I NEVER heard Sakurai talk about adding personalities. Yes, the characters have loads of it, but he would DEFIANTLY not pick characters for personalities. People do not want to play personalities. They want to play with something more. Miis have very little personalities, but people love them. Sakurai probably knows this as well. Choosing characters based on personalities will not make people like the game more or less.
I get what he was saying though. For the most part, any character can be given a moveset. Every character is doable. Doesn't mean every character is a good idea. This is just a counter argument to all the arguments based on uniqueness.
No No No. You've got it backwards. Sakurai is saying that even if the character can be playable, then putting them in the game will still make people happy. You think "See See! Sakurai believe people will just be happy with anyone as long as the characters are somewhere." When it really means, "I can't add every character people want to see. But, if I can add them somewhere, this will still make fans happy." It's not an excuse to add whom ever he wants. It's an excuse that he can't add everyone.
You just contradicted yourself in the same paragraph. People were clamoring for Pit, and Sakurai doesn't care about popularity. It makes no sence. '
The problem with your assumption is two fold
1)It's only based on the notes from GDC that say it was finished in 2005. Other sources, like Thinkman's thread, say 2006. Your argument is not based on evidence to support the claim, but on an assumption on the date that leads to another conclusion. So far, there is no evidence to support your claim. But...
2)Tell me. If Sakurai based his entire roster off of what he wanted for uniqueness, then why does the roster reflect fans demand. Why is Lucario in there. Or Olimar. Pit (there are more unique classic characters). Why add Toon Link when Young Link was unoriginal and, otherwise, not loved a lot? Why is Wolf there (Wolf is very popular in Japan and somewhat over here)? Why was Sonic even added (if what you claim is true, then why would he care about Sonic? Most people all ready complain he has an uninteresting moveset. There was more unique material)? What I'm saying is there is no reason to claim why Sakurai magically got the roster "right" in fans minds when he did a year too early and was only for his own enjoyment. If it was for his own enjoyment, wouldn't it have looked like Tatsunoko vs Capcom where the game is filled with oddball obscure characters (from Capcom's side)?
He was the same way on NinDB. But yeah, I hear yeah. I'm surprised it's not at least a trophy.[/QUOTE]
1. He mentioned it in the post E3 06 notes (AKA Sakurai's journal) and, when you think about it, it makes sense. Take Mario and Luigi, for example. Ignoring their roles within their respective franchise and their appearance (which isn't too different in this case), what really sets them apart? How Fox, Falco, and Wolf? Link and Toon Link? As I said before, Dr. Mario is the only anti-thesis to this and he's no longer part of the playable franchise anyways.
2. I agree with that but I was just saying that the characters that he mentioned weren't that bizarre when it came to adjusting them to Smash. As I've said in the past, you can lead Epona to the roster, but you can't make it practical.
3. I disagree, I do believe that Sakurai believes that simply putting certain characters in as cameos makes them happy. For example, on the Dojo, he acknowledges that Waluigi, Samurai Goroh, and Little Mac were very popular but he made them into ATs. If you go through the list of all the characters mentioned in "Sakurai's journal", you will find (aside from the third party characters obviously) that a vast majority of the characters are in Brawl but as cameos. The quote that ToiseofChoice posted can't really be interpreted any other way as his wording is no where as vague as what he says about characters usually are.
4. People were clamoring for Pit... in North America. Enormous difference. In 2005, Nsider did a poll asking people who they wanted to see most in the next Smash Bros. The results, oddly enough ended up being:
1. Wario
2. Toad
3. Waluigi
4. Hammer Bros
5. Olimar
Despite not even placing, I remember people talking about him alot... on North American forums. Sakurai does not care that much about the opinions outside Japan. Shocking, yes but it's something that needs to be known in order to view future character choices with the right mindset. That's right, the rosters everyone has been posting since 2005 don't mean Jack. The only thing he's ever said concerning territories outside of Japan is that he doesn't want to add too many Japanese exclusive characters as not to appear biased. That's pretty much it. The only contact he's ever had with the North American fans is the letter he sent to Nsider asking people how they felt about the trailer and the addition of Metaknight, Wario, Snake, ZSS, and Pit.
Pit was in the Melee poll but he had even less votes than the Ice Climbers and yet he still made it into Smash which kinds of turns the "popularity gets characters in" theory on its head. ROB is an anti-thesis to this. Mr. Game and Watch is an anti-thesis to this. Pokemon Trainer is an anti-thesis to this. The fact that the majority of new characters in Brawl were essentially "left overs" from Melee attests to this. The fact that, again, a giant chunk of the characters mentioned in Sakurai's journal were mere cameos including some of the most popular like Ridley, Waluigi, Lyn (who was argueably more popular than Ike), Little Mac, and Krystal acts as an anti-thesis too.
As for your parade of character questions (many which I've already answered):
Lucario-Reps the most recent generation. Diamond and Pearl weren't even released yet when Brawl was technically started but look at all the pokeball pokemon from that generation: piplup, bonsly, weaville, and manaphy. What do all these pokemon have in common? They were all revealed before D/P's release via movies, press releases, or episodes in the anime. As I explained in another post, Lucario was revealed earlier in 2005 in a press release and was the first fourth generation to have a movie centered around it. Just a minor note, it was also the first non-legendary pokemon to be the main focus in a pokemon movie. Lucario and the Mystery of Mew was also the first fourth generation movie so that should be noted as well.
