Official Metaknight Discussion

[ShadowLink84]

Actually, i dont give a ****.

And if it isn't meant to be competitive why are you guys banning ****?

And wasn't the last MK ban poll supposed to be the last one.

*points to items and stages that are banned*

If you dont care, dont post dude.

 

[Gnes]

Havent read this entire thread, but if mk has the ability to plank, scrooge, or watever way stall out a game and theres no way to enforce it then yes maybe he does need a ban. I don't care if you make a million rules to prevent this for one character, but it will never get done.

Doesnt matter to me if mk stays or not, but this is the truth especially with mk players who play MUs they don't understand and want to win. Even tho i beat 90% of the mks out there it still feels like utter crap when they stall you out with every different option of stalling at their disposal.

^^^^

legit stuff...i wanted to say this a while back, but was lazy hahaha

 

[Eddie G]

And if it isn't meant to be competitive why are you guys banning ****?

Hmm...I'm curious since you said that. What is your stance on items being banned from play if the game isn't meant to be competitive? Y'know, considering you live in arguably the most ban-happy region in the nation.

 

[ANTi_]

Hmm...I'm curious since you said that. What is your stance on items being banned from play if the game isn't meant to be competitive? Y'know, considering you live in arguably the most ban-happy region in the nation.

Stages/Items are totally different than banning a character.

come on now son.

 

[FearTheMateria]

My stance is on the Anti-Ban.

The ever-so-invincible MK. Arguements to rid him of the scene are viable. He has lagless options, amazing recovery, and the few ATs he has benefits his game greatly. His match-ups are 50:50 at worst and He is overpicked.

However, what people fail to realize is that Meta Knight is winnable; not invincible. I thought the most hilarious arguement was that of which he was compared to Akuma. I play Ken on all SF games and eat Akumas for breakfast. Its not the character, its the skill. Just because SWF has not had a post on a way to win doesn't mean its not there! Perhaps a more campy game can conquer our favorite sword weilding maniac. Maybe a stronger counter game hands you the advantage. YOU CAN BEAT MK WITH MORE THAN JUST SNAKE!

Do not forget, there are also characters with freakishly long CGs and locks that prevent movement from certain cast members. Yet CGs and locks are not banned. Why? Because therte are strategies to get around them. Someone had an epiphany before hacking away at their Wii console in frustration on how to get around it.

The most important thing to know here; It's just a game, the point is to have fun. I liked MK long before he was considered broken. He was the first character I picked and I keep him as a secondary. When an MK beats me at a tourney, I just suck it up and practice. If you can't stand losing to MKs at tourneys, go find a new competetive hobby! There's plenty of other things to do besides play smash.

One more thing:
A vast number of tourney players use MK correct?
Think of how that will effect the community.
Most MK haters have either left by now or just CP Snake on FD or just post here whining all day long. If you take MK out of the frame, you will lose alot of the people who main him. If I was a true MK main, I would hate to have to learn an entirely new character to compete with. That's just me though...

 

[Eddie G]

Stages/Items are totally different than banning a character.

come on now son.

But...if the game "isn't meant to be competitive" then why would the difference even matter?

Banning items was to promote competitive play, or at the very least that's what the intention was, which contradicts what you just said about the game "not being meant for competition".

You said it bro, not me.

 

[MarKO X]

Akuma is only broken in select SF games.

If anything, Ken is more broken than Akuma.

 

[judge!]

good thing iv picked up every top tier recently lol

 

[rPSIvysaur]

My stance is on the Pro-Ban.

The ever-so-invincible MK. Arguements to rid him of the scene are viable. He has lagless options, amazing recovery, and the few ATs he has benefits his game greatly. His match-ups are 50:50 at worst and He is overpicked.

However, what people fail to realize is that Meta Knight is winnable; not invincible. I thought the most hilarious arguement was that of which he was compared to Akuma. I play Ken on all SF games and eat Akumas for breakfast. Its not the character, its the skill. Just because SWF has not had a post on a way to win doesn't mean its not there! Perhaps a more campy game can conquer our favorite sword weilding maniac. Maybe a stronger counter game hands you the advantage. YOU CAN'T BEAT MK WITH MORE THAN JUST SNAKE AND DIDDY!

Do not forget, there are also characters with freakishly long CGs and locks that prevent movement from certain cast members. Yet CGs and locks are not banned. Why? Because there are strategies to get around them. Someone had an epiphany before hacking away at their Wii console in frustration on how to get around it. there is scrooging.

