OFFICIAL Sonic rFAQ! New to Sonic? Have a quick question? Ask it here!

[The Halloween Captain]

I didn't see anything that looked more like Q&A, so I'll post my question here:

What are the properties of homing attack? I never quite understood how that move worked.

 

[SonicX580]

I didn't see anything that looked more like Q&A, so I'll post my question here:

What are the properties of homing attack? I never quite understood how that move worked.

Well from my experience HA is kinda of a risky move people can take advantage of it but sometimes you can as recovery also when you're opponent is off guard you can use that for mix-up or mindgames so anyone else has a diffrent opnion?

 

[Jim Morrison]

It's good out of SDR > SDJ > HA, not much else. It's too risky to use near the edge, and just fails if used out of random, especially when it doesn't bounce of the ground, making you super-lag-land

 

[The Halloween Captain]

What I mean is, What are the exact qualities of the homing attack? I know general stuff, but I'm curious about the details. Is there a thread on this?

 

[Jim Morrison]

No, make one.

 

[SonicX580]

What do you mean by that exact qualities? aside from the information displayed isn't that enough?

 

[Tenki]

There are a few explanation videos on youtube from a bunch of people. Sonic Orochi did the most notable testing on it.

It has less range coverage behind it, and more range in front.

It generally tries to hit above/"behind" (the further side) your opponent.

So if your opponent is moving towards you from above, HA will hit in front of them. If your opponent is moving away from you, HA will try to catch up with them and hit them in the back, if they're slow enough.

 

[infomon]

So like... furthest corner of the nearest enemy's hurtbox?

 

[Tenki]

kind of but not really. More like towards the upper-further part of it.

It would kind of explain the weird 'homing repellant' wall that Snake/ZSS/Falcon/Pit seem to have. If HA flies in at too low of an angle, it will try to curve but ends up either moving horizontally behind/away, so you end up in landing lag.

 

[Jim Morrison]

FFS! anyone I WANNA TEST MY JIGGLY BRAWL ME

 

[darkNES386]

Basic HA lock-on/success concepts:
-Facing opponent has slightly larger attack range then starting the HA with your back to your opponent.
-I'm pretty sure it is dependent on where the homing attack launches from, not where it starts (in other words canceling can make or break whether or not it "locks-on" to your opponent's current position)
-The move does not home on the center of your opponent's body. If you drew a rectangle around your opponent the attack always tries to pass through a specific corner depending on your location (thus you sometimes are on a path to hit and other times you are not)
-If an opponent is in invincibility frames from their own moves, spot dodging, air dodging, rolling or rolling up from an edge as the HA attempts to lock-on will result in a complete miss.
-Opponents moving towards you: attack from below.
-Opponent moving away from you: attack from above. This explains why snake is so easy to hit and why a character as slow and sluggish as Ike when below the stage is next to impossible to hit with a HA. You can attempt to jump past your opponent and initiate one of these if they are really low. You may be fortunate enough to force a stage spike. Be careful though. This move can get you into trouble.
-The more vertically you are aligned with your opponent, the more likely you will connect.
-The more horizontal distance between you and your opponent you will likely miss. Miss here = locking on... but zipping past your opponent. This is why you need to be careful if you use this move when recovering. You will find yourself flying just over your opponent and probably landing with lag right behind them, begging to be punished by your careless recovery.

I tried to make a chart for this move but it's so difficult to make an accurate one, plus it's better to understand how it behaves when your opponent is moving (as described above).

*GREEN=Best Chance
*YELLOW=Very situational see above tips
*RED=Won't lock-on at all

I'm hurt that no one mentioned any of this... at least let me know if you think it's wrong or something.

If you want more details then this then we need to come up with a better way to measure distance or whatnot.

 

[SonicX580]

Hope that answers you're question Gf2tw.

 

[infomon]

nes I was trying to remember where that epic write-up was.... srry I didn't think to look in the guide lol, I fail at stickies

 

[darkNES386]

nes I was trying to remember where that epic write-up was.... srry I didn't think to look in the guide lol, I fail at stickies

Right now... let's come up with anything else about it that can be more relevant.