Olimar- As I've mentioned *counts fingers but runs out* many times before, Pikmin was pretty much the only "new" franchise that was added and only became established like a day or two before Melee's release (2001). All the other franchises are older and this is even shown in Brawl's All-Star mode with Olimar being your last fight and Pokemon (originally released in 1996 in Japan) being second to last. Also to be noted, it was the only major Miyamoto franchise (the others being Mario, DK, Zelda, Star Fox, and F-Zero) that wasn't yet repped and the only new Nintendo console franchise introduced during the Gamecube generation that didn't bomb spectacularly like Odama and Geist.
Pit- Again, Melee left over and his cryptic trophy descrption should be noted as well. "Will Pit ever fight again?" If anything, like Mr. Game and Watch, Pit was probably added more as a tribute to Gunpei Yokoi than anything else. To those of you who don't know, Yokoi was the creator of the Game and Watch, Metroid, Kid Icarus, the Gameboy, Wario (as well as the Mario and first two Wario Land games), Intelligent Systems (the second party responsible for franchises like Fire Emblem, Advance Wars, and Custom Robo) and the Virtual Boy. He is also noted for being Iwata and Miyamoto's mentor and is referred to some people as Nintendo's grandfather. He died in 1997 (car accident) but is still remembered as one of the most influential men the gaming industry has ever had.
Toon Link- Essentially replaced Young Link in the Zelda franchise. Think about it, Young Link's last game was Majora's Mask while Toon Link, since then, has had the Wind Waker, both Four Swords games, the Minish Cap, Phantom Hourglass, and soon to be Spirit Tracks. The time span between Majora's Mask and Brawl is eight years so, obviously, Young Link was left far behind in favor of the new "young Link."
Wolf- As already explained, Melee left over and some argue that Wolf was originally planned for Melee anyways due to his appearance in the Melee opening trailer (where it can be seen that he looks extremelly similar to Fox). People say that Wolf was more popular in Japan than Krystal but I've seen little evidence of this even when I'd sometimes dive in the larger Japanese forums to keep myself from going crazy waiting for Brawl.
Sonic- Sonic could be argued that he's the only anti-thesis to this because Sakurai came out and said that he was added due to
extreme fanboy pressure his strong popularity. He still follows the "rules" I mentioned earlier though despite Sakurai giving him an uninspired moveset and Snake's codec suggesting that Sakurai wasn't too thrilled about adding him. You also have to keep in mind that Sonic was added nearly two years after everyone else and after (going off of what Kojima said in an interview in April 2007 after being allowed to test the game) probably around 85% of the game was done. Also, let's face it, if Sonic hadn't been added, it would have probably triggered wide spread genocide especially after the announcment of Mario and Sonic at the Olympic games (which was probably what convinced Sakurai to finally give in). It should be noted though that Yugi Naka (Sonic's creator) said in 2003 that he had approached Sakurai a few months before Melee was released but the game was too far in development to add Sonic so, adding how he was in the Melee poll, it could just as easily be argued that he was yet another left over from Melee like Snake.
Also, if you were here when Brawl was released, you'd know that many people weren't satisfied with the roster. A lot of popular choices were left on the cutting room floor and less popular characters beat out some of the megatons that ruled the forums both here and across the ocean between 2005-2008. As already pointed out *counts fingers and toes but runs out* many times before, nearly all the new characters were left overs from Melee either from the poll (Wario, Diddy, Pit, Metaknight, King Dedede, Wolf, Pokemon Trainer, and Sonic) or mentioned in interviews (Snake and Lucas) and, as already mentioned numerous times, Ike and Lucario represented the most recent additions to their respective franchises leaving Olimar (already explained) and ROB.
To finish this giant wall of text off, I have two things left to say.
1. Have you ever thought of WHY certain characters are popular? I'll tell you why, it's most often because they are interesting and unique. (Holy crap, who divided by zero?!?) For example, look at Geno; he's a possessed wooden doll that has the artillery of a small army which are equipped in compartments in his hands, wrists, and even elbows. I can't say there are many characters like that in gaming, can you? Now look at characters within their own franchises and this makes even more sense. For example, in the Kirby franchise, who are more noteworthy than Metaknight (a miniature knight who follows a strict code of chivalry and has a giant aircraft in his likeness) and King Dedede (an obese eagle who weilds a giant hammer)? Why did people in North America want Pit so much despite probably 98% of the people who wanted him never playing Kid Icarus or Of Myths and Monsters? Because he was interesting and unique and this can be said for pretty much everyone in Smash Bros. As Sakurai is human (although some would argue a troll or god depending on who you speak to), it can be assumed that he can be interested in things too. As I have said before (yes, I say a lot of things, what of it?), Sakurai is a lot like Miyamoto in how he does what he wants but a majority of the time it lines up with the fans tastes.
2. Thinkaman was not the only person who attended Sakurai's conference at GDC 08. There were other people that reported on it and also proved that Thinkaman lied about some things like Sakurai playing with three controllers at once. He's the most known though because he told his story here despite adding some "artistic liberties." From what you've said, I get the feeling that this is the only side of the story you're aware of .
