Official Snake Q&A Area

[Ralph Cecil]

If we're already at the edge of the stage or something does that really gives us much room to work with lol?

 

[Attila_]

If you're on the edge... Then you already made the mistake.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

It still helps to know how to get out of those spots lol

Its interesting to think that there should be real no reason to fear being near the ledge at all. I mean, if you are in close proximity to another player even in the middle of the stage, the distance you two maintain is often times the same as when you are near the ledge. The only major difference is you have no real room to retreat while the other player has all the room in the world to back off to evade your assaults. I'm always surprised this is not used more often.

 

[-LzR-]

Ahh that helps. I always have underrated the range of ftilt. And yes, I was indeed thinking of Dash Attack, it seems like an amazing move overall for punishing pretty much any landing lag and if it can be canceled with an usmash as well...
I'm just generally afraid of Marth and I really easily give up stage control and end up in the edge where can pretty much safely punish us.

 

[Bonds]

little late on this but I like to fthrow/bthrow marth offstage or towards the ledge usually. I do my tech chases completely off reaction rather than reads, and his forward roll is just a liiiiiittle too fast for me to boost grab on reaction

 

[Attila_]

Predict tech chases all day.

Can't react to no getup attacks son.

 

[Ralph Cecil]

I can only react to the really bad rolls. T_T Also when some one shield breaks is it ever a good idea to do a fully charged d-smash next to them and then space a f-smash to where it hits them both, but doesn't blow you up? :o I'm not sure if it kills earlier or if it would be just for damage if you wouldn't kill. o-o

 

[luxingo]

I can only react to the really bad rolls. T_T Also when some one shield breaks is it ever a good idea to do a fully charged d-smash next to them and then space a f-smash to where it hits them both, but doesn't blow you up? :o I'm not sure if it kills earlier or if it would be just for damage if you wouldn't kill. o-o

If it's at mid-low percents, they should be able to mash fast enough to dodge the fully charged dsmash to fsmash.

If it's at higher percents, a charged fsmash should be able to kill.

Don't you agree?


Question: If you grab an opponent, what's the fastest throw such that you can prevent yourself getting hit by a grenade if there's a grenade:

• on the ground?
• on your opponent?
• on you?

 

[Ken Neth]

Just stick them and then fsmash, read the air dodge and blow them up after.

Dthrow isnt going to be the fastest, but if you time it well you can give him the damage from that and the grenade. I don't know frame data, but I think bthrow might be the fastest if you're trying to throw him and shield before it blows up.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

I'm sort of curious about shield break mechanics now. In melee, it seems characters get out of stun at varying times ignoring inputs.

Oh, well. You can mash out fast enough in most cases to completely avoid any sort of charged dsmash set-up on you or another character. Charged fsmash will KO as early as 30%. Probably like 60%-70% range to be sure for a guaranteed KO no matter the traveling distance, DI, or character.

I see no reason to set-up other than to style on someone, but never charge dsmash. Only place a dsmash without charging. People can mash out before you ever manage to complete your set-up. Its worse if you have to jump onto a platform to start the dsmash.

And Bthrow is snake's fastest throw. But do not forget that port priority on grabs prevents you from taking knockback on explosives.

I think the best set-up I have seen is run up stick, dsmash, then bair into mine if they are at low enough percents.

 

[Attila_]

That made me think of something random.

If a grenade breaks a grab, and we have port... Would we be able to instantly utilt or something?

 

[-LzR-]

There would still be 30 frames of releasing lag for Snake and the opponent would by the be far away. At least in theory. I haven't tried if Snake has less lag when a nade breaks the grab.

 

[TheLastCacely]

can someone link me to snakes thread with frame data? i cant find it

 

[Ralph Cecil]

You can find it and a few other threads(if needed) in the general directory. :o

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

For the lazy people like me: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=258332
Be warned, it contains large GIFs, so it may load slow. Also, EY was crazy enough (or lazy enough lol) to put some other data there without really explaining it such as 361 angle or that the numbers 1E for example are actually hexadecimal notation.

 

[Ralph Cecil]

What all can Olimar do out of shield against our f-tilt 1? o-o I remember someone saying he had some surprising shield stun(or whatever it was called) and so I was just curious. :o I also got to play a match against an Olimar and he seemed to not be able to do anything, but roll away and even then I hit him out of it sometimes. I mainly just wanted to see if it was legit or if he was just messing up.

 

[Bonds]

He can probably shieldgrab you like everyone else, but wasn't trying to

Fino has shieldgrabbed me out of ftilt1 before, both when I went into ftilt2 and when I didn't

 

[Ralph Cecil]

How strict is the timing on that? I don't think Olimar has grab armor does he? o-o

 

[Van.]

how do i beat falco if i don't play this game?

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

how do i beat falco if i don't play this game?

By not playing the game, you have already successfully defeated Falco. If you never engage in combat, there was never any battle to be lost or won.

What all can Olimar do out of shield against our f-tilt 1? o-o I remember someone saying he had some surprising shield stun(or whatever it was called) and so I was just curious. :o I also got to play a match against an Olimar and he seemed to not be able to do anything, but roll away and even then I hit him out of it sometimes. I mainly just wanted to see if it was legit or if he was just messing up.

Shield stun is damage/3. If 7/10 or below, round down. So, Ftilt1 fresh is at best 2 frames shield stun.

