[Official SSB4 Discussion] --- Nintendo announces 2 new Smash games!

[sundayseclipse]

k rool for smash bros 4

kudos.........

 

[Phantom7]

K. Rool definitely deserves the 3rd DK rep spot - much more than Dixie, which I have seen discussions of before.

 

[UberMario]

These K.Rool vs. Dixie wars go on forever don't they?

 

[Phantom7]

So it seems. But Dixie lacks uniqueness, which is a huge plus for K. Rool. Dixie is all but unique, while K. Rool is as unique as the 3rd DK representative could get.

 

[Clownbot]

I can hear the footsteps of Pieman making his way here to start another debate already...

 

[Pieman0920]

So it seems. But Dixie lacks uniqueness, which is a huge plus for K. Rool. Dixie is all but unique, while K. Rool is as unique as the 3rd DK representative could get.

What are you talking about? Outside of costume changes (which is only superficial at best, and somewhat debatable at best, since Japan thinks that his two personas in the other two DKC games were Rool's brothers) how is K.Rool unique in any way? Dixie Kong was originally planned as a unique character in the first place, teamed up with Diddy in a manner that mimics both the ICs and Zelda/Sheik at the same time, which can still be done at this time, by either pairing her up with Diddy or Kiddy.

I can hear the footsteps of Pieman making his way here to start another debate already...

Dang it, why did you have to post before me? D:

 

[Clownbot]

Because I love to ruin things.

On a note that isn't related to a Dixie/K. Rool argument in any manner, what if (even if it probably won't happen) an entire forum was dedicated to possibilities; SSB4 debate topics (i.e. "The King K. Rool vs. Dixie Kong" Thread), possible character discussion (i.e. "The Duck Hunt Dog Support Thread!") and new gameplay features (i.e. the "Ways to improve Stage Builder" Thread).

Possible? Hell no. Potential? A S***LOAD. There could be a lot more thorogh discussion if that happened.

 

[sundayseclipse]

lol.

it would be different to have k rool i guess.

why not both. heck they deserve it. there way pass old enoght to get 1.

changing subject.

ima regret posting this*sigh*

mewtwo i beleive is comfirmed for soul silver and heart gold.(PLZ CORRECT ME IF IM WRONG) with that said *sigh* mewtwo has even more of a chance of being added.

ppl put on your argument hats cuz here we go.

 

[flyinfilipino]

On a note that isn't related to a Dixie/K. Rool argument in any manner, what if (even if it probably won't happen) an entire forum was dedicated to possibilities; SSB4 debate topics (i.e. "The King K. Rool vs. Dixie Kong" Thread), possible character discussion (i.e. "The Duck Hunt Dog Support Thread!") and new gameplay features (i.e. the "Ways to improve Stage Builder" Thread).

Possible? Hell no. Potential? A S***LOAD. There could be a lot more thorogh discussion if that happened.

Stuff like support threads would definitely explode onto the scene when the game is announced. As of right now, not many people really care that sort of stuff yet.

 

[Fatmanonice]

Stuff like support threads would definitely explode onto the scene when the game is announced. As of right now, not many people really care that sort of stuff yet.

This is true. There's no need for an entire seperate board yet considering the next Smash Bros will be announced no earlier than 2011 since that's when "Project SORA" is supposed to be finished and Sakurai will be ready to start on a new game.

 

[Wizzerd]

What are you talking about? Outside of costume changes (which is only superficial at best, and somewhat debatable at best, since Japan thinks that his two personas in the other two DKC games were Rool's brothers) how is K.Rool unique in any way? Dixie Kong was originally planned as a unique character in the first place, teamed up with Diddy in a manner that mimics both the ICs and Zelda/Sheik at the same time, which can still be done at this time, by either pairing her up with Diddy or Kiddy.

