• Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!

    You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!

OFFICIAL Sonic rFAQ! New to Sonic? Have a quick question? Ask it here!

Browny

Smash Hater
Joined
Mar 22, 2008
Messages
10,416
Location
Video Games
Double post coz this is gonna take me a while + no quick reply. If you dont understand the physics, well i dont know what I can do lol.

Let us assume brawl is based on real life physics. besides the varying gravity that seems to affect each character and the lack of any acceleration and real-world momentum makes things hard to imagine

Assume that Sonics vertical fall speed due to gravity is -1. This is constant. His dair gives him around -5. Thats not added, dont consider it as -1 + -4 = -5, He falls that much faster during the attack. G&W Uair imparts momentum onto whoever it hits but unlike most of brawl, it imparts acelleration as the change in velocity occurs during a small time frame. Now G&W uair is strong enough to completely override normal gravity but it just isnt enough to stop sonics dair, only just slowing him down. So lets say it imparts +4. since when used on a foe falling at normal speeds (-1), it negates that and brings em to +3. His uair has two bursts. the magnitude of the jump can not be considered as +6 (similarly as before) since its two bursts of +3, multiplied by the time it is active for.

Now how does this all work with homing attack? When homing in on a grounded opponent while used in the air, HA is very fast. possibly in the order of -5. it does not slow down during this time. Also the whole time, the HA is retaining its smooth horizontal velocity (as indicated by my picture) where it starts of very large, and drops off to almost 0 as it nears G&W. So what happened, is HA began travelling to G&W. before it got there, it had max vertical velocity (-5) and very low horizontal. The first burst of the uair interacts with HA. It does not affect the horizontal in any way, however the vertical is reduced to -1. Now the second burst activates, bringing the vertical velocity to +3, which would cause the HA to completely reverse direction and travel on to hit wario. the horizontal velocity remains unaffected. Its these 2 bursts which acted quick enough to give the illusion of a smooth turn, when otherwise it would look like a jagged line bending at 2 points

So basically, it was pure luck that the homing attack went after wario since he was in the exact location it would have gone whether he was there or not. Its a little confusing since brawl likes to randomly decide to apply acelleration sometimes while everything else, it just completely ignores it.

Now the above is all just a theory... it makes sense though. BTW please do not confuse acelleration of attacks with impulses, suchs as wind from TL dair, pits WoI etc. Momentum in brawl does not make any real world sense. Its the same stupid cr@p that allows ganons utilt to spike people (search youtube utilt trix) and of course, momentum cancelling which create impulses that completely negate any current momentum, it varies depending on how fast they were moving. Sonics dair when used to momentum cancel is an example of how real physics should look, and so is G&W uair. G&W upb when used to disrupt momentum is another example of mehanics that make no sense
 

Kinzer

Mammy
Joined
Jun 2, 2008
Messages
10,397
Location
Las Vegas, NV
NNID
Kinzer
3DS FC
2251-6533-0581
lolwut highschool physics?

@#$% is like grade school if I didn't know better.
 

Camalange

Moderator
BRoomer
Joined
May 12, 2008
Messages
9,420
Location
Seattle
NNID
Camalange
3DS FC
1160-9836-5007
Switch FC
SW-4197-1438-9208
I didn't take physics yet, lol

But gg djb O_o

:093:
 

TwinkleToes

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 11, 2008
Messages
1,545
Location
MN
lol, djb trying to use real world physics instead of game physics. What a nub :O

If what you're saying were true, then why is it that on PS2 you can HA right through the fans on the wind part of the level?

I REST MY CASE.
 

Jim Morrison

Smash Authority
Joined
Aug 28, 2008
Messages
15,287
Location
The Netherlands
lol, djb trying to use real world physics instead of game physics. What a nub :O

If what you're saying were true, then why is it that on PS2 you can HA right through the fans on the wind part of the level?

I REST MY CASE.
It's a weird wind, D-air also travels at normal speed there.
 

Tesh

Smash Hero
Joined
Oct 28, 2008
Messages
9,737
Location
TX
So he did use Up B or Uair?
Have you tried doing this again with somebody? Just using HA above GnW and having him Up B until you get a similar effect?
 

DDM

Smash Journeyman
Joined
May 4, 2006
Messages
417
Location
Springfield, MA
Just wanted to ask, because it seems the thread seems to have been removed, and I didn't see it in the Archives or when I used the search function. There was a thread Kinzer did analyzing how each character would be as a partner for Sonic. How did that turn out? Who were the best ones?
 

