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Event - MLG Anaheim 2014 Official Rule Discussion Thread

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MLG_JV

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*Updates*

1. Players can’t choose a Stage on which they have won a Game in the Match.

2. It has been made clear that Stage banning is to be done after the Characters for Game 1 have been selected.

3. They typo in Gameplay Rule #16 has been fixed.

4. The edge grab limit for all stages is the same.

SUPER SMASH BROS. BRAWL

Gameplay


1. No use of Marth’s Grab Release Infinites against Lucas and Ness.
2. No use of King Dedede’s Grab Infinites against Bowser, Donkey Kong, Luigi, Samus, and Mario.
3. Players/Teams who break Gameplay Rules #1-2 will be given a Warning. Each subsequent Warning that a Player/Team receives will result in a Forfeit of the Game (See General Rules #4).
4. No use of Meta Knight’s Infinite Cape Glitch.
5. No Pausing a Game without Referee’s permission.
6. No use of an action that freezes a Game, or otherwise disrupts standard gameplay.
7. Any Infinite Move must end before the affected Character reaches 300%.
8. Breaking any of Gameplay Rules #4-7 will result in a Forfeit of the Game.
9. Any sign of cheating may result in a Forfeit of the Game, disqualification from the Event, and ejection from the venue. Players who are disqualified from the Event won’t receive any Rank Points for their ranking in the Event.
10. In the 1v1 Event, the higher seeded Player must choose their Controller Port first. The lower seeded Player may use any of the remaining Controller Ports. In the 1v1 Finals, the Player without a Match loss must choose their Controller Port first. In the 1v1 Finals, the Player with a Match loss may use any of the remaining Controller Ports.
11. In the 2v2 Event, the higher seeded Team must choose one Controller Port first. The lower seeded Team must then choose two Controller Ports. The higher seeded Team must use the Controller Port that wasn’t chosen.
12. Players may request a Blind Pick of Characters for the Game 1 of a Match.
13. For Game 1 of each Match, the higher seeded Player/Team must strike three Stages from the list of Starter Stages. The lower seeded Player/Team must then strike 4 Stages from the list of Starter Stages. The higher seeded Player/Team must then choose the Game 1 Stage from the remaining Starter Stages.
14. After the Characters and Stage have been selected for Game 1 of a Match, each Player may select one Stage, from the list of Starter Stages or Counter-Pick Stages, that can’t be chosen for Games 2-11. The lower seeded Player will be given the opportunity to select a Stage first. The higher seeded Player will then be given the opportunity to select a Stage.
15. The loser of a Game must select the Stage for the next Game, however, Players may not select a Stage on which they have already won a Game in the Match. The Stage for Games 2-11 can be selected from the list of Starter Stages or Counter-Pick Stages.
16. After the Stage for Game 2-11 has been selected, the winner of the previous Game must select their Character(s), for the upcoming Game, first. The loser of the Game must then choose their Character(s) for the upcoming Game.
17. If the Timer runs out, the winner of the Game will be determined by the following criteria in this order: Stock and Percentage. If Stock is used to determine a winner, the highest number will win. If Percentage is used to determine a winner, the lowest number will win. If both Stock and Percentage are tied, Sudden Death won’t be used and a Tiebreaker Round will be played instead. In a Tiebreaker Round, Stock will be set to 1, the Timer will be set to 4 Minutes, and the same Stage and Characters must be used.
18. If the Timer runs out and a Player exceeds the Edge Grab Limit for that Game’s Stage, that Player/Team will Forfeit the Game. However, if the Timer runs out and both Players in a 1v1 Match, or at least one Player on each 2v2 Team, exceed the Edge Grab Limit for that Game’s Stage, the penalty will not be enforced (See Gameplay Rules #17). The Edge Grab Limit on Norfair will be 45. The Edge Grab Limit on all other Stages will be 35. For Tiebreaker Rounds, the Edge Grab Limit will be 25 on Norfair and 20 on all other Stages. The Edge Grab Limits only apply to Games/Tiebreaker Rounds in which the Timer runs out.
19. If a Game is started without the approval of a Referee it will be restarted.
20. Players may take one or more of their teammate’s Stock.