K. Rool may not be the most original villain out there, but Dixie Kong has never shown any semblance of a figment of something which might pass for originality with very little sleep. All she ever showed was that she was adventurous, which is a given with protagonists. K. Rool was shown as a psychotic multi-personality villain, which may be similar to Super Show Bowser, but at least it's ripped off from one character instead of every protagonist in existence. Clearly Rare pulled it off differently than the CD-i developers, considering that K. Rool isn't lampooned to death in YouTube Poops (for now we have to be happy with Donkey Kong Sells His Liver for Banana Cream Pie.) In moveset terms, K. Rool might not have enough potential as a Diddy/Dixie tag team (all Dixie has a chance of becoming), but he does have his blunderbuss, crown tossing, helipack and the like, making him have potential as a well-ranged heaviweight. He certainly has more potential for a unique moveset than Dixie alone, who would probably be made into a clone by Sakurai, no matter that $H3 H4BZ H3L1C0PT3R H3RZ when she has the same body structure and personality as Diddy. Before pointing out the jab combo (which is one move, mind you), remember that Dixie can just as easily use her ponytail. In fact, Sakurai could just give her a ponytail helicopter Up Special as a clone of Peach's parasol and call it a day.

On a note that isn't related to a Dixie/K. Rool argument in any manner, what if (even if it probably won't happen) an entire forum was dedicated to possibilities; SSB4 debate topics (i.e. "The King K. Rool vs. Dixie Kong" Thread), possible character discussion (i.e. "The Duck Hunt Dog Support Thread!") and new gameplay features (i.e. the "Ways to improve Stage Builder" Thread).

Possible? Hell no. Potential? A S***LOAD. There could be a lot more thorogh discussion if that happened.

That definitely should happen and will never happen. A thread with 1300-odd pages most certainly deserves its own forum, but the mods were reluctant in the first place to make this thread in the first place since it isn't directly related to the existing Smash games. It was made mainly to cut down on the huge amount of SSB4 threads.

EDIT: Super Show developers, not CD-i developers. Oops.

 

[flyinfilipino]

Not that I think it'll happen, the same Sakurai that could just clone Dixie could just K. Rool's Blunderbuss could be a clone of Samus' Charge Shot (or something). His Crown could just be a clone of Link's Boomerang. His Helipack could just be a clone of ROB's burners. Some would call those a generic projectile and recovery, no matter how in-character it is. What's left after that, claw and bite and tail attacks? Psh, those would be generic. See how fickle this sort of reasoning can be?

 

[Zario777]

I couldn't think of a moveset for Dixie Kong because she hasn't been in a 3D adventure game like Tiny Kong has. I came up with Tiny Kong's moveset using DK64, Mario Super Sluggers and my imagination.
Tiny Kong's Moveset:
A=Left Ponytail Swat
AA=Right Ponytail Swat
AAA=Kickflip (her triple A combo from DK64)
FTilt=Double Ponytail Swing
UTilt=2 Ponytail Swats Upward
DTilt=Grounded Ponytail Swipes
FSmash=Ponytail Forward Slam
USmash=Ponytail Coil
DSmash=Ponytail Side Slam
Dash A.=Dash Spin (her attack while fielding on Mario Super Sluggers)
Nair=Hair Slap Spin
Fair=Forward Hair Smack (like Ivysaur's fair)
Bair=Back Hair Slap
Uair=Kick Flip
Dair=Drill
Special=Feather Shoot (4 on screen at a time)
Side Special=Twist Kick Slide (Tiny did this in DK64 when she ran and pressed Z+B)
Recovery=Ponytail Twirl
Down Special=Orange Grenade
FS=Orange Launcher (Krusha's weapon in DK64 Multiplayer mode)

 

[Spydr Enzo]

FACEPALM-Enzo, dont be so bias. unless you can predict the future of nintindo for the next 4-9 years shut up. i can handle ppl who predict what char are gona be in, but ppl who predict char that wont, gawd thats annoying.
every character has a chance, some less then others.

unless you saw r.ob G&W or snake coming then i might accept your ideas. but if you didnt it proves how smash is very unpredictable

tho i respect some of your reasons, but we dont have all the intrivals for the eqation

They're... the same thing, predicting who will get in and who won't. But come on guys, the Duck Hunt dog? Please... There is no bias in this whatsoever, I just happen to be looking at things with a bit of realism.

Predicting what characters will be in is the same as predicting what characters will get in, just as predicting when the Sun will rise gives you all the times it won't. Spydr Enzo isn't the biased one here, Arcadenik is. And at any rate, the Duck Hunt Dog is a retro character whose only comeback would be through the Virtual Console.

Thank you n88_2004.

OH MY GAWD NOT DIXIE VS. K. ROOL AGAIN!

