[Official SSB4 Discussion] --- Nintendo announces 2 new Smash games!

[Spydr Enzo]

You'd better edit your post before Arcadenik eats you.

Any 3rd Party series getting a new character is questionable, at best. As for WarioWare, it's in the same situation as Yoshi, and since Yoshi has yet to get a new character, I doubt it'll happen.

Also, I think you're being a bit drastic on that last paragraph, if you know what I mean.

I know what you mean... but seriously, I have seen quite a few supporters of the duck hunt dog. Quite sad actually...

But yeah, Third Party series in general is questionable. Sonic and Snake might not even return, but I doubt that will happen. Anything can happen when it comes to Third Party series, except one thing: getting more than one character, I seriously doubt that will happen.

 

[Starphoenix]

Wow, certain individuals in this thread really had their heads handed to them. But I digress...

And MasterWarlord, I understand that some of the people here aren't in the SSB4 Discussion group like you, me, Phantom, and filipino, but instead of mocking/ridiculing the people here, try to help them see the light. While this thread is filled with those who are horrible at speculating SSB4 and constantly bring up worthless arguments or pointless characters, there are a few smart people here. Pieman is good at backing up his choices unlike a lot of people here, though many of his choices may be obscure and make no sense. n88_2004 is a good debater, and Fatmanonice is the best I've seen here. Others like Clownbot and ToiseOfChoice are up there too. Don't come here to ridicule people, come here to help other people see the light of SSB4.

What, no mention of mwa? I am offended, sure I get a little rabid on the subject of Slime's inclusion in a future release, but other than that I can be intelligent. This place just drains me of it most of the time. lol

BTW, what is even the subject of discussion at this point? I am tired of Mewtwo, Ridley, Third Party Character flame wars (even though I participated in the Mewtwo ones). In fact, characters in general are rather tiring at this point. Lets discuss music.

How do you think Sakurai or whoever produces the next Smash will improve upon My Music? What dp ypu speculate could happen to most of the tracks in Brawl when in transition? We have 300+ songs right now, a decent amount remixes and some ports. Do you think most all get cut, return or more picking and choosing? I think this really becomes a problem once you consider that the stages in Smash 4 will be different from the ones in Brawl. Changing the atmosphere and potentially how well that song fits. Even though Midna's Lament may sort of fit on Bridge of Eldin, it could feel out of place in an even more dynamic stage from the future Legend of Zelda Wii. We know new installments in established series will be included. Such as Mario Galaxy, Legend of Zelda Wii, Metroid: Other M, and whatever else is in the future.

I do feel sorry for whoever does have to make this decision in the future, if they leave it too much as it is they will be accused of being lazy; change too much and people will complain about their songs being out.

Only thing I would like to see from My Music in the future is the ability to pick a specific track right before a match, an option that can be toggled on or off. That is truly it.

 

[Pieman0920]

^I think the best idea in terms of that, is to have a option in My Music that automatically plays that specific song if the R button (or equivilent) is held down when selecting the stage.

As for music selection, while there will be songs that will be cut, I don't think it will be that big of a deal. There still will be past stages to host a good deal of the past game's music, and any that were cut could be placed into appropriate levels when necesary.

Speaking of this, what do you guys think will be the returning stages? I personally would like a good mix of stages from each of the games, but thinking about what woud be added or cut seems a bit difficult. For instance, what would really be better, having Hyrule Castle, or Temple? For that matter, what would be better returning, Eldin Bridge or the Pirate Ship? Which of Metroid's three lava levels would be best, or would it just be better to not include any of them? Should there be multiple past stages from one series?

 

[Spydr Enzo]

Wow, certain individuals in this thread really had their heads handed to them. But I digress...



What, no mention of mwa? I am offended, sure I get a little rabid on the subject of Slime's inclusion in a future release, but other than that I can be intelligent. This place just drains me of it most of the time. lol

BTW, what is even the subject of discussion at this point? I am tired of Mewtwo, Ridley, Third Party Character flame wars (even though I participated in the Mewtwo ones). In fact, characters in general are rather tiring at this point. Lets discuss music.

How do you think Sakurai or whoever produces the next Smash will improve upon My Music? What dp ypu speculate could happen to most of the tracks in Brawl when in transition? We have 300+ songs right now, a decent amount remixes and some ports. Do you think most all get cut, return or more picking and choosing? I think this really becomes a problem once you consider that the stages in Smash 4 will be different from the ones in Brawl. Changing the atmosphere and potentially how well that song fits. Even though Midna's Lament may sort of fit on Bridge of Eldin, it could feel out of place in an even more dynamic stage from the future Legend of Zelda Wii. We know new installments in established series will be included. Such as Mario Galaxy, Legend of Zelda Wii, Metroid: Other M, and whatever else is in the future.