For Videos of all of the Gameplay Rule’s illegal maneuvers, go here:





1v1 Settings
Rules = Stock
Stock = 3
Timer = 8 Minutes
Items = Off & None

2v2 Settings
Rules = Stock
Stock = 3
Timer = 8 Minutes
Items = Off & None
Team Attack = On

Starter Stages

Battlefield
Castle Siege
Delfino Plaza
Final Destination
Halberd
Lylat Cruise
Pokémon Stadium
Smashville
Yoshi’s Island

Counter-Pick Stages

Brinstar
Frigate Orpheon
Green Greens
Norfair
Pictochat
Pokémon Stadium 2
Rainbow Cruise


RULES & SETTINGS

General Rules

1. Players may not use a controller with Turbo capabilities or Wireless capabilities. Controllers with Turbo capabilities allow Players to map a button sequence to the Turbo button. Pressing that button results in their Character performing a set of actions that would normally require the Player to press multiple buttons.
2. Players may not use a controller that has been modified in such a way that it alters their Character’s abilities and/or in-game mechanics. Players may not use a controller that has been modified to include a Turbo button. Players are allowed to make cosmetic changes to their controller, however, Major League Gaming reserves the right to deny the use of any controller suspected of providing an unfair competitive advantage. (Note Removing Springs is legal as it does not provide an ufair competitive advantage)
3. Players may not attach a headset to the Wii or TV.
4. Players/Teams who break General Rules #1-3 will be given a Warning. Each subsequent Warning that a Player/Team receives will result in a Forfeit of the Game (See Gameplay #3).
5. Players may not intentionally manipulate a button, trigger, bumper, D-Pad, and/or joystick on a teammate’s controller while a Game is in progress. Breaking this rule will result in a Forfeit of the Game.
6. Players may not appear on the Main Stage or Feature Station with sponsor insignia that is not approved by MLG or conflicts with MLG sponsors. Players may be asked to wear MLG apparel for Main Stage and Feature Station Matches.
7. In the case of a Wii/TV malfunction, the Game will be restarted from the beginning.
8. No Warm-Up Games may be played outside of scheduled Warm-Up periods.
During scheduled Warm-Up periods, all Games must be played with three Stock or less.
9. During scheduled Warm-Up periods, all Players must get up at the end of a Game and allow any Players, who have been waiting, to take their seat.
10. During Saturday and Sunday’s scheduled Warm-Up periods, Players/Teams who haven’t been eliminated from the Event have priority over other
11. Players/Teams regarding the use of open Stations.
12. Players who break General Rules #8-11 may be given a Foul (See Pro Circuit Conduct Rules).
13. If a Player/Team fails to report to their Station within 5 minutes of their Match’s announcement, they will Forfeit the 1st Game. 10 minutes after the announcement, a Player/Team will Forfeit the Best of 3 Game Match or the 2nd Game of the Best of 5/7/11 Game Match. 15 minutes after the announcement, a Player/Team will Forfeit the Best of 5, Best of 7, or Best of 11 Game Match. If both Players/Teams Forfeit the Match, the higher seeded Player/Team will win the Match.
14. Players/Teams may Forfeit a Game or Match if a Player leaves their Station without their Referee’s permission, or is otherwise unable to play. Referees may set a time limit for a Player who has requested that they be allowed to leave their Station, however, Referees may also deny a Player’s request to leave their Station. Players/Teams may Forfeit a Game or Match if a Player hasn’t returned by the end of their Referee’s set time limit.
 

Conviction

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What was the reasoning or theory behind allowing PS2 as a counterpick?

I'm just curious seeing how I keep hearing so much about it.
 

