OFFICIAL Sonic rFAQ! New to Sonic? Have a quick question? Ask it here!

[Tesh]

Spindash beats pretty much everything Samus shoots at you besides Zair and fully charged shot (and from a high angle, spindash can still win apparently).

Getting off of platforms with Sonic.... Platform dropping OoS is a tough technique to master, especially when you factor in hitlag and shield stun. Sometimes the easiest and safest option is to just jump OoS or Spring OoS, but until you actually reach level ground to below your opponent, you are just delaying the problem.

 

[XLR8TION]

For starters, BF isn't really a sonic type stage. As for the ASC-PDT, I think you have to do it at the same time, idk to be honest. I can do it but the timing is weird. As for playing on battlefield, me I just ASC off the side platforms and poke sheilds with usmashes/utilts/fairs while opponent is on platform really. Idk how to play against DK or ness on BF, I dont go there since it's not good stage for sonic vs DK or ness lol. Maybe someone else here can help you with that. And as for the samus/sonic mu, all I do really is power sheild missles and lazers and use the hump of sonic's side b to get passed them. I try not to spindash/ASC a lot because samus will just whif out a up b and it's gay. Once I get passed the plethora of zairs, its alittle easier to fight samus for me. Um I can't say much because idk mu's like that unless it's the sonic ditto....im decent at that. Im sure some1 else here can help on that but I would advise you to talk to this samus player NOID, He's a really good samus who plays the sonic mu the best I feel and he knows how to play mu well in general. His username here is No-Idea I think.


Edit: welp tesh got you covered.

 

[Tesh]

BF isn't a bad Sonic stage imo, but definitely not good vs Samus. Her Up B OoS to the top platform is really good. Not as safe as Marth or MK, but she doesn't really even have to hit you to avoid immediate punishment for it.

 

[XLR8TION]

True, but hes talking about Bf vs DK and ness tesh lol.

 

[Unsound_Shinobi]

I can get some videos up of my recent MUs vs DK, Ness, and Samus later tonight, and idk, I try to spin dash through the shots, but I get knocked out of it about half the time, I guess I don't quite have the timing for it down, it's just when the spin dash jumps at the start right? My biggest issue with Samus is getting past the tilted down forward tilt that comes out over and over again, with DK it's the forward tilt up/back air approaches I have a hard time with, and with ness it's PK fire and thunder.

 

[XLR8TION]

Yea it's when the spindash jumps, thats where the invincibility frame are at. Me I just sheild samus ftilt and use dash attack.

Ness's PK fire on the ground.. I just power sheild it then punish accordingly. But ness's air PK fire, I just sheild it really..but a good ness can buffer a ariel(most of the time nair and or fair), so I just expect it then punish with uair.

Ness's PK thunder..im guessing your talking about PK thunder 2, the one used to recover. Welp I just grab the ledge then punish if he makes it back on stage, I don't try to go after him. It ends up bad for me.

 

[Unsound_Shinobi]

For the PK thunder, the issue is when I get knocked off stage, or into the air, my friend is really good at circling it around me so air dodging doesn't work, if I ASC or ASD he can usually still catch me with it, or get another one off before I can touch the ground.

 

[XLR8TION]

In that case dont go for asc or asd(plz no asd). Just spring. But I guess he's reading your airdodges, gotta stay calm.

 

[Unsound_Shinobi]

But if I spring chances are he'd just throw another PKT up at me right? Staying calm is probably really good advice, I tend to get super excited as I go through.

 

[FRiSKruns]

You shouldn't be going aerial versus Ness much, if at all anyway.
ASC has no range whatsoever, and has a bit of start up, Ness' fair outranges everything we have in the air, his nair outranges most of our aerials and has less startup and cooldown.
Instead, I'd recommend just mixing up the timing of your approaches from the ground and trying to bait him into whiffing a move and punishing its cooldown.

 

[B.A.M.]

anyone really good at dair slow falling ( yes i know its a misnomer)? I was looking over it again and I was thinking it would be incredibly useful vs ppl attempting to catch our quick landing with dsmashes or DAs. The fact you can bair,uair, or nair afterwards changes a ton of things. ESPECIALLY bair. That would make spring>dairing even more usable.

 

[Kinzer]

You shouldn't be going aerial versus Ness much, if at all anyway.

