Official Metaknight Discussion

[judge!]

You do realize that not everyone can live like you, right? Everyone has their own IRL life that interferes with their Smash life, some more than others.

......thats what comp is. the people that earned it desearve it.

 

[demonictoonlink]

What? That wasn't a rage post at all. The only angry part I got from it was the "quit crying god", though I'm not sure I understand all of the post (I think I agree, but parts are kinda hard to make out.)

 

[judge!]

interesting thoughts...

your view on ice climbers is pretty one sided and wrong, but this seems like a rage post so

o this is not a rage post....thats just how i talk kinda like white trash lmao.
but its all friendlyness lol

 

[judge!]

What? That wasn't a rage post at all. The only angry part I got from it was the "quit crying god", though I'm not sure I understand all of the post (I think I agree, but parts are kinda hard to make out.)

yea im an aweful typer lol....hey i warned u guys lmao. but u ca at least grasp the basic concept

 

[boss8]

m2k the best mk in the midwest xD

 

[TwentyTwo]

What about the ones that do bust thier *** off? What excuse you have for them? There are alot of top players that play lots of characters busting thier butts off. So it's pretty much BS to even go and say this. Meta still takes over.

To clearly say people dont try hard enough is stupid. You drive 2 hours to play people. You pwn us in trying hard and think out the box. We should all be like you. Also how the heck you would know people are not trying? Because they have so much trouble with the best character in the game?

Seriously, why is it that the people that use meta spit out crap like this man? Oh wait, nevermind. Silly me, I know why...............

I'm guessing, and I don't want to speak for Havok, but he probably means bust your *** with a character who can win against MK. Any character can legitimately win, but some chances are clearly better than others, and with this, I'd say some characters would have to discover new **** to give them a chance. You said it yourself, characters are tools. If they have a gun, and you have a sharp stick, you're going to have to work really ****ing hard to win that fight.

 

[adumbrodeus]

Yay pointless assumptions! Why do people assume the brawl playing world cares about the effect MK has on marth? You dont see any other character mainers complaining despite getting beaten by MK all the same

Everybody cares about marth mains cause we're top of the sexieness tier.




Seriously though, everyone complains about MK.

 

[demonictoonlink]

Judge is a pretty cool guy...I don't feel like finishing this, but you all get it.

 

[judge!]

get outta here boss i aint chagein my sig lol

 

[Gnes]

m2k the best mk in the midwest xD

u trollin


well judge diddy beats icies and actually has some safe options against them...so i cant really sympathize on u about them....but i did agree with some of the things u said...the attendance issue being one of those.

 

[Dark.Pch]

I'm guessing, and I don't want to speak for Havok, but he probably means bust your *** with a character who can win against MK. Any character can legitimately win, but some chances are clearly better than others, and with this, I'd say some characters would have to discover new **** to give them a chance. You said it yourself, characters are tools. If they have a gun, and you have a sharp stick, you're going to have to work really ****ing hard to win that fight.

Characters tools as in; Know about your character your character fully and what they can do. But the character is not gonna move on thier own. you control them. So it is up to the player using w/e character it is to use all that they know to good use. How good of a use will they use them? Depends on how smart the Player is.

And I doubt that is what He was getting at. cause there is about three characters now that go even with M2K now? So whats up with everyone else? To say something like to is just BS to me.

Don't BS characters you play meta players. I don't think he should be banned but at the same time I am not gonna BS the character for what he is.

 

[judge!]

u trollin


well judge diddy beats icies and actually has some safe options against them...so i cant really sympathize on u about them....but i did agree with some of the things u said...the attendance issue being one of those.

<3

yea i didnt feel like posting diddy but yea its one hell of a crazy match ( super fun). i guess its all who gets that mometum can win it

 

[KT Kasrani]

how about we jus ban meta. then end of convo

 

[KT Kasrani]

or how about we dont ban him and end of convo.

pick one.

 

[Kaffei]

or how about we dont ban him and end of convo.

pick one.

Don't ban him

 

[ANTi_]

I co-sign Judge's post.

lol @ the attendance of the national tournaments if MK gets banned.

 

[KT Kasrani]

somebody host a tourny where mk, snake, and IC are banned.

then we can see how everything works out.

 

[WindMajor]

or how about we dont ban him and end of convo.

pick one.

Ban him in Kirby's Air Ride.

 

[Megavitamins]

Yay pointless assumptions! Why do people assume the brawl playing world cares about the effect MK has on marth? You dont see any other character mainers complaining despite getting beaten by MK all the same

Umm... Somebody made a post saying nobody would become alot better if MK was banned, so I brought up Marth, my main, as a very good example.