Ripple

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MLG needs a mod who actually keeps up with the community.

overswarm would be a good candidate
 

Steeler

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the first rule makes me laugh.

they aren't infinites, and those two characters aren't the only ones that can take advantage of it...
 

rPSIvysaur

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They sort of are, but I think MLG basically means that no regrabbing w/o dashing.
 

Crow!

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@Iblis: A better question: is there a theory behind banning PS2? Game components are innocent until proven guilty. From what I've seen and heard, PS2 is really quite similar to PS1 in terms of what it does to top level play.


Also, I find it very interesting that MLG is obviously paying attention to the backlash toward rules 1 and 2, since they've changed rule 1, but they still haven't fixed them in the eyes of those who were questioning the logic before. By chance, can we get an explanation for why rules 1 and 2 (and therefore 3) exist whatsoever? If you explain that, we could help you implement whatever that objective is in a more logical fashion.

Right now the rules announce to anyone familiar with Brawl (at rule #1, no less!) that the person(s) who made the rules do(es) not know much about the game.
 

rPSIvysaur

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Character viability = Greater Turnout

I know that, that rule basically has MLG Raleigh in the bag for me.
 

GunmasterLombardi

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Castle Seige, Halberd, Delfino, and Lylat should be counterpicks.

And for the scrubs who can't fight Falco, Diddy, or Snake, if you just get better then you'll realize FD is fine as a starter.
 

rPSIvysaur

[ɑɹsaɪ]
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And for the scrubs who can't fight Gdubs, if you just get better then you'll realize Green Greens is fine as a CP.
 

T-block

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Also, I find it very interesting that MLG is obviously paying attention to the backlash toward rules 1 and 2, since they've changed rule 1, but they still haven't fixed them in the eyes of those who were questioning the logic before. By chance, can we get an explanation for why rules 1 and 2 (and therefore 3) exist whatsoever? If you explain that, we could help you implement whatever that objective is in a more logical fashion.
^This.

Please give us an official stance, because the "revision" to this rule doesn't actually solve anything.
 

MK26

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http://www.mediafire.com/?zj2oddmz0yy for ZSS fix!
Whoa
New forum
Interesting

(vvvvv Important Stuff Below vvvvv)

======

Gameplay

1. No use of Marth’s or Chirzard's Grab Release Infinites against Lucas and Ness.
2. No use of King Dedede’s Grab Infinites against Bowser, Donkey Kong, Luigi, Samus, and Mario.

7. Any Infinite Move must end before the affected Character reaches 300%.
why are 1 and 2 not lumped in under 7?

18. If the Timer runs out and a Player exceeds the Edge Grab Limit for that Game’s Stage, that Player/Team will Forfeit the Game. However, if the Timer runs out and both Players in a 1v1 Match, or at least one Player on each 2v2 Team, exceed the Edge Grab Limit for that Game’s Stage, the penalty will not be enforced (See Gameplay Rules #16). The Edge Grab Limit on Norfair will be 45. The Edge Grab Limit on all other Stages will be 35. The Edge Grab Limits only apply to Games/Tiebreaker Rounds in which the Timer runs out.
If i repost my response to the bolded here, will i get a response?
Come to think of it, to conserve space, i'll just link to it: http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=9957543&postcount=5

Starter Stages

Battlefield
Castle Siege
Delfino Plaza
Final Destination
Halberd
Lylat Cruise
Pokémon Stadium
Smashville
Yoshi’s Island

Counter-Pick Stages

Brinstar
Frigate Orpheon
Green Greens
Norfair
Pictochat
Pokémon Stadium 2
Rainbow Cruise
just sayin i like this list

RULES & SETTINGS

General Rules


1. Players may not use a controller with Turbo capabilities or Wireless capabilities. Controllers with Turbo capabilities allow Players to map a button sequence to the Turbo button. Pressing that button results in their Character performing a set of actions that would normally require the Player to press multiple buttons.
Is this rule (specifically, the part referring to wireless controllers obviously) up for discussion? It feels kind of odd not being able to use the default controller for your system...especially since the GC controllers basically arent being sold any more.

