Official Snake Q&A Area

[Ken Neth]

Charging is a terrible, terrible way to describe that. He means using the tornado, but not chasing the guy with it for a sec until his guard is down. All that is is mixing up your timing BlueXenon..

Especially in the case where snake is falling, all that is is making sure your tornado is already out by the time snake gets close to the ground.

 

[AlanHaTe]

Yeah that's the one

didn't work for me :/

I get punished too much for attempting to approach... I just can't do this MU... Nades always explode when I'm trying to juggle or every single time I hit him.

I don't seem to find the key to do something on this MU... Your frustrates me u.u

Any extra advice?

 

[Dekillsage]

didn't work for me :/

I get punished too much for attempting to approach... I just can't do this MU... Nades always explode when I'm trying to juggle or every single time I hit him.

I don't seem to find the key to do something on this MU... Your frustrates me u.u

Any extra advice?

Do you have skype? It's easier to have conversations about the game/match ups than talking on a forum.

 

[Capuchon]

Hi everyone,

I begin to play Snake, and i would some answers for some questions.

- How techase with him ?

- How use C4 and mine ?

Thanks a lot !

 

[M.C. Pee-Pants]

Grab release c4 on wario, your welcome

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

- How techase with him ?

- How use C4 and mine ?

There are a variety of ways to follow-up on the tech chase, and most of it depends upon what you are going for. For example, Snake cannot regrab all options on all characters. He can only do this on a few characters. Even then, most people fail at it. The best alternative is to simply cover options with a few moves. For example, you can dash attack rolling away. You could Ftilt stuff behind you or you could regrab anything regarding standing up or a get-up attack. Then, build reactions off of this. But again, its more character dependent and you might want to try going for all regrabs on certain characters like DDD, spacies, or the links.

As for the C4 and mine. Come up with clever ways to use it really. C4 at the ledge to stop ledge camping from pit perhaps. Mine near center stage to catch any phantasm to center stage from falco. Mine simply anyway as a stage hazard to someone. Drop c4 -> 2nd jump explode when coming down. Again, there are a variety of ways to use these tools and you really just have to be clever about using it. Copying others is a good method too.

 

[AlanHaTe]

Do you have skype? It's easier to have conversations about the game/match ups than talking on a forum.

Yes, but I don't understand like nothing from it D:

I'm trying to learn... if I can't do it alone, I'll tell a friend to help me :3

once I understand how it works I'll add you :3

 

[PEACE7]

So if you space a nair while falling onto a platform on bf you can do anything afterwards with no lag?

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

Uhh... I am not entirely sure what you mean.

If you are basically falling from super high up and if you start the Nair at the right time, then you can trying aiming the last hit to hit just above the ground and after you do that the auto cancel frames take over for the animation and you get no aerial landing lag.

 

[PEACE7]

Yea that's what i meant i did it yesterday cool stuff.

 

[Ralph Cecil]

Could someone go over the Peach mu for me. D: I've been having a hard time with it. >_<

 

[-LzR-]

Utilt so Peach can't do much. Don't worry that your utilt will be stale, she's probably not going to kill you before 180% anyways so a random bair will do the job. Just don't shieldgrab her stuff unless she screws up, it's mostly safe for her.
I've only played this MU as Peach and this is what I think.

 

[MVD]

its definitely am annoying mu but nades and u tilt and crawling are broke

 

[Ralph Cecil]

Thanks lol. Knowing about the shield grab thing and crawling should help a lot. :D

 

[Black Mantis]

is there a guide to playing snake in teams?

 

[Illuvial]

There is no official guide, sadly. But watch Ally play Snake in doubles (go on Youtube and look up Apex Ally Snake doubles) and you can get some damn good information and tips on how to handle different teams and situations.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

is there a guide to playing snake in teams?

In the end, I feel there is nothing better than to simply fall back on the basics.

