg

The borderline realistic graphics are nice and there are times when I pause the game simply to look at the details on some of the characters (Link and Peach come to mind).

I actually don't mind Marth's feminine look because it kind of suits his personality. Basically, he starts as a mousy guy, his sister sacrafices herself for him (thus why he wears her tiara), and then he becomes more confident as the game progresses. Some guys are just kind of girly looking and I think it serves as a good parallel to Ike (especially if they decide to go with his Radiant Dawn look in the next game).

Sakurai said it best himself, the graphics in Smash Bros are designed to look realistic without being so realistic that it would really weird you out like this:

Basically, he wanted to create a world where it was believable that the different characters from different franchises could interact with each other while at the same time staying true to their original character designs.

 

[ShinoandtheBallonFighter]

@Shino
I don't understand this Krystal hate going on. Before Brawl was released, everyone thought she was a shoo-in. Now because of some fictional rule, she's hated.

I don't hate her because of some rule i have heard...I hate her because she annoys me, and I don't like her character. Nothing about Star Fox's reps or some unwritten rule regarding roster size and series reppage.

 

[smashplayer16]

Here is another idea from the previous thread I made.

You know how the Brawl development team, teamed up with the "Team Ninja" to make the new Ninja Turtles game?; looks like its a fun casual game. How about "Sora" teams up Sega-AM2, the makers of the VirtuaFighter series . The reason for me choosing this company is because they have succeeded in making the most complex and competitive fighting game." Hal Labs" now "Sora" have focused on making smash for the the casual players on their last 3 games. With the two teams working together they can focus on making SSB4 a truly competitive game. There is no doubt that they could make the game balance as well, because if in high level Virtua Fighter play, you see every character being used.

What do you all think about this? Would you want them to team up with another company to make the game better?

 

[Thirdkoopa]

People I feel like who absolutely MUST be in the next Smash Bros: Little Mac, a Golden Sun rep, Ridley, and Megaman.

F-Zero doesn't deserve another rep at the very least? That's a must. The only two character's I'd want to see that I would understand If not included are Sukapon and Claus. Another Mario rep/GS Char are still huge possibilities.

Also as for that roster; I explained earlier about third-parties and how a second one should for sure be included along with Megaman. We don't quite really "Need" Mewtwo or Roy seeing how...Hi DLC. Heck; FE Could still easily stay with 2 (not that I think It'll happen)

Also GS Character > Starfy. Nuff said.

Other then that, as long as there's downloadable content, I'd be content with that roster (Heck, just 10 more chars than brawl + DLC Would satisfy me ), but since you didn't mention it and already 37 Slots taken up by vets...8 Newcomers...Yay? Not that I'm expecting a big ammount. Heck, the roster I have only has what? 11 Newcomers? But still...Tho you got a plausible roster number. Anything above 45 would be a bit wild when it comes to balancing and whatnot.

tl;dr: A few flaws in there, but asides from that, It's pretty realistic so I'd be fine with it.

 

[Arcadenik]

I want 50 characters myself, but 45 is alright. Not much room for newcomers though.

You know, in my opinion, removing/replacing characters can be good when it means more room for newcomers. Look at Melee and Brawl. Melee has 25 (26) characters but Brawl has 35 (39) characters. We did not gain 10 newcomers for Brawl. We lost 5 characters from Melee and gained 18 newcomers for Brawl. The roster I posted earlier... we only added back 2 of the 5 removed Melee characters and gained 8 newcomers for SSB4. It is not very impressive compared to Brawl. Frankly, I wouldn't mind removing 5 characters from Brawl and add 15 newcomers for SSB4.

My top 5 choices for removing from SSB4:
1. Jigglypuff
2. Snake
3. Lucario
4. Ike
5. Falco

 

[ScoobyCafe]

So what do you guys think they should do with the graphics of the game; should keep Brawl's design, or and updated version of melee's graphics, or something original.

Look at the promotional artwork for SSB (comic-style art), and build from there. That or take the same approach Sonic Unleashed took, i.e. cartoony graphics.

http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=7828730&postcount=20110
http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=7832585&postcount=20151

One thing I want done to Marth is a change of design. Every smashbrothers game he has been on they always make the guy look like a female, and all with his hand on his hip and what not. Next game they need to use the "Shadow Dragon" design and man his design up http://honya-ch.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/fire-emblem-ds-marth.jpg

His current design is fine. I don't scream 'female' whenever I see Marth, he really isn't that androgynous.

Shadow Dragon design could be an alt. costume, however.

 

[n88]

@smashplayer

That would be pretty cool, I guess. I don't have a great knowledge of companies, so I don't really know. But anything that leads to better balance is OK in my book.

@Arcadenik

I personally don't see any need to remove characters, but I would consider Lucario by far the most likely to get the boot. I would hate to see him go, and would gladly sacrifice Snake or Jiggly first, but I think it's more probable.