======

(^^^^^ Important Stuff Above ^^^^^)

Castle Seige, Halberd, Delfino, and Lylat should be counterpicks.
Castle Siege, Halberd, adn Delfino deserve a chance. Lylat's legit anyways, you just have to learn to pay attention.
 

T-block

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It's not that we're whining about the infinite being banned -_-

At the moment, the rule is incomplete and unclear, and could lead to disputes. Charizard is forced to move forward when regrabbing Ness, so it's technically not an infinite. Since only Marth and Charizard are not allowed to regrab them, is Squirtle allowed then? What about Yoshi's standing grab infinite on Wario? What if King Dedede chooses to take a small step forward when regrabbing DK? Is that banned?
 

GunmasterLombardi

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Rule 7 aims toward ICs CG and anything on ROB I would assume.

I play perfectly fine on Lylat but I'm just staring at what isn't part of the BBR ruleset, excluding banning the D3 infinite.

Edit: D3 will still end up at the edge, ending the infinite, so no that isn't banned...duh.
 

Amazing Ampharos

Balanced Brawl Designer
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Castle Seige, Halberd, Delfino, and Lylat should be counterpicks.

And for the scrubs who can't fight Falco, Diddy, or Snake, if you just get better then you'll realize FD is fine as a starter.
This is a ridiculous argument.

"We should have more restrictive rules. If you don't like it, get better."

If you are indeed getting better, you should be able to handle a wider variety of starters. If you have problems with Castle Siege, Halberd, Delfino Plaza, or Lylat Cruise, you can just get better. There is nothing non-starter worthy about any of those stages that getting better can't solve. I'd think intuitively more getting better would be needed to be ready to play on 9 starters instead of 5 actually; the only case in which it helps you avoid getting better is when you're avoiding a stage that is really awful in some particular matchup and finding it easier to strike... which sounds like a really good thing to me! The counterpick, not the first game, is the one on which you are supposed to be ready to face a hard stage, and no character should ever see one of their three best stages in the game on game 1 which under 5 stage striking happened to Ice Climbers on a routine basis.

Perhaps reworking your argument slightly to something more absurd with equal logical validity will show the weakness best to you:

75m, Hanenbow, Big Blue, and Mushroomy Kingdom 1-2 should be counterpicks.

And for the scrubs who can't fight Meta Knight, Mr. Game & Watch, or Marth, if you just get better then you'll realize Norfair is fine as a starter.
It is the exact same thing you just did. You're going to need to bring more to the table if you want to be convincing.

Also, for the record, the MLG's stage list only violates the current BBR stage rules by banning Jungle Japes and Pirate Ship (which are solid recommended counterpicks) and by having Delfino Plaza in particular as a starter (solidly recommended counterpick). Having Lylat Cruise, Castle Siege, and Halberd as starters is supported but the current BBR ruleset. Adding Delfino Plaza as a starter makes sense in order to reach an odd number. All their counterpicks are BBR supported as well; they all fall either under counterpick stages or counterpick/banned stages.
 

fkacyan

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Messages
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Rule 7 aims toward ICs CG and anything on ROB I would assume.

I play perfectly fine on Lylat but I'm just staring at what isn't part of the BBR ruleset, excluding banning the D3 infinite.

Edit: D3 will still end up at the edge, ending the infinite, so no that isn't banned...duh.
You're missing the point. When putting out a rule that is meant to be objective (i.e. require minimal judgment from a third party), the idea is to write it so that it is clear what is allowed and what is not.

In this case, it is not clear what is legal and what isn't, and as such has the likelihood to create disputes when somebody feels that they are not breaking a rule and it is judged that they are.

