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[Official SSB4 Discussion] --- Nintendo announces 2 new Smash games!

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Clownbot

Smash Lord
Joined
Jun 9, 2009
Messages
1,851
flyinfilipino has got a point. Krystal may get into Smash 4 even if it means cutting Wolf or Falco. She would be different from Fox.

There are characters from a series I do not want to see in SSB4: and that is Dead or Alive (act mature, people!).
Look at the very last sentence in flyinfilipino's post. Also, PLEASE stop talking about Dead or Alive. Funnily enough, you of all people in the thread seem to be showing the most interest in it. I hope I'm speaking for others when I say, we get it. Sexism is wrong.

Moving on...

Retro character idea: Bubbles from Clu Clu Land.
 

Wizzerd

Smash Ace
Joined
Feb 24, 2009
Messages
929
You're right, Krystal isn't utterly insignificant (although she isn't quite as significant as the existing characters). I got carried away with my dislike for her in that post. As much as I hate to admit it, Krystal is the fourth best option for a Star Fox rep. However, Star Fox is quite overrepped as it is and it isn't all that significant in comparison to bigger series like Donkey Kong and Fire Emblem in need of more representation. Sorry about that. :ohwell:
 

SmashChu

Banned via Warnings
Joined
Jul 14, 2003
Messages
5,924
Location
Tampa FL
You're right, Krystal isn't utterly insignificant (although she isn't quite as significant as the existing characters). I got carried away with my dislike for her in that post. As much as I hate to admit it, Krystal is the fourth best option for a Star Fox rep. However, Star Fox is quite overrepped as it is and it isn't all that significant in comparison to bigger series like Donkey Kong and Fire Emblem in need of more representation. Sorry about that. :ohwell:
I respect that fact that you admitted your fault. That something very few people will do (even myslef).

Remember that representation is not relevent to how well the franchise has done. Mother has two characters where it hardly needs one. Fire Emblem would have had three where two is plenty. Donkey Kong is still short. And Metroid still lacks a new character despite it's growing popularity. As long as Mario, Zelda and Pokemon remain on top, the balance is secure.
 

lordvaati

Smash Master
Joined
Jul 7, 2006
Messages
3,148
Location
Seattle, WA
Switch FC
SW-4918-2392-4599
I don't mean to interject, but there is one thing to factor: Geno made a Cameo in Mario&Luigi. he was stated to be owned by Square, but he still was able to appear in that game. And I heavily doubt that Square would send a cease and desist order to NINTENDO, of all people. they only did that once to an indie game company 5 years ago.
 

drag0nscythe

Smash Master
Joined
Sep 2, 2007
Messages
3,268
is it safe to come out now?
Has the battle over babes ended?

Anyway, what kind of bosses would people want to see in an adventure mode? I would like to fight Palutina, O2, Bemon beast Ganon and even the Golden dragon from Fire Emblem.

What kind of bosses would you guys like to see?
 

Mario the Jumpman

Smash Ace
Joined
Jun 4, 2009
Messages
565
Location
Why would I tell you guys that?
is it safe to come out now?
Has the battle over babes ended?

Anyway, what kind of bosses would people want to see in an adventure mode? I would like to fight Palutina, O2, Bemon beast Ganon and even the Golden dragon from Fire Emblem.

What kind of bosses would you guys like to see?
Mario the Jumpman:

A good idea for a Smash 4 boss is the giant fish guy (I forgot his name, but I think it starts with a "G") from Zelda: Majora's Mask. Think about it: It would be SSB4's first fight to involve swimming in water, and it could push the Smash series in a new direction.
 

pacmansays

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jun 5, 2009
Messages
357
Location
England
Mario the Jumpman:

A good idea for a Smash 4 boss is the giant fish guy (I forgot his name, but I think it starts with a "G") from Zelda: Majora's Mask. Think about it: It would be SSB4's first fight to involve swimming in water, and it could push the Smash series in a new direction.

Hmm that would be interesting, I did like the brief swimming in water in Brawl and it would be great if it was expanded upon more.
 

Scarzig

Smash Rookie
Joined
Apr 2, 2009
Messages
7
These are my ideas for SB4.

In no particular order.

Knuckle Joe added to roster. He's an assist trophy, so it's almost done xD.

I think Midna would be an interesting character as well.

Ephraim from Fire Emblem Sacred Stones. Might have major problem though, he looks really similar to Marth, and he has a lance, so his range would be kinda broken.

Bowser Jr. I have no ideas for this charcter, but a big fan could easily fill in the gaps. (Check the Blooper stats above this post)

No random tripping (does anyone need to say this?). Tripping on bananas and by being hit by certain moves are ok though.

Sonic's side smash should have been the Sonic Flare from the GBA game Sonic Battle. (Look it up, you'll agree.)

I'd want Knuckles and Chaos Zero added too, but that would open a door to hell. All the fans would cry out for Amy, Shadow, Tails, E102, Espio, etc.

Pokemon has an extremely long list of possible new characters, but too many would unbalance the roster between the different games.

If I could choose those few to add, I would pick Blaziken, (bring back Mewtwo, duh), and Scizor.

More costumes.

Racoon Mario/Luigi
Black/White/Purple Yoshi (might as well add the rest of the colors right?)
Make Link's boots not purple in his blue tunic.
Or just give him the Zora Armor from TP.


uh....that's all I can think of, maybe more later?
 

Scarzig

Smash Rookie
Joined
Apr 2, 2009
Messages
7
1)Stickers should stay, there should be a stickers option in Special Brawl, so you can actually use them for something besides SSE

2)Brawl's music is amazing, and shouuld stay.

I posted this a while ago, but it was drowned out very quickly, so I thought it was worth another mention. What do people think about Momohime, the hero of Muramasa, making it into Smash, as she looks like an interesting character (Captain Tights + Marth?) and potentially a great game?

I was randomly wading through the 1200+ pages of the thread and came across this. The characters from Muramasa would rock IF the game does well, and IF the movesets between them.

The game claims to have 108(?) different swords AKA special techs for them, so widdling that down could be a hassle.

Would they be 2-d like G&W? (xD)
 

Clownbot

Smash Lord
Joined
Jun 9, 2009
Messages
1,851
SSB4 Boss Ideas

Kracko or Dyna Blade
Kraid (or a boss from Metroid: Other M)
Andross
A boss from the next Zelda Wii game, maybe?
Giratina (or a legendary from a new generation)
Dr. Robotnik
Bass or Dr. Wily (if Mega Man gets in, of course)
Perhaps Mewtwo could reappear as a hideously difficult boss and be all, "Who's top tier now, *****?"

@Scarzig: the Kirby series is fine with the reps it has right now. Knuckle Joe isn't important enough in the series to be playable.
 

drag0nscythe

Smash Master
Joined
Sep 2, 2007
Messages
3,268
Kracko or Dyna Blade
Kraid (or a boss from Metroid: Other M)
Andross
A boss from the next Zelda Wii game, maybe?
Giratina (or a legendary from a new generation)
Dr. Robotnik
Bass or Dr. Wily (if Mega Man gets in, of course)
Perhaps Mewtwo could reappear as a hideously difficult boss and be all, "Who's top tier now, *****?"