Spoiler

frame 1 - ftilt1 starts
frame 2 -
frame 3 -
frame 4 - hitbox out and hits shield and hitlag/shieldhitlag ensues (ignoring frame count)
frame 5 - 1st frame of shield stun
frame 6 - last frame of shield stun
frame 7 - olimar's action can take place
frame 8 -
frame 9 -
frame 10 - if buffered last frame of ftilt1
frame 11 - ftilt 2 starts
frame 12 -
frame 13 -
frame 14 -
frame 15 -
frame 16 - hitbox out for ftilt 2

Between ftilt1 and ftilt2, Olimar has 9 frames to do something. His grab comes out on frame 11 apparently.

 

[Kuro~]

By not playing the game, you have already successfully defeated Falco. If you never engage in combat, there was never any battle to be lost or won.

Shield stun is damage/3. If 7/10 or below, round down. So, Ftilt1 fresh is at best 2 frames shield stun.

Spoiler

frame 1 - ftilt1 starts
frame 2 -
frame 3 -
frame 4 - hitbox out and hits shield and hitlag/shieldhitlag ensues (ignoring frame count)
frame 5 - 1st frame of shield stun
frame 6 - last frame of shield stun
frame 7 - olimar's action can take place
frame 8 -
frame 9 -
frame 10 - if buffered last frame of ftilt1
frame 11 - ftilt 2 starts
frame 12 -
frame 13 -
frame 14 -
frame 15 -
frame 16 - hitbox out for ftilt 2

Between ftilt1 and ftilt2, Olimar has 9 frames to do something. His grab is 8 frames.

His grab is 11 frames.Olimar can only grab you out of ftilt1 if you don't do ftilt 2.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

Then I'm missing a piece of information that I should learn about then as to why this data dump from the PSA says something different. I bet the 11 frames is tested in-game (more accurate).

 

[Kuro~]

Hitbox - Frames 11-25
FAF: Frame 30

-Pivot Grab-
Hitbox - Frame 11-25
FAF: Frame 36

-Running Grab-
Hitbox - Frame 11-25
FAF: Frame 40

-Dthrow-
Frame 15-18: Hitbubble
Frame 19: Throw collision created
FAF: Frame 36

-Uthrow-
Frame 27: Throw collision created
FAF: Frame 42

-Fthrow-
Frame 4: Throw collision created
FAF: Frame 32

-Bthrow-
Frame 7: Throw collision created, direction reversed
FAF: Frame 36

-Pummel-
Hitbox - Frame 10-26
FAF: Frame 22

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

lol I know where it comes from, I just looked at the wrong character.

 

[Kuro~]

Wow. Herpderp.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

For the lazy people like me: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=258332
Be warned, it contains large GIFs, so it may load slow. Also, EY was crazy enough (or lazy enough lol) to put some other data there without really explaining it such as 361 angle or that the numbers 1E for example are actually hexadecimal notation.

I'm still contemplating making a new frame data thread.

I dunno.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

What exactly are your reasons for making a new one?

To me, this one is about as complete as it could possibly get unless there are mistakes in the one EY made in which case you oculd probably just mend the errors. Having the gifs is nice too.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

It's just not formatted very well. It's messy, hard to read and not very user friendly tbh.

Even I have trouble reading it. lawl

 

[Ralph Cecil]

His grab is 11 frames.Olimar can only grab you out of ftilt1 if you don't do ftilt 2.

So in other words you can keep f-tilt 1 pressure up on his shield and as soon as he goes for a grab do f-tilt 2? :o Also how much is spacing and how long it takes his grab to reach us being taken in to account? o-o

 

[Kuro~]

Not exactly. If you notice he's relying on Shield grab to punish ftilt 1 only then u can delay ftilt 2 slightly and do it to punish that as a read. But if he's not grabbing ftilt 1 no need to change what works.

 

[Ralph Cecil]

Yeah I meant as a read lol. Sry about that. =p

 

[False]

short hop air dodge in jab > destroys olimar

 

[Bonds]

his grab is 11 frames yeah, but you can't hit confirm to ftilt2 if you want to hit him out of the grab. That was my point.

 

[Attila_]

short hop air dodge in jab > destroys olimar

Not sure if trolling...

 

[Kuro~]

his grab is 11 frames yeah, but you can't hit confirm to ftilt2 if you want to hit him out of the grab. That was my point.

Well you could get particularly specific cuz theres still the travel frames for his grab since spaced ftilt will not be up in his face the pikmin has to take 2-3 frames traveling across the ground as well lol.

 

[Bonds]

idk anything about how many frames it takes for the grab to travel, hence why I excluded it. I believe the idea is still clear. I'll try to be more specific when I post, though.

 

[Dnyce]

He can probably shieldgrab you like everyone else, but wasn't trying to

Fino has shieldgrabbed me out of ftilt1 before, both when I went into ftilt2 and when I didn't

You most likely delayed it slightly. Olimar's only guaranteed oos counter-option to ftilt1 is up-smash.

 

[Ralph Cecil]

Ok awesome. ^_^ That's all I really wanted to know. =D Does the type of pikmin or spacing or anything affect that or is it just flat out guaranteed if I don't do f-tilt 2 or something? o-o

EDIT:Also how strict is the timing on that? :o

 

[Bonds]

Hi fino.

Yeah I try to do hit confirms all the time when I can

 

[luxingo]

Does anyone ever use sticky C4s competitively? If so, how do you set it up?