Honestly, the infinites shouldn't be banned at all.
 

M@v

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The only serious problem I have with this ruleset(like a lot of other people), is the inclusion of green greens. I can live with picto and PS2.
 

fkacyan

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Messages
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Alright then, I bet a lot of DK and EB players won't come and MLG will lose attendance. Is that what MLG wants?
And what about the attendance they're losing because of MK? There are probably people who not going because he's legal - Should we ban him to make them attend?

And what about other infinites? Why are they allowed?
 

GunmasterLombardi

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Alright then, I bet a lot of DK and EB players won't come and MLG will lose attendance. Is that what MLG wants?
^This.

@AA: According to this, http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=230481, Halberd, Lylat ,and Delfino, could be counterpicks OR starters. BUT PLEASE EXCUSE ME IF THE TOURNIES I'VE LOOKED INTO HAD THEM AS COUNTERPICKS. Ugh...

Edit: I play perfectly fine on those stages BUT having them as stsrters is unfamiliar to me.
 

rPSIvysaur

[ɑɹsaɪ]
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And what about the attendance they're losing because of MK? There are probably people who not going because he's legal - Should we ban him to make them attend?
There's also the loss of the MK players. These infinites are very easy to fix non-global changes.

And what about other infinites? Why are they allowed?[/QUOTE]
The IC's is allowed b/c it's a large part of their metagame. One's on characters such as ROB don't make him such a largely unviable character such as the GR Infinites and DDD Infinite. If MLG knew that if they banned the footstool shenanigans they would get 25 more people, don't you think they would? But it is odd that they don't ban those IMO.
 

#HBC | J

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So my area is starting to use this ruleset.

IMO i find it just fun still nonetheless. The stage list is pretty good. GrGs is a dif cp though it isn't that bad, Pictochat <3, though PS2 is very weird. No harmful gimicks just the weird stage problems make it very weird. Like some characters have obvious advantages there, well so does Diddy on FD or GW on BF. It's just learning how to cp these stages to your advantage ;p

The controller rule is weird indeed. Some people that is what they use and it is kindof biased since most people use GC controllers and your right they are not really sold anymore. Wiimotes are what come with the system so why ban the thing nintendo made especially for the wii? I know in my personal opinon GC controllers are better for me. Though some people just do better with wiimotes. Banning is just meh. Though it doesn't personally effect me, I can still see how it would cripple some peoples playstyle.

If CGs were banned ICs would drop like a full tier. Some characters would have better chance against some. Like Lucas/Ness they both get GR by a lot more of the cast then other characters. Though rPSI is correct. Banning CG would be knocking out a major part of their metagame. CG is a good battlestyle though I hate when I get trapped in it xD

I like the new striking style of 3/4/1. It's cool though meh about higher seed. Btw do they mean character or the brawler themself?

These rules are unique and are a fun new change. May be a little silly though I like it.
 

Asakura cR

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In general, I really enjoy this ruleset. Although I do find that banning certain (albeit easier) infinites is silly.

I'm really excited to see how this all plays out come next weekend.
 

fkacyan

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There's also the loss of the MK players. These infinites are very easy to fix non-global changes.

And what about other infinites? Why are they allowed?
The IC's is allowed b/c it's a large part of their metagame. One's on characters such as ROB don't make him such a largely unviable character such as the GR Infinites and DDD Infinite. If MLG knew that if they banned the footstool shenanigans they would get 25 more people, don't you think they would? But it is odd that they don't ban those IMO.[/QUOTE]

I think you're missing the point. You're going to lose people regardless. The idea is that you should be going all or nothing as far as banning infinites goes, and not waffling around the issue by catering to specific characters when you shouldn't be doing so at all.
 

rPSIvysaur

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I think you're missing the point. You're going to lose people regardless. The idea is that you should be going all or nothing as far as banning infinites goes, and not waffling around the issue by catering to specific characters when you shouldn't be doing so at all.
You see, this is a ruleset for a tournament. This is in no way the suggested standard for every tournament. You'll see a lot of tournaments banning these infinites, so do you go about saying "all or nothing" when you go to them? If this was the BBR suggested ruleset then I'd agree with you, but it isn't.
 

