Event - MLG Anaheim 2014 Official Rule Discussion Thread

[DaomarIsBear]

smashmachine, you're making no sense... the ruleset doesn't cater to aerial or ground-based characters. However, the stagelist does... when you think about it, all those ground-based characters you mentioned have just a couple of really good stages, which also just happen to be "neutral." I think that Diddy and Falco would definitely drop in tier position if we took their best stages out of the "neutral" list... what I'm saying is that the versatile characters that do better on more stages are those who are aerial-based, because while the ground changes of every stage, the air is just... the air. The bigger the stagelist, the more it will probably tend to favor aerial characters, but that's the way it should be.

Why?

/10whys

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

Why?

/10whys

Because that's how it's built into the game. If the game was built up of around 30 FD clones, and then the last 10 stages were like Norfair, Brinstar, and Rainbow Cruise, then it would be a ground-centric stagelist, and it would be justified by the very nature of the game' stages. We wouldn't tweak the stagelist to put those 10 aerial stages on even footing with the 30 grounded ones.
The fact that we have to tweak the stagelist because certain stages are anticompetitive sometimes gives the illusion that grounded stages are "better" than aerial stages. This is simply not the case, and we should never tweak the ruleset to reflect that.

 

[DaomarIsBear]

Because that's how it's built into the game. If the game was built up of around 30 FD clones, and then the last 10 stages were like Norfair, Brinstar, and Rainbow Cruise, then it would be a ground-centric stagelist, and it would be justified by the very nature of the game' stages. We wouldn't tweak the stagelist to put those 10 aerial stages on even footing with the 30 grounded ones.
The fact that we have to tweak the stagelist because certain stages are anticompetitive sometimes gives the illusion that grounded stages are "better" than aerial stages. This is simply not the case, and we should never tweak the ruleset to reflect that.

Why not?

/10whynots

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

Why not?

/10whynots

A few things.

First of all, it blows originalism (which has proven to be the better system for virtually every game, and in which the solutions to almost every one of brawl's current problems lie) right out of the water, and goes right against Sirlin's principles, which have also been defended (at length).
Second of all, it sets a terrible precedent. Under what logical precedent would you construct the stagelist to favor grounded characters when most of the stages in the game do not?

 

[DaomarIsBear]

Well, wasn't Brawl created as a party game, not a fighting game? If we're trying to play it as a fighting game, taking on a originalist mindset seems like the wrong direction to go in. Those stages aren't the only stages present to artificially buffer ground-based characters, they're there to have the least amount of things get in the way while two characters fight.

 

[Supreme Dirt]

Well, wasn't Brawl created as a party game, not a fighting game? If we're trying to play it as a fighting game, taking on a originalist mindset seems like the wrong direction to go in. Those stages aren't the only stages present to artificially buffer ground-based characters, they're there to have the least amount of things get in the way while two characters fight.

The problem with people who argue for FD, BF, SV only starter list is that you assume that stage hazards are not part of the game.

They are. Stage hazards are just as legitimate a part of the game as Ganondorf's FAir glitch, Sheik's chain jacket freezing the game, RCO lag, PT's Stamina. You might not like it, but it is part of the game. If we are going to arbitrarily ban stages just because they aren't FD, then we should fix Ganondorf's FAir.

If we start arbitrarily banning stages because "we don't like them", then we have destroyed the game competitively. Every currently banned stage has a solid reason for banning it. 75m is not designed as a stage to be fought on and promotes... lots of degenerative gameplay. Big Blue majorly promotes circle camping, though that is extremely debatable. Stages with permanent walls are not playable because of infinites. Yet stages like Norfair are perfectly playable on. Every hazard is telegraphed. Sure, a spout of lava might come over on the side when you're recovering, but unless you're a character with a godawful recovery, like Ivysaur or something, you can delay your recovery a few seconds.

tl;dr: Stop johning about the stagelist. If the stagelist makes a certain aerial character broken, then it is not the fault of the stagelist. It is the fault of the character.

 

[ADHD]

The problem with people who argue for FD, BF, SV only starter list is that you assume that stage hazards are not part of the game.

They are. Stage hazards are just as legitimate a part of the game as Ganondorf's FAir glitch, Sheik's chain jacket freezing the game, RCO lag, PT's Stamina. You might not like it, but it is part of the game. If we are going to arbitrarily ban stages just because they aren't FD, then we should fix Ganondorf's FAir.

If we start arbitrarily banning stages because "we don't like them", then we have destroyed the game competitively. Every currently banned stage has a solid reason for banning it. 75m is not designed as a stage to be fought on and promotes... lots of degenerative gameplay. Big Blue majorly promotes circle camping, though that is extremely debatable. Stages with permanent walls are not playable because of infinites. Yet stages like Norfair are perfectly playable on. Every hazard is telegraphed. Sure, a spout of lava might come over on the side when you're recovering, but unless you're a character with a godawful recovery, like Ivysaur or something, you can delay your recovery a few seconds.

tl;dr: Stop johning about the stagelist. If the stagelist makes a certain aerial character broken, then it is not the fault of the stagelist. It is the fault of the character.