I do feel sorry for whoever does have to make this decision in the future, if they leave it too much as it is they will be accused of being lazy; change too much and people will complain about their songs being out.

Only thing I would like to see from My Music in the future is the ability to pick a specific track right before a match, an option that can be toggled on or off. That is truly it.

Sorry, I just don't see you around here as often and I haven't seen/don't remember any of your "intelligent" posts, although I'm not saying you haven't had any.

But anyway, This is what I picture happening with the music...

First of all, not all of the songs from Brawl will return. I know that several of them will be scrapped. I'm also pretty sure that many or most of the songs will return from Brawl, but they will stay in their Brawl versions rather than the song being completely re-made for the next game. I'm sure a few may be remade, like the Brinstar song from Metroid or the Ground Theme from Super Mario Bros. and other familiar, important songs. Then, a lot of songs from past Nintendo games (as well as quite a few from future games) will be in the game, hopefully not too many originals. Oh yeah, and a few of the songs that were just originals in Brawl might be remixed. This is what I picture happening with music.

I don't think there will be any other mechanics or game modes or anything for My Music. Its fine how it is, we just need some new songs is all.

 

[Fatmanonice]

although i hate how often shadow and certain characters are brought up, theres one key fact you're looking over...

you don't know. you simply don't. No one knows who'll be in the next game. Not even the makers know. If I had told you 5 years ago that Olimar was gunna be a playable character, you would have laughed in my face. 80% of people wouldn't have even given it a second thought.

There shouldn't be any limit as to who's inclusion can be discussed for the next game.

Actually, I wouldn't have because, unlike the other people I mentioned. Olimar had a strong demand, even back then, and was the only major Miyamoto franchise not yet represented in Smash. Also, we do have a strong idea on who Sakurai's actually interested in and, again, they are mostly highlighted by their unique qualities. There is no evidence for the people I mentioned and a lot of them either 1. heavily copy off another character or 2. are complete blank slates which, history has shown, Sakurai only a few per game and they usually represent their own franchises.

 

[Starphoenix]

Speaking of this, what do you guys think will be the returning stages? I personally would like a good mix of stages from each of the games, but thinking about what woud be added or cut seems a bit difficult. For instance, what would really be better, having Hyrule Castle, or Temple? For that matter, what would be better returning, Eldin Bridge or the Pirate Ship? Which of Metroid's three lava levels would be best, or would it just be better to not include any of them? Should there be multiple past stages from one series?

Without a doubt the best Metroid stage is Norfair, that stage alone vastly improves upon Brinstar by giving you more room to fight.

There could be multiple returning stages, I highly doubt it since they will just end up making more new ones. That being said, if they decide to include a Melee stage (albeit port or reconstruction) will be fascinating to see. Especially in Earthbound's case.

Also, we do have a strong idea on who Sakurai's actually interested in.

The only character I heard Sakurai talk about was Ken Masters in reference to his "moveset doll" during his post-mortum or whatever it is called after Brawl was released. I doubt that means much in the end.

 

[Spydr Enzo]

Speaking of this, what do you guys think will be the returning stages? I personally would like a good mix of stages from each of the games, but thinking about what woud be added or cut seems a bit difficult. For instance, what would really be better, having Hyrule Castle, or Temple? For that matter, what would be better returning, Eldin Bridge or the Pirate Ship? Which of Metroid's three lava levels would be best, or would it just be better to not include any of them? Should there be multiple past stages from one series?

SUPER SMASH BROS. ~ 5
Hyrule Temple
Sector Z
Saffron City
Planet Zebes*
Mushroom Kingdom*

SUPER SMASH BROS. MELEE ~ 9
Rainbow Cruise
Kongo Jungle
Hyrule Temple
Yoshi’s Island
Icicle Mountain
Brinstar Depths*
Poke Floats*
Big Blue*
Fourside*

SUPER SMASH BROS. BRAWL ~ 11
Delfino Plaza
Rumble Falls
Frigate Orpheon
Lylat Cruise
Smashville
Skyworld
Battleship Halberd*
Castle Siege*
Pirate Ship*
Spear Pillar*
Pictochat*

(* = unlockable)

I tried as hard as I could to balance out the stages per series and make it fair. Most series had some unlockable stages, but others like Yoshi and Starfox didn't. Yoshi, Kirby, F-Zero, Mother, and Fire Emblem only got one stage while Mario, Pokemon, and Legend of Zelda got three. Also, I didn't keep any Flatzone stages, seeing as it would be too similar to a future Flatzone stage. And out of the three stage series from Brawl, only Animal Crossing and Pictochat returned. There is a total of 25 past stages.. a bit much, but I feel it would work.

