Luigi player
Smash Master
Planking MK is so scary because of SL...
Pit might be really gay/good too, but it's not as risky approaching him there, because his uair won't stage spike you... same for GaW and his nair.
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Official Metaknight Discussion
- Thread starter Hylian
- Start date
- Status
Pit might be really gay/good too, but it's not as risky approaching him there, because his uair won't stage spike you... same for GaW and his nair.
there's somewhat of a trade off though, unlike MK or GAW, pit can edge camp you when he's behind and regain a lead through that, he might not KO you by edge camping, but he still can't really be approached by most characters(MK does fine at this rofl)
GAW's up B is also a threat to stage spike you
GAW's up B is also a threat to stage spike you
iRJi
Smash Champion
- Joined
- Sep 9, 2008
- Messages
- 2,423
Oh? Interesting.
iRJi
Smash Champion
- Joined
- Sep 9, 2008
- Messages
- 2,423
Ok, here we go:
Detailed explanation of proposal: Temp ban of metaknight.
We will divide the year into two sections, a six-month interval in length for each section. One interval will have Metaknight banned from tourney play, and another interval with Metaknight in play. The reason why it is a six-month interval are for these reasons:
1) If the time interval is shorter, player can simply wait out until the testing is finished. By making it 6 months of testing continuously , not only does that give us enough time to actually see a chance in the meta game, it also disables players from just simply “waiting until it’s done”
2) The time interval gives enough time for a single person to enter enough tourneys where the game can drastically change. It was suggested that if we can do it for 3-4 months instead of six months, and it was turned down because of this reason:
On average, a tournament is held on Saturdays. There are 4 Saturdays in a month. By doing this calculation for six months, a single person can have an approximate total of 24 tournament entries. Now, if you want to do fewer months, you subtract 4 for every month you want eliminated, so if you want the interval to be 3 months, you take 24-12 and you only get 12 tournaments, and for 4 months, you only get 16. There is a huge mathematical difference in these numbers. By taking off months, you limit the information that can be gained, the extra time to properly learn a high potential of a character, and the possible growth of a character overall.
3) By making it ½ a year of testing, you allow players to gain more experience with other characters, and by doing that, they can possibly place better in tournaments. This will help the results overall for logging them.
How to log the information
Each month we make a thread on Smashboards in the tactical section (or one major thread with all the information gathered) and we take information that happen within each month and break it down into sections:
1) Character Usage
2) Overall attendance
3) Character Development
4) player reactions in terms of how he feels at the state where he/she is in about how the meta game
The reason why I have this combination of choice is because it splits factual hand-put data, with opinion based emotion about a situation. The meta game is not just based on the characters, but how the players feel toward the characters. Within the 6 months, we can take note on how a character has grown or has been crippled, and add that to overall data. In 6 months, we can take the overall character usage and attendance, and see how a character grew within that time. By doing this monthly, we can compare data over time as well as a persons’ opinion about this situation, and see how it changes within the 6 months.
We will keep track of placings by how Ankoku does it. Here are the requirements:
MAKE SURE IT WAS AT LEAST 13 PEOPLE IN THE TOURNAMENT
Number of entrants
Entry fee
Where it was (what state it was in, or something)
Top 16, with character main for each of the top 16
Link to tournament page or results page
(I made it top 16. If there is less, just post them all with the format above. No listing under 13 will be accepted.)
We would first need someone to keep log on this thread, with this information. I do not want to Force it on Ankoku if this proposal passes through, unless he is willing to do it by his own free will.
A note of change: This thread needs to gather information other than just people posting results in it. This needs to be done because it can skew the information and make it inaccurate. We need every possible tournament logged with correct results from it at all times. The way we can do this is 2-4 people from each region can search and post all the tournament results possible. The people who are doing this need to be trust worthy and handpicked so nothing is left out. (I know it is a lot of work, but people can possibly mess up information, this of course, does not limit normal players from posting their own results)
When all of the information is gathered, we can then determine if Metaknight is ban worthy or not. At this time, we can possibly come up with a definition of what meets the requirements for a ban in brawl, and stick to it.
I hope that this is clear, understandable, and reasonable.
