[Official SSB4 Discussion] --- Nintendo announces 2 new Smash games!

[Clownbot]

1)Stickers should stay, there should be a stickers option in Special Brawl, so you can actually use them for something besides SSE

2)Brawl's music is amazing, and shouuld stay.

I posted this a while ago, but it was drowned out very quickly, so I thought it was worth another mention. What do people think about Momohime, the hero of Muramasa, making it into Smash, as she looks like an interesting character (Captain Tights + Marth?) and potentially a great game?

I reall haven't heard about the game until you just now mentioned it. Based on what I read in the Wikipedia article, it seems that Kisuke has chances as well, being the other main character.

Even then, I'm not quite sure either have prominence over some other 3rd party characters.

EDIT: Also, on the mention of 3rd parties, I just wanted to say...

Snake should get the axe.

 

[n88]

I was under the impression that Muramasa was 2nd, not 3rd Party? I know some people want someone from Advance Wars to take Snake's spot, but Snake should stay. He doesn't fit particularly well (not at all), but he really helped sell Brawl, and the more successful Smash is, the more Smash games will be made. Snake stays.

 

[Wizzerd]

I posted this a while ago, but it was drowned out very quickly, so I thought it was worth another mention. What do people think about Momohime, the hero of Muramasa, making it into Smash, as she looks like an interesting character (Captain Tights + Marth?) and potentially a great game?

Sounds like an ideal choice for an AT, but one game isn't quite enough to get a role (Ice Climbers are an exception and they shouldn't be used in SSB4 arguments anyways because they break every rule in the book). Perhaps the series will expand, however, and maybe Momohime could be viable.

Also, on the mention of 3rd parties, I just wanted to say...

Snake should get the axe.

YES!

Snake should get the boot/axe/benign article used as a weapon. His significance to Nintendo pales before characters like Megaman and Simon Belmont. However, should does not equal will, and he's so popular that he probably will stay, even if he doesn't deserve to.

 

[n88]

I guess she would work better as an AT, but watching that demo really makes me want to kill Pit with flying sword attacks. On 3rd parties-

Sonic - For some reason, very popular. Stays.
Snake - Creator BFFs w/Sakurai. Makes uneducated people want to buy Smash. Stays.
Megaman - Very requested. Gets in.
Geno - Does not.

 

[Clownbot]

Another thing about 3rd parties...

I posted this idea earlier, but it was ignored. How would anyone feel about Ryu Hayabusa from Ninja Gaiden as a playable character?

Also, I really appreciated your reason for Snake staying in Smash, n88, but I could still imagine him leaving for SSB4

 

[n88]

Team Ninja is workin with Nintendo on Other M right now, so I guess it's possible.

 

[Clownbot]

Cool.

I mean, if you ask me, he fits all the qualifications for an awesome Smasher; he has experience with fighting, yet he would be an unexpected character, but people would probably enjoy his inclusion. He has a ****load of moveset potential, his first console game was for the NES so he has a past with Nintendo, and with Metroid: Other M, his company's collaborated with Nintendo./epic fanboyism

 

[lordvaati]

and one of his most recent games was on the DS, too.

 

[Clownbot]

and one of his most recent games was on the DS, too.

Now that's what I'm sayin', man, that's what I'm sayin'! All the more reason to include him!/even MORE epic fanboyism

 

[Pieman0920]

Doesn't seem like the type if you ask me. And there are others that should get in before. That being said, unless they really do drop Konami and Sega, I don't think we're going to have many other, if any other companies joining in due to fees and what not. That being said, I think other companies like Capcom, SE, Namco, and others are better choices to go to before Tecmo.

 

[Clownbot]

Doesn't seem like the type if you ask me. And there are others that should get in before. That being said, unless they really do drop Konami and Sega, I don't think we're going to have many other, if any other companies joining in due to fees and what not. That being said, I think other companies like Capcom, SE, Namco, and others are better choices to go to before Tecmo.

Yeah, I have to agree. I mean, I still think he'd be kicka**, but it could be my fanboyism getting to me.

Although, SQUARE AND NAMCO? I guess SE has a FEW reps they could use, but Namco? I REALLY hope you wouldn't prefer Pac-Man over Ryu.

EDIT: Also, does Starfy have a better chance of being playable because his new game's been released in America?

 

[Phendrona]

So I've been thinking:

You know in those event matches where it's you versus a bunch of characters one by one?

For example:
The event match would be, lets say, Ganondorf, Falco, Ness, Lucario and Pikachu Vs You.
The characters appear one by one. So if you killed Ganon, then Falco would appear, once you kill Falco, then you would have to kill Ness, and so on and so forth.

Now what I'm proposing is:

What if there was a mode in SSB4 where you can set one of these matches up, but not as an event match.