@Scarzig: the Kirby series is fine with the reps it has right now. Knuckle Joe isn't important enough in the series to be playable.
This is a good list. It is almost exactly what I wanted to see.
I was going to use Dark matter instead of Dyna Blade
I have Kraid
I have Andross
I was going to use Grohma
I was going to use Darkrai
I have Eggman
I have Dr. Wily
and I want mewtwo to come back playable.

Perfect. I am on the right track then.
Time for some cheese.
 

Wizzerd

Smash Ace
Joined
Feb 24, 2009
Messages
929




DEAD HAND

Dead Hand is a miniboss fought in the Bottom of the Well and the Shadow Temple in The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time. He is commonly regarded as one of the creepiest bosses in all of Zelda. Dead Hand was fought inside a small cavern filled with long arms sprouting out of the ground. If Link walked in range of them, they would grope and grab him, and Dead Hand would emerge from the ground to slowly consume Link. Once he defeated him in the Shadow Temple, Link gained the Hover Boots, which allowed him to walk on the air to reach far away platforms.

STATISTICS

Priority - 8
Size - 8
Traction - 7
Power - 6
Fall Speed - 6
Weight - 6
Recovery - 4
Range - 2
Attack Speed - 1
Movement Speed - .5

Some of Dead Hand's statistics end up dramatically good. He has some power to back up his attacks, his Side Special, Devour, being one of the most powerful moves in the game. His priority allows him to cancel attacks like the Whorenado without any effort on his part, though his priority does tend to be erratic, just being good more often than bad. He has a decent bit of weight as well, though his size makes this more of a disadvantage, him being combo fodder. But Dead Hand has some really horrible stats as well. His attack speed and range mean that it's practically impossible for him to land attacks on his own. Most notably, he has the most horrible movement speed in the game. His dash is approximately the speed of Ganondorf's walk, and his aerial DI is about half that of the Ice Climbers, which was already bad. Dead Hand is going to need to incapacitate his opponents before he lands attacks...

SPECIAL ATTACKS

Neutral Special - Dead Limb
Dead Hand lets out a feeble croak, summoning a pale, bloody arm the height of Ganondorf but as wide as a Pokeball to rise up from the ground directly in front of himself. This is an extremely quick animation, lasting about as long as a spotdodge. Dead Hand can make up to three of these, and they remain onstage for a massive thirty seconds unless their 20 stamina is removed. Arms have no flinching animation, attacking right through other attacks, though they have no priority.

If anyone comes within half a Battlefield platform of either side of the arm, it slams to the side towards the character to grab them. This has bad ending lag if it misses, and the range causing it to grab is barely longer than the range of the grab, so by slowly advancing on it one can punish the ending lag with no effort. If the arm does grab the character, it drags them back to its original position, holding them over the ground until they button mash out with grab difficulty. If any part of the move causes the character to go within range of multiple arms, they all grab the character, holding them in the center of the leftmost and rightmost ones. Each extra arm makes it another grab's worth more difficult to escape, so with two arms it takes twice as much button mashing and with three triple as much. Dead Hand can use his grab to take control of the arm to use his throws, but usually this is your cue to advance on the foe. Now it's actually possible to land your laggy, close-ranged attacks and finish off the opponent with Devour...
[No Damage]

Side Special - Devour
Dead Hand does a grasping motion with startup lag and range half that of Melee Koopa Klaw. The ending lag is pretty bad on a miss, however. If Dead Hand manages to grab with this, he steadily begins chomping on the opponent's face, dealing them 3% about three times a second. While this isn't much of a damage dealer on its own, Dead Limbs can grab the opponent at the same time, each making it more difficult to button mash out by a factor of 50% in the same fashion as the Neutral Special, making this highly effective as a damage dealer.

If Dead Hand manages to keep his grip on the opponent for 1.5 seconds- which is at around 120%, but much less if you have Dead Limbs grabbing the opponent, 75% with all three- Dead Hand forces the opponent down his throat. This instantly KOs the opponent and heals Dead Hand of a massive 50%. This may sound like a lot, but Dead Hand's poor defense and approaches mean that his damage is going to be going up very quickly on its own, so this is really just stalling the inevitable. This is his only KO move outside of gimping (which is practically impossible with him) as well as one of his only damage dealers, so you can imagine it's quite vital to him.

Dead Hand can grab projectiles or items out of the air with this, him eating them to heal himself of the damage it would have done, even with explosive ones. This is a pretty quick animation so it's pretty useful on projectile spammers.
[3% + 50% Healed]

Up Special - Clawings of the D*mned
Dead Hand throws his hands into the air as if appealing to a higher deity for startup lag comparable to the length of a spotdodge. Dead Hand can hold this position for up to 1.5 seconds, having super armor during the period and even floating in midair if necessary. There's a bit of lag to exit this stance. This can be moderately useful to avoid powerful hits, but it's really not so useful as it just makes him take damage even quicker than he normally does.

As long as Dead Hand holds this stance, all Dead Limbs he has planted around the stage begin rushing to him wherever he is at the speed of Zero Suit Samus's dash, returning back to where they were at the same speed once they touch him/reach his vertical plane. If Dead Hand is offstage, the Dead Limbs rush towards his nearest ledge, stretching off the ledge like a tether once they reach it the distance of a four Pikmin Pikmin Chain. Each successive hand adds another four Pikmin to the total, so this has double the recovery potential of a full Pikmin Chain with all three Dead Limbs. The chain of hands reaches towards Dead Hand for up to a second before leaving the ledge and going back to their original position. If Dead Hand touches the end of the chain, he's pulled back up to the ledge. This can't be edgehogged, as the hands force any opponent off the ledge with a footstool effect, though it's easy enough to hit Dead Hand as he comes back up, though he does still have super armor. The rushing Dead Limbs are hitboxes dealing 6% and weak set knockback behind them.

If Dead Hand is close enough to the ledge when he initiates this, he's assured to reach the ledge. Still, this is a rather poor recovery, namely because it's so easy to rack free damage on. During the whole time Dead Hand has super armor competent opponents will be constantly whacking him with high damage attacks. His Dead Limbs are begging to be destroyed as well during this as well, though this will artificially lengthen their lifespan if so, them dying once returning to their original position. Try to minimize damage taken as much as you can.
[6%]

Down Special - Burrow
Two sandy waves, the height of Dead Hand but very thin, radiate to each side of Dead Hand the distance of half a Battlefield platform, dealing 6% and weak set knockback as a pseudo-projectile. A wave covers Dead Hand's side facing the screen as well, blocking him from view. Once the ring of sand disappears, Dead Hand is gone. After a very short period of time (almost a third of a second) Dead Hand reappears in another ring of sand half a Battlefield platform away from the nearest opponent, the hitbox appearing as normal. However, Dead Hand reappears to where the opponent was when he initiated the move. This can be quite a long time, in which the opponent can move away quite easily. This seems like a useful approach at first glance, but it's really quite incompetent at it when you get to it.