The trick here is to get him to use his aerial attacks and punish the cooldown or do it out of shield.

I've found that works well.

 

[Unsound_Shinobi]

I never said anything about going aerial against Ness though, the only time I go aerial against him is on about the 12th or 13th up throw of the match for a surprise up a kill at like 110% or so, it works sometimes.

 

[XLR8TION]

The trick here is to get him to use his aerial attacks and punish the cooldown or do it out of shield.

I've found that works well.

most of the time which is ness's dair.

 

[kid craft 24/sonic master]

I like to stay behind ness as much as possible simply to avoid getting hit by Fair. dealing with pk fire i try to stay just out of it's range where i can push the cooldown. We also have a grab release CG on ness so it's possible to get an easy gimp on them if there not careful. Which this would for me be grab release till the ledge let them break out and then i fair over the stage to cut there second jump and then jump into the pk thunder ball to cancel it out. If they anticipate that i usually just go and grab the ledge and punish there recovery attempts. But like others have been saying fighting ness in the air isn't something we should be doing.

 

[-LzR-]

Just how do you play this character? Whenever I try to play Sonic it feels like I have outplay my opponents a lot to even have a chance at all. When my opponent ****s up, I try to punish them with Sonics crappy grab, uthrow them for some damage and then follow up with something. Then if they manage to land one smash I am losing again. Wtf o_o

Oh and what's the point of the Spindashes? I know they are important but whenever I try to use them I get punished way to often to make them worth it at all.

 

[Kinzer]

Just how do you play this character? Whenever I try to play Sonic it feels like I have outplay my opponents a lot to even have a chance at all. When my opponent ****s up, I try to punish them with Sonics crappy grab, uthrow them for some damage and then follow up with something. Then if they manage to land one smash I am losing again. Wtf o_o

Oh and what's the point of the Spindashes? I know they are important but whenever I try to use them I get punished way to often to make them worth it at all.

I figure I have time before the next class. That of which I am not enrolled in but the professor is awesome enough to let me chill in it anyway.

Hi there! You must be new to Sonic! What you described in the first inquiry is exactly the kind of thing you can expect when you play this character. You will have to work a couple times harder over your opponent to claim victory. The slightest mistake on your end can certainly led to a disastrous result, while a mistake from your opponent is usually punished with more damage from your end until something kills at such a high percent that it is unavoidable to die from it.

It probably helps to have a little bit of rabid fanboyism. Even then, it gets discouraging.

As for Spin Dashes, those are suppose to be punish options. Sonic's most damaging and readily available, at that. Note that most damaging =/= most powerful. If you want the latter, look towards forward smash; which sacrifices speed and utility for power. Using it, like any other technique in this game, will get predictable. Your opponent is likely to catch on and play around that strategy. Try mixing it up! You may very well see some success.

Hope this helps.

 

[-LzR-]

I am not a fanboy at all, I don't care at all about Sonic games or anything, but his playstyle interests me a lot. So Approaching with spindashes was wrong afterall... How would I use them for punishing then? OoS or bait stuff? This character is so hard...

 

[XLR8TION]

What you could do just to see what they would do is spincharge above their sheild(down b>move up on control stick) just to see what they would do...well thats me. Im just gonna leave this to kinzer, he's smarter than I am at this character.

 

[Kinzer]

What you could do just to see what they would do is spincharge above their sheild(down b>move ove on control stick) just to see what they would do...well thats me. Im just gonna leave this to kinzer, he's smarter than I am at this character.

The whole point of answering questions is so that I don't have to be the go-to guy for all this.

I'm a fallible source anyway, I'm sure there are other people who can give different, perhaps better, answers.

*Ahem.*

In any case.

I am not a fanboy at all, I don't care at all about Sonic games or anything, but his playstyle interests me a lot. So Approaching with spindashes was wrong afterall... How would I use them for punishing then? OoS or bait stuff? This character is so hard...

I'm sorry if I implied some of the responses towards you. I was speaking in general, as in it makes things easier (or harder) if you are "this or that."

In any case, the idea here is to condition your opponents. See what they do in certain circumstances, and take advantage of their pattern. Everyone has one, you just have to find them. Some are easier than others...

