[Official SSB4 Discussion] --- Nintendo announces 2 new Smash games!

[Big-Cat]

Regarding Lip's popularity, or anyone's for that matter, we need to consider if their game has been released outside of Japan or not. Basically, Lip, Sukapon, Takamaru, Sigurd, Claus, and more are subject only to Japanese popularity, not US, UK, or whatever popularity. This is because no one in these parts has had legit access to their games aside from importing. However, international characters like Krystal, Ridley, and K. Rool need to have their popularity from all over the world in count.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

I feel the need to remind everyone that, according to a 1-up.com article documented on Wikipedia's entry for Brawl, Sakurai was not planning to focus on Japan-only characters, but became more interested about that possibility after thinking about Fire Emblem's worldwide popularity after Melee's release.

Due to the circumstances of development and the fact that he apparently didn't get to put everything he wanted to include in Brawl, I believe there might still be a chance that he will add more Japan-only IP characters in SSB4 !

Let's hope for the best and see if that happens in 7-8 years...

 

[hippochinfat!!]

Well, when Brawl was under production, many people had "Lip for SSBB" pictures. It may not be the top character on their list, but it's on their list nonetheless. Before Brawl's roster leaked, I saw quite a few Lip movesets meandering around the forums, and there was a Lip support thread I think. Either way, three boards aren't the whole world. There are people who don't have internet (becoming more sparce but still) and there are Lip fans who support her, it's just that they don't go on forums. Geno isn't very known except for on forums which at that case his fans are rabbid.

If you look outside of forums just for Smash no one has a CLUE who Lip is.

Seriously, lots of unpopular characters randomly had support for Brawl.

Anyways, Sakurai mentioned he wanted to stay away from Japan only characters in Brawl and Japan only characters just aren't a good idea. Smash is a game for everyone, not just Japan.

 

[Big-Cat]

If you look outside of forums just for Smash no one has a CLUE who Lip is.

Seriously, lots of unpopular characters randomly had support for Brawl.

Anyways, Sakurai mentioned he wanted to stay away from Japan only characters in Brawl and Japan only characters just aren't a good idea. Smash is a game for everyone, not just Japan.

Even though it's a game for everyone, I still think putting in Japan-only characters is a good idea. Marth, Roy, and Lucas have shown that they can serve as tests to see if people like them. The same can happen to Lip who might finally stop getting cut in international versions of her games. Besides, the Japan-only characters tend to be quirky so they'll spice up the roster a bit.

 

[LUVTOY77-ROGUE WIREFRAME]

Probably, but Zelda is a more iconic series.

Well... same number of reps then? -brick'd- I freaking want Vaati, T_T

Wht do you mean by iconic? Like... visually recognized or something? or... what lol? (sorry for me being dense)

 

[MarthFanatique]

Even though it's a game for everyone, I still think putting in Japan-only characters is a good idea. Marth, Roy, and Lucas have shown that they can serve as tests to see if people like them. The same can happen to Lip who might finally stop getting cut in international versions of her games. Besides, the Japan-only characters tend to be quirky so they'll spice up the roster a bit.

Dead on. Every smash should have at least one Japan-only character. It adds culture (and shows us westerners what we're missing ) and uniqueness (well...kinda; Lucas is a semi-clone...that's not completely unique). Look at Marth, Roy, and Lucas' popularity in the U.S. It's huge. Many people used Marth and Roy cuz they were cool and new and foreign (and Marth was high tier; that certainly helped him quite a bit!). Lucas is one of my current secondaries; he cool, foreign and unique. But, I must agree a bit with you, Smashchu, regular video game players that aren't either forum goers or in Japan haven't heard of Lip. But Geno isn't that universally known either as other characters such as Mario, Link, Ratchet & Clank (maybe pushing it), or even Mega Man. He was in one game a long time ago. Newer gamers (and even older ones too) may not have heard of him. My friend and her two sisters are video game freaks, and they didn't hear of Geno 'til I told 'em about him.

