Official Snake Q&A Area

[tibs7]

pick up items from frames 1-4.
and item pick up range is just the rango of attack.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

"and item pick up range is just the rango of attack"
^It would be awesome if that were true. But sadly it cannot be. Snake's Ftilt and super item pickup range, never saw it happen.

Yes, it does answer it well. I keep noticing for myself there are clearly times I feel I am playing poorly and other times I am playing well for reasons I think I could control. And it always seemed linked to how I was feeling or I guess my mentality about the match.

I have been trying to figure out what aspects are contained within a good mentality. Some days no matter what I do I am playing bad and nothing I think of changes anything. Then other days such as love teran when I take a few days break, I start playing great.

So I am thinking of trying to isolate a few simple things to try to recall to get me back into that good mentality after I die or something. From what you said, I am thinking of this: "Size up the situation first before making a move." Track opponents movements. See my own spacing. Think of my option. Wait, then execute. Do not dwell on past mistakes or mischances, keep finding new ones.

Maybe I could doing nothing before the day of a tournament related to Smash at all. Completely whip it from my mind so I'll be fresh for the next day?

 

[Ken Neth]

For me, the biggest thing is sleep. Normally, I stay out late with my gf or doing other stuff the night before since the tourney is going to take all day. And I'm usually not super tired, but not completely rested either. But last tourney, I got to sleep way early the night before, and during the tourney I think I was playing the best I've ever played. My mind seemed on a whole nother level and it was so much easier to read people, analyze, adapt, etc. Compare that to my last OoS tourney where I drove for six hours, got three hours of sleep, then tried to play against top level players. That was the worst I have ever played probably.

Also, it's a lot easier to get frustrated with your playing, and everything that comes with the negative mind set when you're tired. And once you get into that mindset for me it's almost impossible to get out of it without a break of at least a day or two. so the best way is to just avoid getting into that.

Sleep is definitely the biggest consistent factor in keeping the winning mindset for me. Has anyone else noticed this?

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

I noticed sleep does something too. I never really tracked it to see how much its affecting my matches. I always felt like I could play really well even if I am tired or had lack of sleep. I do notice though that if I had lack of sleep or I am tired, I get burnt out very quickly in a tournament or at a smashfest. I might be able to play very well for about two or three hours, but after that it all goes down hill.

It might have to do with me in tournament in general. I get burnt out as the day goes on especially playing melee. It feels worse when I was playing multiple events as well. I am starting to like this take a day off before a tournament to just relax more and more now.

 

[Ralph Cecil]

The thing that helps me the most(and I guess it's something that's probably obvious and applies to most people) is actively thinking while i'm playing as opposed to doing the whole autopilot nonsense. o-o Also certain distractions to take my mind off of nerves are really nice like music, and chewing gum. ^_^ I also tried taking a break from Brawl the day before the tournament(except for maybe 3-5 games before I slept) and imo it helps as well. =D

 

[tibs7]

@xeylode: obv. not. aerials + dash attack is the item pick up range i was talking about. things that have a hitbox whillst picking up bananas.

 

[Ken Neth]

I noticed sleep does something too. I never really tracked it to see how much its affecting my matches. I always felt like I could play really well even if I am tired or had lack of sleep. I do notice though that if I had lack of sleep or I am tired, I get burnt out very quickly in a tournament or at a smashfest. I might be able to play very well for about two or three hours, but after that it all goes down hill.

It might have to do with me in tournament in general. I get burnt out as the day goes on especially playing melee. It feels worse when I was playing multiple events as well. I am starting to like this take a day off before a tournament to just relax more and more now.

That's how I am too. Until this last one when I saw how drastic the change was in my mental stamina and everything else after being 100% rested, I never thought it had that much impact besides the fact that I get frustrated easier when I'm tired enough. I never really thought it impacted my game in a positive way to get enough sleep, I had just figured it would help me avoid getting in the bad mind sets more.

As for the active thinking and stuff Ralph was mentioning, that's pretty much become second nature to me so I wasn't thinking along those lines too much, but all that is important as well.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

@Tibs: Now you got me thinking about dacus pick-up range. I swear snake's pick-up range on dacus is ridiculoug along with sheik and falco.

@Snakes: Do either of you have some level of control over what you think or what pops into your head? Many times I feel an on the spur moment to randomly try something different or risky when the moment presents itself. I am not entirely sure how you could ever control those thoughts though.

There seems to be a level of reaction and auto-pilot you have to let yourself fall into or else you'd be playing badly too. The split between melee and brawl makes this pretty apparent to myself. With how fast the game moves in melee, there is not much time to always assess the situation and figure out what is the best plan of action. You just have to react and allow your body to do the best thing for you. In brawl, those types of situations do not appear all as frequently and I find much more time to plan out my moves and weight them.