OS, if you agree with this, please post this in the BBR and attempt to get their approval with it. If the BBR will accept this proposal, it will be a lot easier to manage everything. Changes can be made too, so try to compromise if anything xD. (Only if it is reasonable and has a good explanation for doing so, but of course, I do not have to tell you this. Your OS, you know already lol.)
Detailed explanation of proposal: Temp ban of metaknight.
We will divide the year into two sections, a six-month interval in length for each section. One interval will have Metaknight banned from tourney play, and another interval with Metaknight in play. The reason why it is a six-month interval are for these reasons:
1) If the time interval is shorter, player can simply wait out until the testing is finished. By making it 6 months of testing continuously , not only does that give us enough time to actually see a chance in the meta game, it also disables players from just simply “waiting until it’s done”
2) The time interval gives enough time for a single person to enter enough tourneys where the game can drastically change. It was suggested that if we can do it for 3-4 months instead of six months, and it was turned down because of this reason:
On average, a tournament is held on Saturdays. There are 4 Saturdays in a month. By doing this calculation for six months, a single person can have an approximate total of 24 tournament entries. Now, if you want to do fewer months, you subtract 4 for every month you want eliminated, so if you want the interval to be 3 months, you take 24-12 and you only get 12 tournaments, and for 4 months, you only get 16. There is a huge mathematical difference in these numbers. By taking off months, you limit the information that can be gained, the extra time to properly learn a high potential of a character, and the possible growth of a character overall.
3) By making it ½ a year of testing, you allow players to gain more experience with other characters, and by doing that, they can possibly place better in tournaments. This will help the results overall for logging them.
How to log the information
Each month we make a thread on Smashboards in the tactical section (or one major thread with all the information gathered) and we take information that happen within each month and break it down into sections:
1) Character Usage
2) Overall attendance
3) Character Development
4) player reactions in terms of how he feels at the state where he/she is in about how the meta game
The reason why I have this combination of choice is because it splits factual hand-put data, with opinion based emotion about a situation. The meta game is not just based on the characters, but how the players feel toward the characters. Within the 6 months, we can take note on how a character has grown or has been crippled, and add that to overall data. In 6 months, we can take the overall character usage and attendance, and see how a character grew within that time. By doing this monthly, we can compare data over time as well as a persons’ opinion about this situation, and see how it changes within the 6 months.
We will keep track of placings by how Ankoku does it. Here are the requirements:
MAKE SURE IT WAS AT LEAST 13 PEOPLE IN THE TOURNAMENT
Number of entrants
Entry fee
Where it was (what state it was in, or something)
Top 16, with character main for each of the top 16
Link to tournament page or results page
(I made it top 16. If there is less, just post them all with the format above. No listing under 13 will be accepted.)
We would first need someone to keep log on this thread, with this information. I do not want to Force it on Ankoku if this proposal passes through, unless he is willing to do it by his own free will.
A note of change: This thread needs to gather information other than just people posting results in it. This needs to be done because it can skew the information and make it inaccurate. We need every possible tournament logged with correct results from it at all times. The way we can do this is 2-4 people from each region can search and post all the tournament results possible. The people who are doing this need to be trust worthy and handpicked so nothing is left out. (I know it is a lot of work, but people can possibly mess up information, this of course, does not limit normal players from posting their own results)
When all of the information is gathered, we can then determine if Metaknight is ban worthy or not. At this time, we can possibly come up with a definition of what meets the requirements for a ban in brawl, and stick to it.
I hope that this is clear, understandable, and reasonable.
OS, if you agree with this, please post this in the BBR and attempt to get their approval with it. If the BBR will accept this proposal, it will be a lot easier to manage everything. Changes can be made too, so try to compromise if anything xD. (Only if it is reasonable and has a good explanation for doing so, but of course, I do not have to tell you this. Your OS, you know already lol.)
I like your idea above but there is one question i wish to ask. Is meta knight mass overcentralisation A U.S specific problem or does it count for the entire world? i'm not quite up on the centralisation of characters in other countries or world wide so is the Mgay problem US specific orrrrr?
clowsui
Smash Legend
@PMC66: Currently the European Brawl Community is forming their own tournament ruleset as is the tradition. It would have to be argued among the Europeans themselves as to whether a temp ban was necessary, but the U.S. ban would certainly set a precedent.