Still, if the opponent is grabbed by a Dead Limb when you initiate this, this is a much more useful precursor to a number of moves, namely Devour. This can be a great setup for a Devour KO. Still, due to the lag allowing for more button mashing out, this means that Devour will kill about 50% later than normal. For this reason, it's vastly preferable to go through the nightmare of manually approaching the opponent so you can kill with Devour. If you can't, though, this is always there for you.
[6%]

STANDARD ATTACKS

Neutral Attack - D*mnation Howl
Dead Hand slightly tilts his head to the heavens and lets out a drawn-out, creepy howl. This creates a series of invisible hitboxes in succession in front of Dead Hand, each a character distance ahead of the previous one, and each lasting a quarter of a second. Each deals 3% with set knockback right into the next attack, and the final one does a good bit of hitstun, plenty of time to safely approach. There are four in total for a potential 12%. While it may seem counterintuitive to use this move as an approach when he has to be right next to the opponent, Dead Hand might not even be able to complete an approach, so this is a nice way of securing an approach once you reach there. Still, this is rather punishable when missed.
[12%]

Dash Attack - Sliding to a Stop
Dead Hand, with nearly no animation, clenches his arms against his chest and begins to slide to a stop, double the distance Luigi would after equivalent movement, despite the vast movement speed difference. However, Dead Hand moves about half as fast. During the period, Dead Hand is an average prioritized hitbox dealing 6%.

This is an utterly garbage move and the reason dashing with Dead Hand is such a bad idea. It slows down his movement overall, and what's worse is that it's so easy to accidentally use, as Dead Hand's traction makes him slide for a while but not speedily at all (hence the 7 rating) and he'll use this dash attack out of it instead of his regular jab! Dead Hand can -still- benefit from dashing, but it's very risky.
[6%]

TILT ATTACKS

Forward Tilt - Mouth Depths
Dead Hand points his head forward square in front of his body and opens his mouth like Wario's Chomp, with no startup lag. However, it doesn't stretch out at all, only covering one quarter of Dead Hand's body. He can angle it freely without suffering from much lag, but due to his size he can't aim it to the very top or very bottom of his body. Once the button input is released, Dead Hand's head returns to where it was before with moderately punishable ending lag.

Dead Hand's head is a hitbox dealing 6% and mediocre set knockback (though the priority is nice); however, the attack is not the point. If Dead Hand points his head at an incoming projectile, he literally eats (well, it actually just disappears, but it's obvious enough), it disappearing as if it had never existed. Dead Hand won't suffer from any lag eating a projectile, and he won't take damage or extra lag from eating an explosive either. This won't see much use, but it serves its purpose of preventing Dead Hand from being easily stopped by projectile spam. A good thing, too, as he'd be very vulnerable to it otherwise!
[6%]

Up Tilt - Bloat
Dead Hand points his head up and begins to rapidly suck in air, as long as the A button is held. Dead Hand can hold this indefinitely; however, there's little point to it, as after .75 seconds the whole effect is recieved. Once the A button is released, Dead Hand appears puffed up and bloated from all the air he's inhaled, moreso if he's inflated himself for longer. This doesn't enlarge his hurtbox. For 3-7 seconds depending on how long Dead Hand sucked in air, his body gains moderate priority from all the bloat, slightly better the more bloated. This means that weaker attacks will bounce right off of Dead Hand, though stronger moves like Smash Attacks are left intact. As the time limit progresses, Dead Hand deflates, which lowers the body priority bonus. Overall, this is a nice way of countering the pressure Dead Hand would normally fall prey to.
[No Damage]

Down Tilt - Kiss of Death
Dead Hand claws at the opponent with a touch of lag. If this misses, Dead Hand suffers from some ending lag, though it isn't crippling. If he connects, the opponent is captured by a grab hitbox until they escape with button mashing with grab difficulty. With the A button, Dead Hand can plant a "kiss" on the opponent with nearly no lag, being perfectly spammable and dealing 2%.

This may sound like a broken damage dealer, but note that each of the kisses stale to 1% on their own and the ending lag upon release increases for each kiss. After ten kisses, the opponent is automatically released and Dead Hand suffers from ending lag about a third of that of Lucas's Up Smash. The ending lag varies between zero to this depending on the amount of kisses. This is all about mindgames and prediction here; do you plant a few kisses as not to risk it or go all out and risk the ending lag and punishability?
[Variable Damage]

SMASH ATTACKS

Forward Smash - Succubus
Dead Hand fans out his arms to the sides as he charges, than grasps forward in an animation practically identical to his Side Special upon release, albeit with a little more ending lag on a miss. However, if he manages to grab an opponent, instead of biting them as long as they are held, he sinks his teeth into his forehead, sucking out their blood. This deals them 2% every third of a second until they button mash out, and Dead Hand is healed each time by the same amount. Like the Side Special, the grasp of Dead Limbs can stack on the difficulty to button mash out, and it's just as important, as it's weak otherwise. Of course, you'll build more damage on an opponent with a lot already.

With a charge the move doesn't become any more powerful, but the ending lag decreases. C-Sticked this move has ending lag about two-thirds that of Lucas's Up Smash, so the damage gained may not make up for the damage dealt and damage healed, but it's almost nothing fully charged, making it much safer. You'll want to estimate how early you can release this so that this won't be punished to nullify it. It's very much worth it once you do, as this is quite vital for damaging the opponent and healing Dead Hand.
[Variable Damage + Variable Healing]

Up Smash - Drool
Dead Hand vaguely points his head forward as he charges. Upon release, 18-26 drops of drool drop out of his mouth evenly distributed the distance of two Pokeballs within half a second. Each drop is a projectile deals a mere 1%, but nice flinching. However, if the opponent isn't placed right, this is fairly easy to DI out of; since the drool drops are evenly distributed, it could be a relatively long time before one lands. However, if the opponent is directly in front of Dead Hand, this move becomes much easier to use, all of the drops landing wherever they fall and this not being as punishable as it was before. Note that this is one of Dead Hand's only attacks without startup or ending lag, though it's plenty punishable, giving this another potential use. This is one of your best incentives to get up close to the opponent, but hardly your only one.
[18% - 26%]

Down Smash - Dead Shadow
Dead Hand barely exits his idle stance as he charges, flattening into the ground with no lag upon release. This leaves behind a shadow the same size as Dead Hand was before, wherever he was; it can be moved around at four times Dead Hand's normal dash speed (which admittedly is still pretty horrible, on the level of Ganondorf's dash). After 2-5 seconds depending on charge time, Dead Hand pops right out of the shadow, there being some lag this time, though it isn't horrible.