 

[Big-Cat]

(5) Here is something else; having different styles, similar to how "Streetfighter alpha 3" and "Capcom vs SNK" does with their "ism's". Just something like choosing between original smashbros. Mario, Melee's Mario, and Brawl's Mario moveset before the start of a match. Or maybe something like "Virtua Fighter" where you have certain character with and offensive/defensive style that you can change as you are already in a match fighting. Or should the mechanics of the game just be kept simple and pure, like all the other Smash titles?

Ive basically thought of idea's from other games that can be used in SSB4. So what do you guys think?, should they speed up the gameplay? or keep it the speed the same as Brawl/64? Just some thoughts that can be discussed in greater detail. Post your ideas and discuss, and lets keep the discussion pertaining to the title of this thread "Game Modes, options, and Mechanics Discussion."

I would like to see the 'isms' in the form of the clone system. Of course, this means that only certain characters like Link (Toon Link), Ness(Paula and/or Poo), Lucas(Kumatora), Fox (Falco), Marth (Roy) and some others would have this feature.

To answer that question in the first paragraph: You're preaching to the wrong crowd for this kind of idea. Most people here want Smash simple, almost for the sake of keeping Smash 'unique'.

I've brought up ideas from Street Fighter and others. My previous comments apply here as well.

As for the gameplay, I want
Hitstun back in to true combos
Speed up the gameplay to somewhere between Melee and Brawl
The characters BALANCED as much as possible
Techniques not coming from glitches and exploitation of said glitches.
Canceling tilts into Smashes and Specials
More emphasis on offense than defense

For the art style, I would much prefer that the characters are kept in their original styles. I think it emphasizes the crossover aspect of Smash better. On the other hand, the current style unites everyone. It ultimately depends on what you want.

 

[Fatmanonice]

People hate Krystal because, in a world of furries, she's the one that follows closest to what people like in the furry fetish. You had Kat in Star Fox 64 but you never saw her outside her cockpit and then along comes Krystal in what's essentially a bikini. ZoMg, a FaUx WiF bOoBs (as if anamorphic animals haven't been used in drawings as far back as cavemen)! It's kind of like how people complained about Zero Suit Samus when Brawl was first revealed because her bust size is larger than Peach or Zelda's and, supposedly, girls larger than B cup are "obscene". People are weird like that. It's like America's borderline obsession with censoring and banning curse words and nudity in the media while remaining compartively apathetic towards violence.

I like Krystal. She's the first female Nintendo character since Samus that does more than just act as another playable character and has an important role in more than one game. I really think she ought to become playable in the future for that and because, based on past games, would be easier to not cut from the "Fox cloth" like the other Star Fox characters.

 

[n88]

@Kuma

I'm okay w/all your ideas except for cancelling tilts. It just seems unnecessary/strange. Maybe make it so that some Specials can be used straight out of a tilt?

 

[Arcadenik]

Hmm... the five removed characters from Melee... why were they removed in the first place?

Dr. Mario - people complained that he is just Mario in a doctor's outfit and offered nothing new

Roy - even though more fans loved Roy than Marth, he was not the most recent lord of the Fire Emblem series

Pichu - people complained that he hurts himself whenever he uses specials and offered nothing new since he is just a baby Pikachu

Mewtwo - people complained that Mewtwo sucked even though he was a popular Pokemon

Young Link - he was more popular than adult Link but he was replaced with the most recent version of Young Link

So.... who are the characters most people are complaining about in Brawl now? I think that if a particular character gets the most complaints, that character is likely gone from the next game.

Also, I think that if a character is easily replaced in their own franchise, that character could be potentially replaced in the next game. Lucario and Ike seem to be the most likely removed from the next game and be replaced with 5th gen Pokemon and New Lord.

 

[ShinoandtheBallonFighter]

...I don't hate Krystal for her sexual apeal (or lack ther of)

Again, I hate Krystal because she annoys me. She could have been a dude for all I care, she;s annoying as hell.

 

[smashplayer16]

I would like to see the 'isms' in the form of the clone system. Of course, this means that only certain characters like Link (Toon Link), Ness(Paula and/or Poo), Lucas(Kumatora), Fox (Falco), Marth (Roy) and some others would have this feature.

To answer that question in the first paragraph: You're preaching to the wrong crowd for this kind of idea. Most people here want Smash simple, almost for the sake of keeping Smash 'unique'.

I've brought up ideas from Street Fighter and others. My previous comments apply here as well.

As for the gameplay, I want
Hitstun back in to true combos
Speed up the gameplay to somewhere between Melee and Brawl
The characters BALANCED as much as possible
Techniques not coming from glitches and exploitation of said glitches.
Canceling tilts into Smashes and Specials
More emphasis on offense than defense

For the art style, I would much prefer that the characters are kept in their original styles. I think it emphasizes the crossover aspect of Smash better. On the other hand, the current style unites everyone. It ultimately depends on what you want.

I stated in the last sentence of the paragragh, as if the game mechanics should be kept pure and simple.