-SUPER SMASH BROS. ~ I based my choices on the stages that didn't appear as past stages in Melee. I just thought that the others should get some representation, considering they were better than the crappy ones put in Melee in the first place. These stages were very popular as well. The only one not included was Peach's Castle, but thats because I already have the Mushroom Kingdom one up there, which is much better and more popular. Planet Zebes was unlockable just because I feel its so awesome you have to earn it, and Mushroom Kingdom was unlockable in the original game so it only makes sense.

-SUPER SMASH BROS. MELEE ~ Because of the larger selection, Melee has more stages. All the unlockable stages are the ones that were unlockable in Melee, so I guess its appropriate. Yoshi, F-Zero, and Mother got their single representation here in the Melee stages. This features the second unlockable Metroid stage as well. Among the main series, Kirby, Fire Emblem, and Starfox weren't represented at all with any Melee stages (Fire Emblem didn't have any anyway). Retro series got a stage with Icicle Mountain, and no flatzone for reasons I stated before. Also, I intermixed new Melee stages with some featured as past stages in Brawl.

-SUPER SMASH BROS. BRAWL ~ Brawl has a larger selection of stages than Melee with eleven stages. Only two of the featured unlockable stages were actually unlockable in Brawl originally (Spear Pillar and Pirate Ship). I chose Pirate Ship over the Bridge because it represents past stages for Toon series, and we already have two mainstream Zelda stages. This section features DKs secind past stage and Mario, Pokemon, Metroid, and Zelda's third. Metroid got Frigate Orpheon because I felt Norfair would be too similar to another lava-based Metroid stage in SSB4, and too similar to Planet Zebes. This is why Pokemon didn't get any Pokemon Stadiums. Also, retro series got its second stage with Skyworld.

 

[Pieman0920]

Anyways, as far as I'm concerned, if there is only one for each series the past stage should be... (All Smashes included mind you)

Mario: Peach's Castle (From Melee I suppose, though I'd like the one from the original also. Delfin Plaza would be a good pick as well, as far as I'm concerned.)
Yoshi: Yoshi's Island (Melee's again, but maybe its because I like SMW so much...if not this one, then Yoshi's Island from the original Smash)
DK: 75m (I know, I know, you all probably hate this stage, but I think it should make a comeback. Most of the other DK stages are the same thing though, and I'd think whatever new DK stage shows up would probably borrow from them)
LoZ: Pirate Ship (This stage is just too nice...But pretty much every other Zelda stage is too. This is probably one of the hardest series to pick for in terms of this, since none of its stages dissapoint.)
Pokemon: Saffron City (There's no debating this as far as I'm concerned. Nothing can change my opinion. This stage needs to make a comeback in some way.)
Metroid: Brinstar Depths (I'm sure Metroid will get its lava level anywas..right? Second place for this series in my mind is tied between Norfair and Frigate Orpheon)
Kirby: Battleship Halberd (There's not that much compitition here...)
Star Fox: Sector Z (As long as its as big as it was in Melee, I'd gladly trade it over Lyatt Cruise....though don't get me wrong, that's a good stage too)
F-Zero: Big Blue (Awesome and unique. Just hope the trend of past stages getting smaller doesn't continue)
Earthbound: Fourside (Why was this one cut instead of Fourside? Was it because it was too close to New Pork City or something? Whatever the case, it should come back)
Ice Climbers: The Summit (Its just plain better than Melee's stage)
G&W: ??? (Either is good, as far as I'm concerned)
Others: Smashville, Castle Seige, and Pictochat (These all should make a return. Skyworld can be reworked as something new for Pit next time, and Hanenbow can burn in a fire)

EDIT: Regarding your picks Enzo, its pretty solid overall, though there are things I would have switched. For one, I'd put in Peach's Castle in the SSB part, and replace Rainbow Cruise with Kingdom 1 from Melee. Also I feel that Temple and Hyrule Castle are a bit redundant, so I'd take one out...probably Temple, and replace it with Great Bay. Also I don't get that Pokemon Stadium coment, since you have Pokefloats for Melee. Of course if you're under the assumption that SSB4 will have a new version of Pokemon Stadium, then that's fine.

 

[Fatmanonice]

The only character I heard Sakurai talk about was Ken Masters in reference to his "moveset doll" during his post-mortum or whatever it is called after Brawl was released. I doubt that means much in the end.

With Brawl, a majority of the new characters were either in the Melee poll and not added (Diddy Kong, Wario, Pit, Metaknight, King Dedede, Wolf, Pokemon Trainer, and Sonic) or were mentioned in interviews following Melee's release (Lucas and Snake). This gives strong evidence that Sakurai looked to the past for his roster choices since the roster was made in 2005 after E3 (except Sonic). The only characters who went against this were ROB (basically Sakurai's wild card), Ike (the latest Fire Emblem lord), Lucario (represented the soon to come 4th generation), Toon Link (basically Young Link), and Olimar (well, let's face it, the only major Miyamoto franchise that didn't have a rep *the others being Mario, DK, Zelda, Star Fox, and F-Zero* and the only successful console franchise Nintendo released in the Gamecube since Odama and Geist failed horrifically). With this being said, history will very likely repeat itself for SSB4 for the sake of efficiency.