@ LUVTOY77-ROGUEWIREFRAME
An icon is the character that you think of when there is a series. Like Mario is Nintendo's big icon. Then it's Link, then I believe it's Pika.

The PS2's icon is Ratchet or Sly Cooper isn't it?

XBox's is the Halo character I think.

 

[¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯]

^You mean Master Chief from Halo, and I'd say Sly from PS2.

 

[LUVTOY77-ROGUE WIREFRAME]

MarthFanatique: Ah, now I see what you mean. I have seen both Link and Pikachu around Nintendo stuff quite a bit so I'm not going to argue which is more iconic than the other.
I think that a series should just get the most amount of reps possible, within a reasonable number (as in Pokemon doesn't fill half the screen with characters--that's unreasonable). So I think that if, say, Donkey Kong has more potential character reps than, say, Legend of Zelda, then more power to DK! I'm sure some willl disagree, and Nintendo is more than likely not about to flood Smash with more characters from other games than Mario, but I'm just saying, don't waste character potential for one series because another more popular series doesn't have it. Don't let the more popular series set the standard, per say. I know Mario will anyways, but let's think of this in terms of the other series.

example one more time:
Legend of Zelda has potential for 3 characters
DK has potential for 4 characters
DK doesn't get tha extra character because Legend of Zelda doesn't have a 4th
^I don't want this to be the case! (note: just an example)

 

[OmegaXXII]

The PS2's icon is Ratchet or Sly Cooper isn't it?
.

actually it's Solid Snake and Cloud or Sora

also I don't think the Donkey Kong series needs 4 reps, IMO that's too many, sure it needs to have a villain rep such as K. Rool, but not necessaraly 4 reps because I believe the DK series isn't as big as say.. the Pokemon series

 

[darkserenade]

Is it just me, or are less people posting now?

 

[Veggi]

actually it's Solid Snake and Cloud or Sora

also I don't think the Donkey Kong series needs 4 reps, IMO that's too many, sure it needs to have a villain rep such as K. Rool, but not necessaraly 4 reps because I believe the DK series isn't as big as say.. the Pokemon series

I'd like for the DK series to have just one more rep being K. Rool and it would be a good representation of the series. For Mario and Poke'mon, I'd actually like for them to have two more characters in the next game. They still have more important characters to add and Mario/Poke'mon are very far ahead of other franchises.

Is it just me, or are less people posting now?

You caught me!

 

[kainsword]

Yeah, everyone's designing movesets for the Make a Move topic.

 

[darkserenade]

Yeah, everyone's designing movesets for the Make a Move topic.

I thought so. Not that it's there fault or anything.

 

[SkylerOcon]

Neutral B: "Box of Awesome" -- The box emits awesomeness. All opponents within 3 Smart Bomb radii receive 100% damage.

Side B: "Why Yes, I Am Top Tier, Fool" -- All opponents with at least 1% damage lose one stock.

Up B: "The Name's Box... Snake's Box..." -- The box returns to the center of the stage, and all opponents becomes paralyzed for the next 30 seconds.

Down B: "Boxness Overwhelming" -- Box becomes invincible for the rest of the game. He can then move around, and anyone he touches receives a blow similar to Marth's Critical Hit.

Final Smash: "All Your Stock Are Belong to Box" -- Box takes 5 stock from each of his opponents, and adds them to his own stock.

PS: These stock-based moves always work, because the first thing Box does when you unlock him (which is nearly impossible) is to destroy the Time and Coin options.

Still the best moveset posted in this thread.

Discuss.

 

[MarthFanatique]

That moveset...it makes me smile!

 

[Big-Cat]

Is it just me, or are less people posting now?

School's started that's why.

 

[OmegaXXII]

Still the best moveset posted in this thread.

Discuss.

about what? a Box that basically OWNS all? if you ask me, a God character like that kinda takes the fun out of playing

 

[super-7]

landmasters for all... j/k
uhm actually i was thinking
-improve online(keep fcs but have but have rooms instead of 2 minute time all the time)
-L- canceling should come back
- ABSOLUTELY NO RANDOM TRIPPING
-balance metaknight
-improve sonic, link
-more characters
-a little bit more hitstun but not too much!
thats all i really ask for

 

[flyinfilipino]

Where is ChronoBound and his essays?