Anyway, I'm sad to say I have to agree with Pieman. I'm too lazy to go into details right now like I usually do, but overall, Sakurai has payed more attention to Dixie and seems to have more interest in her than he does with K. Rool. I think I'm going to side with Sakurai on this one, because, overall, he creates/designs the games anyway. And while Dixie Kong may not be "unique", K. Rool seriously isn't much more unique than her. He's pretty much Bowser with Ganondorf's build, so he's pretty much... a reptilian version of Ganondorf without the Black Magic. What unique thing can he bring to the series? You could say the same for Dixie, she's just a female version of Diddy Kong, so neither of the two can be compared when it comes to who is unique and who isn't.

BUT, the reason Sakurai considered Dixie was because she was going to be paired on a tag team with Diddy, kind of like a Ice Climbers mix with Zelda/Shiek. While it isn't very unique, it's certainly not very common on the smash scene, so I guess you could say Dixie is a bit more unique if she was put in this position, which is what was originally intended for her. Anyway, we know Dixie was cut later in the game along with Toon Zelda/Toon Shiek, and this is also very evident by Diddy's unoriginal Down Special, in which he just throws items. This move was obviously incororated late into the game. Plus, the awkward position he gets in when doing this move looks as if he is reaching back to tag Dixie like in Donkey Kong Country. Just some observations. But anyway, Dixie was most likely cut from this position due to time, so whats to say she won't appear like this in the next game? It's definately more unique than K. Rool.

I will also admit that K. Rool does have pretty good chances, and I wouldn't be surprised to see him instead of Dixie.

 

[sundayseclipse]

mewtwo is comfirmed lengenary pokemon in silver and gold. rasing chance of being brought back

change subject plz. i dis like tne dk i hate mew2 but i perfer that argument

 

[Spydr Enzo]

mewtwo is comfirmed lengenary pokemon in silver and gold. rasing chance of being brought back

change subject plz. i dis like tne dk i hate mew2 but i perfer that argument

...wow. I hate these Mewtwo arguments, the only reason people support him is bias. By the time of SSB4, there will be much better choices for Pokemon. And he's not getting in over Lucario, I don't care about his **** popularity, it really isn't enough of an outcry to change anything.

 

[SmashChu]

Point one response: He said he wants all the Smash characters to bring something new to the table even if it's just their personality and that players would genuinely want to play with them if they saw them in action. With that being said, Dr. Mario is the only anti-thesis to this (regarding the personality bit) and he's no longer in Smash anyways.

I NEVER heard Sakurai talk about adding personalities. Yes, the characters have loads of it, but he would DEFIANTLY not pick characters for personalities. People do not want to play personalities. They want to play with something more. Miis have very little personalities, but people love them. Sakurai probably knows this as well. Choosing characters based on personalities will not make people like the game more or less.

Point two response: This is very true but most of the people you mentioned did have stuff to work with. All the "rule breaking" characters still stayed true to their character and weren't stretched past their own basic traits. For example, the Ice Climber still use team work, ice, and their hammers to get by despite playing much different than the original Ice Climber game.

I get what he was saying though. For the most part, any character can be given a moveset. Every character is doable. Doesn't mean every character is a good idea. This is just a counter argument to all the arguments based on uniqueness.

Point three response: As said in the past, that's why so many characters became trophies/stickers/ATs and pretty much what the poll was about since the roster was already decided. As it says right there, Sakurai believes that players are happy if their favorite characters appear, even if it's little more than a minor cameo.

No No No. You've got it backwards. Sakurai is saying that even if the character can be playable, then putting them in the game will still make people happy. You think "See See! Sakurai believe people will just be happy with anyone as long as the characters are somewhere." When it really means, "I can't add every character people want to see. But, if I can add them somewhere, this will still make fans happy." It's not an excuse to add whom ever he wants. It's an excuse that he can't add everyone.

Point four response: Not to be whiny but I hate it when people say "no body knew them." A decent number of people were clamoring for Pit after Brawl was pseudo announced at E3 05 and Fire Emblem has been decently popular since it was released in all four major regions. I prefer to say that they weren't known by the general populace because, given the majority of people who play Nintendo games, Mario, Pokemon, Kirby, and Zelda are the only franchises that most people are familar with. Again, with this in mind, this is probably why a character's popularity is lower on Sakurai's list of importance when it comes to letting them into Smash. If it were merely the opinion of the general populace, characters like Waluigi and Daisy would no doubt already be playable.