While this is a viable way of movement, especially considering how much of an improvement it is in terms of speed, the lag at the end is punishable, especially by any character with any comboing facility at all, considering how comboable Dead Hand is. For this reason, this is not very valuable as an escape or approach. No, this is useful to emerge on the opponent... when they're grabbed by a Dead Limb and it's too early for Burrow to be usable, this is how you emerge on the opponent.
[No Damage]

AERIAL ATTACKS

Neutral Aerial - Sadistic Carriage
Dead Hand faces downward and briefly grasps, forming a grab hitbox. This has even worse range than Side Special and Forward Smash due to the contortion, and the grab hitbox is awkwardly positioned directly beneath Dead Hand. Still, the ending lag is a lot smaller, though it isn't insignificant, and there's more startup lag.

If Dead Hand manages to grab anyone, he won't throw them, just flipping over and holding onto them while dealing 2% three times a second until reaching the ground, at which point both Dead Hand and the opponent suffer from hideous landing lag. As it might sound, this is a suicide KO over a blastzone, but Dead Hand dies before his opponent, so this isn't usable when he has only one stock left. This is still an excellent means of KOing after securing a lead. Another use is to grab the opponent over a Dead Limb, them being grabbed during the landing lag, though Dead Hand can't capitalize on it all too well since this landing lag is so horrible.
[Variable Damage]

Forward Aerial - Snap Up
Dead Hand points his head forward, angled slightly upward, for about half a second before retracting it. There's no hitbox here, though Dead Hand's head has surprisingly good priority. Still, the hitbox for the priority is rather awkward, and Dead Hand has better options for this anyway like Forward Tilt.

If an opponent comes in contact with Dead Hand while his head is out, they're swallowed into the depths of Dead Hand's stomach. Dead Hand stays bloated and paralyzed for half a second before spitting them forward the distance a Dedede would with Inhale, albeit angled downward slightly. This deals them 9%, and once they hit the ground, they take hitstun a little better than Falco's Laser, allowing for punishment from one of your attacks that isn't laggy... or setting up for a Dead Limb grab.
[9%]

Back Aerial - Twisting Snap
Dead Hand opens his mouth wide and tilts his head back, his long neck lengthening even more, and snaps his mouth closed, dealing 14% with rather sharp knockback, actually the largest Dead Hand can do with a single attack. This has a narrow and awkward hitbox, bad landing lag, and there's about .4 seconds of delay between the input and the attack itself, but it has a nice effect if you do land it. This could edgeguard if you're offstage. Of course, what are you doing offstage in the first place!?
[14%]

Up Aerial - Floormaster
Dead Hand thrusts his hands up like Wario's Up Tilt, albeit significantly laggier. This deals 7% with barely acceptable knockback; however, the attack is not the point. If Dead Hand manages to complete the entire .3 second animation without being interrupted (It continues if he hits the ground), a patch of deep purple shadowy fluid surrounds each Dead Limb on the stage. For five seconds, each of these hands gains movement speed on the level of Ganondorf's dash, them chasing down where the opponent will land (nearest one in FFAs). If any opponent of Dead Hand lands on them, they're automatically grabbed as normal. One of your most useful tools for getting that one grab in.
[7%]

Down Aerial - Living Coffin
Dead Hand stretches out his pale body the same distance on each side, making him about twice as wide, and flattening to about half his former height, for about .75 seconds or once he hits the ground, which makes him suffer from bad landing lag. His body thankfully gains some average priority during this, so his newly easy to hit body can't be taken advantage of too easily. Dead Hand also falls at half the speed, though his horrible aerial DI is left intact. There's no attack, but Dead Hand is solid during this state. He can't be jumped through at all. This is a highly valuable gimper if it lands, but it's almost always a suicide KO since he's still no Jigglypuff or Wario and he stays in this state for a rather long time. This can also be used to help teammates recover in team matches, though again, Dead Hand probably will have to sacrifice his own life for this.
[No Damage]

GRAB ATTACKS

Grab - Beckoning to the Underworld
Dead Hand leans back for an eternity before grabbing forward. This has both startup and ending lag, bad range comparable to the Ice Climbers
*sniff*
and it telegraphs hideously. You won't be grabbing with this anytime soon... unless you grab someone out of a Dead Limb...
[No Damage]

Pummel - Grind
Dead Hand presses a hand to the opponent's face and twists it, grinding against their body. This deals 1% and is not easily spammable; however, this can build up more damage than most pummels seeing as Dead Limbs can be grabbing the opponent at the same time for a 50% bonus in escaping difficulty like Side Special and Forward Smash.
[1%]

Forward Throw - Sick Swing
Dead Hand leans back like a pendulum, swings back and releases, dealing the opponent 6% with mediocre set knockback. This usually sees standard use if only for how quick it is, but if this is used on an opponent grabbed by a Dead Limb they remain grabbed afterwards, easily grabbed again to spam this and build up damage. This is one of Dead Hand's more reliable ways of building up damage on a grabbed opponent, though Side Special is generally preferable if you don't have multiple Dead Limbs grabbing the opponent.
[6%]

Back Throw - Vomit
Dead Hand tosses the opponent back with a Battlefield platform of set knockback and 2%, then immediately puking up a thin stream of vomit that arcs down to a Battlefield platform away. The stream of vomit deals multiple hits for up to 14%, and is practically impossible to DI out of. However, it's possible to techroll out of the initial toss, and even then smaller opponents like Kirby and Olimar have the stream miss them altogether, though this is somewhat reliable on medium to large foes. This is never the most reliable move ever, but considering that it does 1% less than that one throw Warlord loves referencing so much, it's still plenty useful.
[2% + 13%]

Up Throw - Choke Down
Dead Hand tosses the opponent into his mouth and begins to cough and retch, his opponent slowly being swallowed into the depths of his stomach. He takes about half a second to swallow the opponent (longer than it sounds), and the opponent can button mash out with grab difficulty as he swallows them. If the opponent manages to escape, Dead Hand suffers from highly punishable ending lag, so be careful! If he does manage to choke them down all the way, Dead Hand points his head forward and retches the opponent forward, flecked with bits of vomit and flesh (and not Dead Hand's pale flesh...) the distance of a Dedede using Inhale. This deals them an impressive 8% and heals Dead Hand of the same amount, putting him 16% ahead of the opponent! However, the unreliability and punishability prevent this from being an amazingly useful move.
[8% + 8% Healed]

Down Throw - Fresh Meat
Dead Hand slams the opponent into the ground for only 1% and decent upwards knockback, angled a little to the right to prevent chaingrabbing. This isn't all that useful ordinarily, but if a Dead Limb is within a Stage Builder Block of the opponent as they slam into the ground, they grab them, drag them into the background and mass chomping noises are heard before release. This deals the opponent 5%, and fully heals the Dead Limb's stamina. If multiple Dead Limbs are in range, they each deal an additional 5% for up to 15% and all are healed. Nice!
[1% + 5% - 15%]

FINAL SMASH - TOMB

Dead Hand lets out a drawn-out, eerie cackle, staring at the screen forebodingly... a moment later, the screen blacks out, and when it reappears, the stage is replaced by Dead Hand's arena for his boss fight in Ocarina of Time. This is a deep sandy brown cavern flecked with blood and nicked with scratches, the width of Final Destination (the main platform, not the whole stage) and the height of Yoshi's Island. It's a walk-off stage, and there are no platforms, just the floor and the blastzones. There are three Dead Limbs spaced out evenly across the stage, them acting just like the ones from Dead Hand's Neutral Special. There are three more to the sides of each in the background for a total of six Dead Limbs, forming a circle you can see if you rotate the camera. This lasts for a long 15 seconds before the screen blacks out and returns to regular gameplay.