*ChronoBound signal*

 

[SmashChu]

I feel the need to remind everyone that, according to a 1-up.com article documented on Wikipedia's entry for Brawl, Sakurai was not planning to focus on Japan-only characters, but became more interested about that possibility after thinking about Fire Emblem's worldwide popularity after Melee's release.

No, it's the other way around. He say the spark Marth and FRoy created but wished to stray from Japanese only characters as to give the game a more universal appeal.
[/QUOTE]

If you look outside of forums just for Smash no one has a CLUE who Lip is.

Seriously, lots of unpopular characters randomly had support for Brawl.

Anyways, Sakurai mentioned he wanted to stay away from Japan only characters in Brawl and Japan only characters just aren't a good idea. Smash is a game for everyone, not just Japan.

That pretty much described every character. There were lots of fanbases as well as constant BAWWWWWWWWWWWW when they were deconfirmed.

Even though it's a game for everyone, I still think putting in Japan-only characters is a good idea. .Marth, Roy, and Lucas have shown that they can serve as tests to see if people like them. The same can happen to Lip who might finally stop getting cut in international versions of her games Besides, the Japan-only characters tend to be quirky so they'll spice up the roster a bit.

Thing is, Lip has only been in two games: Panel De Pon and Nintendo Puzzle Collection. Beyond that, the franchise moved on without her. Additionally, Mother 3 is still not here despite Lucas in Brawl. It really doesn't open new markets, and even then, it would be doubtful for Lip to be the character in the face of characters who are more popular to Japanese smahers, like Takamaru or Sukapon.

 

[Big-Cat]

Thing is, Lip has only been in two games: Panel De Pon and Nintendo Puzzle Collection. Beyond that, the franchise moved on without her. Additionally, Mother 3 is still not here despite Lucas in Brawl. It really doesn't open new markets, and even then, it would be doubtful for Lip to be the character in the face of characters who are more popular to Japanese smahers, like Takamaru or Sukapon.

Marth has only been in two Fire Emblem game(minus the DS remake), and both are the stars of the first game in their series. So, I don't think Lip would have that issue much.

To me, MOTHER 3 hasn't come here because Nintendo is too lazy to release Earthbound (which is supposed to be the proof people want MOTHER 3). Whenever that happens, MOTHER 3 may be in the near future.

Anyway, adding Japanese characters CAN open new markets *coughmarthcough*. I'm not sure if Sukapon or Takamaru are more popular than Lip there so I'm not going to touch that other that Lip may not be their most wanted, but is wanted nonetheless.

 

[SmashChu]

Marth has only been in two Fire Emblem game(minus the DS remake), and both are the stars of the first game in their series. So, I don't think Lip would have that issue much.

Yeah, becuase
1)Marth was the most popular character from his franchise (which was big in Japan)
2)This DS remake is the second remake of his game. You can see that people like it
3)Panel De Pon has since moved on. There is more Pokemon then Lip attached to it.

To me, MOTHER 3 hasn't come here because Nintendo is too lazy to release Earthbound (which is supposed to be the proof people want MOTHER 3). Whenever that happens, MOTHER 3 may be in the near future.

You do understand that it's 2008 and the GBA has been dead for a while. The reason it has yet to come over here is just that: the GBA is dead. A lot of times, gvames will be canned or not released in certain territories due to the system being dead by the time it got there. Mother released about April-May of 09. The DS had long been out ansd the game would have been either a late 06/early 07 game, much to late to release in the west. They COULD make a DS port, but that would be more work for the same amount of sales.

Anyway, adding Japanese characters CAN open new markets *coughmarthcough*. I'm not sure if Sukapon or Takamaru are more popular than Lip there so I'm not going to touch that other that Lip may not be their most wanted, but is wanted nonetheless.