[/QUOTE]

You just contradicted yourself in the same paragraph. People were clamoring for Pit, and Sakurai doesn't care about popularity. It makes no sence. '

The problem with your assumption is two fold
1)It's only based on the notes from GDC that say it was finished in 2005. Other sources, like Thinkman's thread, say 2006. Your argument is not based on evidence to support the claim, but on an assumption on the date that leads to another conclusion. So far, there is no evidence to support your claim. But...
2)Tell me. If Sakurai based his entire roster off of what he wanted for uniqueness, then why does the roster reflect fans demand. Why is Lucario in there. Or Olimar. Pit (there are more unique classic characters). Why add Toon Link when Young Link was unoriginal and, otherwise, not loved a lot? Why is Wolf there (Wolf is very popular in Japan and somewhat over here)? Why was Sonic even added (if what you claim is true, then why would he care about Sonic? Most people all ready complain he has an uninteresting moveset. There was more unique material)? What I'm saying is there is no reason to claim why Sakurai magically got the roster "right" in fans minds when he did a year too early and was only for his own enjoyment. If it was for his own enjoyment, wouldn't it have looked like Tatsunoko vs Capcom where the game is filled with oddball obscure characters (from Capcom's side)?

I don't really support the Duck Hunt Dog either but I've known Arcadenik since 2005 (when we were both on Nsider) and I definately give him props for supporting the character for so long. I do believe that Duck Hunt NEEDS to be represented in a bigger way; an assist trophy, a stage, an item, SOMETHING besides a trophy or a few crappy stickers. There's no denying that Duck Hunt was a pretty big game in Nintendo's history and, if you ask me, it's been horrifically overlooked.

He was the same way on NinDB. But yeah, I hear yeah. I'm surprised it's not at least a trophy.

 

[Arcadenik]

So, basically the essay is saying that the Metroid franchise did not get the proper representation in Brawl because having...

- Samus, the main character, as a playable character
- Zero Suit Samus, said main character without her Power Suit, as a playable character
- Ridley, the most popular Metroid boss, as a boss
- Meta Ridley, said popular Metroid boss in meta form, as a boss
- Metroid, the important generic enemy and namesake of the franchise, as an Assist Trophy
- Brinstar from Super Metroid as a stage
- Norfair from Metroid: Zero Mission as a stage
- Frigate Orpheon from Metroid Prime as a stage
- Screw Attack, the most popular and powerful power-up, as an item
- many trophies, stickers, and songs

...is obviously overly foolish and just plain dumb on Sakurai's part. Having Ridley as a playable character is the only way to adequately represent the Metroid franchise. Its the only way to do it justice. Right.

 

[ToiseOfChoice]

Toise, you misunderstood my post. That's okay, I should have edited it, I saw it coming... Anyway, I didn't mean WarioWare doesn't have any characters, I only ment to say it doesn't have any chances (okay, it has a .0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001 chance). And also, I did mention that interest is Sakurai's main focus and the main factor for deciding characters (after the universal factor of if they are important to their series or not). But if the character can bring something new to the game, such as a new play-style or just on under-used one, they might appeal a bit more to Sakurai. After that if the character is popular, they become another likely candidate.

Yeah I didn't see it until I got home today that you meant chances instead of characters. Not a bad primer for people unfamiliar with Wario though. Anyway, the general criteria you list for Sakurai to take interest are this:

- Popularity (both Mona and Syrup are very popular to the people who play their games, in fact people went nuts when Syrup was revealed to be in Shake It)
- Importance (Mona's in every WarioWare game with Jimmy T., Syrup is the first and only recurring villian in Wario Land)
- Originality (lots of people have suggested some wacky minigame based moveset for Mona, or at the very least something with mopeds and guitars; Syrup has a thing for expensive gadgets and magical treasures)

Looks pretty appealing to me. As I said earlier, only two things will stop a new Wario character: Sakurai saying Mona shouldn't fight and not really caring/noticing Captain Syrup, or a preference to focus on other characters from other series.


Fatman: SmashChu already said a lot of stuff I was gonna say but I'm gonna say stuff anyway.

1. There aren't any characters from anything anywhere that completely lack personality. Dr. Mario only lacks personality if you take out the Mario part. But I was referring to moveset potential, in which case having 3 variations on the same basic moveset really shows how apathetic he can be towards that.