So this is just a mechanic booster? Hardly. While six Dead Limbs are nice, the fact that some are right next to each other tends to defeat the purpose of having lots of them to spread out, and a good Dead Hand player would have these up quickly anyway. There aren't any large clumps either, so there are none of those shenanigans from bunches of them.

What makes this Final Smash dangerous is the enemies that come in. Regularly throughout the Final Smash, various undead and creepy enemies from Ocarina of Time clamber out of the shadows, ready to fight off the opponent. As a rule, the enemies that come out are powerful and numerous, but easily disposed of and dodgeable if one knows what they are doing. Note that this can't KO an enemy twice, them not reappearing until the end of the Final Smash if KOed. If every opponent of Dead Hand in the match is KOed in this manner, the Final Smash ends early.



Ah, ReDead, the classical undead Zelda enemy. ReDeads act quite similar to the way they do in Melee, having the same AI and movement speed, as well as 25 stamina. They are the size of Marth. However, they attack differently. If a ReDead comes in contact with an opponent of Dead Hand, they latch on to their heads, dealing them 6% about three to four times a second. ReDeads can be removed like Pikmin by attacking with close-ranged attacks. However, they must be hit high up due to latching onto heads, and they won't fall off until losing all of their stamina and disappearing. ReDeads appear every three seconds during the Final Smash, so four of them will come out (since one won't come out at the very end), so they're one of the more common enemies. ReDeads are weak but make up for it with their number.
[Variable Damage]



Poe, the other classic undead Zelda enemy. They are the size of Ness, though they float over the ground to evade low attacks like Down Tilts. Left alone, Poes float around an area of a Battlefield platform at a slow speed, even slower than Bowser's dash. If any opponent of Dead Hand walks within another Battlefield platform in front of the Poe, they'll be chased down directly (floating straight up and down, not being limited to ground movement) at the speed of Ganondorf's dash, not letting up until the opponent goes 1.5 Battlefield platforms away from the Poe. If the Poe does reach an opponent, they are possessed, indicated by a disembodied mask floating above their heads. While possessed, Dead Hand is able to control the opponent, so he can put them into helpless, use a self-damaging move, lead them into a Dead Limb, anything he wants, until they escape by button mashing with half grab difficulty. If another opponent is possessed, Dead Hand begins controlling them instead while releasing the former opponent. He's invincible while he controls possessed opponents, so don't think you can punish him or anything. Poes have only 15 stamina (though they don't flinch from attacks, being ghosts), and they die automatically once the opponent escapes from being possessed. They always spawn within a one second period of a ReDead, whether before or after, so one appears four times throughout the Final Smash. Poes are tricky to utilize properly but can potentially be very powerful used right.
[No Damage]



Bubbles are semi-recurring enemies in the Zelda series. Here, they are moderately common enemies in the Final Smash. Bubbles are the size of Kirby, with 20 stamina, and float over the ground like Poes to evade low attacks. Their movement pattern is identical to Poes, pacing around a certain area before chasing down opponents. However, instead of a possession effect, Bubbles deal 12% with good knockback and a fire effect on contact. A single Bubble that appears during the Final Smash will at random be a Blue Bubble. These have the same AI, but leave the opponent unable to use attacks for three seconds (a while in this Final Smash), though they can dodge regularly. A Bubble will appear during the Final Smash at the four, eight and twelve second marks, and any of these can be the Blue Bubble. Bubbles are basic enemies that are nice to interrupt an opponent before a stronger enemy comes in.
[[12%]



Skulltulas aren't undead, but they appeared in the Bottom of the Well and the Shadow Temple as common Ocarina of Time enemies. Here, Skulltulas are fairly common, appearing three times. They are each the height of Fox but much skinnier, and have only 10 stamina. Skulltulas will slam down from the top of the screen on a random opponent at the speed of a Bowser using Bowser Bomb, hanging on their web-strand. They won't do anything to attack except being there, dealing 12% to any opponent of Dead Hand unlucky enough to walk into them. While they have low stamina, hitting them anywhere beside their back won't cause them any damage, attacks bouncing off their thick exoskeleton as if they were powershielded. They turn around to face the opponent (unless there are multiple opponents in an FFA), so it isn't easy to sneak up on them. However, after a second of being out, they flip around for .3 seconds, easily destroyable if you know what you're doing. Still, they reel back up their web-strand after two seconds, so it's best to just leave them be. Skulltullas appear at the two, seven and twelve second marks during the Final Smash. Skulltulas aren't powerful but they make the opponent wary of where they step.
[12%]



Floormasters are constant thorns in the side of many Zelda fans. There are two varieties of Floormaster: the normal kind, and the Wallmaster. Both appear during the Final Smash, and since there are two time periods for a Floormaster to emerge, you'll see each once. Both are the size of Donkey Kong with their bottom chopped off to avoid low attacks, and both have 25 stamina. The first kind, the regular Floormaster, will simply sweep across the bottom of the stage at the speed of Captain Falcon's dash, them covering the entire stage in a second or two. On contact, Floormasters deal no damage, but instead grab the opponent, dragging the opponent offstage if they have a moderate amount of damage and they can't button mash out. The other kind is the Wallmaster. Wallmasters fall down from the top of the screen over a random opponent at the speed of a Bowser using his Bowser Bomb. They won't alter their path, so they can be rolldodged away, and like any good stall-then-fall, there's a noticable stall. They also grab the opponent and pull them offstage. They move upwards at a slower speed, but since the arena is much wider than it is tall, they start killing at around the same time. A Floormaster or Wallmaster will appear at the 3 second and 8 second point, and each variety has an equal chance of appearing each time. They're one of the better finishers in this Final Smash, but they don't damage deal at all and are notoriously dodgeable and unreliable.
[No Damage]



Stalfos are always some of the most powerful enemies in Zelda games, and are no different here. A Stalfos is the size of Ike and has an impressive 35 stamina. They walk towards the nearest opponent, shield up, at the speed of Ganondorf's dash. As their shield is up, attacks hitting their front will bounce off as if powershielded, just like the Skulltula, and opponents can sneak up on their rear just the same. Stalfos has two attacks to use. The first is a basic sword chop, quick to come out but with a little ending lag, which deals 11% with pretty good horizontal knockback, obviously being disjointed. Stalfos will use this attack whenever he gets in range. The other attack is a spinning attack, just like Link's, which covers both sides and deals 18% with very good horizontal knockback. The startup lag is only a little longer than the sword chop, but the ending lag is very bad, so be careful! Stalfos will use this attack a second after every two sword chops, even if the opponent isn't in range. Stalfos can only be damaged during his lag frames while his shield is down, and he pulls it immediately back up once hit, making him very difficult to take down in one hit. Fortunately for the opponent, only one appears during the Final Smash at the 8 second mark, being the best finisher in it, hands down.
[11%]
[18%]

Overall, Tomb is a Final Smash that n00bs will find broken. The enemies are extremely powerful, and being hit just a single time by an enemy will result in being hit by many more due to the ricochet. Still, competent players can find a way to dodge each and every attack of the enemies while disposing of all of them (this is actually the premise of Event Match 42). Still, Tomb is one of the potential deadliest Final Smashes in the game, if it's used correctly.