@ add in:

Hmm... I usually don't think of the returning stages that much... Well, the Melee stages were pretty much decided because they either had unique qualities or they didn't get messed up due to the characters increasing in size once again. (I strongly believe this is why Peach's Castle and Fourside didn't return). Huh... Brawl has a lot of unique stages so it's hard to say so I'll just go off of my own bias for this one:

1. Delfino Plaza
2. Pirate Ship
3. Bridge of Eldin
4. Pokemon Stadium 2
5. Castle Siege


I don't know, those are the only stages I genuinely care about seeing again.

 

[ToiseOfChoice]

I really hate to drag the conversation away back towards stuff people probably don't wanna argue about anymore, but I can't help trying to pick apart a few things:

INTEREST > ORIGINALITY/UNIQUENESS >>> POPULARITY

It's actually this:

INTEREST

Sakurai doesn't care about originality/uniqueness at all. Wolf and Dr. Mario should've made that blatantly obvious. Rather, he cares about two things that are better described as restrictions:

- "Are they capable of fighting?"
- "Should they be fighting?"

You can turn anyone into a fighter, even if it means stretching the rules somewhat. The most unique fighters actually do plenty of rule-stretching regarding either Smash mechanics or their source material (ICs, Lucario, Olimar, PT). But Sakurai has a limit to what he'll accept. If a character is too reliant on a gimmick (Balloon Fighter, Mother Brain, Dr. Kawashima's Floating Andross-style Head), they don't make it.

Now the second part, we all know the answer to so I'll just post his quote:

All the WarioWare characters don't deserve to be playable. None of these WarioWare characters have star power like Wario's name does. I mean, really! The only reason why the first WarioWare game sold very well was because of Wario's name brand on top of excellent gameplay. If Wario wasn't used to market that game, it would probably be as successful as Rhythm Heaven - characters no one care about on top of excellent gameplay. People buy WarioWare games for the innovative gameplay, not for Mona, Ashley, and the others.

As much as I've disagreed with Pieman in the 5 seconds I've been on these boards (and as much as some of you loathe him), he got this in one shot:

And yes, no one buys a Wario game for Mona/Ashley/Whoever, but no one also buys a SF game for Falco, a Pokemon game for Jigglypuff, a DK game for K.Rool, and so on. At this point there are little to no characters who people simply buy the game for that are still left open to Nintendo, so I see little validity in that type of argument.

If this game was about "the only characters people buy Nintendo games for," we'd have the Smash 64 roster. No one cared about Sheik or Mr. Game & Watch before Melee, no one here knew who Pit or Ike were before Brawl. In fact, everytime I read something on the history of Fire Emblem, there's always a big paragraph about the Marth and Roy story (which, by the way, Roy is still easily the third most popular FE character). And really, the only newcomer who can sell games just by showing up is Little Mac (not counting 3rd-party, of course). How many of you would like it if the SSB4 Roster was just Brawl plus Mac and Mega Man?

I dont think any of the warioware chars will end up in ssb4. If any of them do it will be ashley mainly because this series is in dire need of more females. But even so there are LOTS of females who deserve it more
krystal
dixie
lynn
midna

This is a good example of how most people on these forums are completely unfamiliar with Wario. The guy says we need more females who are apparently in direct competition with each other and suggests Ashley primarily because she's female. Over Mona or Captain Syrup, no less. Which brings me to the next quote:

Okay seriously, why would anyone argue WarioWare's chances of getting a new character? It doesn't even have any!

Yeah, hyperbole and exclamation marks are cool and all, but everyone knows WarioWare is BUILT entirely on its cast and gameplay.

Look at that cast! I see ninjas, a robot, an alien, a witch, dog and cat mechanics, a crazy disco man, and what looks to be a little man with a jetpack and one of those visors used by Cyclops from X-Men. Even if I don't know what this game is about, I know something crazy is probably gonna happen.

Wario Land on the other hand only has one recurring character, the totally babelicious main villian Captain Syrup. The complete opposite to Wario in everything except greed and jerkitude, probably way smarter too:

But more importantly, why would anyone expect Wario to get a new character? For one thing, Sakurai never noticed Wario Land (or never cared for it). Almost non-existant in Brawl aside from a couple moves and his victory theme. I actually assume this is part of the reason he wasn't in Melee, but I haven't looked into it. I also sometimes get the feeling he's never heard of Captain Syrup.