2. Here's an example of a "unique" character breaking conventions: Lucario is the only character ever to increase his power by how messed up he is. That breaks the Smash rule that moves have a fixed value for power. It also breaks the source rule since Steadfast (the trait Lucario can have in the games) increases his speed when he flinches. His power in Pokemon doesn't change with his HP.

Now take something like Mother Brain in its original form (ignore the SM version for now). Giant brain in a jar, completely immobile, has one eye laser attack and mostly relies on those little bubbles to damage Samus. Could you turn it into a fighter? I bet someone could. But it wouldn't function anything remotely close to the original since it'd have to move and it'd need more than one attack.

Okay, Mother Brain is too obvious of an example, but you probably get the idea. Some characters really don't work too well. Alternatively, Sakurai doesn't want to see Ganon choking puppies. I don't blame him.

3. Yeah, this is really Sakurai's way of saying "anything is better than nothing." There's not much else to say on that.

4. I was talking about characters whose mere presence can move games in rebuttal to the claim that no one buys WarioWare games for Mona and friends (which was definitely true of the first game). You make a random game and stick Mario on the cover, it sells millions. You put Tingle in a Zelda game without Link, it sells 250k at best.

Considering the amount of kids who didn't know who Pit was, that should qualify for "nobody knew him." In fact most of my friends didn't recognize him even though I played Kid Icarus with them back in the early 90's. And while Fire Emblem as a series was known, Ike was not. Path of Radiance came out in Japan a month before E3 05 and wouldn't come out in the rest of the world until the end of the year. I distinctly recall people responding to Ike's announcement with "NEW CHARACTER! I don't know this guy, but he looks cool" rather than "YES IT'S IKE!"

Also it's ignorant to assume people only recognize Mario, Pokemon, Zelda, and Kirby. While they (and DK) are the best selling playable franchises, it doesn't mean only people who dwell on the internet are familiar with F-Zero or Fire Emblem. And this is regardless of Smash, since I know a few people with titles from those series who never got into Smash Bros.

Lastly, regarding when Sakurai made his roster: I'm pretty sure he made his first draft in 2005 right after the meeting (which probably had Roy and Mewtwo but no Wolf). The final version minus Sonic was done in 2006.



Regarding K. Rool vs. Dixie, I haven't seen any conclusive arguement to pick one over the other. They're both relevant, popular, and anyone could make up a moveset for either one (pretty sure Dixie already has one if Sakurai was intending to add her, $5 says Diddy clone though). It's too close to call right now.

The Duck Hunt dog is alright, but considering all he did was pick up birds and laugh, I doubt it. Also Sakurai could care less about properly "representing" bundled games and peripherals.

I'm 99% certain Sakurai will make an effort to have Ridley work. Whether that effort is successful or not is pretty much the defining factor for his inclusion. Also Arcadenik I recommend you don't read Snakey's essays, most of them are pretty ********.

 

[Clownbot]

Also Arcadenik I recommend you don't read Snakey's essays, most of them are pretty ********.

How so?

Spoiler

10howsos

 

[Arcadenik]

The Melee roster reflects what the Japanese fans wanted for Melee, according to the Melee poll.

Characters added in Melee from the Melee poll:
- Bowser (169, #1 in Mario category)
- Peach (66, #2 in Mario category)
- Mewtwo (35, #1 in Pokemon category)
- Ganondorf (36, #1 in Zelda category)
- Young Link (8, #2 in Zelda category)
- Zelda (8, #2 in Zelda category)
- Sheik (8, #2 in Zelda category)
- Falco (7, #1 in Star Fox category)
- Marth (21, #1 in Fire Emblem category)
- Popo and Nana (4, #9 in Other category)

The Brawl roster reflects what the Japanese fans wanted in Melee, according to the Melee poll.

Characters added in Brawl from the Melee poll:
- Wario (65, #3 in Mario category)
- Red (18, #3 in Pokemon category)
- King Dedede (46, #1 in Kirby category)
- Meta Knight (11, #3 in Kirby category)
- Wolf (4, #3 in Star Fox category)
- Diddy Kong (15, #3 in Rare category)
- Pit (5, #6 in Other category)
- Sonic (3, #5 in Third Party category)

The Brawl roster also reflects what the Japanese fans wanted in Brawl, according to the Brawl poll.