1) Throwing out attacks can be harmful to your teammate. Therefore, do not do this unless you can guarantee an attack. For example, if your partner gets grabbed or sent flying while they are in front of you only attack after they are out of the way. Some situations are alright. Again they get grabbed and you have the chance to Utilt kill without killing your teammate. Good opportunity. Same thing goes for grenades. They are a stage hazard to your teammate and harmful. Better to use when in a one vs one situation.

2) Its always a good strategy to tag-team when you can. Box in one opponent between you and your teammate to limit options and punish them. So, generally Snake gets long edgeguards when an opponent is offstage. He generally cannot chase people offstage. Instead of waiting around for the opponent to come back to you, go help your teammate get out of a bad spot (if they themselves are getting edge-guarded) or simply to start tag teaming the other opponent.

3) Try to cover options with your teammate. I suppose an extension of 1) in a way. If Snake gets a grab for Dthrow, work with your teammate to cover the options. If the teammate is in front of you, try to cover roll away or in place options. If they are behind you ignore the roll behind. Same situations for tag teaming. If Snake is near the center stage and the opponent is at the ledge, keep center stage. If you are the one in front, trust your teammate to punish the opponent if you mess up. So its okay to be the aggressor at times. Too many times I see both players roll backwards or stay in shield at the same time and lose stage control.

Other than this, you can improve greatly by simply doing those few things. The only way to improve on this I suppose is your general awareness of what is going on in teams and not getting too narrow minded on your own playing.

 

[TxB | Ramsaur]

I've got a question: Would this ever have any dominate use?- Buffered Reverse Bair follow up from anything that puts them in the air. Input: QCB>Y>C-back. This would cause to do an immediate Bair directly in front of him, but I don't know how or if that could be used.

Extra: As a main I took up Snake to learn patience, reading skills, and high order strategizing. It helps my Pikachu to add things I've learned from Snake to up my game, but I've never thought to add some things I've picked up with Pika to Snake. Pika makes tremendous use from buffered reverse (dash) action with the Uair>footstool combo and all that; and thought how Snake's Fair is garbage if you're playing a smart player. But Snake doesn't really benefit from Aerial combos (Keyword: Combos, not kill moves) and juggling like Pikachu does, so I wondered how it would work if Snake tried some aerial combo shenanigans.

QCB- Quarter circle back

There is no official guide, sadly. But watch Ally play Snake in doubles (go on Youtube and look up Apex Ally Snake doubles) and you can get some damn good information and tips on how to handle different teams and situations.

Don't forget about Ultimate Razor! Sparta Kick may be inactive, but he's another good one to watch. Ally is my favorite Snake main, and one of my favorite smashers of all time! I love just how smart he plays, and never takes unnecessary risks. Where Razer on the other hand likes to go in, and that's a completely different playstyle.

 

[PEACE7]

Can you get a video of what you mean but with snake?

 

[Ken Neth]

Ally is my favorite Snake main, and one of my favorite smashers of all time! I love just how smart he plays, and never takes unnecessary risks. Where Razer on the other hand likes to go in, and that's a completely different playstyle.

LOL

Ally is all about the hard reads, which if he wasn't so good at them and missed more often, all his hard reads would seem like unnecessary risks.

 

[TxB | Ramsaur]

Can you get a video of what you mean but with snake?

Sure, I'll try to get my capture card working and make a video of what I'm talking about.

 

[luxingo]

Sounds like Ramsaur is talking about a Reverse Aerial Rush (RAR).

I think RAR is only good for a read. Landing with a bair gives quite a bit of lag, and snake has a long jump duration as well, so it's often not worth the risk.

 

[TxB | Ramsaur]

Sounds like Ramsaur is talking about a Reverse Aerial Rush (RAR).

I think RAR is only good for a read. Landing with a bair gives quite a bit of lag, and snake has a long jump duration as well, so it's often not worth the risk.

No RAR isn't buffered (to my understanding and general use, please correct me if I'm wrong). I'm not going to dash up to some one and RAR a Bair in their face lol! That's like wearing a sign on your face that says,"Read me" lol. I'll try and use an example for what I'm talking about before I get a video out .