I want to talk about that line in bold.

Lip can open up new markets? Do you know anything about the character? Panel De Pon, Lip's game, was released in the US as Tetris Attack. Since then, the franchise has used Pokemon as well as a generic techno setting. Lip is no where to be seen. If you'd know about Lip then you'd know this. So tell me, HOW THE HECK IS SHE GOING TO OPEN UP NEW MARKETS!?

Also, Takamaru and Sakupon are more popular, both there and here actually. The two characters are popular with Japanese Smash fans and Sakurai tried to get him in Melee. The characters are also liked by die hard Nintendo fans around. Lip, like many characters, has only a small fanbase.

 

[SkylerOcon]

about what? a Box that basically OWNS all? if you ask me, a God character like that kinda takes the fun out of playing

Not just any box -- SNAKE's box.

 

[Greenstreet]

lol. it is a pretty sturdy box. probly non recyclable guys

 

[smashbot226]

lol. it is a pretty sturdy box. probly non recyclable guys

It doesn't need recycling.

It just takes out the trash.

 

[oceanic--ice]

I'd like for the DK series to have just one more rep being K. Rool and it would be a good representation of the series. For Mario and Poke'mon, I'd actually like for them to have two more characters in the next game. They still have more important characters to add and Mario/Poke'mon are very far ahead of other franchises.



You caught me!

the mario series are indeed much bigger than the rest but still the most important every-game characters are in... popular series dont necessarily means many characters (with the exception of pokemon ) ...there sure are some characters that are in every mario kart but that because its a mario only game so its possible to add all characters that appear until that time...for brawl though there arent many options... i could think of mini-bowser and waluigi... secondly if these are the only ones popular enough to be added only one of these 2 will be because they will surely want to add another mario rep for SSB5 so they wouldnt add them both thus reducing their own options for the future...also waluigi is a big prob for where he should be put... he has only appeared in mario series and not wario only series but then again waluigi is far more related to wario than mario so where does he belong? also mini bowser had a smaller role in super mario galaxy than in super mario sunshine and this reduces his chances even further....now its not that accurate to say about possible characters for SSB5 because there is still a big gap seperating us from it and many games will be released untill then... its only safe to talk about future improvements to various aspects of the game like Internet.. and i dont just mean to make it faster and repair it....there are many more for it...for example the 100% goal of the game is to get all trophies...thats why they are rewarded from every aspect alleady...but we gather many of them many times....they should make a trphy trade option for WFC to change the trophies u got more than once for new ones...and many more

 

[Ilex]

The MYM thread is a mess right now so I'll post a moveset here.

TOAD

Stats
Power: 7/10
Weight: 1/10
Speed: 8/10
Recovery: 5/10
Range: 4/10​

Neutral : Toad Spore. It works exactly like it did with Peach, only Toad is now solo!
UpB: Magical flying carpet. Hang with me here and let me explain. This is taken from Super Mario Bros 2 where Toad could hop on a carpet and it would transport him in the air. Please watch 1:05-1:12. This move would give similar range as DK's spin. He wouldn't hold the...thing on his head and the hitbox is on the carpet. (~12%)
SideB: Fire Meteor. This move originates as Toad's skillshot in Mario Strikers Charged. What he does is kick a flaming soccer ball as a projectile (Not unlike what every character can do in Brawl) and it may be aimed in a similar way to Egg Toss. Oh, and he can charge it.
After the soccer ball has been kicked it lays on the field and vanishes after about 10 seconds if not used. Anyone may kick a soccer ball lying on the field but only Toad can aim it and only Toad's kicks will produce the flaming effect. Toad may have 2 on the field at a time. (8% uncharged, 16% charged, 5% if from another character ).
DownB: Sand haul. In SMB2 Toad can dig rapidly fast and lifts up huge amounts of earth. To see this please go to the aforementioned video and watch 3:53-4:00.
In SSB4 Toad heaves up an armload of sand and throws it above his head. The dirt then falls on all sides of him, damaging those who get too close. This moves has large startup lag but makes up for it in its rather large hitbox. (14%)