PLAYSTYLE

If you try to play Dead Hand as you would any other character, you're doomed to failure. Dead Hand plays quite unlike any other character in the game. Instead of trying to seize the offensive through damage dealing and KO moves, Dead Hand is generally going to be staying far, far away from the opponent through the match. There should ideally be only a single time a stock when Dead Hand goes to close range, and that's when the opponent is completely helpless and grabbed by Dead Limbs. It's the only time he needs, as the moment he gets to close range is the effective moment the opponent is dead. The rest of the time, Dead Hand should be at a range more concerned with himself. Why?

Because Dead Hand is one of the easiest characters to combo in the game. Having a large size and little weight to back it up, anyone from Sheik to Ganondorf can walk up and Up Tilt or Down Tilt his percentage up, and there's little he can do about it. Indeed, his moves do very little to help this. They're slow as molasses and aren't that powerful, and their range is piss-poor. Priority is the only thing they have going for them. Thankfully, Dead Hand has a couple of quick hits in his arsenal in Neutral Attack and Up Smash. He's going to be using these a lot, to defend his highly vulnerable hurtbox.

So Dead Hand is clearly a bottom tier garbage character since he can barely ever seize the offensive, right? That's just the thing. While Dead Hand is rarely going to be on the offensive, once he is, the opponent is good as KOed. Once grabbed by a Dead Limb, Dead Hand can approach or just emerge with Down Special or Down Smash... and once he gets there... he has some highly powerful close ranged attacks. The most obvious of these is Devour, which is a damage dealer, a KOer, a mindgamer (because it looks very similar to many other attacks), anything it needs to be. But beyond that, Dead Hand can use his Down Tilt, Forward Smash, Up Smash, and most of all, use his grab. Dead Hand is rarely going to land a grab, but once he does, he has some scary throws.

Of course, getting to close range is a nightmare. The vital way you'll be doing this is by planting your Dead Limbs. Finding the time for the animation isn't a problem here. No, Dead Limbs come up with very little lag, and it's tricky to remove their stamina due to antsiness of the grab. No, the challenge is figuring out where to place them. Spreading them across the stage allows for easy coverage, but no clumps where it's extra dangerous. Placing them in clumps completely shuts off areas and allows for easy consumption when it comes down to it (due to multiple Dead Limbs grabbing on at once), but leaves entire areas uncovered. Finding the best way to strike fear into the heart of the opponent and the terror once they are helpless- finding the best ways is a key component of Dead Hand's playstyle.

Once the opponent finally gets grabbed, things get a whole lot easier. Getting over there to begin punishing them is the only moderately difficult part. At the right percentage Down Special is always the best option, but otherwise you can either dash over or use Down Smash. Dashing over is the safest, Down Smash is the fastest.

Still, it doesn't matter in the end, as you'll consume them in some way or another. At close range Dead Hand is going to be using Devour a whole lot. It's quick, it's spammable, it does nearly anything. There are other close ranged moves like Down Tilt, Forward Smash and Up Smash, but none of them are as menacing as Devour. Still, they have their uses. In any case, once the opponent is grabbed and Dead Hand gets over there they should never be released. Potential cheap tactics abound where Dead Limbs release opponents into other Dead Limbs or Dead Hand himself, or opponents stay grabbed for a ridiculous time, whatever works. And then, at the very end, consume them with Devour. They can't avoid it, and it heals you of a good chunk of the inevitable damage you've accumulated across the match.

Once Dead Hand gets ahead in stock, his options get a lot more varied. He now has suicide KOs to solidify his lead. Instead of wasting time on shenanigans to get that one grab in, why not take them down with you? Dead Hand has three tools for suicide KOs: Neutral Aerial, Forward Aerial and Down Aerial. Neutral Aerial is the most dependable and straightforward but isn't too powerful. Forward Aerial is great once it lands and might even KO the opponent without Dead Hand dying himself if he spits them off a blastzone, but it's tricky to land and use properly. Down Aerial is the most versatile but it's practically impossible to just kill the opponent with it. Use these moves, and use them well.

Dead Hand is usually going to want to confine the fight to the stage. He can't gimp worth a d*mn, and unlike certain other characters, there's nothing else he really has to do with free time, making him rather vulnerable to aircamping. If he gets offstage Dead Hand is assured to return to the stage if the user knows what they're doing, but it's inevitable that he'll accumulate a load of damage, and be unable to escape it due to the super armor of Clawings of the D*mned. It's known for competent foes to accumulate as much as 40% from being knocked offstage and being forced to recover. Keep the opponents down on the stage firmly and things are much simpler.

Overall, Dead Hand's a character of opportunity and seizing the possibilities. Over the course of the match Dead Hand will accumulate damage and be KOed quite easily, but once he gains a bit of leeway, he'll use the leverage to get in that single grab. And then, it's a slippery slope for the opponent until they finally get consumed, and they will finally know the true meaning of fear. The force of fear is a powerful one, and one that talented players will grab and run with to go far with Dead Hand.

EXTRAS

Up Taunt
Dead Hand points his head to the heavens and lets out a long, feeble moan. His voice cracks at the end, and Dead Hand coughs, spitting out a little vomit in the process.

Side Taunt
Dead Hand pulls out a human corpse... and eats it!

Down Taunt
Dead Hand curls up into a little ball of pale flesh, as petty whimpering noises are heard, before emerging like an animal from an egg. Notably, Dead Hand can evade certain attacks with this like a crouch. It's actually lower to the ground than his real crouch...

Up Victory Pose
Dead Hand's opponents are nowhere to be seen on the stage. Dead Hand himself appears bloated, and lets out a single burp before keeling over and falling asleep.

Side Victory Pose
Dead Hand holds his hands up and inches the bottom of his body (he has no legs!) towards the screen. Apparently he's only pretending, as he'll continue doing this until the victory screen is exited.

Down Victory Pose
Dead Hand lies in his victory, barely even moving. Occasionally he twitches a limb or a bit of his body bulges out.

Loss Pose
Dead Hand claps for the winner, a little too eagerly. Maybe he has some kind of plan...

Victory Music
The opening to Middle Boss Battle.