How can we discuss distance? What would we make it relative to? Character size? What other stuff is described in a similar fashion? Do we use a stage like final D and do increments?

 

[Tenki]

best way is probably custom stage blocks.

With an optional 'relative to FD' comparison

 

[Jim Morrison]

Hope that answers you're question Gf2tw.

What question...

 

[darkNES386]

Yeah, that's how I determined everything.

edit: He meant Halloween Captain.. whatever not you I think.

Well not really... but we can map out shaded regions on various maps like what they did for Ivysaur's tether grab. That still isn't as hard as Sonic's home attack. I like the idea of sticking with my red/yellow/green ... I can try and scale it to a specific stage though.

I'm a terrible reader

 

[Tenki]

Well not really... but we can map out shaded regions on various maps like what they did for Ivysaur's tether grab.

that would be so awesome. I remember when I was new/checking out prospective mains, I saw Ivy's tether reach and wondered if there was stuff like that for other characters.

Just keep in mind the height your HA is when you release though. It rises.

 

[SonicX580]

What question...

My bad Gf2tw that was meant for Haloween Captain...

 

[The Halloween Captain]

I heard some interesting disagreements on the usefulness of homing attack elsewhere, so I was curious if the general "uselessness" was a characteristic of not completely understanding the attack or if it was caused by the attack simply being punishable and slow.

So I'm not sure if this answers my question, but thanks for the info!

Next question: Is homing attack underused and misunderstood or well understood and underused because it is bad?

 

[Jim Morrison]

HA is nowhere close to being fully understood. However, I don't see the potential in it to intergrate it into my game and actually make me better. It might be some situational option to use it, but I am sure there are better things than 10% damage (IIRC). I'm sure it's misunderstood and underused, but I won't look into it further.

 

[Tenki]

Next question: Is homing attack underused and misunderstood or well understood and underused because it is bad?

It's sort of both. Newer Sonics might not use it because they don't understand which way it'll go, or how to set it up so it hits the opponent. More experienced Sonics don't use it because they know how punishable it is.

well, if it gets to the point that it's predictable when he'll use it, that's overusing it.

even though it's fast, HA is absolutely 'uncancellable', so it's Sonic's most committed attack. For most of Sonic's approaches and stuff, if your opponent can predict it coming, well, at least you can stop or change it up before you make contact, while, with HA, you're stuck doing it, so predictable homing attack is a bad homing attack.

It's one of those things you'd use in mixups.

Like if you're jumping alot and notice your opponent likes to punish your landing, then go ahead, bait them to punish a landing coming from a double jump, but instead of landing, use homing attack right before you land, and it'll punish just as they miss a dashgrab/dash attack

If you SH ASC alot, maybe throw in a homing attack once in a while.

 

[Napilopez]

Simply put, most Sonic's don't know how to use homing attack right. If you know the mechanics and when to use it, you should NOT be missing with it. For me often, its a long distance punisher and is very useful in gimping by punishing the "dead time" of many aerials. Its startup is slow, but it travels a whole lot very quickly. The fact that you can release it at different times makes it all the sweeter.

That doesnt mean its a broken move or anything like that, but I don't think its bad at all. Plus, it pwns nado ^.^

Scenarios for usage: Offstage, as a gimp. Your opponent will be moving towards the stage usually. In this case, just drop down below your opponent at a pretty steep angle, and use homing attack. The will land right into your trajectory. On characters with a gazillon jumps, you pretty much know when they will jump, so use HA to punish that. On characters with standard jumps, just predict when the second jump will be used.

Use it for recovery as well when you know your spring will be edgehogged or gimped.

If you are stuck under the stage, use it to get back safely to a place where you can spring

Onstage: Punish charged smashes. Delay or dont delay Homing atacks accordingly.

General annoyance. Land one one Tenki and you gain +16 points of annoyance.

Its also easy to mix up Nairs ASC and homing attacks, because they all share similar animations and virtually identical startup sounds. Sometimes I even accidentally throw myself off XD.

Wifi Combo. A true combo in Brawl+Btw =P

Etc.