Final Smash: Toad stampede. Toad pulls out a referee's whistle and blows loudly. Suddenly, Toads starts spawning where he is standing and charge in the direction he is facing. The mushroom people will just run across the platform and once they reach the ledge, they'll spill off to their death or tumble onto another platform where they will continue to charge in the same direction.
This move doesn't damage opponents but rather pushes them along with the riot of Toads at about half the speed of Jungle Japes' current. Once the opponent falls of the ledge they're pretty much dragged to their doom from the mass of Toads falling on them. This move lasts for about 15 seconds.

 

[darkserenade]

It was a good moveset, but if you plan to put that in MYM, you need more detail on other stuff, which I'm sure you already knew.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

You do understand that it's 2008 and the GBA has been dead for a while. The reason it has yet to come over here is just that: the GBA is dead. A lot of times, gvames will be canned or not released in certain territories due to the system being dead by the time it got there. Mother released about April-May of 09. The DS had long been out ansd the game would have been either a late 06/early 07 game, much to late to release in the west. They COULD make a DS port, but that would be more work for the same amount of sales.

Coincidentally, I heard that a Mother compilation will be released on the DS in Japan soon. Since the current trend is porting old games on the DS(Final Fantasy IV and Dragon Quest IV-VI, anyone?), there might be a slim chance for Mother 3(and Mother 1, if we're lucky) to finally be released here, that is IF Nintendo gets around to putting Earthbound on the Virtual console. If it gets good reception, the fanbase will finally be pleased.

 

[hippochinfat!!]

That won't happen.

I mean Mother fans even know that NOA hates Mother yet they still think it has a chance of coming out?

Anyways, someone should make an Ocelot moveset. He would the most badass character ever. Screw that no gun rule.

 

[SmashChu]

Coincidentally, I heard that a Mother compilation will be released on the DS in Japan soon. Since the current trend is porting old games on the DS(Final Fantasy IV and Dragon Quest IV-VI, anyone?), there might be a slim chance for Mother 3(and Mother 1, if we're lucky) to finally be released here, that is IF Nintendo gets around to putting Earthbound on the Virtual console. If it gets good reception, the fanbase will finally be pleased.

That rumor has been floating around forever. Truth is, there was a compilation of Mother 1 and 2 in japan already so they probably aren't putting the games on the DS any time soon.

 

[Vect0r]

I just hope King K Rool is in it. And Earthworm Jim... that would be so awesome

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

I just hope King K Rool is in it. And Earthworm Jim... that would be so awesome

I'm hoping for both of these as well. King K. Rool has plenty of potential for his costumes and moveset Also, if Jim DOES make it in the next game, I'm hoping for Dan Castellaneta to reprise his role. Jim has the possibility of having a unique moveset, considering the quirky nature of his games.

 

[dantroid225]

Everyone seems to be talking about all the new characters that they want to see in brawl... but what about also improving the ones that already are there? How bout: instead of just being able to change a characters "costume", doing so would also change their SPECIAL moveset and not so much a "A" attacks? For example: Mario, Racoon Mario, Cape Mario, Baby Mario or green Link w/ a normal moveset, blue link w/ deku nuts, goron hammer, and bombchus, and red link w/ ball&chain, mirror sheild etc...

other ideas...
Kirby: Different power-ups like sword kirby, fire kirby...
Fox, Falco, Wolf: different weapons like rocket launcher, mines, blasters
Samus: Different power-ups like wave beam, Ice beam, boost-attack, flamethrower
Ness + Lucas: Different Psi Powers
Wario: Different attacks from wario-ware mini games?
teh pokemanz: different poke-moves!
G&W: More moves from various G&W games
MK & Snake: Broken legs so they rnt as good

This might not work 4 some characters, but idk... im thinkin: POTENTIAL!

 

[Agi]

^ welcome to smashboards, Dantoid!