Characters added in Brawl from the Brawl poll:
- Wind Waker Link (3, #1 in Zelda category)
- Ganon/Ganondorf (1, #2 in Zelda category)
- King Dedede (5, #1 in Kirby category)
- Lucas (2, #1 in Mother category)
- Wolf (1, #2 in Star Fox category)
- Ike (4, #1 in Fire Emblem category)
- Diddy Kong (4, #1 in Donkey Kong category)
- Olimar (3, #1 in Other category)

If this still hold true for SSB4, then the SSB4 roster might reflect what the fans wanted in Melee and Brawl, according to both polls.

Characters who might or might not be added to SSB4 from the Melee poll:
- Toad (27, #4 in Mario category)
- Meowth (8, #6 in Pokemon category)
- Mega Man (3, #5 in Third Party category)

Characters who might or might not be added to SSB4 from the Brawl poll:
- Geno (4, #1 in Mario category)
- Toad (1, #2 in Mario category)
- Krystal (3, #1 in Star Fox category)
- King K. Rool (2, #2 in Donkey Kong category)
- Diddy Kong & Dixie Kong (1, #3 in Donkey Kong category)
- Ridley (4, #1 in Metroid category)
- Isaac (2, #1 in Golden Sun category)
- Little Mac (1, #1 in Punch-Out category)
- Takamaru (3, #1 in Other category)
- Mega Man (2, #1 in Third Party category)
- Simon Belmont (1, #2 in Third Party category)

It is highly likely that there would be a poll for SSB4 in Japan and some (if not all) of the most-wanted characters on that poll would likely be playable in SSB4 along with the next most-wanted characters from Melee and Brawl polls.

 

[ToiseOfChoice]

He makes a lot of baseless assumptions regarding popularity (especially with the Japanese), "deservedness," and moveset potential. Lots of bias for certain characters. Generally picks some pretty bad points to argue over (the "Olimar is the size of a quarter" argument convinced nobody ever in the history of anything). The articles themselves feel kinda forced too, it's like he's writing an assignment for a junior high English class ("Overall, I feel that...").

Maybe it's just me, but I certainly feel dumber having read them.

 

[Clownbot]

the "Olimar is the size of a quarter" argument convinced nobody ever in the history of anything

I'd really hate to turn this into another Ridley debate, but saying that Ridley is too big for Smash is still an absurd argument. I don't know your standpoint on his inclusion, but he's the most deserving Metroid character as of right now. (I'm not trying to include representatives here, guys. )

 

[ToiseOfChoice]

Ridley is actually my most wanted character in Smash 4 and I'm pretty confident that Sakurai can make him work. I'm just saying that some of the scaling arguments people make are pretty flawed. Fully extended, he should be bigger than Bowser, but that's only when he flies and attacks. His skinny body allows for a relatively compact neutral stance without having to compromise most of his size.

Plus, you know, there's no rule that says Bowser is always the biggest.

 

[Arcadenik]

Toise, don't forget how ignorant and biased his essays sound. I mean, he said Zero Suit Samus is not worthy to be playable before Ridley and how Sakurai turned Samus into a sex object. Hello! Zero Suit Samus IS Samus, the main character of the Metroid franchise, only without the Power Suit. Also, Samus has always been a sex object since the first Metroid game. Samus takes off her Power Suit and wears a sexy bikini if you beat the game fast enough. Yeah, Zero Suit Samus is basically the "Justin Bailey" Samus reimagined in Metroid: Zero Mission (the remake of the original game).

If anything, his essay is too biased if he's saying Ridley deserves to be in the game before the main character of the franchise. Also, the last sentence in his essay really shows how biased (and maybe self-centered) he truly is. He said "Ridley is looking to be the most requested character for Smash 4 so to leave Ridley out of my roster would be overly foolish and just plain dumb."

 

[pacmansays]

Can everyone just please stop the petty arguing? You are all just arguing over semantics and no one is going to change their opinion.

You're all trying to make predict the future when really we can't be sure of who will or who won't be in the next game. You're allowed to have favourites for future games and yes you can have an opinion on it but saying you can know who will be in it is a bit silly (unless you believe you're psychic)

 

[Clownbot]

Sorry, pacman, I can never resist a good debate.

@Arc: Yeah, except Ridley IS one of the most requested characters for Smash 4. His last sentence doesn't seem too biased to me, considering it's a fact.