Trillest
Smash Ace
Also @PMC66: I cant speak for all of Australia but i know for a fact in Western Australia Mk is the most relied upon character easily with the majority of tournament usage. Mgay has also broughts his other friends ofcourse Mr Scrooge, Sir Plank, General TimeOut and also Murderous Rage
Red Arremer
Smash Legend
If Meta Knight would get banned by the BBR, the chances of European tournaments banning him are very small.
He's not that much of a problem over here, although some European tournaments probably would follow suit.
He's not that much of a problem over here, although some European tournaments probably would follow suit.
☆_Mutha-Foxin GangstaKirby_☆
Banned via Warnings
Utah will never ever ban mk. Ever.
no matter how good your arguements are
no matter how good your arguements are
iRJi
Smash Champion
- Joined
- Sep 9, 2008
- Messages
- 2,423
BlueTerrorist
Smash Ace
Wait what?
Two years and you still haven't found a way to beat MK?
Either:
A) Get better
B) Metagame needs a revamp, obviously we shouldn't play this way (Least likely).
C) Ban the freak already!!!!!! This has gone on long enough.
Choose wisely, the future of Brawl is in your hands.
Two years and you still haven't found a way to beat MK?
Either:
A) Get better
B) Metagame needs a revamp, obviously we shouldn't play this way (Least likely).
C) Ban the freak already!!!!!! This has gone on long enough.
Choose wisely, the future of Brawl is in your hands.
☆_Mutha-Foxin GangstaKirby_☆
Banned via Warnings
OS being overswarm?
D) stop sucking **** at smash and bawwwing over mks massive cawk size
BlueTerrorist
Smash Ace
This honestly should be A) lol.
☆_Mutha-Foxin GangstaKirby_☆
Banned via Warnings
iRJi
Smash Champion
- Joined
- Sep 9, 2008
- Messages
- 2,423
You know, for someone who really just comes in here ranting talking nonsense he doesn't even understand works my nerve. For one, i have little issue against MK, but chose to be on pro ban side for reasons you obviously missed because you didn't read the rest of the thread. Accusing me for something completely wrong is your ignorance getting the better of you. Stop being a child, and go about things logically. Even if I succeed or not, at least i put my best effort into it lol. I don't cry and get upset like a 12 year old who just shouts out what they want to get attention. You cool guy, real cool. Finish public speaking class, take a few lessons in debating. It will benefit you. The only thing you are doing is looking like a fool.
PS: Yes, OS = Overswarm.
PS: Yes, OS = Overswarm.
Ok, cool =]
☆_Mutha-Foxin GangstaKirby_☆
Banned via Warnings
1st of all... you give RJ's a bad name, real RJ's like me would be like mk shouldnt be banned cuz i aint no ***** i can handle that mofo wit ease jus sayin you mus b like 13 or 14 to think you shud be talkin down on poor lil 12 year olds like that or some **** \O_o/
all i said is that mk will never be banned here and you explode, you obv have ragequit/mk issues
iRJi
Smash Champion
- Joined
- Sep 9, 2008
- Messages
- 2,423
Never done so, but thanks xP
Delvro
Smash Ace
Whenever someone says "get better", they're talking to all the MKs who AREN'T taking top spots in tournaments.
☆_Mutha-Foxin GangstaKirby_☆
Banned via Warnings
Sense, this post makes none
Mk's arent 1st place dominant in nationals at all
☆_Mutha-Foxin GangstaKirby_☆
Banned via Warnings
etecoon youmad.
seriously though utah isnt gonna ban mk, people jus trippin cuz they suck at smash
seriously though utah isnt gonna ban mk, people jus trippin cuz they suck at smash
NintendoMan07
Smash Journeyman
Not really going to debate anything (it isn't my place), just going to ask a quick question that's bothered me:
If all competitive Smash cares about is the top (ADHD, M2K, Ally, etc.), then what's the BBR got to do with this?
I've followed this for awhile, and that's the only thing that I haven't really had settled in my mind. Of course I could be misinterpreting things, but that's all the better a reason to ask a question, isn't it?