The problem that I see when giving different colors of characters different movesets is what would happen if two people who main that "color" have to fight eachother in a tourney... I mean, playing with a different color is difficult as it is (for me), but fighting with an alternate moveset at top level competition, especially if you arent familiar with that set, would make the match nigh impossible to win. And how would you decide who gets to use that "color"? Rock paper scissors?

Your other Ideas, however, were good. But how would you get Snake and Metaknight to consent to having their legs broken?

 

[LUVTOY77-ROGUE WIREFRAME]

Dantroid, I'm likin' ur ideas, but Agidius brouth up a good point. It would be awesome to see those put in the game effectively though (without cloning, I might add).

And hmmm I think I've mentioned this a while back:

Instead of Lucario getting stronger, make him speedier, like in the pokemon world.
His smashes seem to take a while to charge up, and are kinda-sorta slow to start with--so why not, as he gets damaged more and more, let him speed up his smash animations, and basically everything?

Note: This was before I actually started playing as Lucario that I got this idea. I now see how handy his upped strength is, and I've learned to deal with his slow-ish speed. I'm just bringing the thought up--now I'm fine the way Lucario is :]

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

@Dantroid225: Your idea for a new gameplay mechanic sounds horrible. The last thing we need are characters that can swap their moveset by switching their costumes. Interesting and innovative, perhaps, but not good. Costumes should only be used for aesthetic purposes in this series.

Also, broken legs for MK & Snake!? You're joking, right?

 

[motherfan]

That won't happen.

I mean Mother fans even know that NOA hates Mother yet they still think it has a chance of coming out?

Anyways, someone should make an Ocelot moveset. He would the most badass character ever. Screw that no gun rule.

They hate mother fans yet they submit EarthBound on the VC to get an ESRB rating?

 

[Tedius Zanarukando]

Super Smash Bros. Brawl only got 35 characters due to time constraints. Sakurai did not actually say how many new characters he would put in for SSB4. I do not believe MarthFanatique on this. Random Fire Emblem characters are possibility, in the form of downloadable content. The most viable random (non-Lord) Fire Emblem characters include Sheeda, Oguma, Nabarl, Ayra, and Sothe. However, I may or may not expect either one at this time. I am expecting Lyndis, Isaac, and Little Mac. Marth and his sword will be redesigned after the recently released Fire Emblem: Shin Ankoku Ryu to Hikari no Ken. Fire Emblem is a financially emerging game franchise, so you may expect more than 3 representatives in SSB4, giving that Lyn as an Assist Trophy in Brawl counts to some extent. It may be financially small at the time of Brawl's release, but it has the potential to catch up with other Nintendo franchises by the time of SSB4. There will probably be only one new Fire Emblem Lord created between Brawl and SSB4. The next original Fire Emblem game may be created near the time of SSB4 and possibly on the same platform. I can (almost) assure you that Fire Emblem will sell better during the Brawl era (between SSBB and SSB4) than it did during the Melee era. Therefore, you cannot really predict how much Fire Emblem will be represented in SSB4. Brawl has also influenced sales of Fire Emblem: Radiant Dawn.

Sakurai also stated that adding only a few newcomers will not justify making a new Smash Bros. game. He is a big fan of Fire Emblem. SSB4 will feature voice chat, downloadable content, and other online features. You will have the option to turn voice chat on or off. Wii points may be charged for downloadable content (300 for characters, 500 for stages, 200 for Event Matches, Assist Trophies, and Pokéball Pokémon; and 100 for items, trophies, and music tracks.).

 

[darkserenade]

Tedius, as much as I love FE, it won't ever get more than 3, unfortunately. Also, this is the second time you acted as if you know what everything about SSB4 will be like. While those are general assumptions that have been made numerous times, I can shoot them all down easy.
the voice chat-- someone black-mails you through this. Nintendo does NOT like getting sued.
downloadable content--Props to Chief for making this point, those who battle online with them and the opponent did not download them can take very long. Also, this can seriously screw a tier list, as some people hosting might not have 'em.
online features--I can't judge this 'cause you're not specific.