Alternate Costumes
  • Regular Dead Hand.
  • Blood red tinted Dead Hand.
  • Sickly green tinted Dead Hand.
  • Vomit colored Dead Hand.
  • Black, crusted skin Dead Hand.
  • Grayscale Dead Hand.

Kirby Hat
Kirby gains a pale, white head, just like Dead Hand's, as well as a creepier mouth. Kirby can use his Neutral Special, Dead Limb, for the same effect. Unfortunately, it isn't nearly as useful for him.

Codec Conversation
Snake: These kids are going too far just to look cool. This goth tool looks half dead.
Colonel: Snake, that's Dead Hand. He's an undead creature that feasts on the flesh of humans.
Snake: So now they give themselves alternate names? And backstories?
Colonel: Snake, it's real. Wait! It's slowly advancing on you!
Snake: The kid probably wants to talk about its feelings. I'm happy to oblige.
Colonel: Snake? Snake? SNAAAAAAKE!
 

SmashChu

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I don't mean to interject, but there is one thing to factor: Geno made a Cameo in Mario&Luigi. he was stated to be owned by Square, but he still was able to appear in that game. And I heavily doubt that Square would send a cease and desist order to NINTENDO, of all people. they only did that once to an indie game company 5 years ago.
I didn't mean a cease and desist for Nintendo. It was just an example about how hard they are on copyright.

On Chronobounds thread: He's smart, but I usually disagree with a lot of his opinions. There are some things I have to say on it, but that will be for another time.
 

Clownbot

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The "G" boss is Gyorg. Also, I would love to see Cortez as a boss to represent the Paper Mario series.
Hooktail or Fracktail would be okay as well imo, or if there's a new Paper Mario game by the time SSB4's out, a boss from that would probably be the best decision.
 

Pieman0920

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I think its a bit hard predicting what bosses will show up at this time, since we've only really had one game to go off of. In that instance, the amount was oddly small, with only four bosses from other games (Counting both forms of Ridley as one character)

That being said, I do not think there will be boss representation for all series, and instead its only apt to assume that around 5 or 6 will get in. I'm also going to bet that there won't be any 3rd party bosses at all, and that there will probably be 2 or 3 bosses that are original, just like Brawl had, and this will include the final boss. That being said, the bosses that do get in, will probably have some high level of significance, like the four that got into Brawl. Thus, a boss like Cortez, or some random boss from the next Zelda game won't show.
 

sundayseclipse

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I think its a bit hard predicting what bosses will show up at this time, since we've only really had one game to go off of. In that instance, the amount was oddly small, with only four bosses from other games (Counting both forms of Ridley as one character)

That being said, I do not think there will be boss representation for all series, and instead its only apt to assume that around 5 or 6 will get in. I'm also going to bet that there won't be any 3rd party bosses at all, and that there will probably be 2 or 3 bosses that are original, just like Brawl had, and this will include the final boss. That being said, the bosses that do get in, will probably have some high level of significance, like the four that got into Brawl. Thus, a boss like Cortez, or some random boss from the next Zelda game won't show.
um i see where your going but you dont have acual fact. once is not a trend.

you cant say wat bosses are in or not because we dont know storyline.your messing a huge independant vairable in that statement
 

Big-Cat

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flyinfilipino has got a point. Krystal may get into Smash 4 even if it means cutting Wolf or Falco. She would be different from Fox.

There are characters from a series I do not want to see in SSB4: and that is Dead or Alive (act mature, people!).
I've said this a number of times: I think Wolf has the greatest risk of being removed with Lucario and possibly Toon Link having the second highest chances.
 

Mario the Jumpman

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Why would I tell you guys that?
I think characters in Smash 4 should have special Battle entrances depending on opponents and teammates. For example, if one of Luigi's/Wario's/Bowser's/Donkey Kong's (possibly...) opponents is Mario, then one of those four will attack Mario and send him flying to his starting point and Mario would get mad at the person who attacked him (a lot like in MUGEN where Homer Simpson attacked Peter Griffin, it was funny).
 

Scott!

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I don't know how well these destined entrances would work. There aren't cut scene intros like some games, and it isn't zoomed in on the characters enough when they appear for it to be very noticeable, though if things were mixed up in the next game as to how they do that stuff, it could work. Though some characters wouldn't have any sensible destined battles. Like, who is ROB destined to fight? Olimar? ICs? If there's one rep from the series, except Sonic (Mario, of course), does anyone make sense for them? Not really.
 

Mario the Jumpman

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Why would I tell you guys that?
I don't know how well these destined entrances would work. There aren't cut scene intros like some games, and it isn't zoomed in on the characters enough when they appear for it to be very noticeable, though if things were mixed up in the next game as to how they do that stuff, it could work. Though some characters wouldn't have any sensible destined battles. Like, who is ROB destined to fight? Olimar? ICs? If there's one rep from the series, except Sonic (Mario, of course), does anyone make sense for them? Not really.
Mario the Jumpman:

Here's how Wario's (as an example) entrance involving attacking Mario would work: the two appear first at the same time, Wario attacks Mario, who then lands on his starting point. And some characters could go without a special entrance. Does it need more thought?
 

Clownbot

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Destined battle entrances sound like a cool idea, and it would be a fun extra to see, but it seems like it would be a waste of time for the developers, and I'd prefer that characters have their single entrance.

@Pieman: Really, how significant is Petey Piranha?
 
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I vote for some middle ground on the "destined battle" thing. Instead of special animations, how about some kind of special script if the conditions are met, like the space animals victory quotes?
 

sundayseclipse

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um forget destined battle. it would waste time, take memory,and have ssb4 take longer to come out.
and the quote idea....no one talks hardly in smash. And also would you want this?
Pika Pika pikachu(translation) a dinner in battle is best served cold(sorry if the quote isnt right word by word)

k new subject

If there were a stage for every character what stage would be theirs. you may use pre existing stages from ssb64 ssbm ,as well as ssbb.
also alowed to use wtf stages like pitco chat and other stuff that comes to mind

enjoy =)
 

Dogboy

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mmkay, changes for brawl...
Ch specific tutorials and adv tech guides.
"Balance" metak, because too many people seem to be beaten by him and therefore go griping about how unbalanced he is.
Fix the glitches that make things broken.
Redo the grphx, because many will want that.

Personal requests for sakurai: ungimp mario! his down b is only good for mind games n edgegaurdin n such!
Oh yeah, a better stage editor and retro ch versions (as in 2d. like mr. gnw).
Maybe a bit better fireball fo mario?

Sonic needs some killing moves, because he has to rely on spikes nwhatnot.. But he can sure dish out some dmg %!
 