It would be like a VS match! At the beginning of the match, you would choose however many characters you want. So lets say you chose 5 characters for you to beat, then it would just be like the event match, you would have to beat all the characters one by one.

Now what if the mode went even deeper:

You can choose, X amount of characters for you to use, and X amount of characters for your opponent to use, and every life lost you would switch to your next character. Almost like In Story mode
This will allow you to use more then one character per match.

With this mode you can also make challenges like you being one character against every other character in the game.

So what do you think of this idea? Would you use it/like it?

(I tried making my post as understandable as possible. I hope it was easy to understand and not just a bunch of confusing nonsense :/ )

 

[lordvaati]

So I've been thinking:

You know in those event matches where it's you versus a bunch of characters one by one?

For example:
The event match would be, lets say, Ganondorf, Falco, Ness, Lucario and Pikachu Vs You.
The characters appear one by one. So if you killed Ganon, then Falco would appear, once you kill Falco, then you would have to kill Ness, and so on and so forth.

Now what I'm proposing is:

What if there was a mode in SSB4 where you can set one of these matches up, but not as an event match.

It would be like a VS match! At the beginning of the match, you would choose however many characters you want. So lets say you chose 5 characters for you to beat, then it would just be like the event match, you would have to beat all the characters one by one.

Now what if the mode went even deeper:

You can choose, X amount of characters for you to use, and X amount of characters for your opponent to use, and every life lost you would switch to your next character. Almost like In Story mode
This will allow you to use more then one character per match.

With this mode you can also make challenges like you being one character against every other character in the game.

So what do you think of this idea? Would you use it/like it?

(I tried making my post as understandable as possible. I hope it was easy to understand and not just a bunch of confusing nonsense :/ )

so it's a custom All-Star mode in Vs. I like.

 

[Big-Cat]

Doesn't seem like the type if you ask me. And there are others that should get in before. That being said, unless they really do drop Konami and Sega, I don't think we're going to have many other, if any other companies joining in due to fees and what not. That being said, I think other companies like Capcom, SE, Namco, and others are better choices to go to before Tecmo.

You're right that those three should get a character before Tecmo. However, there's one question that has remained unanswered in this thread: Who would be the SE character? Obviously, it would be someone from the Final Fantasy series, but the most popular ones are from the Playstation 1 and 2 eras.

Should Nintendo make an exception and allow one of those characters in? In that case, the most likely characters would be Cloud and Lightning, assuming FFXV doesn't come out by the time SSB4 comes out.

As for Namco, I think the most likely choices are Pac-Man, KOS-MOS (if Nintendo doesn't own her), Nightmare, and Lloyd or Cless.

Capcom's most likely is Megaman with Ryu for a close second, but he has better chances appearing in a Nintendo vs. Capcom game.

I think we can start hoping for Ryu Hayabusa if Team Ninja and Nintendo develop a bigger relationship.

 

[Pieman0920]

Obviously FF? What happened to DQ? Last time I checked, that was even more popular than FF in Japan. Plus, its not like Snake got mega popular when he was with Nintendo. (Also, it could always be a Black Mage or something)

Also, shouldn't Nintendo be trying to develop a better relationship with Tecmo, instead of Team Ninja, if they want to get Ryu Hayabusa?

 

[Clownbot]

FF? DQ? Whatever happened to CHRONO TRIGGER? Besides, if an FF character got in, it should be from the classic Nintendo console games, regardless of whether Nintendo's willing to break their own rules.

Also, Pieman, Tecmo made the original NG games, but more recent games in the series have been developed by Team Ninja, a subsidiary of Tecmo.

 

[Mario the Jumpman]

The only Square Enix character I want in SSB4 is Geno. He has a pretty large fanbase, and I'm not realy fond of FF or DQ.

As for Ryu Hayabusa, I don't think I would want him in. Think about this for a bit: he's also from the Dead or Alive series (which is sexist, by the way).

 

[Wizzerd]

Geno is an obscure character from one game who isn't the main character and needs third party permission to get in. It's ridiculous that he gets support.

Spoiler

I always thought that Mallow was a more interesting character...

 

[Mario the Jumpman]

Geno is an obscure character from one game who isn't the main character and needs third party permission to get in. It's ridiculous that he gets support.

Spoiler

I always thought that Mallow was a more interesting character...

Mario the Jumpman:

I suppose you're right, but I thought he was very important to that game.

 

[Underload]

Geno was a bigger part of the story than Mallow.

Geno has a larger fanbase than Mallow.

Geno was stronger than Mallow in SMRPG.

 

[Clownbot]

Yeah, Geno shouldn't, and probably won't, be playable in SSB4. Not only are there better Square reps than him, but the Mario series deserves more than a one-shot character from a SNES RPG.