Anyway, I do know that he likes WarioWare. The amount of content over Wario Land in Brawl makes that abundantly clear (and this video doesn't hurt either, his minigame is one of only two permanently downloadable games in D.I.Y.). He clearly put lots of effort into the WarioWare stage and gave Wario his more traditional plumber's duds. The other thing about WarioWare is that it's growing. It's very prolific. It sells well. It's popular. Of course I can't predict the future for either side of the Wario series, but if a series he likes is doing well, what's to stop him? Even if it doesn't do well, he'll still do whatever he wants. Just look at Star Fox (yes he loves Star Fox; even ignoring the characters, the hidden taunts in Corneria/Lylat Cruise shows that he's willing to go an extra mile for this series).

Now if he does feel like adding a WarioWare character (Mona), he may decide against it on the premise of "well, should she really be fighting?" In which case he'll probably do one of two things: use Captain Syrup and actually get some Wario Land content in the game to support her, or keep the focus on WarioWare and change nothing. I'd prefer Captain Syrup, but I expect Mona. But I believe either one of them is more likely than things staying the same for Wario.

 

[Arcadenik]

*eats Spyder Enzo*

I know there are few supporters for the Duck Hunt Dog. I remember when R.O.B. had a few supporters before he was confirmed to be in Brawl. Now, almost all Smash fans want R.O.B. in SSB4. If I told you I wanted R.O.B. in SSB3 (later, Brawl) over 6 years ago, you would have laughed at me and told me he cannot fight, he doesn't have many moves, he doesn't have many supporters, there are other better retro characters like Pit, Balloon Fighter, Mach Rider, etc. (usually a retro trophy from Melee), and so on.

 

[BKupa666]

And Kupa, I don't think chemistry is that much of a concern for those who make the games, since when they finally added in K.Rool, they had him side with the Kongs.

I'm not gonna start a debate about something this insignificant, but while K.Rool was added onto DK's team with all the other DK characters, he still has bad chemistry with all the Kongs; he's only there for fan service. Dixie, on the other hand, was added earlier to give DK and Diddy a friendly helping hand.

 

[UberMario]

What series do you guys think should be represented ONLY by music?

My guesses are:
-Mario Party
-Crusin' (Nintendo Exclusive, helped manufacture some of the arcade units)
-Tetris Attack
-Big Brain Academy
- 1943 (Made by Capcom, the owners of MegaMan)
- Pokemon Mystery Dungeon
- Harvest Moon

 

[Pieman0920]

Harvest Moon isn't Nitendo if I recall. And I don't think that even if MM was in, that they would include music from other Capcom games.

But, Tetris Attack (aka Panel De Pon) music is a must. Why we only had one track in Brawl I will never know. Even if PdP doesn't even get a stage, the music should get in. (Maybe on a Yoshi level just as a nod to TA.)

EDIT: Actually, that comment about MM made me wonder something. While I don't think Capcom would include music from other series, like say SF, would they include music from other MM series, like say X or BN, even if the Mega is in fact his classic self?

 

[BKupa666]

Brawl had two Tetris songs:

Tetris: Type A

and

Tetris: Type B

Still, there should be more. I think Yoshi had a cut Tetris track, if I'm not mistaken.

 

[Arcadenik]

The creator of Tetris doesn't own the rights to songs that Nintendo created for the NES/GB version of Tetris. The creator just owns the rights to the Tetris name and the gameplay. Same with Dr. Wright. The creator of SimCity doesn't own the rights to the character Dr. Wright because Nintendo created Dr. Wright as the mascot of the SNES SimCity. The creator just owns the rights to the SimCity name and the gameplay. Big difference there.

 

[Spydr Enzo]

Toise, you misunderstood my post. That's okay, I should have edited it, I saw it coming... Anyway, I didn't mean WarioWare doesn't have any characters, I only ment to say it doesn't have any chances (okay, it has a .0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001 chance). And also, I did mention that interest is Sakurai's main focus and the main factor for deciding characters (after the universal factor of if they are important to their series or not). But if the character can bring something new to the game, such as a new play-style or just on under-used one, they might appeal a bit more to Sakurai. After that if the character is popular, they become another likely candidate.

And Arcadenik, R.O.B. may have been a wild card character, but honestly, he looks like a character that could actually fit in a smash game. The duck hunt dog is just ridiculous...

 

[Arcadenik]

Spyder Enzo, seriously, you would never say R.O.B. looks like he fits right in Smash if he wasn't playable in Brawl at all. You say he fits right in Smash now because you have already seen how he works as a fighter in Brawl.

 

[n88]

Spyder Enzo, seriously, you would never say R.O.B. looks like he fits right in Smash if he wasn't playable in Brawl at all. You say he fits right in Smash now because you have already seen how he works as a fighter in Brawl.

You know Spydr Enzo so well that you know what he would say or not say?

Did you bring up the Duck Hunt Dog again?