 

[Tenki]

lol

You can also use it to 'stall for time' as you're falling, if you get sent high up. It doesn't necessarily save your trajectory too much, since, if you do a non-homing HA, you'll go down at a 45 deg. angle, then fall for a bit first.

I know alot of people don't 'pull' homing attacks into a punishable position like I do and instead they try to dodge it, so generally, when I use HA, I'll do it with the intent of missing 9__9

 

[darkNES386]

Just my 2 cents. One very viable time to use it is when both you and your opponent had an offscreen skirmish and you find yourself below and further away from the stage than your opponent. The home attack will actually help you recovery via your opponent. Works best against characters with delayed recoveries like upBs for Diddy Kong, Falco/fox, Ness/lucas.

It's a very situational move... let's just say the HA represents Sonic. It's useful for something, you just have to know how to use it. Most Sonic mains write it off... most brawlers write off Sonic.

 

[Tenki]

baamp.

title change.

 

[Chis]

Donald bump, so people may see it.

 

[~TBS~]

oh guys. i got a question...i need to know how to effectively use spring to dair. sometimes i get the spring to hit and the dair connects, but is there any other use for the spring to dair? and i need help with approaching other than using SD or ASC. i try run and throw, and if they spotdodge, i wait and then throw, but still, i feel like i'm missing out or off of my game. Also, i need help with my speed game. like how to trick people with it.

 

[Chis]

ASC/SD > SRJ > footstool > spring > Dair > jab lock. It's in a combo video some where, I'll edit this post.

Dash > screech stop > anything?
Or walking as a defencive option? Fox trots are okay Foot trot > dash attack/grab/ Side B (cancel) ect...

Speed? Dash past > pivot grab?

I hope I've given you a few idea...

 

[~TBS~]

I know about that, except the first one. whats a SRJ? i need help with options that can be used as a mindgame. People know about the dash to pivot grab. approaching is a problem. i need to stop using dash and try to throw so often.

 

[Chis]

Spin roll jump, maybe I got the terminology mixed up. Look in Boxob's mind game thread? I just use dashes and cancels in creative ways. Sorry I was of any help to you.

 

[da K.I.D.]

spin dash jump doesnt go into footstool

and if you want to take advantage of your speed, dont use it.

if youve been running around the stage all day, and out of nowhere you just decide to walk up a f-tilt, a la snake, its one of the biggest mindfkucs out there

 

[~TBS~]

oh, thanks. i need help with my mindgames. all the things you guys say, i use, but it just doesnt work.
DONT USE YOUR SPEED? i never heard that. can you give me an example?
oh, your post is sig-worthy, KID.

 

[da K.I.D.]

start walking around every now and then...

 

[~TBS~]

hmmm...walk before you run. That could help. sonic is more of a punishing character, so that means that his approaches are limited. how do you guys approach?

 

[da K.I.D.]

possible approach options
run in and grab,
run past and grab
run past and screech stop to w/e
SH f-air,
SH u-air
SH b-air
jump behind b-air
down b
side b hop
SDR to HA
spaced f-tilt
SH ASC
SH Canceled ASC
FH ASC
FH Canceled ASC

 

[~TBS~]

hmmm. thats good. oh, i just thought about something...what about a jab to run behing to fsmash? or is that old?
wats a FH? fasthop? i fail at the acronyms.

 

[infomon]

FH = full hop

 

[TwinkleToes]

The reason walking works as an approach is because Sonic's f-tilt is so good (and one of his only longer ranged attacks). Trying to use Sonic's speed to "surprise" people is never going to work because even as the fastest runner in Brawl Sonic is still easy to trace. It's only useful in seizing opportunities and even that is somewhat limited given the reduced hit stun in Brawl. Still, I run most of the time anyways because I usually shield->grab [or] side-b. If for some reason those things were not working for me and spin dashing is getting me no where I'd do a walk approach and tilt my way to victory (or die trying).

 

[Tenki]

spin dash jump doesnt go into footstool

It does, at low %s.

That's how you do the "shuttle loop" thing. SDJ>footstool, (A)SC > SDJ > footstool... etc