With that said, nobody plays perfectly. When you play as or against Sonic, the flow of the match is more likely than not going to force you to use spin attacks, among other things, outside of maximum efficiency. Let me stress that there isn't too much of a problem with this. Sometimes, it's good to get the opponent to react in a particular way so that you can mix it up with something different. It doesn't necessarily have to be a better option, but that's just the preference.

Take this for example: You do Aerial Spin Charge towards your opponent. You have the habit of going through all the way and putting a lot of shield pressure. Your opponent doesn't take any damage, but their shield doesn't get low enough that you can poke at it on or from the comeback reliably. Notice that they always happen to shield it. Pretend that counter attack or preemptive strikes don't exist for a second and realize that you have your opponent right where you want them: constantly shielding. Knowing that, you can shield-cancel your ASC and go into a grab.

Eh? Eh~?

 

[B_AWAL]

This thread has always been useful

 

[-LzR-]

Yeah well, most of the time it doesn't matter what I do with the spindashes, if I happen to get too close they just throw out a move and then I lose. When I play Sonic it seems like he is the worst character in the game. And I have practiced a lot and tried to become better, but I cannot even beat Finlands worse players with him, who I can easily body with my Ganondorf... T_T

 

[XLR8TION]

Sonic isnt the worst character, but hes not a good charcter as well. What makes sonic look good is the player behind the controller. Also getting close with sonic is pretty hard due to the fact he can't approach worth ****. So you have to force your way in with mindgames, spin cancels, etc.

 

[XLR8TION]

Sonic isnt the worst character, but hes not a good charcter as well. What makes sonic look good is the player behind the controller. Also getting close with sonic is pretty hard due to the fact he can't approach worth ****. So you have to force your way in with mindgames, spin cancels, etc.

 

[XLR8TION]

Sonic isnt the worst character, but hes not a good charcter as well. What makes sonic look good is the player behind the controller. Also getting close with sonic is pretty hard due to the fact he can't approach worth ****. So you have to force your way in with mindgames, spin cancels, etc.

 

[Unsound_Shinobi]

Tips for Zelda/Sonic matchup? I have a hard time getting in close to fight her, I always get knocked away.

 

[Kinzer]

Tips for Zelda/Sonic matchup? I have a hard time getting in close to fight her, I always get knocked away.

Play patiently.

You can't attack her directly unless you have Godlike timing and manage to punish the cooldown lag before the next attack. In this case, you have to have your shield forward and punish out of it.

Now of course, you'll have to not let go of the shield early because the attack is elongated if it hits something, but you should be fine once you learn the timing.

Alternatively: you can predict how your opponent will move and strike at angles they can't cover. Zelda's attacks may cover some ground here or there, but they don't put a hitbox all-around here... unless it's Nayru's Love, Din's Fire, and Farore's Wind; but there's a reason those are poor defense options. I'll leave you to figure out why.

Force her to approach when you have the lead too. It's much easier to play against Zelda when she is the one having to make the initiative.

 

[XLR8TION]

holy ****...I did not mean to triple post. fml>.>

 

[Unsound_Shinobi]

Play patiently.

You can't attack her directly unless you have Godlike timing and manage to punish the cooldown lag before the next attack. In this case, you have to have your shield forward and punish out of it.

Now of course, you'll have to not let go of the shield early because the attack is elongated if it hits something, but you should be fine once you learn the timing.

Alternatively: you can predict how your opponent will move and strike at angles they can't cover. Zelda's attacks may cover some ground here or there, but they don't put a hitbox all-around here... unless it's Nayru's Love, Din's Fire, and Farore's Wind; but there's a reason those are poor defense options. I'll leave you to figure out why.

Force her to approach when you have the lead too. It's much easier to play against Zelda when she is the one having to make the initiative.

Okay Thank you, I used to main Zelda, but when I did I wasn't very good at the game even compared to where I am now, I know Din's Fire is really weak when it's close to Zelda, plus it has easily punishable lag after it, Farore's Wind is hard to hit with, and has a fairly small hit box, plus it's easily punishable, but I don't know why Nayru's love would be bad, it was, and is when I play her still, one of my favorite defensive options after I get my opponent about about 30%.

So basically just try and get in at weird low angles while she's in the air? and punish when I get the chance on ground? I have a hard time with bait then punish due to how fast she recovers from everything, and I get killed pretty early, any advice on avoiding the big kills like up air, side air, f-tilt? I can generally avoid both up tilt and up smash, and fmash is pretty predictable, but I have a hard time with the rest.