I'm not complaining, I clearly stated I'm anti ban.

Idiot.

 

[Tommy_G]

Gnes and ADHD has proven diddy has that ability to shut down MK multiple times.
Everyone needs to get over the MK ban-wagon
The main issue is that no one really knows good ban criteria since no one knows the game well enough.

But still, banning a character is serious and would have some butterfly effect consequences.
Each MK player will be discouraged with this ban coming out.
Think about this, all of the players who put all of their time and effort into learning MK will leave smash.
This argument should have never gotten this much hype.
Ehhhh, I can't believe you ******* got me an infraction for this stupid senseless argument.
Really now...stop arguing about a game that has no real life value.

lolz

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Hey guys, MK is clearly a problem to our scene. Just look at all of this.

You know what doesn't solve the problem? Debating. He isn't going to be banned and IMO should not be banned.

You know what does solve the problem? Working on this MU. I'm talking serious work here. Every character board gets a sticked "How to Fight Metaknight" thread. We make videos on how to punish and counter every thing he has because, like everything else in this game, everything MK can do can be punished.

We have a character on our hands that's quick to pick up with no counters. Ban him? Really? What a weak community. Maybe if he was the only one that never gets MU *****...Let's work at this rather than get rid of him, alright?

Where going to have major bias around this if people make topics about how to fight him.

Some people are going to underplay MU's to make MK sound easier than he is while others are going to overplay it to make MK sound unstoppable.

 

[WindMajor]

......thats what comp is. the people that earned it desearve it.

"Too bad that you can't be all cool and travel for 2 hours every weekend to practice like I can because an earthquake theoretically struck your house. If you can't do things like I can, then you don't deserve to win."

>_>

 

[Tien2500]

"Too bad that you can't be all cool and travel for 2 hours every weekend to practice like I can because an earthquake theoretically struck your house. If you can't do things like I can, then you don't deserve to win."

>_>

Whoever devotes more time should probably have a better chance to win. Obviously life constraints may prevent some people from spending as much time as others but that's just how things are.

 

[Snakeee]

Snakeee. I APPROVE of that avatar pic of Clare.

Thanks, she's one of my favorite characters out of....everything in the world

 

[•Col•]

But still, banning a character is serious and would have some butterfly effect consequences.
Each MK player will be discouraged with this ban coming out.
Think about this, all of the players who put all of their time and effort into learning MK will leave smash.

Not EVERY MK player would quit. A lot of people who play MK actually use him as a secondary. People who just play the game for money or "play to win" will just move on to the next best character. People who truly enjoy the game will also just move to another character...

I would feel bad for the people who chose Metaknight simply because they liked him, and not because of his tier list position though.... :/ It really isn't fair to them.

 

[Pete278]

Unfortunately, if the ban is deemed necessary after a temp ban testing, then you can't afford to be fair towards the people who like MK was a character.

I know everyone in this thread loves their SF examples, but everyone of them is Akuma. Come on guys, at least mention Gill a bit. But this time, I have a softban everyone's forgotten about: Old Sagat in ST. Keep in mind that softbans in Japan may as well be hardbans, so don't comment on that part. Old Sagat was banned purely because he made characters unviable. He wasn't in the best game, he wasn't the easiest to play, he just made too many characters impossible to use competitively. Honda, Zangief, T.Hawk all dropped off the map because of him (no matter how insignificant the numbers of Sagat mains were). Remember, this is Japan, a country who's fighting game community prides themselves on sticking with their main and going through hard matchups, rather than around. I'm aware Metaknight isn't nearly as extreme as Old Sagat in making characters unviable, but its still a point to consider that many are forgetting: you don't need to be broken to be banned.

 

[MarKO X]

To hinder your point:
O.Sagat was the best in the game under Akuma.
USA didn't softban him at all.

To go with your point:
Under Japan's same philosophy with not cp'ing, Sagat isn't softbanned in Sf4.

 

[Pete278]

Sagat wasn't the best in ST, even without Akuma. At the point he was banned, it was considered that Dhalsim was the best and Sagat doesn't do nearly as well at shutting down those character in SF4. Sorry, but you actually didn't counter my arguments at all.

EDIT: To clarify, I'm certainly not saying he was bad, but he wasn't the best. Second under Sim iirc.

 

[HeroMystic]

Whoever devotes more time should probably have a better chance to win. Obviously life constraints may prevent some people from spending as much time as others but that's just how things are.

This.

The people with more time to practice will get better earnings, bottomline. There's honestly no exceptions besides natural talent.

 

[itsthebigfoot]

can we stop doing the ST examples?

seriously, sagat was soft banned in japan because he limited a lot of other characters, not because of being broken. this ban also came several years after the release, when the japanese basically said "wanna not use sagat to spice things up?" "sure".