EDIT: @your edit: He was talking about the roster for his SSB4 project, not the ACTUAL SSB4 roster.

 

[Pieman0920]

mewtwo is comfirmed lengenary pokemon in silver and gold. rasing chance of being brought back

change subject plz. i dis like tne dk i hate mew2 but i perfer that argument

Brought it a bit down there.

Mewtwo, last I heard, was unconfirmed for HG/SS but that's not really the issue. The issue is that every Pokemon that was a legendary in Pokemon is still going to be a legendary in the next game, so Mewtwo's chances are uneffected. His chances will only rise in this game if he isn't the standard legendary who sits in a cave until you reach him, and instead takes a actual role in the story. Seeing as these are remakes of Gold and Silver, he shouldn't have a bigger role, and thus his chances are not increased by this game. As I said before, the inclusion of a second generation Pokemon becomes greater with these games, although that probably won't go anywhere, since the Pokemon series will probably have entered a new generation by the time SSB4 shows up.

Characters who might or might not be added to SSB4 from the Brawl poll:
- Geno (4, #1 in Mario category)
- Toad (1, #2 in Mario category)
- Krystal (3, #1 in Star Fox category)
- King K. Rool (2, #2 in Donkey Kong category)
- Diddy Kong & Dixie Kong (1, #3 in Donkey Kong category)
- Ridley (4, #1 in Metroid category)
- Isaac (2, #1 in Golden Sun category)
- Little Mac (1, #1 in Punch-Out category)
- Takamaru (3, #1 in Other category)
- Mega Man (2, #1 in Third Party category)
- Simon Belmont (1, #2 in Third Party category)

One, may I remind you that since the whole poll was never given to us, and most of the characters who are shown there only have 3-2 votes (minus Ridley and Geno of course) I don't think its a good idea to base your speculation around that poll.

Two, wouldn't Isaac and Little Mac be part of the "Other"category like Takamaru?

 

[Wizzerd]

He makes a lot of baseless assumptions regarding popularity (especially with the Japanese), "deservedness," and moveset potential. Lots of bias for certain characters. Generally picks some pretty bad points to argue over (the "Olimar is the size of a quarter" argument convinced nobody ever in the history of anything). The articles themselves feel kinda forced too, it's like he's writing an assignment for a junior high English class ("Overall, I feel that...").

Baseless assumptions? He has done research on 2ch, and the only reason he lacks sources is that 2ch purges topics at a certain length. I will never understand why people mock "deservedness." It's only THE ENTIRE BASIS OF ROSTERS. Every point you've ever made about a character being popular or having moveset potential is an aspect of it and you use it in every post in the thread. Moveset potential is an aspect of deservedness. Bias? He's said that he likes certain characters and dislikes others, but still he presented many reasons for his inclusion of Lip, and he even had Krystal in his roster for a while, despite his strong dislike of the oversexualized pile of fanservice like any rational person. "Olimar is the size of a quarter" is plenty valid. Plenty of Pikmin players noticed for a while that a character shown to be half the height of a GCN memory card in the instruction manual, but they got over it. Ridley fans can get over it too. You lose all respect with the final comment. Is it such a big deal?

Maybe it's just me, but I certainly feel dumber having read them.

It's just you.

Toise, don't forget how ignorant and biased his essays sound. I mean, he said Zero Suit Samus is not worthy to be playable before Ridley and how Sakurai turned Samus into a sex object. Hello! Zero Suit Samus IS Samus, the main character of the Metroid franchise, only without the Power Suit. Also, Samus has always been a sex object since the first Metroid game. Samus takes off her Power Suit and wears a sexy bikini if you beat the game fast enough. Yeah, Zero Suit Samus is basically the "Justin Bailey" Samus reimagined in Metroid: Zero Mission (the remake of the original game).

Oh my god, does anybody even care that ZSS is technically Samus? She's a transformation of Samus whose sole important role was in Zero Mission, being limited to a quick picture prize in all others. It takes a couple of brain cells to realize that ZSS is a character created for the sole purpose of giving Smash an Ivy. No, Samus has never been such a sex object. If you're turned on by an 8-bit NES bikini, then stop playing Smash and play Custer's Revenge or something. Even in the other Metroid games, ZSS had a slender and athletic build and her suit was more of an athletic suit. Now ZSS has the body of a supermodel, and her suit is like a bathing suit.