 

[B_AWAL]

When playing Zelda its like your dancing the whole time. Ed! Taught me the hard way. Dodge projectiles but when they send em at you make sure you either are going to attack or have enough space between you 2 after u dodge or block.

Sheik is quick but of course your faster so don't panic with a rolls.

Kinzer said everything else. Most Sonics on this thread have great advice 2 read anyways.

 

[P.I.E.]

Yeah well, most of the time it doesn't matter what I do with the spindashes, if I happen to get too close they just throw out a move and then I lose. When I play Sonic it seems like he is the worst character in the game. And I have practiced a lot and tried to become better, but I cannot even beat Finlands worse players with him, who I can easily body with my Ganondorf... T_T

I Have no place being here, but dont ever doubt your character. play hard. practice hard. dont complain about a problem until you've tried your best to fix it. its never the character, as your video archive shows time and time again. just work on your style and MU knowledge. hope i helped.

 

[Pheonix]

So I just got rocked by MrConCon the Luigi. I usually have comfortable wins against him but he went totally campy on me.

Fireball'd when I was at a distance.

Weegee nado'd when I was close.

Wtf do I do?

 

[Tesh]

Nado is pretty punishable if you just block it and follow him. I'm not sure what beats it as I've only ever played Luigi online, but if you just chase it, you can get him after the hitbox, before the IASA. Its sort of like MK's tornado but less tricky since he can weave back and forth so much. You have a good 30+ frames to get him.

Fireball is safe as max range, so just shield it and get closer.

 

[da K.I.D.]

block and punish

 

[FRiSKruns]

So I just got rocked by MrConCon the Luigi. I usually have comfortable wins against him but he went totally campy on me.

Fireball'd when I was at a distance.

Weegee nado'd when I was close.

Wtf do I do?

I got to play YoshQ in a MM and from what I could tell, you can use bair, fair, or uair to beat nado if spaced well and in the right position, but I wouldn't reccommend either of those options since the timing is so tight and it's only possible if he mispaces or you're zoning him.

Best choice would probably be to powershield grab it, or powershield then tilt it depending on postioning and timing.

Tesh's idea is also pretty viable, just regular shield it then punish afterwards, be mindful that it's pretty fast so you might only be able to punish it with a dash attack, if he spaces well.

Another thing you could do to avoid all of this is to just take the lead, early on and camp of course, Luigi doesn't seem to have much in his arsenal that he can use to approach since his fireball sucks at covering his approaches and his overall range is poor.

It may not be a fun strategy, but it's definitely an effective one.

 

[MeekSpeedy]

So I just got rocked by MrConCon the Luigi. I usually have comfortable wins against him but he went totally campy on me.

Fireball'd when I was at a distance.

Weegee nado'd when I was close.

Wtf do I do?

bair his **** out

or do what I do, if MK is legal, go MK

 

[Tesh]

Luigi is one of those characters that you can really just spinshot over many many times.

I faced Kirby for the first time this weekend and it seems like he is the same. Except Kirby you can run under him when he commits to too much height. Feels pretty badass to just run under them!!!!

 

[Life]

I noticed I was doing well for the first time this weekend when I spent time just running circles around people in between actual approaches. Works on anyone that isn't reasonably fast provided you get around any projectiles (it's the only way I could even hit TechChase's D3 for anything meaningful, and it definitely made the difference in a lot of the matches I did win).

Unrelated question: is there any use for grounded spincharge out of a run? I was playing with it for a while but unless it's a long stage like FD it doesn't seem like there's enough room to use it to fake out people.

 

[TheMewtwoMaster]

Help, I need to beat Pit!

Well, here's the thing. I always fight my brother, a Pit main, and I REALLY want to beat him. I usually beat him half the time. I'm going into a tournament with him, and I want to know I can beat him if I have to. Any tips for a Pit matchup (or any character for that matter)?

(And yes, i'm Sonic)

 

[TheAwesomefroggy]

Quick question: have these two uses for Side-B been found yet (i'm pretty sure they have)

1.) in doubles, have your partner crouch and use the jump at the start of it to attack and not hit your parther

2.) you know how Sonic goes back when charging the spin dash? maybe you can use it if you, for example, read a down tilt?