Ex. Snake uses a stale Fthrow on MK with a very low percent (like from 0%-10% just low enough to where the throw won't put him so far it resets the situation) which causes MK to take hitstun in the air in front of Snake. Snake buffers QCB>Y after the Fthrow which will cause him to immediately turn around while standing still (if you looked at it frame by frame it would look like Snake just *popped* him self around. No turn around animation) and jump; then buffer C-back during the startup frames of the jump. Watching this at 60FPS would look like he immediately went into a Bair on the first frame after the Fthrow was done. Does that help? :/

This buffered reverse Bair doesn't have to be buffered after a throw. It can be buffered after a spotdodge, ShieldSDI, or anything that means that you could turnaround>Bair.

 

[TxB | Ramsaur]

Sorry in advance for the double post.
Because I can buffer just about any aerial with (mainly Uair, Nair, and Fair) after Dthow, it will connect. Even in Brawl's miniscule hitstun. Snake's options after a throw would vary depending on the playstyle, but usually it's not going to be an aerial (except for Dair after Dthrow). Buffering a Fair would be stupid because of super long start up lag, and not much reward unless the buffered Fair is aiming for someone off stage, and even then will most likely be avoided due to the length of the move; buffering a Nair and Uair wouldn't have much benefit after a throw since the throw is probably going to send them far enough to avoid due to the fact that Nair and Uair have great vertical hitbox length, but small horizontal hitbox length. Bair seems like the only plausible option after a throw because of is freaking long, disjointed, horizontal hitbox, and low to the ground spacing. Bair after Bthrow would be plausible because it the enemy is already behind you. But if we turn the horizontal amazingness of Bair then we can follow up both ways.

Edit: Snake's Fthrow and Bthrow send your opponent too far, to follow up with an instant reverse Bair. Also Bthrow's animation ends with Snake's front facing the enemy (I'm dumb).

I don't want responses to be suggestions for what different options after a throw would be, like DACUS, or Dashattack, or using the time to set up traps. This is an idea for a new option after the enemy is in hitstun close to you, and I just want to see if It could add an the options Snake has after throwing. If it works: great! Even if it's barley used, at least we now know that's and another option we have. If it doesn't: Great! We just know another thing that won't work.

Update: I was testing this out yesterday, and I got benefits after Uthrow, spotdodge, Ftilt1 and, Utilt. I only tested Uthrow the most because they seemed to have the most potential, so here's what I got so far: You can use QCB>Nair or Uair to follow up an Uthrow at low percents. Not frame safe, but it is fast. Reversing Uair puts the hitbox right up the opponent's arse, because Snake doesn't have to drift behind him while he's in the Uair like he would if he didn't reverse Air after Uthrow. I've only gotten it to work at low percents, but progress progress. Reverse Nair after Uthrow does catch at low percents, but a transcendent MK Dair would counter it (Uair is safer #Disjoint).
I'm going to go to my friends house who has an HDPVR to try and get some footage of what I'm talking about. If anyone could recommend some debug mode/1FPS mod that would be great. (I use Riivolution for my mods but I can switch to Gecko or something if that is what's required.)
Try it for yourselves. All you have to do is buffer QCB (Quarter circle back) and anything after, and Snake will do said action only in the opposite direction. There are loads of possibilities with this (instant standstill pivot grab, instant dash attack which could lead into DACUS, instant dash in the opposite direction. Just anything that Snake would benefit from by skipping the turnaround animation and instantly doing things behind him), but I'm focusing on aerial follow ups.

 

[PEACE7]

Alright awesome man! If you can't get your capture card to work just hit me up with a replay and i got you

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

I've got a question: Would this ever have any dominate use?- Buffered Reverse Bair follow up from anything that puts them in the air. Input: QCB>Y>C-back. This would cause to do an immediate Bair directly in front of him, but I don't know how or if that could be used.