ST Akuma on the other hand was far more broken than mk will ever be. now some of you are being *******es right now and are thinking "hurr-durr mk is teh broke too" but even if you believe he does break the game, it is not even close to ST akuma. to put it in perspective, Akuma was banned at release, fairly unanimously, and to this day doesn't even have an arguably close matchup. CLOSE matchup, like 60-40 in akuma's favor, nobody in their right mind will say that mks matchups are that imbalanced, as players like MikeHAZE, Larry, Ally and ADHD have proven that mk has a few even, close, or even bad matchups.

TL;DR stfu about super turbo, none of you play it, none of you actually know what you're talking about when it comes to that game and both examples of characters banned in that game where banned from separate reasons than the ones that apply to mk. (akuma being on a whole nother level and sagat being closer a ban on ddd 8 years down the road)

 

[etecoon]

Minty! Didn't know you were anti-ban too, I'm not the only anti-ban marth main!

dunno if that's changed but both neo and mike voted against the ban last time around, and no one has more to gain from MK being banned than marth mains. kinda shows how pathetic random pro banners are, they don't even have a real reason for wanting MK banned compared to some people that don't and would greatly benefit from it.

 

[solecalibur]

kinda shows how pathetic random pro banners are, .

You main meta according to your character avatar way to contradict yourself

 

[etecoon]

someone needs a dictionary

 

[solecalibur]

are you still ignoring the fact?

 

[adumbrodeus]

dunno if that's changed but both neo and mike voted against the ban last time around, and no one has more to gain from MK being banned than marth mains. kinda shows how pathetic random pro banners are, they don't even have a real reason for wanting MK banned compared to some people that don't and would greatly benefit from it.

Well, I can't deny that I want MK banned, but I concentrate on the process, my statements have always been a matter of "criteria criteria", I have yet to see evidence that he satisfies either my criteria that that a direct relevant criteria exists.


I guess the difference between "I would like" and "I think the proper course is".


Regardless, it depends on the person, I wouldn't say anyone who has devoted a substantial amount of time working on understanding the situation is pathetic. The randoms who have literally no argument and distract from the actual reasonable discussion, they're pathetic.

You main meta according to your character avatar way to contradict yourself

That was a complete non sequitur, nothing he said would be contradicted by maining meta.

 

[itsthebigfoot]

are you still ignoring the fact?

you still don't get it? he isn't contradicting himself. His point was that marth mains, who have the most to gain from mk being banned, are anti-ban, which makes the current pro-banners stance weaker. him playing mk doesn't change this and your posts have provided no evidence to the contrary. making petty personal attacks =/= debating.

 

[etecoon]

Regardless, it depends on the person, I wouldn't say anyone who has devoted a substantial amount of time working on understanding the situation is pathetic. The randoms who have literally no argument and distract from the actual reasonable discussion, they're pathetic.

these are the people I was talking about. I respect a lot of the pro ban people, I think overswarm has consistently made the best arguments in this topic even if I disagree with him(although I'm more on the fence than anything). I just find it funny that the two best players of the character that has the most to gain from an MK ban(IMO anyway) don't agree with the ban and yet there are sooo many people who won't benefit at all that want him gone.

you still don't get it? he isn't contradicting himself. His point was that marth mains, who have the most to gain from mk being banned, are anti-ban, which makes the current pro-banners stance weaker. him playing mk doesn't change this and your posts have provided no evidence to the contrary. making petty personal attacks =/= debating.

this, although I wouldn't generalize and say that marth mains are all anti-ban. probably more overall pro ban actually. but the most competitive ones, that could be making more money if MK was banned? lol

although as I said, that's as of the last ban topic which was some time ago. not sure where everyone stands now, I wouldn't really say it means anything, I just found it amusing

 

[itsthebigfoot]

I guess that was badly worded. I didn't mean marth mains (all of them), I meant marth mains (plural), those two being very well known marth mains as well.

 

[solecalibur]

you still don't get it? he isn't contradicting himself. His point was that marth mains, who have the most to gain from mk being banned, are anti-ban, which makes the current pro-banners stance weaker. him playing mk doesn't change this and your posts have provided no evidence to the contrary. making petty personal attacks =/= debating.

That was a complete non sequitur, nothing he said would be contradicted by maining meta.

If your anti-ban and you play metaknight wouldn't that mean your trying to keep him in the game so you can keep using him?

 

[etecoon]

If your anti-ban and you play metaknight wouldn't that mean your trying to keep him in the game so you can keep using him?

again, you really need to work on your vocab