The most important thing to know here; It's just a game, the point is to have fun. I liked Game and Watch long before he was considered crap against MK. He was the first character I picked and I keep him as a secondary. When an MK beats me at a tourney, I just find it bologne. If you can't stand losing to MKs at tourneys, you're in company!

One more thing:
A vast number of tourney players don't want to use MK correct?
Think of how that will effect the community.
Most Game and Watch users have either left by now or just CP Snake on FD or just post here telling the truth all day long. If you take MK out of the frame, you will gain alot of people who don't main him. If I was a true Game and Watch main, I would hate to have to learn an entirely new character to compete with. That's just me though...

 

[Aberu]

Sure thing!

Ankoku, Mr. Wizard pushed an items on tourney at Evo 2k8 and ruined brawl's first national. He is the most outspoken voice against smash being a fighting game, and he is a powertripping maniac.

 

[ANTi_]

But...if the game "isn't meant to be competitive" then why would the difference even matter?

Banning items was to promote competitive play, or at the very least that's what the intention was, which contradicts what you just said about the game "not being meant for competition".

You said it bro, not me.

I never said it wasn't meant to be competitive i was making a statement.

 

[Dark.Pch]

good thing iv picked up every top tier recently lol

Ha ha ha! Meta Mains already living in fear.

 

[adumbrodeus]

That's the problem, Omni's statistics aren't accounting for population AT ALL. They're accounting for a fixed, bogus population that's hand-picked. Hell, so are Overswarm's. Taking top 8 for no reason other than Ankoku's thread uses it doesn't account for population doesn't mean you've sampled randomly, it means you're using a cooked-up population that serves your purposes.

You don't need to teach me statistics, I analyze ridiculous amounts of data every day for my job.

Perhaps I didn't make myself clear enough:

Omni's method of determining 'average player ranking' is bogus. The population is massively skewed in a ridiculous manner.

OS's method of using Ankoku's data to determine character dominance is skewed because we're only taking top 8, not an overall sampling of each tournament's entrants and using a random sampling. Main reason here is nobody gives a flying **** about anything but top 8 for a thread like Ankoku's.

Notice that neither of them are an adequate means of rooting out the 'overpopulation' problem. OS's holds more weight because it's slightly closer to being a truly random sampling.

Of course, but the point I'm making is that literally all the data is almost pointless for determining character power in the metagame.


Which is really what I'm getting at, and I think you would agree with me on that.

 

[ANTi_]

Ha ha ha! Meta Mains already living in fear.

LOL and when MK is gone you guys are going to ***** about losing to Snake/IC's/Falco/Diddy.

 

[demonictoonlink]

Hey guys, MK is clearly a problem to our scene. Just look at all of this.

You know what doesn't solve the problem? Debating. He isn't going to be banned and IMO should not be banned.

You know what does solve the problem? Working on this MU. I'm talking serious work here. Every character board gets a sticked "How to Fight Metaknight" thread. We make videos on how to punish and counter every thing he has because, like everything else in this game, everything MK can do can be punished.

We have a character on our hands that's quick to pick up with no counters. Ban him? Really? What a weak community. Maybe if he was the only one that never gets MU *****...Let's work at this rather than get rid of him, alright?

 

[Dark.Pch]

LOL and when MK is gone you guys are going to ***** about losing to Snake/IC's/Falco/Diddy.

Don't speak for me dude. I have yet to even ***** about meta. Yet alone these panzy *** characters you listed. And you think I would with the character I play. Shows how much balls one actually has. Don't bring this my way.

And incase you don't know, I dont think he should be banned. So yea............quote someone else and say this.

 

[Palpi]

If only it were that easy, demonictoonlink.

 

[MarKO X]

You know what does solve the problem? Working on this MU. I'm talking serious work here. Every character board gets a sticked "How to Fight Metaknight" thread. We make videos on how to punish and counter every thing he has because, like everything else in this game, everything MK can do can be punished.

because, you know, how to fight the character that you are going to see the most never gets discussed.

to be fair though, I like the idea of action over debate. but personally, if you want him banned, you gotta play MK with no remorse, bend the rules as far as you can, and show that MK is (or is not) banworthy.

 

[Eddie G]

I never said it wasn't meant to be competitive i was making a statement.

...Nevermind.

 

[Tien2500]

Hey guys, MK is clearly a problem to our scene. Just look at all of this.

You know what doesn't solve the problem? Debating. He isn't going to be banned and IMO should not be banned.