Snake takes like 10 +/-1 frames to get airborne from a jump. 7 more for Bair to come out. 1 frame to turn around. Tack on ending lag and brawls inability to combo in stuff, and this will never work if Utilt does not for quick follow-ups. The only benefit I see from it is the fact it lasts so dang long along with Uair. It can easily catch air dodges, spot dodges, or generally people expecting to get by snake quickly, but cannot due to a long active hitbox.

To be honest, I am surprised how often I can throw out SH Bair/Uair and hit stuff due to how long it lingers.

 

[TxB | Ramsaur]

Snake takes like 10 +/-1 frames to get airborne from a jump. 7 more for Bair to come out. 1 frame to turn around. Tack on ending lag and brawls inability to combo in stuff, and this will never work if Utilt does not for quick follow-ups. The only benefit I see from it is the fact it lasts so dang long along with Uair. It can easily catch air dodges, spot dodges, or generally people expecting to get by snake quickly, but cannot due to a long active hitbox.

To be honest, I am surprised how often I can throw out SH Bair/Uair and hit stuff due to how long it lingers.

Well using this method would cut out the turn around animation so he would instantly be facing the opposite direction. Remember I'm talking about a buffering technique so it's going to come out right after the previous action is over. Did you try it? Remember: You know you did it right if, whatever action you inputed after the quarter circle back he'll skip the turnaround animation.

 

[luxingo]

Snake can place landmines on platforms to use in aggressive gameplay. This is great because he can throw characters into the mine for a noticeably early kill, and it prevents his opponent from using aerials near the platform (and it doesn't affect him that much because Snake's ground game is used much more than his aerial game). He can charge it so that if he is thrown into the mine, he won't be killed, but if the opponent is, they will be. 15% on Snake is less damaging to him than 15% on MK or Falco or many other characters. Furthermore, he can perfect shield the mine by landing on it with a grenade in hand, and other characters can't do this.

Q, When is it less beneficial to use this strategy?

I'm thinking of games against characters who would get the grab more often than Snake, but which characters do these include? Are there other factors?

 

[-LzR-]

Well for one, when will you have time to do that?

 

[Ken Neth]

It's not that hard to have enough time to lay a mine >_> just hit them away and then go about your business. A lot of the time they're so concerned about making sure they don't die and getting back to the stage that they don't even notice it.

You can use it vs most characters, you just have to play carefully enough to not be in a spot where they can hit/throw you into it. But like you said, snake is heavier so it's not as bad if you get hit by it, and it gives you that safe landing if you need it'll avoid a juggle. There's also those situational uses like against DDD it will stop him from chain grabbing you due to his height, or characters you can force an air release on you can make them land in it every time if you space well. It is a good mixup, but I wouldn't so it every time (which applies to pretty much everything, I guess.)

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

@Kenneth: Its not hard to believe you have enough time to place a mine. But, I find the offset is usually not all that great. Here is a good example. Say you knock away Marth at about 60% with Ftilt. And you drop a mine dead in place from about center stage where you hit Marth. By the time you finish placing the mine, Marth will already have gotten to the ledge or be back on stage. You could have used that time to rush after Marth and corner him at the ledge. Instead, you placed a mine and Marth has all this stage room to work with. You gave up having a pretty good position advantage over the other character with the exchange of placing a mine and resetting to neutral position. You won't have enough time to place a mine and still rush over to the opponent maintaining your positional advantage until higher percents.

Although, getting a mine on a platform instead of simply on the ground takes a lot longer to set-up than simply dropping one in place. First off, you have to get to platform, jump onto and land on platform, drop the mine, then get off platform. From what I recall, all that time takes about the same amount of time it takes for a character pushed to the edge of the screen to return back to teh stage. So, you aren't getting that mine on the platform without risking being punished until your opponent is in excess of like 100%.

@Luxingo: I do not know about you, but I find it pretty rare that a throw sends my opponent directly into a mine. They can to some degree control their trajectory. They can get air releases if they so choose or ground ones and not go very far. Also, there is DI on the throws to consider too. If a mine is on a platform above Snake, then it prevents him from using Utilt directly below a platform without getting hur too.