Is this BPC`s alt account? Or perhaps his little brother?

 

[demonictoonlink]

Now that you point it out, it COMPLETELY looks like the kind of alt account BPC would have.
300 posts, which is the exact amount of effort he'd be willing to put into it.
Toronto, Canado, a location that people read and yet nobody cares about.
And September 2009 was the best time to start alt accounts.
Plus Ganondorf.

If you're not BPC, sorry, but you really probably are though is the thing.

 

[DaomarIsBear]

The problem with people who argue for FD, BF, SV only starter list is that you assume that stage hazards are not part of the game.

They are. Stage hazards are just as legitimate a part of the game as Ganondorf's FAir glitch, Sheik's chain jacket freezing the game, RCO lag, PT's Stamina. You might not like it, but it is part of the game. If we are going to arbitrarily ban stages just because they aren't FD, then we should fix Ganondorf's FAir.

If we start arbitrarily banning stages because "we don't like them", then we have destroyed the game competitively. Every currently banned stage has a solid reason for banning it. 75m is not designed as a stage to be fought on and promotes... lots of degenerative gameplay. Big Blue majorly promotes circle camping, though that is extremely debatable. Stages with permanent walls are not playable because of infinites. Yet stages like Norfair are perfectly playable on. Every hazard is telegraphed. Sure, a spout of lava might come over on the side when you're recovering, but unless you're a character with a godawful recovery, like Ivysaur or something, you can delay your recovery a few seconds.

tl;dr: Stop johning about the stagelist. If the stagelist makes a certain aerial character broken, then it is not the fault of the stagelist. It is the fault of the character.

Your argument is pretty much "both of us are trying to find a middle ground of what is acceptable to play on, but my middle ground is better and you're wrong." If you're going to use the argument that these things are part of the game, then we should play on Wario Ware as well as every other map in the game.

 

[smashmachine]

Now that you point it out, it COMPLETELY looks like the kind of alt account BPC would have.
300 posts, which is the exact amount of effort he'd be willing to put into it.
Toronto, Canado, a location that people read and yet nobody cares about.
And September 2009 was the best time to start alt accounts.
Plus Ganondorf.

If you're not BPC, sorry, but you really probably are though is the thing.

i'm betting it is

 

[DaomarIsBear]

That, or BPC's brainwashing is working far more efficiently than any of us could have ever imagined.

 

[demonictoonlink]

I love how BPC is the new meme.

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

@ADHD/DTL: I lol'd. You'll notice how he's a little less foaming at the mouth insane. That's a good sign he's not me. Also you hopefully know my feelings on ganondorf (FFS Dirt, main a character who isn't... dirt!)

But nah, he ain't me and I don't know him personally. Too lazy for an alt (although I've considered it). If necessary I'll try to get a mod to back me up on this one, but I'm, as said, pretty **** lazy.

Well, wasn't Brawl created as a party game, not a fighting game? If we're trying to play it as a fighting game, taking on a originalist mindset seems like the wrong direction to go in. Those stages aren't the only stages present to artificially buffer ground-based characters, they're there to have the least amount of things get in the way while two characters fight.

Brawl was created as the game that it comes as in the box. It doesn't really matter what the developers defined it as, we have the game as such to work with. And the developers coding in-game points to a game that is incredibly varied, from almost straight-out pvp platformer fighting extravaganza a la double dragon (Rumble Falls, for exmple) to a twisted knockoff of Mario World 2 (Mario Bros, ironically enough, resembles mario 2 a lot) fighting game (most stages), etc. But here's a funny thing about competition. The form doesn't really matter. You have competitive platformer speedruns, haven't you ever seen "The Wizard"? When we play brawl, we can't see it as a straight up PvP fighting game. The game is not coded to work that way; it's always going to be PvPvS, regardless of what stage. We can't make it PvP.

Ever.















































But we don't have to!!! This isn't "PvP Fighting Brawl" we're trying to mold, this is "Competitive brawl". And by all means, if part of competitive brawl was playing through cutouts from Super Mario Bros 3 to determine the result of a reward minigame in a stage and it would still be competitive brawl! It would be a competitive game, it just wouldn't be the same thing as every other "normal" stage. Why is "normalcy" something to strive for? Especially when the game gives us so much more than the mundane to work with?

 

[DaomarIsBear]

Did BPC just reply to one of my posts without calling me a scrub or berating me for my opinion being wrong? I'll post a real reply later, about to leave atm.

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

I'm trying to improve myself. Baby steps.

 

[Luxor]

How thick are you? FD is not a balanced starter stage. It's ridiculously polar, and has about as much place in the starter list as RC.

BPC fails to mention how he's more polarizing than either :wink:

The BBR probably spends most of its time nowadays not arguing about whether to ban MK but whether to ban BPC.