I don't believe Sakurai has shown any interest in him, he doesn't have much moveset potential, he's not important, and he's not very popular. The only way he would get in is as a WTF, and I think that even Mach Rider has him beat there.

 

[Spydr Enzo]

Spyder Enzo, seriously, you would never say R.O.B. looks like he fits right in Smash if he wasn't playable in Brawl at all. You say he fits right in Smash now because you have already seen how he works as a fighter in Brawl.

Okay, but seriously Arcadenik, the Duck hunt dog?

*sigh* some of the people here are hopeless...

 

[Clownbot]

I'm not trying to sound too trollish here, but I'm rather surprised, Arcadenik, that you outright deny Ridley's chances, and... you push for the DH Dog?

 

[Spydr Enzo]

I'm not trying to sound too trollish here, but I'm rather surprised, Arcadenik, that you outright deny Ridley's chances, and... you push for the DH Dog?

EXACTLY!

RIDLEY
-signs of interest
-great moveset potential
-Immense popularity
-great chances

DUCK HUNT DOG
-no signs of interest
-no moveset potential
-no popularity (except Arcadenik apparently)
-no chances

I've said before that I'm 99.9999999999999999999999% positive a character won't make an appearance, but the Duck Hunt Dog is just plain ridiculous. I'm 100% positive he won't get in.

 

[sundayseclipse]

FACEPALM-Enzo, dont be so bias. unless you can predict the future of nintindo for the next 4-9 years shut up. i can handle ppl who predict what char are gona be in, but ppl who predict char that wont, gawd thats annoying.
every character has a chance, some less then others.

unless you saw r.ob G&W or snake coming then i might accept your ideas. but if you didnt it proves how smash is very unpredictable

tho i respect some of your reasons, but we dont have all the intrivals for the eqation

 

[n88]

FACEPALM-Enzo, dont be so bias. unless you can predict the future of nintindo for the next 4-9 years shut up. i can handle ppl who predict what char are gona be in, but ppl who predict char that wont, gawd thats annoying.
every character has a chance, some less then others.

unless you saw r.ob G&W or snake coming then i might accept your ideas. but if you didnt it proves how smash is very unpredictable

Predicting what characters will be in is the same as predicting what characters will get in, just as predicting when the Sun will rise gives you all the times it won't. Spydr Enzo isn't the biased one here, Arcadenik is. And at any rate, the Duck Hunt Dog is a retro character whose only comeback would be through the Virtual Console.

 

[Fatmanonice]

I really hate to drag the conversation away back towards stuff people probably don't wanna argue about anymore, but I can't help trying to pick apart a few things:



It's actually this:

INTEREST

POINT ONE: Sakurai doesn't care about originality/uniqueness at all. Wolf and Dr. Mario should've made that blatantly obvious. Rather, he cares about two things that are better described as restrictions:

- "Are they capable of fighting?"
- "Should they be fighting?"

POINT TWO:You can turn anyone into a fighter, even if it means stretching the rules somewhat. The most unique fighters actually do plenty of rule-stretching regarding either Smash mechanics or their source material (ICs, Lucario, Olimar, PT). But Sakurai has a limit to what he'll accept. If a character is too reliant on a gimmick (Balloon Fighter, Mother Brain, Dr. Kawashima's Floating Andross-style Head), they don't make it.

Now the second part, we all know the answer to so I'll just post his quote:




POINT THREE: Funny thing is, if you keep reading the article, he mentions the popularity bit:



Not that this is anything conclusive, but it does give you a general idea as to his intentions (the last sentence is kinda funny since a lot of series barely had any trophies, but that was probably because he was behind schedule with Brawl).


POINT FOUR: If this game was about "the only characters people buy Nintendo games for," we'd have the Smash 64 roster. No one cared about Sheik or Mr. Game & Watch before Melee, no one here knew who Pit or Ike were before Brawl. In fact, everytime I read something on the history of Fire Emblem, there's always a big paragraph about the Marth and Roy story (which, by the way, Roy is still easily the third most popular FE character). And really, the only newcomer who can sell games just by showing up is Little Mac (not counting 3rd-party, of course). How many of you would like it if the SSB4 Roster was just Brawl plus Mac and Mega Man?

Point one response: He said he wants all the Smash characters to bring something new to the table even if it's just their personality and that players would genuinely want to play with them if they saw them in action. With that being said, Dr. Mario is the only anti-thesis to this (regarding the personality bit) and he's no longer in Smash anyways.

Point two response: This is very true but most of the people you mentioned did have stuff to work with. All the "rule breaking" characters still stayed true to their character and weren't stretched past their own basic traits. For example, the Ice Climber still use team work, ice, and their hammers to get by despite playing much different than the original Ice Climber game.