If all competitive Smash cares about is the top (ADHD, M2K, Ally, etc.), then what's the BBR got to do with this?
I've followed this for awhile, and that's the only thing that I haven't really had settled in my mind. Of course I could be misinterpreting things, but that's all the better a reason to ask a question, isn't it?
solecalibur
Smash Master
Both sides have them
Nanaki
Smash Lord
Yeah, driving in snow sucks. I did that today, too.
I want to see Crow!'s stuff, mostly to see if he's going about looking at the data properly.
Care to give a possible explanation as to why he's not a big problem there?
Oh, GAWD NOOOO!!! NOT UTAH!!!
.../whocares
Red Arremer
Smash Legend
Because he's not as dominant as in the US, and neither takes all top placings (although most Top MKs here are taking top placings, don't worry. =P).
RJ I think if you're doing a temp ban you should only use larger tournaments. A 13 person cutoff seems too low and can potentially skew the data alot. I would try to limit the data to large regionals/nationals or at least major locals but that's just me.
Also you should have a REALLY clear criteria defining the aspects you're looking at. Character development is a bit vague as is "how people feel"/
Just a little advice. I like the idea of a temp ban thouhj.
Also you should have a REALLY clear criteria defining the aspects you're looking at. Character development is a bit vague as is "how people feel"/
Just a little advice. I like the idea of a temp ban thouhj.
iRJi
Smash Champion
- Joined
- Sep 9, 2008
- Messages
- 2,423
Thanks. The reason why I am using all tourneys is because of reason 1 of what I posted from it. People can simply just skip the tourney, and because of that it won't work. You could be right about the 13 limit being low, and because of that I stated that it has room for changes over time. OS took it to the BBR. We can just wait and see what they come up with for that.
gallax
Smash Hero
NM this post. anther uses tricksies on us.
Kuraudo
4Aerith
The only good thing to come outta Utah is X and his home boys. osna--
So about that Meta Knight...
☆_Mutha-Foxin GangstaKirby_☆
Banned via Warnings
just texted chris (__X__) he said mk pro ban is full of scrubs that dont understand smash and mk isnt ban worthy at all
lol@namedroppingcuzyouneverheardofyazwhobeats__X__consistantlyintourneyandheisalsoautahplayer
lol@namedroppingcuzyouneverheardofyazwhobeats__X__consistantlyintourneyandheisalsoautahplayer
Kuraudo
4Aerith
lol, I know everything that X has been doing.
He's an inspiration as a Sonic user. Really cool guy.
/is pro ban but whateverz
hope I'm not a scrub and that I understand smash D:
☆_Mutha-Foxin GangstaKirby_☆
Banned via Warnings
OS just called and says dont ban mk and that he is *** O;
This thread is back open?
Sweet. Now I have something to do in my boring morning classes again.
Shameless plug:
http://p2w.x10hosting.com/Podcast/P2W_Podcast_12_To_Ban_Or_Not_To_Ban_Part_1.mp3
http://p2w.x10hosting.com/Podcast/P2W_Podcast_12_To_Ban_Or_Not_To_Ban_Part_2.mp3
This is what put me on the fence as far as banning is concerned. That, and I just sold my Wii.
Sweet. Now I have something to do in my boring morning classes again.
Shameless plug:
http://p2w.x10hosting.com/Podcast/P2W_Podcast_12_To_Ban_Or_Not_To_Ban_Part_1.mp3
http://p2w.x10hosting.com/Podcast/P2W_Podcast_12_To_Ban_Or_Not_To_Ban_Part_2.mp3
This is what put me on the fence as far as banning is concerned. That, and I just sold my Wii.
Overswarm
is laughing at you
- Joined
- May 4, 2005
- Messages
- 21,181
*attempts to bring some relevant discussion*
My reason personally has never been that he's not dominant (though I always did believe he did have a few 50-50 matchups), but that he's not broken. I feel that we should only ban something if its broken. You seem to be giving out a lot of relevant facts, but no general theory to come to the conclusion of banning MK. Are you saying dominant characters should be banned? I hope not. Are you saying that having no disadvantageous matchups means a character should be banned? I guess I'm sort of asking for your criteria, I suppose, and I apologize if you've already put one up, but I'm too lazy to search.
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