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

BPC fails to mention how he's more polarizing than either :wink:

The BBR probably spends most of its time nowadays not arguing about whether to ban MK but whether to ban BPC.

et tu, brutus?

wtf you talkin' bout luxor?

 

[Luxor]

Playful reference to the debate that inextricably coexists with your internet persona lol, ignore

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

I'm too drunk to get fine humor man

 

[Luxor]

Will sig later.

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

Whee another person sigging me. ^_^

 

[#HBC | Dark Horse]

Whee another person sigging me. ^_^

I'm sigging that.

 

[Supreme Dirt]

Hrrmmm.... So people think I'm BPC's alt account...

Interesting.

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

Hrrmmm.... So people think supreme dirt is my alt account...

Interesting.

Fixed to make it more hilariously busted up.

Also MLG should add DP and PTAD

 

[-LzR-]

PTAD I am fine with, but I will never ever play on DP =/

 

[sunshade]

Why?

10chars.

 

[-LzR-]

DP has a lightcircle which is permanent, unlike in Brinstar. The rain only helps you if you circle... If your character with good airmovement, MK, Pit or something like that, you are pretty much unbeatable. Prove me wrong.

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

DP has a lightcircle which is permanent, unlike in Brinstar. The rain only helps you if you circle... If your character with good airmovement, MK, Pit or something like that, you are pretty much unbeatable. Prove me wrong.

Prove you right.

 

[Tesh]

Unbeatable stalling= your opponent can't reach you.

If you have to airdodge to avoid being hit my your opponent, that means they can get to you and there is a risk (however reduce it may be).

Its probably easier to time out on this stage, but the same is true of smashville, ps1 and rainbow cruise.

 

[Supreme Dirt]

I don't want DP on the stage list, but that's just because I don't like the stage. It's got light circle camping, but nothing gamebreaking.

 

[Brawlin]

K just a quick question. So u can only use gamecube controllers? None of the wii remote + nunchuk method? I saw on the rules that u cant use wireless controllers.

 

[Supreme Dirt]

You have to undertake a truly ambitious mod to use CC at MLG, like I am, which essentially involves making a GCC board that fits into a CC. Wii+Nunchuk would be insane.

Well, probably not, but I recommend if you aren't good with electronics, just learn GCC.

 

[Brawlin]

Lol ive only ever used a a wii+nunchuk. But i guess i could get used to the gamecube controller.

 

[Magik0722]

what is the ruling on this controller?

It is not wireless and has no turbo feature, and really its a GC controller with the buttons moved around, i dont see it different from using something like a madcatz controller, but just wanted some clarification

 

[Supreme Dirt]

If ZL is functional, then it has more buttons than the standard GC controller.

Unless ZR and ZL doing the same thing is within the rules.

 

[AlphaZealot]

Assuming that controller has no wireless connectivity at all then it would be OK.

---

There are two rule changes for MLG DC.

1: Winners/Losers/Grand finals in Doubles will be best of 5
2: Pause will be set to off. However, if for some reason the players/referee's did not check the settings and the game is paused, the penalty for pausing will still be the loss of that game.

 

[Choice]

how come the penalty for pausing is loss of the game and not loss of a stock? that seems way too harsh.

one slip on your part and it costs you the game or potentially the set.

 

[Y.b.M.]

I didn't know where to make this comment. So instead of creating a new thread, I'm making it here. And yes, it's concerning the Wii remote usage. The CEO/ Founder said Let him know what he can do for our community, and I'm asking to Uplift the banning of Wii Remote controllers. Since the next season is possibly starting next year, this would be the best time to address this subject...

Or at least make some rules about using them. There have been plenty ideas floating around concerning the Wii remote use. Taking those into consideration is a good idea. Allowing the wii remotes to be played allows more people to participate. Allowing more people to participate makes it easier for MLG events to sell out. And when it sells out, that's more money for MLG! And more competition for us!

Regardless of what you do with the Wii, you HAVE to use a Wii remote in order to play the game. There have been times where the game system had to be restarted and Wii Remote was used.... They even have a Wii station set up for side events at MLG, what's the excuse for that, When I saw that....my Jaw Dropped. So, I really think that would make things much better for the next installments of Brawl next season. Simply taking out your batteries will solve everything and checking them into the main station where the announcers are. Marked specifically so we know who's controller belongs to who. Or maybe charge a $5 fee for using Wireless...something like that... Just throwing out ideas. I hope someone talks to the big dogs about this so I can come to more Events...

If this is discussed in another thread then let me know, i couldn't find anything so I made this... God Kais!!!

 

[Tesh]

Maybe they don't want people syncing their own wii remotes to the MLG systems and screwing up matches.....but there is a simple solution to that.

 

[Psychoace]

how come the penalty for pausing is loss of the game and not loss of a stock? that seems way too harsh.

one slip on your part and it costs you the game or potentially the set.

They disabled the start button at Dallas.