Point three response: As said in the past, that's why so many characters became trophies/stickers/ATs and pretty much what the poll was about since the roster was already decided. As it says right there, Sakurai believes that players are happy if their favorite characters appear, even if it's little more than a minor cameo.

Point four response: Not to be whiny but I hate it when people say "no body knew them." A decent number of people were clamoring for Pit after Brawl was pseudo announced at E3 05 and Fire Emblem has been decently popular since it was released in all four major regions. I prefer to say that they weren't known by the general populace because, given the majority of people who play Nintendo games, Mario, Pokemon, Kirby, and Zelda are the only franchises that most people are familar with. Again, with this in mind, this is probably why a character's popularity is lower on Sakurai's list of importance when it comes to letting them into Smash. If it were merely the opinion of the general populace, characters like Waluigi and Daisy would no doubt already be playable.

 

[Pieman0920]

Yeah, even I don't think that the Duck Hunt dog has any sort of chance. There are other retro characters that can still be used, and quite frankly, the only think that the Duck Hunt dog is known for is laughing at you. That is by no means a reason to get in.

 

[Fatmanonice]

I don't really support the Duck Hunt Dog either but I've known Arcadenik since 2005 (when we were both on Nsider) and I definately give him props for supporting the character for so long. I do believe that Duck Hunt NEEDS to be represented in a bigger way; an assist trophy, a stage, an item, SOMETHING besides a trophy or a few crappy stickers. There's no denying that Duck Hunt was a pretty big game in Nintendo's history and, if you ask me, it's been horrifically overlooked.

 

[sundayseclipse]

hmmmm or replace sandbag with duckhunt dog =D its the perfect idea

 

[n88]

I don't really support the Duck Hunt Dog either but I've known Arcadenik since 2005 (when we were both on Nsider) and I definately give him props for supporting the character for so long. I do believe that Duck Hunt NEEDS to be represented in a bigger way; an assist trophy, a stage, an item, SOMETHING besides a trophy or a few crappy stickers. There's no denying that Duck Hunt was a pretty big game in Nintendo's history and, if you ask me, it's been horrifically overlooked.

That, I agree with, but a character? Ugh.

 

[SoupaSonic]

You know, for some strange reason... I want Ryu to be in it... I know it won't happen but I think it'd be great! His specials are easily picked (neutral-hadouken, side-hurricane kick, up-shoryuken, down-red hadouken) and his regular moves can just be picked from street fighter.

 

[Wizzerd]

FACEPALM-Enzo, dont be so bias. unless you can predict the future of nintindo for the next 4-9 years shut up. i can handle ppl who predict what char are gona be in, but ppl who predict char that wont, gawd thats annoying.
every character has a chance, some less then others.

unless you saw r.ob G&W or snake coming then i might accept your ideas. but if you didnt it proves how smash is very unpredictable

tho i respect some of your reasons, but we dont have all the intrivals for the eqation

First, lrn2grammar. Second, saying that a character is unlikely is just as reasonable as saying that they are likely. Third, whether a character is likely or not is the entire basis of this thread, so don't imply that it's negative. Fourth:

EDIT:

You know, for some strange reason... I want Ryu to be in it... I know it won't happen but I think it'd be great! His specials are easily picked (neutral-hadouken, side-hurricane kick, up-shoryuken, down-red hadouken) and his regular moves can just be picked from street fighter.

The only third party newcomers with a chance for SSB4 are Megaman and Simon Belmont, but Ryu is reasonable for SSB5 or 6. It would be pretty interesting to see how a character from a traditional fighting game would be translated into Smash.

 

[SoupaSonic]

Yeah, for some reason I thought he'd have a small chance for SSB4 because there's a new game exclusive to the wii that has him in it. It's Capcom vs Tasunako or something. But just wondering, do you think Sonic and Snake will still be in it? Or will they be completely replaced Megaman and Simon Belmont? and who is Simon Belmont?

 

[sundayseclipse]

=D **** you too wizzerd(jk)

^^^^^ i think sonic and snake well stay.
simon is the first hero in the castlevania sereis since the nes days. i agree with wizz on ryu not being in the next smash.

you want ryu... and i want dig dug in smash =(

 

[Wizzerd]

I think it's likely that the existing third parties will remain, both being very popular. It's almost certain that we will get Megaman, but Simon Belmont (the most famous of the Belmont clan, who fights Dracula in the Castlevania series) is iffier, though he's the next most likely after Megaman. Ryu definitely has a small chance though.

 

[SoupaSonic]

Yeah... I have another idea though. Some guy on the first page put up the idea of adding Blooper, the moveset seems really solid... I don't think that he would make it as a playable character, maybe an assist trophy if they keep them.

 

[Big-Cat]

The only third party newcomers with a chance for SSB4 are Megaman and Simon Belmont, but Ryu is reasonable for SSB5 or 6. It would be pretty interesting to see how a character from a traditional fighting game would be translated into Smash.