Jim Morrison

Smash Authority
Joined
Aug 28, 2008
Messages
15,287
Location
The Netherlands
Just wanted to ask, because it seems the thread seems to have been removed, and I didn't see it in the Archives or when I used the search function. There was a thread Kinzer did analyzing how each character would be as a partner for Sonic. How did that turn out? Who were the best ones?
First off, Sonic sucks in teams. He's better in running away in 2v1 and have the two opponents hit each other.

Otherwise, I remember MK, Snake and DK to be fine.
 

Kinzer

Mammy
Joined
Jun 2, 2008
Messages
10,397
Location
Las Vegas, NV
NNID
Kinzer
3DS FC
2251-6533-0581
Learn to powershield and make a lot of running approaches.

Don't try and gimp Zero Suit if she has her second jump.

Best place to be is below her if you have to do aerial combat.

Take control of the armor pieces, if you can't do that, better throw them away because they will be a nuisance to deal with and they hurt like Hell.

That's what Malcolm told me and it works rather well.
 

B_AWAL

Smash Master
Joined
Sep 4, 2007
Messages
4,883
Location
Tallahassee
Yeah cuz It was a F**KING pain to fight her. Not only that but he new how to space and it was frustrating trying to get 2 her. even w/ doing all of that. I did try to gimp her when she had her 2nd jump. I did mangae to get rid of the armor pieces tho. F**KING **** it was so frustrating when I look back on it and try to think about all the things I could do and come back with ******** options. Every match ended with the winner being above 180% last stock...
 

Orange_Soda_Man

Smash Ace
Joined
Mar 6, 2008
Messages
539
Location
Boston
Dear fellow Sonic Mains, I come to you with a problem. I've been getting grab-release gimped after using my spring to recover A LOT lately. I've tried to air dodge through the grab as I'm coming up, but I feel like I have to wait until I'm lower and I have to time it right [which isn't much of an issue].

Is there an easier way to avoid this? How well would fair work?
 

~TBS~

Smash Champion
Joined
Sep 30, 2008
Messages
2,097
Location
Rolling around at the speed of Sound, Maryland.
well, there are many factors in this situation. The problem could be that you are recovering too close to the stage for the person to grab you. And even if you did fair, there is a possibility of the person grabbing you gaining the SA frames from a grab and still gimp you.

The best idea is to mix up your recovery options, or either use HA and pray. Seriously, HA can save you in the most difficult situations, or kill you...gah.
 

Tenki

Smash Hero
Joined
Apr 3, 2008
Messages
6,966
Location
GA
if they're camping directly on the edge, space a little off from the edge so they can't grab you, then footstool off of them.

But if they're smart, they try to pivot grab you instead ;o

But if you airdodge, then they can only grab you in landing lag.
 

infomon

Smash Scientist
Joined
Mar 11, 2008
Messages
5,559
Location
Toronto, Canada
Use your up-B higher. Go through them during the invincy frames.

And mix it up.

Sometimes go low enough to just barely grab the edge.

Or wall-jump if possible, then grab the edge.

Although all of these options are very risky

using the invincy frames is best if possible; especially if you're able to footstool them on your way over!
 

Camalange

Moderator
BRoomer
Joined
May 12, 2008
Messages
9,420
Location
Seattle
NNID
Camalange
3DS FC
1160-9836-5007
Switch FC
SW-4197-1438-9208

WolfCypher

Smash Lord
Joined
Oct 24, 2007
Messages
1,303
NNID
WolfCypher
Switch FC
4999 6039 1484
What made Sonic go up 8 ranks on the tierlist?
 

Kupo Rose

It's what my cutie mark is telling me ♫
Joined
May 19, 2009
Messages
2,980
Location
Scotland, UK
What made Sonic go up 8 ranks on the tierlist?
Cos everyone else is too slow.

I'm having a little DejaVu...

….but how in the world did Sonic go from 31 to 23? I don't see him doing any better than those in the E tier IMO. I must have missed some game-breaking Sonic strategy to be lumped with the likes of Fox, Wolf, Sheik, Peach, and Luigi.
and the reponse was...

Go check his tournament results. If you're done, come again. Until then, shut up.
Boxob's reply works too :)
 

Mr. Johan

Smash Hero
Joined
Jul 9, 2009
Messages
5,579
Location
Edmond, OK
NNID
Sonicboom93
Three questions:

1) Are Sonic's two spin dashes affected by SMN as soon as they are released from the charge? Or are they affected as soon as the buttons are pressed?