Mario the Jumpman, I doubt Ryu would bring any sexism into the Smash universe.

 

[Big-Cat]

Obviously FF? What happened to DQ? Last time I checked, that was even more popular than FF in Japan. Plus, its not like Snake got mega popular when he was with Nintendo. (Also, it could always be a Black Mage or something)

Also, shouldn't Nintendo be trying to develop a better relationship with Tecmo, instead of Team Ninja, if they want to get Ryu Hayabusa?

I don't know if Dragon Quest is more popular in Japan, but Final Fantasy definitely has the bigger international fanbase. So, I think Final Fantasy has the better chance of having a character in. As for Chrono Trigger, I don't see how people think Chrono will get in over other SE characters aside from the whole "Who do you pick?" question.

I suppose you're right regarding Tecmo, but Team Ninja could act as the middle man between Nintendo and Tecmo.

 

[Wizzerd]

Mario the Jumpman:

I suppose you're right, but I thought he was very important to that game.

He wasn't the main character. It's really ridiculous to say that Geno has any more chance then a snowball in hell. He was in an obscure game not as the main character which a third party company has the rights to. None of these things can disqualify a character on their own, but three at once and we have a problem.

Also, the game is Chrono Trigger, but the main character is Crono.

 

[ShinoandtheBallonFighter]

@Mario the Jumpman: You never clearly stated why you think Micaiha(sp) is the prefered magic rep for FE, and i am curious as to your reasoning...

 

[Clownbot]

Sorry to intervene, but...

Micaiah? Unless she reappears in another Fire Emblem game, I can't see her making it into Smash. Besides, the new position for an FE rep will probably go to the lord of the latest FE game.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[ShinoandtheBallonFighter]

Understandably, but IMO the Magical side of FE needs to be explored as magic has been an equal part of FE since it's start. In the event of a new FE not including a unique, signifigant magic user, then I feel Nergal would be a natrual fit for a Magic user.

 

[Starphoenix]

I don't know if Dragon Quest is more popular in Japan, but Final Fantasy definitely has the bigger international fanbase. So, I think Final Fantasy has the better chance of having a character in. As for Chrono Trigger, I don't see how people think Chrono will get in over other SE characters aside from the whole "Who do you pick?" question.

Slime for SSB4!

DQ>>>>FF

In all seriousness, FF would have the same problem as DQ. Who would be the representing character? I still say the most likely option is Chocobo, more or less the one from Chocobo Dungeon. Just like Slime could be similar to the Slime from Rocket Slime. [Redundant much? lol]

Their movesets could all draw from their respective main canon games, their spin off sequels, and Smash-exclusive creations. Music could span from the large history of both games and even throw in a couple of other famous Square tracks from Chrono Trigger, Kingdom Hearts, and Secret of Mana.


Here is how I would do it:

For Chocobo; have 9 tracks from Final Fantasy, with one song from Kingdom Hearts, Chrono Trigger, Secret of Mana, and Dragon Quest.

For Slime; have 9 tracks from Dragon Quest, with one song from Kingdom Hearts, Chrono Trigger, Secret of Mana, and Final Fantasy.

 

[Mario the Jumpman]

Understandably, but IMO the Magical side of FE needs to be explored as magic has been an equal part of FE since it's start. In the event of a new FE not including a unique, signifigant magic user, then I feel Nergal would be a natrual fit for a Magic user.

Mario the Jumpman:

I preferred Micaiah because she's female AND fully-clothed.

 

[Clownbot]

Mario the Jumpman:

I preferred Micaiah because she's female AND fully-clothed.

No characters getting in for the sole reason that they're female, please.

 

[ShinoandtheBallonFighter]

Nergal is a much better rep than Micaiah because, people do not hate him.

 

[Wizzerd]

Read this before supporting characters for being female. Also, I'd like to point out that Sakurai has actually been overly eager to bring females into Smash when you think about it. Samus is a no-brainer, but Peach didn't deserve it over Wario in Melee and Ganondorf probably shouldn't have gotten in over Zelda in the beginning of Melee instead of being a last-minute clone. We all know that ZSS of course should have never gotten in over Ridley in Brawl. She has an important role in one game (just like Geno!).

 

[Mario the Jumpman]

To Wizzerd: If that's the case, then would Krystal deserve to get in instead of Falco/Wolf (and need I remind you that the blue fox lady has a really large fanbase)?

Edit: I did not know Wizzerd had a link to his last reply before making this post. Sorry for the... umm... neglegence of the link.