I think Ryu would fit in just fine. After all, his specials were the base for Mario's specials:

Mario's B: Hadouken
Mario's Up B: SURE YOU CAN!
Mario's Down B: Tatsumaki Senpukyaku

In fact, you could parallel Smash's original roster with SF2's original roster:

Ryu: Mario
Ken: Luigi
Chun-Li: Samus
Guile: Fox
E. Honda: Link
Dhalsim: Ness
Zangief: Yoshi (stretching it here)
Blanka: Pikachu (Blankachu!)
Balrog: Donkey Kong
Vega: Jigglypuff (stretching it here)
Sagat: Captain Falcon
M. Bison: Kirby (stretching it here)

Of course, he's a Capcom character like Megaman so who knows how it'll work, and the same goes for Belmont.

 

[Arcadenik]

I don't really support Ridley because he's too big to be reasonably resized down to Samus's size. Look, Ridley may have been a clean slate back in 2001, at the time Metroid only had three games, when Ridley was small in the first game and too big in the third game. It would explain why he seemed to be around Samus's size in the Melee intro. But ever since the Metroid franchise was revived in 2002 after the last game in 1994, Ridley has been consistently depicted as a very large space dragon in all the Metroid games he appeared in. It has been firmly established that he is much larger than Samus. To see him radically shrinked down to slightly bigger than Samus in Smash is too extreme even for Smash's "its not canon" idea. I don't see how Ridley could possibly be Samus's size in SSB4 when he's once again too big to the point his hands wrap all around Samus's whole body in Metroid: Other M. At least Sakurai acknowledged Ridley's fanbase and added him as a large boss (just like in the Metroid games) and even went the extra mile and made him into two different bosses in the Adventure Mode.

Before anyone brings up Bowser's size in Super Mario 64/Sunshine/Galaxy, I want to say that while he's much bigger than Mario in those games, he has been consistently depicted as just about two times bigger than Mario in many other games in the Paper Mario series, the Mario & Luigi series, and the Super Mario Bros. series in addition to many spin-off games. That's why the idea of resizing Bowser down to Mario's size in Smash is not as extreme like Ridley's case would be.

Also, just because a character has signs of interest, moveset potential, immense popularity, and great chances does not always guarantee that said character will be playable. Many, if not most, of the most-wanted characters for Brawl ended up as Assist Trophies, bosses, regular trophies, and/or stickers in Brawl.

We also don't know if Sakurai is interested in the Duck Hunt Dog or not. All I know so far is that he doesn't think Balloon Fighter, Urban Champion, Bubbles, Excitebike, Sukapon, Nintendogs, and all Animal Crossing characters would work very well in Smash. About moveset potential, well, R.O.B. didn't have any and look how he is in Brawl. The Duck Hunt Dog has not been around for a long time so he's pretty much a clean slate now just like Ice Climbers, Pit, R.O.B., and Mr. Game & Watch were before they showed up in Smash games. He could very well get a made-up moveset based on Duck Hunt's gameplay and his role as a hunting dog.

As far as popularity is concerned, people must still care about the dog after over 20 years if they are hacking the NES game to let you shoot the dog. Nintendo seems to still care about Duck Hunt if its suing other phone companies for making a profit off the game.

Also, I feel that adding Duck Hunt Dog would really complete the Famicom group with Ice Climbers and R.O.B. See, Sakurai himself said he added Ice Climbers to represent the Famicom games. He could have stopped there but he added another Famicom-era character, R.O.B., in Brawl. So, if Duck Hunt Dog was added as the new Famicom-era character, we would have all three NES bundles (besides Super Mario Bros.) in SSB4.

- Ice Climber was bundled with the NES in Europe.
- R.O.B. (with Gyromite) was bundled with the NES in North America.
- Duck Hunt (with Zapper Light Gun) was bundled with the NES in North America.

So, the Ice Climbers are probably iconic retro Nintendo characters over in Europe just like how R.O.B. and the Duck Hunt Dog are in North America. Also, Nintendo chose Duck Hunt to represent the Zapper Light Gun when marketing the NES in North America with R.O.B. and Super Mario Bros. So, to reflect that in SSB4, the Duck Hunt Dog could represent Duck Hunt, and by association, the Zapper Light Gun and other Zapper games on the Famicom.

One more thing, saying the Duck Hunt Dog doesn't fit in Smash is pretty oxymoronic. Smash will always have diverse rosters full of wacky, serious, and bizarre characters so I am sure a duck-hunting dog would fit in with them just fine.

 

[Wizzerd]

Arcadenik, read the second essay right now.

 

[Clownbot]

Snakey is ChronoBound, correct? Are those excerpts from his SSB4 Project?

EDIT: Nevermind, I read the OP of the thread.

 

[LuVr]

k rool for smash bros 4