Yes, 15% on snake is not that big of a deal, but it puts him back up in the air again where he sucks at getting back down. Depending upon how you get read or your options covered, you could end up with more than 15% after the ordeal.

To me, I would prefer to place a mine only if I have enough time to place it and still maintain a good position over my opponent. Such as after stocks, they are camping on the ledge (lol marth), or I push them so far away that it takes forever for them to get back. But in general, I just fine the mine more restricting to me than the opponent.

 

[Ken Neth]

I usually place mines when they're at higher percents and the mine could actually kill. There's not much benefit in wasting time laying a mine that will give them 15 percent with rare follow ups if its not going to kill them and you end up giving them back free recovery like you mentioned. But at higher percents an ftilt will send them to the upper corner and then you have plenty of time to set it up and still get to the ledge with a dacus a lot of the time. Or even if you uair/utilt and they're in the blast zone. Snake shouldn't be pursuing them in the air every time, and instead wait to punish the landing, which could give you enough time to lay one and at least reset your position if you don't have enough time to pursue their landing.

I have actually seen Ally use this stuff too against certain characters, especially falco. If you can force an air release they don't really have any control over their trajectory and you can land them directly in the mine. And since snake is so tall you can force an air release on a good amount of characters.

Edit: One of my favorite things to do with a mine though is when they're dead lay a mine under a platform, and a c4 right above it. Then ftilt them/throw them in that direction, the c4 will detonate the mine as well, and often you can follow up with a bair/fair/nair and it ends up giving 50+%.

 

[luxingo]

I usually place mines when they're at higher percents and the mine could actually kill. There's not much benefit in wasting time laying a mine that will give them 15 percent with rare follow ups if its not going to kill them and you end up giving them back free recovery like you mentioned.

Yes, exactly. I usually use this to score a significantly early KO, which in my opinion is easily worth setting the situation back to neutral.

Edit: One of my favorite things to do with a mine though is when they're dead lay a mine under a platform, and a c4 right above it. Then ftilt them/throw them in that direction, the c4 will detonate the mine as well, and often you can follow up with a bair/fair/nair and it ends up giving 50+%.

Ha! I love doing this too... except how on earth can you follow up with an aerial? They're flying in the air from the C4 and you're still in the lag from detonating it.

 

[Ken Neth]

Ftilt/throw them in>Jump towards them>detonate>double jump> aerial

Pretty sure thats what I do, but its hard to think of the exact inputs off the top of my head. If they land in the mine first, that is what gives you enough time to jump and still detonate the c4 to hit them. At low percents they don't really go too far so they'll still be there by the time you get there. Off the top of my head, I can't think if it's because they're still in lag or if they're just too stunned from **** that they don't react, but I know I follow up with an aerial pretty often. I usually go with bair or Nair, Nair could still get them if they do have time to react and they air dodge.

 

[PEACE7]

What are snakes options against ike when he is on the ledge using upB?

 

[Dekillsage]

What are snakes options against ike when he is on the ledge using upB?

Stand out of up B range and punish ikes landing when he gets back on stage, or throw a grenade into ikes up B as he goes up.

 

[Ken Neth]

You can also try putting a c4 on the ledge and time it when he gets in range.

 

[Dekillsage]

You can also try putting a c4 on the ledge and time it when he gets in range.

This too. Put the grenade and c4 tactics together and you have

Grenade their up b -> plant c4 -> c4 their up b. Depending on how they DI the grenade anyways. You're at advantage after the grenade hits because ike is free on landing I swear.

 

[PEACE7]

Alright and how about for when you are holding the ledge and he is trying to recover with upB?

 

[Ken Neth]

If you time the invincibility right you can bair him. But sitting on the ledge against Ike is usually a bad idea cause his up b is hard to avoid and it hits you down and puts you in a bad position.

If he's recovering near the lowest point of his up b range you can also ledge hog him if you time it right.