2) I'm aware of Spin Dash's ability to go into a shield, a spotdodge, and into an invincible dash as long as it's performed on a steep slope and you don't change direction. Are there other properties to the Spin Dash?

3) When are Sonic's invincibility frames during the Spring jump? As he's jumping off the spring, or just afterward?

And probably not the best place to ask, but what would be the best method to take on Marth? I'd say he's Sonic's worst matchup because Marth can just maintain a distance and tip you, but I'm trying to find a way to take him on. Any ideas?
 

Tenki

Smash Hero
Joined
Apr 3, 2008
Messages
6,966
Location
GA
Three questions:

1) Are Sonic's two spin dashes affected by SMN as soon as they are released from the charge? Or are they affected as soon as the buttons are pressed?

2) I'm aware of Spin Dash's ability to go into a shield, a spotdodge, and into an invincible dash as long as it's performed on a steep slope and you don't change direction. Are there other properties to the Spin Dash?

3) When are Sonic's invincibility frames during the Spring jump? As he's jumping off the spring, or just afterward?

And probably not the best place to ask, but what would be the best method to take on Marth? I'd say he's Sonic's worst matchup because Marth can just maintain a distance and tip you, but I'm trying to find a way to take him on. Any ideas?
1) When they hit?

2) If you immediately cancel the spindash during a phase change that leads to the air (ex: side-B > hop, or rolling off the edge) with a jump input, you do a spinshot x.x;

3) as soon as he jumps off of the spring. He has a few frames where he's vulnerable as he's setting up/getting ready to jump off the spring, then he's invincible for a short height. Then there's a short vulnerability window where you're not invincible and can't do anything, then you can airdodge.
 

Kinzer

Mammy
Joined
Jun 2, 2008
Messages
10,397
Location
Las Vegas, NV
NNID
Kinzer
3DS FC
2251-6533-0581
1. What's SMN?

2. Spinshot, VSDJ (Vertical Spindash Jump).

3. Just afterward.

4 (kinda). Patience is a virtue. Lightning reflexes help too.

If you want specifics feel free to ask.
 

Mr. Johan

Smash Hero
Joined
Jul 9, 2009
Messages
5,579
Location
Edmond, OK
NNID
Sonicboom93
I can't believe I didn't mark down the Spinshot in my post. I found out the Spinshot before I discovered the spotdodging and shielding, so I thought I wouldn't point out a somewhat obvious tactic.

And I also keep confusing myself on whether Stale Move Negation takes effect when the move is used, and when it hits the opponent. Sorry about that.

But thanks for the Spring data. I kept wondering how come I was knocked back whenever I immediately used a spring. I'll keep it in mind.
 

4nace

Smash Ace
Joined
Dec 18, 2008
Messages
663
Location
Bellevue, WA
Hey Sonic Mains. Now that im moving Sonic to be a secondary mostly in tournaments, i decided im going to use him to cover my main's weaknesses, however the characters that i would like to use Sonic against i have little to no tournament experience with.

Could anyone give me some tips on how to move the Kirby-Sonic matchup and the Ice Climbers- Sonic matchup to my favor instead of 50/50 haha. I know practice will make perfect but are there any general strategies/techs that work well in these matchups.

Also, +8 points if you already know who my main is based off those two characters =)

Thanks,
4nace
 

da K.I.D.

Smash Hero
Joined
Aug 22, 2006
Messages
19,658
Location
Rochester, NY
wow, that makes like the 3rd or 4th sonic/falco player

as for kirby vs sonic, if you can weave f tilts, back airs and spindashes in between the backairs he will obviously be spamming and avoid the highly telegraphed f smashes he will throwing around at killing %s. you shouldnt have that much trouble with the matchup.

also, sonic has a guaranteed aerial grab release into running full jump forward air on kirby. and GR combos always throw people off
 

4nace

Smash Ace
Joined
Dec 18, 2008
Messages
663
Location
Bellevue, WA
Yup, I used to play Falco in Melee and always thought the character was interesting, but never really used him too much in Brawl. However, I went to a small tournament at my school 2 weeks ago with around 25-30 people and stomped really hard getting first place with my Falco as opposed to my Sonic. Now I know that is because Falco is much better at fighting noobs than Sonic, but I also feel like Falco is easier to adjust into a tournament mode as it is easier to play cautiously.

Those tips seem really nice against Kirby, I know ive been practicing grab release combos with my one friend for a few weeks now. Sonic has a GREAT grab release game since he is so fast.

Any other characters you would suggest switching to Sonic for?

Thanks again Kid.
 
Top Bottom