If anything, his essay is too biased if he's saying Ridley deserves to be in the game before the main character of the franchise. Also, the last sentence in his essay really shows how biased (and maybe self-centered) he truly is. He said "Ridley is looking to be the most requested character for Smash 4 so to leave Ridley out of my roster would be overly foolish and just plain dumb."

ZSS ain't the main character, really. She's a side character who cameos at the end as a prize. Congratulations, Freud, you demonstrated your skills in psychoanalysis. That really proves nothing, especially when it is his project.

 

[UberMario]

Who else thinks Meta-Knight should use a moveset more similar to his KSS moveset.
(i.e. hyper-offense, no defense)
In brawl he has exactly . . . one move that he had in Kirby Super Star.
(This is a serious post BTW)

 

[Pieman0920]

Technically for his specials, only his Up B was something that he had never done. The Down B he does in the intro for his fight in Super Star, and both the neutral and side specials were dervived from attacks he had in that game, even if they were not 100% the same.

Also in regards to Ridley, I don't get that one point about how fans woudn't like seeing him smaller. What fans are these people talking to? >_>

 

[MasterWarlord]

Making Ridley smaller would apparantely "take away his bad @ssery". So yeah.

There are plenty of characters far more deserving of moveset remixes then Meta Knight, and MK's pretty much already exactly like you described. . .Except broken so it doesn't matter, of course.

 

[Heartz♥]

Making Ridley smaller would apparantely "take away his bad @ssery". So yeah.

Was that sarcasm?

If so, lolol.

If not, I would disagree for the simple fact that there will always be fighters that will be "watered-down" when put in a Smash roster. Ganondorf is the obvious example, yet he is still thought as an awesome character. People actually struggle maining him just because he is the King of Power and Darkness.

Besides, Ridley wasn't even bad@ss in Subspace Emissary as a "boss". He got uber shocked by Pikachu, and Dragon-types aren't even supposed to be that much effected by Electric moves.

 

[UberMario]

Technically for his specials, only his Up B was something that he had never done. The Down B he does in the intro for his fight in Super Star, and both the neutral and side specials were dervived from attacks he had in that game, even if they were not 100% the same.

His side B is from the Master ability in KAtAM, but I haven't seen him do it personally, until MetaKnightmare Ultra, which came after Brawl.
At the start of the KSS battle, he drops his cape, and jumps upwards really fast.

 

[MasterWarlord]

Was that sarcasm?

If so, lolol.

If not, I would disagree for the simple fact that there will always be fighters that will be "watered-down" when put in a Smash roster. Ganondorf is the obvious example, yet he is still thought as an awesome character. People actually struggle maining him just because he is the King of Power and Darkness.

Besides, Ridley wasn't even bad@ss in Subspace Emissary as a "boss". He got uber shocked by Pikachu, and Dragon-types aren't even supposed to be that much effected by Electric moves.

Of course not. I whole heartedly support Ridley. Pieman asked for the "reasoning" of those who go against him, so I gave it to him. I fully agree with you.

 

[sundayseclipse]

to whom ever said olimar is a size of a quarter,hes not. Distant planet is just ****ing huge. then again i may be wrong.

any way. sakurai cant ignore the fans. we deserve ridley. nuff said.
whats the probability project sora's main character well be in smash.

 

[Clownbot]

I REALLY hope you're joking on the first part of your post.

Project Sora? Well, we have to wait first, but I'd say not, for now.

 

[Pieman0920]

Besides, Ridley wasn't even bad@ss in Subspace Emissary as a "boss". He got uber shocked by Pikachu, and Dragon-types aren't even supposed to be that much effected by Electric moves.

Ridley could be Fire/Flying, and Flying is weak to Electric moves.

Also UberMario, they are still Metaknight's moves from in game, so what's the problem? The fact that they don't come from KSS doesn't really mean anything.

 

[sundayseclipse]

I REALLY hope you're joking on the first part of your post.

Project Sora? Well, we have to wait first, but I'd say not, for now.

...no distant planet, everything is just huge. that bulborn in brawl explains it.
hes suppose to come up to marios sholdiers....but yah.

 

[n88]

to whom ever said olimar is a size of a quarter,hes not. Distant planet is just ****ing huge. then again i may be wrong.

You are wrong. Click the next arrow.