 

[Clownbot]

Read this before supporting characters for being female. Also, I'd like to point out that Sakurai has actually been overly eager to bring females into Smash when you think about it. Samus is a no-brainer, but Peach didn't deserve it over Wario in Melee and Ganondorf probably shouldn't have gotten in over Zelda in the beginning of Melee instead of being a last-minute clone. We all know that ZSS of course should have never gotten in over Ridley in Brawl. She has an important role in one game (just like Geno!).

First of all, that was the BEST ESSAY EVAR.
I agree with you on just about everything you said in your post, except the last two sentences. ZSS IS Samus, so she technically has a role in more than one game.

Still, Ridley probably deserved to be playable before her.

To Wizzerd: If that's the case, then would Krystal deserve to get in instead of Falco/Wolf (and need I remind you that the blue fox lady has a really large fanbase)?

Half of Krystal's fanbase is probably composed of people who are in it for the looks.
Once again, I don't have a bad opinion about Krystal, but you can't deny that.

 

[Wizzerd]

To Wizzerd: If that's the case, then would Krystal deserve to get in instead of Falco/Wolf (and need I remind you that the blue fox lady has a really large fanbase)?

Eggman: NO!
Krystal's fanbase, as said by Clownbot, consists of people in it for the looks. She also has an amount of haters to match every lover. She is utterly insignificant, especially in comparison to the existing space animals.

Also, that essay was not written by me. It was written by Chronobound, on his GameFAQs account Snakey. I agree with him very much though.

 

[Mario the Jumpman]

Picture this: Dead or Alive fanboys wearing pajamas with feet!

 

[SmashChu]

A few comments

People seem to always neglect Geno's fanbase. While he is a one hit wonder (not a fault of his own character) he has a very loyal fanbase. There was a flash movie that said it well: it's been over 10 years and people still adore me (Geno saying it of course). I have reason to believe that Geno was considered for Brawl, but Square would not allow it 9from the seize and desist letter for the Chrono fangame, it wouldn't surprise me).

Also, I don't see Micaiah making it as she wasn't very loved. There are more liked FE lords. Lyn has (or had) the best chance for a female FE character, but her fanbase is gone.....

Eggman: NO!
Krystal's fanbase, as said by Clownbot, consists of people in it for the looks. She also has an amount of haters to match every lover. She is utterly insignificant, especially in comparison to the existing space animals.

Making sweeping generalizations and value judgements is not an educated answer. The truth is, people love her. Why shouldn't be a reason.

 

[ShinoandtheBallonFighter]

I think Lyn still has a considerable fanbase, moreso than Micaiah

 

[Pieman0920]

Basing it off fanart, Micaiah seems to have a fairly large fanbase in Japan. With her being a mage, that would also help. Of course as her time has passed so to say, her only real chance is if there is no new FE game before the next Smash.

As for Geno, his fanbase can't carry him. Look back at the somewhat recent SE-Nintendo team ups, and notice that Geno, despite all his alleged popularity, is missing. In one of these team up games, they even had SMRPG music, but no Geno. The fact is, even if he was somehow Nintendo's all the sudden, he'd still be in back of several other Mario characters, who are all trying to get one or two new character slots that may or may not show up due to the fact that the Mario series has enough representation as it is.

 

[flyinfilipino]

Eggman: NO!
Krystal's fanbase, as said by Clownbot, consists of people in it for the looks. She also has an amount of haters to match every lover. She is utterly insignificant, especially in comparison to the existing space animals.

Also, that essay was not written by me. It was written by Chronobound, on his GameFAQs account Snakey. I agree with him very much though.

As a Krystal fan, I'd just like to be able to speak for myself and say that I like Krystal because she's a rather unique member of the Star Fox team. Yeah, it's partly because she's female, but it's not about the looks for me. Sweeping generalizations ftl.

Additionally, if fanbase popularity is supposed to be the biggest factor in including characters, why pay attention to the haters? How does the inclusion of one character that they don't like ruin the entire game? Some people dislike Pokemon, Zelda, Sonic, etc.; but those franchises continue to get more representation in Smash, regardless of however many haters there are. It's not really about them. It's kinda the same situation as Tingle. The fact that the haters are really vocal doesn't really equate to there being as many as the fans, or that the given character doesn't deserve it.

Lastly, I don't believe Krystal is utterly insignificant compared to the existing space animals. She just...isn't. She takes part in just as many battles as the rest of them (mostly because they're on the same team), and it's not like she gets a lack of screentime. Heck, you see her more than Wolf in most Star Fox games. She might not be any more important, but she certainly isn't "utterly insignificant."

I'm just defending Krystal here; arguing for her inclusion in Smash Bros. is a different story.

 

[Mario the Jumpman]

flyinfilipino has got a point. Krystal may get into Smash 4 even if it means cutting Wolf or Falco. She would be different from Fox.

There are characters from a series I do not want to see in SSB4: and that is Dead or Alive (act mature, people!).