 

[Ralph Cecil]

Yeah controlling the pace of the match so I have more time to think is more of what I meant lol. Also as far as controlling those random risky thoughts in my head goes. I play risky in friendlies and the people I play against have characters that practically take stocks when I do something like that so it's become rather easy for me to just realize it's a bad idea lol. By risky I mainly mean going off stage. I do some things when recovering that are probably risky, but sometimes it feels like I need to take a risk in that kind of situation.

 

[Ken Neth]

There's definitely a necessary level of autopilot needed. Especially when it comes to reactions to certain things that you don't have time to think ahead. I almost think that your play style is considered your auto pilot. Once you have a solid play style and it's second nature to you, then your 'active thinking' during a match is focused more on analyzing your opponents habits, play style, etc and your own to see what you need to change in order to minimize getting punished and maximize your punishes against the opponent's play style. Instead of trying to constantly think about what you need to do, I think that's where it starts to hurt you because it will cause hesitation and draws your focus away from the other aspects.

Ralph, I have a bad habit of playing risky in friendlies too. I don't know why I always feel the need to try and footstool wario out of his bike or other ridiculous things while playing friendlies lol

 

[Ralph Cecil]

If anything playing like that lets me experiment with things in a mu or on a stage as long as I don't mind sitting out until it's my turn again. T_T

 

[Ken Neth]

Yeah, friendlies are a great time to try risky things out so you can work on their spacing and figuring out if they can actually work in situations. That way if you ever do need to go for something risky in tourney you know what to do

 

[Attila_]

i'm terrible in friendlies. i lose all the time. too busy having fun to play srs.

so long as you pull out the **** in tourneys, that's all that matter

in regards to auto pilot, i think the only thing that should be autopilot should be your punish game. like, when someone spaces poorly against your shield, you should grab without thinking. because if you think, its too slow, and you miss your punish. and since your punish is guaranteed, it doesnt matter is the opponent reads your autopilot reaction.

everything else is better with thought though. espc neutral situations. this is the most important time to think imo. its too easy to do something punishable or readable and then lose position.

a similar thing could be said for being in dangerous situations, like being confined near an edge or trapped on a platform. your first instinct is always the most predictable and punishable one. its times like these that creativity can really, really pay off.

and quickly, just in regards to the item grab with aerial question... do we grab on frames 1-4 of start up, or 1-4 frames before the hitbox comes out? i only ask because i have a much harder time catch bananas with aerials that i do with other characters, since his hurtbox moves so much when using bair/uair.

 

[luxingo]

in regards to auto pilot, i think the only thing that should be autopilot should be your punish game. like, when someone spaces poorly against your shield, you should grab without thinking. because if you think, its too slow, and you miss your punish. and since your punish is guaranteed, it doesnt matter is the opponent reads your autopilot reaction.

I wouldn't necessarily agree with this, because often I see players attempt to shield-grab spaced attacks, miss and get punished. It's difficult to specifically 'autopilot' shield-grab poorly spaced attacks and not autopilot spaced attacks.

 

[Ken Neth]

Here's that match I was talking about where Wario swallows the grenade and it doesn't disappear. It happens somewhere near the end of my first stock somewhere, I think around 1:30 or something IIRC. I definitely didn't strip it because I didn't pull another nade.

http://youtu.be/SRSFC3fPWpE

It would also be cool if you guys could check out the whole match and critique me. Even if it was just a friendly trying to relax after a long 11 hour work day and we were super tired I feel like it's an alright match and somewhat entertaining.

 

[Tesh]

Might be a glitch where he was about to close his mouth when the grenade got close enough. Notice Wario apparently doesn't get a hitbox because you roll into him and don't die(its stronger than his fsmash, but not sure if it lingers). He also is supposed to take 6% damage when he swallows explosives so iono what happened.

 

[Ken Neth]

It looks like he opened his mouth almost the second the grenade hit him/he ate it. So I don't think it's cause he was closing his mouth. I don't think the hitbox would have hit me even if it had been a normal situation. I don't think the hitbox lasts that long at all (someone correct me if I'm wrong). But you could be right, I just realized the wario didn't take any damage at all from the nade. As I think about it more, I think it's the wario that made it happen, not anything I did. (maybe the timing of the bite and when the nade hit him or something?)

That could be a pretty good mind game/mixup for wario if they figured out how to reliably do that - Eat grenade with taking no damage-> have the hitbox from it (if it's still there)-> have the grenade the snake doesn't think is there anymore to either throw at him or shield to cover all possible punishes from snake putting snake in the air above him-> ****** snake in the air.

I don't see anyone getting to the point where they could do that reliably, but the fact that it happened to us twice in under an hour makes me think it wasn't just some random glitch but something that could be recreated if understood.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

give me the replay file.