Knyaguy

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The only thing I want concerning stages is a Time Machine. This idea has been tossed around when brawl had not been released yet, I did not think this up someone else did. The Time Machine would be a portal to past stages. If you picked it you would be randomly taken to a stage in 64, Melee ,or Brawl. Maybe not all of the stages from the past would be accessible from the Time Machine, only the good ones. Saffron City, Mushroom Kingdom64, Fountain of Dreams et cetera.
 

lordvaati

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mmkay, changes for brawl...
Ch specific tutorials and adv tech guides.
"Balance" metak, because too many people seem to be beaten by him and therefore go griping about how unbalanced he is.
Fix the glitches that make things broken.
Redo the grphx, because many will want that.

Personal requests for sakurai: ungimp mario! his down b is only good for mind games n edgegaurdin n such!
Oh yeah, a better stage editor and retro ch versions (as in 2d. like mr. gnw).
Maybe a bit better fireball fo mario?

Sonic needs some killing moves, because he has to rely on spikes nwhatnot.. But he can sure dish out some dmg %!
-OK
-they just need to not give hm so many recvoeries and change his B
-glitches are a given to get rid of, but sometimes they are good(like the Master Hand Glitch in Melee)
-the graphics looked prety good to me.
-I am 105% behind you on this
-of course
-PILLS!(lol jk)
-well, in his case he traded power for speed, so it balances OK(well except for the accidental SDs by his Dair)
 

drag0nscythe

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um forget destined battle. it would waste time, take memory,and have ssb4 take longer to come out.
and the quote idea....no one talks hardly in smash. And also would you want this?
Pika Pika pikachu(translation) a dinner in battle is best served cold(sorry if the quote isnt right word by word)

k new subject

If there were a stage for every character what stage would be theirs. you may use pre existing stages from ssb64 ssbm ,as well as ssbb.
also alowed to use wtf stages like pitco chat and other stuff that comes to mind

enjoy =)
http://drag0nscythe.deviantart.com/art/Super-Smash-Bros-Fisticuffs-95625895
just click on the stage button. Those are my character stage choices.
 

pacmansays

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The only thing I want concerning stages is a Time Machine. This idea has been tossed around when brawl had not been released yet, I did not think this up someone else did. The Time Machine would be a portal to past stages. If you picked it you would be randomly taken to a stage in 64, Melee ,or Brawl. Maybe not all of the stages from the past would be accessible from the Time Machine, only the good ones. Saffron City, Mushroom Kingdom64, Fountain of Dreams et cetera.

Umm, I thought the melee stages under stage selection pretty much do the same thing :confused:
 

Pieman0920

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The time machine idea seems like something that would be pointless. If in SSB4 there are stages from Brawl, Melee, and 64, then just let them be open normally. If you want to play a past stage at random, just set it up so that the random button does that. Sure that would take more time than this hypothetical "time machine" but it doesn't really matter that much anyways.

@Pieman: Really, how significant is Petey Piranha?
Outside of Bowser/Boswer Jr, and possibly King Boo, he's pretty much the most reoccuring Mario boss, and had been appearing in loads of spinoff games and the like. Sure he doesn't really have the stuff to be a playable character, but he was still important enough to be a boss in Brawl.
 

Big-Cat

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That's what they're called? I have heard of that word somewhere... Oh yeah, Street Fighter 4.:bee:

lordvaati, from the looks of our avatars, we appear to be Mario fans.
Actually, Street Fighter IV has the rival battles. Soul Calibur has the Destined Battles. However, they're more or less the same concept.

Instead of this in versus mode, this should be Classic Mode like it is in the Arcade mode in other fighting games. As for who versus who, this is a good question. Some would have to be made up.

Here are some I have in mind:

Mario vs. Bowser
Luigi vs. Mario
Peach vs. Zelda
Wario vs. Mario or Captain Syrup
Donkey Kong vs. K. Rool
Samus vs. Ridley
Yoshi vs. Bowser Jr.
Pikachu vs. Pokemon Trainer
Jigglypuff vs. Kirby
Lucario vs. Mewtwo
Link vs. Ganondorf
Toon Link vs. Tingle
Lip vs. Yoshi
Marth vs. Link or Ike
Fox vs. Falco
Olimar vs. Diddy Kong
Snake vs. Samus
Sonic vs. Mario

At the very least, there needs to be one character talking in most of these.
 

lordvaati

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actually, I think Snake's would be Sonic, since he says he just doesnt like him for some reason.
 

BSP

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My ideas for improving online. Note: I don't think Nintendo will change friend codes to something better and Nintendo won't make online less anonymous, because of the casual players. >_>

When you're going random online, you can choose whether you want to smash worldwide/regional.

There are three possibilities:
-1vs1
-2vs2
-FFA

You choose your rules (stock/time, items, friendly fire, etc.). Only players with the same settings will be connected with you.

Now, you're searching other smasher/s. Before connecting, the location of the other players will be shown and the connection. (When Miis are playable, you can also see his Mii. You can only use one Mii for fighting online. When the Mii is disgusting and you don't want to fight him (Jesus Mii, etc.) you can also don't accept the game.)

5* = No lag, nearly no lag
4* = Little lag
3* = Medium lag, but still ok
2* = Bad lag
1* = Horrible lag - Unplayable
0* = No connection :laugh:

You can accepting the fight, or not accepting.

After the fight you can choose whether you want to play another fight, leaving, or you can exchange friend codes (both players must accept).

Rankings would be nice. That'd help that good players won't fight all time against bad ones. And the bad ones wouldn't be annoyed that there are 3stocked every match.

Online would be much better.....
This. Avoiding taunt matches, actually having a chance to re-fight good people. And best of all, NO ITEMS!
 

Clownbot

Smash Lord
Joined
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Messages
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actually, I think Snake's would be Sonic, since he says he just doesnt like him for some reason.
The reason it's Sonic & Mario is that they are (or were) pretty much rivals in the gaming industry.

The mention of that gave me an interesting game idea, though...

Snake & Sonic at the Olympic Games, anyone?:bee:
 

JBRPG

Smash Journeyman
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Messages
376
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Actually, Street Fighter IV has the rival battles. Soul Calibur has the Destined Battles. However, they're more or less the same concept.

Instead of this in versus mode, this should be Classic Mode like it is in the Arcade mode in other fighting games. As for who versus who, this is a good question. Some would have to be made up.

Here are some I have in mind:

Mario vs. Bowser
Luigi vs. Mario
Peach vs. Zelda
Wario vs. Mario or Captain Syrup
Donkey Kong vs. K. Rool
Samus vs. Ridley
Yoshi vs. Bowser Jr.
Pikachu vs. Pokemon Trainer
Jigglypuff vs. Kirby
Lucario vs. Mewtwo
Link vs. Ganondorf
Toon Link vs. Tingle
Lip vs. Yoshi
Marth vs. Link or Ike
Fox vs. Falco
Olimar vs. Diddy Kong
Snake vs. Samus
Sonic vs. Mario

At the very least, there needs to be one character talking in most of these.
Well... This may cost more time to give such extra features, but it would be a small extra feature in the next successor.
 

Big-Cat

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Well... This may cost more time to give such extra features, but it would be a small extra feature in the next successor.
I would much rather have this than another masterpiece collection or chronicle again.
 
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