MarKO X

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The controller rule is weird for Brawl, but it's pretty standard for other games.
Of course, Brawl is not like other games, and that should be considered, especially if you have legit players that play legit on said wireless Wii controllers.

The inconsistent infinite rules are still lol.
 

fkacyan

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You see, this is a ruleset for a tournament. This is in no way the suggested standard for every tournament. You'll see a lot of tournaments banning these infinites, so do you go about saying "all or nothing" when you go to them? If this was the BBR suggested ruleset then I'd agree with you, but it isn't.
Any tourney that doesn't run the MLG ruleset is bat**** insane, at least if they're mainstream. Attendees need practice for what's to come. That's why the BBR, from what I've seen, is pretty upset that MLG didn't really consult them on the ruleset; it becomes toe de facto ruleset simply because the tourney series is so large.
 

rPSIvysaur

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Any tourney that doesn't run the MLG ruleset is bat**** insane, at least if they're mainstream. Attendees need practice for what's to come. That's why the BBR, from what I've seen, is pretty upset that MLG didn't really consult them on the ruleset; it becomes toe de facto ruleset simply because the tourney series is so large.
The only part where this really goes into effect is the stages. You don't really have to practice the infinites that are banned from the tourney (in fact, if you're practicing, you should be learning more than just the infinites). The banning of infinites are really unnecessary for TO's do to, the only thing major TO's should get out of this are the stages.
 

Jack Kieser

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Any tourney that doesn't run the MLG ruleset is bat**** insane, at least if they're mainstream. Attendees need practice for what's to come. That's why the BBR, from what I've seen, is pretty upset that MLG didn't really consult them on the ruleset; it becomes toe de facto ruleset simply because the tourney series is so large.
Just out of curiousity, who exactly said that the BBR wasn't consulted? Everything I've read, from the BBR members in the MK Ban thread to the MLG heads... well, everywhere, says that the MLG ruleset was made hand in hand with the BBR. I'm just wondering where this is said, so I can read it myself.
 

dj asakura

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So then it was 100% collaboration between BBR and MLG? I'm not saying it's impossible, I just think it's weird that they wouldn't just use the rules they already had set in place.
 

T-block

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I believe the BBR was consulted, but was disappointed that they didn't have more influence over the final ruleset.

But don't quote me on that.
 

falco freak

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So the controller rule says no wireless controllers but I don't see what the problem is. I use a wavebird which I catch flak for but hey its what I've had since my old gamecube controller broke. And also rule 18 confuses me a little. It says something about edge grab limits. What exactly are those?
 

fkacyan

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Just out of curiousity, who exactly said that the BBR wasn't consulted? Everything I've read, from the BBR members in the MK Ban thread to the MLG heads... well, everywhere, says that the MLG ruleset was made hand in hand with the BBR. I'm just wondering where this is said, so I can read it myself.
Just for the record, it was never stated directly, but some posts in various threads by Ankoku and others implied that they were as surprised by the release of the rules as we were.

And they would never state it directly. These are MLG-owned boards; I doubt direct criticism would go over well, and it would also be an admission that they didn't have much actual influence, thus giving the perception that the BBR could be ignored in the future.

tl;dr - PR BLAH
 

MarKO X

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So the controller rule says no wireless controllers but I don't see what the problem is. I use a wavebird which I catch flak for but hey its what I've had since my old gamecube controller broke. And also rule 18 confuses me a little. It says something about edge grab limits. What exactly are those?
edge grab limits are limits to the number of times you can grab the edge of the stage... generally to prevent things like this from happening.

pre-edit: lol. that video still makes me laugh.
 
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