 

[Attila_]

i cant say i understand the glitch.

but in regards to a critique, a few general things:

- you jump at the opponent a lot. the risk/reward ratio is heavily skewed against you when you do this. he have almost no options from the front, and it led to a juggle several times.

- sexy platform cancels. try not to always roll afterwards though.

- moar pivot grab to fend off warios approaches; very safe and can punish hard

- very nice tech chases. good use of jab, ftilt --> grab. more snakes should do this.

- try to recover high consistently. wario has a hard time punishing our fastfall airdodge, since he falls so slow, so recovering high is almost always better than going straight for the stage.

- dont fthrow/bthrow unless theyre at really, really high percent. dthrow is a better option, get a read, get a kill. its not like wario should be getting edgeguarded by us.

 

[Tesh]

Does Snake's bthrow give his opponent invincibility frames after they bounce off of the ground? I just threw someone through a mine and it exploded but no damage.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

All throws except Olimars have 8 frames of intangibility as far as I'm aware.

 

[Tesh]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qiHcGDXY8jc

Upon closer examination, he is obviously flashing white. That kind of sucks. How am I supposed to set up awesome mine traps.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

down throw

(will watch video when not on phone I guess.)

 

[luxingo]

When do you use dair?

 

[False]

When do you use dair?

you dont


10char

 

[-LzR-]

Why do Snakes sometimes don't use Dthrow when it appears to be the best option? Is throwing them offstage almost always better?

 

[Ralph Cecil]

I think it might be character dependent. I personally would rather edgeguard Olimar than try and tech chase him, but it's the opposite for DK.

EDIT: Snaaaaaap I think I just saw something awesome, but i'm not sure if it works this way or not. I think I just saw someone place a c4 and the lip of BF under the ledge and it looked like the large hit box below thing applied to this C4 which made the large hit box hit on top of the stage. o-o

DOUBLE EDIT: This should be the right link. ^_^ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z1t5l5KKym0&feature=player_detailpage#t=124s

 

[-LzR-]

What about Marth then?

 

[Ralph Cecil]

I think it's still up to you for whichever situation you are more comfortable with or more confident in. o-o

 

[-LzR-]

Well my Snake is bad so I have idea what's comfortable. I just do them seemingly randomly.

 

[etecoon]

I toss marth off -sometimes- because he's not amazing at getting off the ledge but does have really good options vs snake's oki, but dthrow can still be more rewarding with good reads

 

[-LzR-]

All right then, about Marth MU, it feels tough. He seems to be able to safely pressure with fairs where nades won't be of much help and Snakes moveset isn't really good at combating it. Is there something I should know to make it a little easier?

 

[Ralph Cecil]

Some times challenging his approach with u-tilt and full hop bair works.

 

[-LzR-]

You guys answer fast. What about OoS against his usual options?

 

[Ralph Cecil]

I'm not sure if this is the right thing to do or not, but I usually just back off unless the Marth messes up or something. If they mess up I guess just f-tilting or grabbing or something should work. :o

 

[Ken Neth]

If a marth is spacing his fairs and nairs it is really hard to punish him OoS. But poorly spaced hits, you can use ftilt jab uptilt or grab depending on the situation. Marth has close to zero lag on his aerials though, so even then it can be hard to punish OoS (I'm assuming you're asking about when he hits your shield by that question)

 

[Attila_]

Against marth?

Dash attack all day. Srs.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

All right then, about Marth MU, it feels tough. He seems to be able to safely pressure with fairs where nades won't be of much help and Snakes moveset isn't really good at combating it. Is there something I should know to make it a little easier?

Walk/Dash to space yourself around his SH fairs. Then, punish landing lag with dash attack. Then, usmash to get away if you miss time it. Or Ftilt if you are really close. The range on Ftilt is stupidly broken. Look at this From standing, Marth's fair could miss Snake, but Ftilt would hit him. Its even more range since marth sticks his arm out when using Fair.

If a marth is spacing his fairs and nairs it is really hard to punish him OoS. But poorly spaced hits, you can use ftilt jab uptilt or grab depending on the situation. Marth has close to zero lag on his aerials though, so even then it can be hard to punish OoS (I'm assuming you're asking about when he hits your shield by that question

Well, yeah, its hard to do that on shield. But, you can grab a poorly spaced one and even a properly spaced one I think if you are fast enough (have to check). There is ridiculously little shield stun on any move in this game, so you can shield grab like right away.

Against marth?
Dash attack all day. Srs.

This. And in general, dash attack any characters landing lag to be honest.

 

[Ralph Cecil]

What if they do a landing nair while retreating though? :o It feels fairly hard to do much to that for me.

 

[Kuro~]

they're giving up stage control at that point which is a no-no against ekans.