You know what does solve the problem? Working on this MU. I'm talking serious work here. Every character board gets a sticked "How to Fight Metaknight" thread. We make videos on how to punish and counter every thing he has because, like everything else in this game, everything MK can do can be punished.

We have a character on our hands that's quick to pick up with no counters. Ban him? Really? What a weak community. Maybe if he was the only one that never gets MU *****...Let's work at this rather than get rid of him, alright?

Without any major advances MK is always going to have the advantage. He's just frankly better than the rest. We know that he can be beaten and that isn't the argument. If MK was truly unbeatable he'd be banned by now. The argument for banning is overcentralization.

 

[demonictoonlink]

But that's just it. People need to acknowledge that MK isn't always going to have the advantage. Take MK vs Diddy on FD. Now this obviously won't occur in tourney due to banning, but it is a legitimate combination of character and stage to beat MK. There are other instances of this but that's not the point right now.

As to overcentralization, do people really think MK is why people play their characters? When we talk viable characters, we mean MK, Snake, Diddy, Wario, Falco, IC's, maybe Marth and DDD? With MK gone, these are the same characters that will flourish. Maybe ROB as well, but MK isn't what's keeping others down.

 

[WindMajor]

Hey guys, MK is clearly a problem to our scene. Just look at all of this.

You know what doesn't solve the problem? Debating. He isn't going to be banned and IMO should not be banned.

You know what does solve the problem? Working on this MU. I'm talking serious work here. Every character board gets a sticked "How to Fight Metaknight" thread. We make videos on how to punish and counter every thing he has because, like everything else in this game, everything MK can do can be punished.

We have a character on our hands that's quick to pick up with no counters. Ban him? Really? What a weak community. Maybe if he was the only one that never gets MU *****...Let's work at this rather than get rid of him, alright?

Or we could just use Metaknight.

 

[Megavitamins]

Actually, MK is the only reason that Marth isn't top tier, if MK wasn't in Brawl he would probably be much more viable.

Im anti-ban btw.

 

[Espy Rose]

But that's just it. People need to acknowledge that MK isn't always going to have the advantage.

Like Meta Knight has any bad matches. He only arguably has one or two possible match ups that are even, and that's only considering the limiting of planking and scrooging.

It's just easier if we all go Meta Knight and ditto this game to death.

 

[adumbrodeus]

Actually, MK is the only reason that Marth isn't top tier, if MK wasn't in Brawl he would probably be much more viable.

Im anti-ban btw.

Minty! Didn't know you were anti-ban too, I'm not the only anti-ban marth main!

 

[demonictoonlink]

Like Meta Knight has any bad matches. He only arguably has one or two possible match ups that are even, and that's only considering the limiting of planking and scrooging.

It's just easier if we all go Meta Knight and ditto this game to death.

If you really believe this, main MK.

Honestly, if all pro-ban people want MK banned they should just main him like OS. It isn't really proving much for him, but maybe it will for you?

So many pro-banners put MK on this ungodly pedestal. Hell, if I believed he was that great I would main him.

 

[MarKO X]

lol
i'll let someone else point it out

 

[Dark.Pch]

Or we could just use Metaknight.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q9mQW2tdyD4

 

[**Havok**]

People don't try hard enough? Are you serious with that statement dude?

And this is not about Players dude. Players are not in the game. Meta Knight is. Wether 70 % have played these people or not. The players don't just auto give these powers to characters. Meta could have done all this crap way before M2K or anyone else knew about it. M2K just found all this out spending more hours then anyone for a video game to find.

All I see is excuses from people who play meta To save thier character. When are people gonna understand that players are not in the game? You are giving all the tools you have with a character (character). Now it is up to you (the player) to use them based on how smart you are.

Yes. Not trying hard, its because the majority of people play absentmindedly. Or with a set pattern.

You have to think out of the box to produce any kind of results.

I drive approx 2 hrs+ EVERY weekend just to play people like tyrant/dsf/mikehaze/Dehf for about a year now. They think out of the box.

 

[Tien2500]

But that's just it. People need to acknowledge that MK isn't always going to have the advantage. Take MK vs Diddy on FD. Now this obviously won't occur in tourney due to banning, but it is a legitimate combination of character and stage to beat MK. There are other instances of this but that's not the point right now.

The only example you can actually think of is one that you admit won't happen in a tournament setting.

As to overcentralization, do people really think MK is why people play their characters? When we talk viable characters, we mean MK, Snake, Diddy, Wario, Falco, IC's, maybe Marth and DDD? With MK gone, these are the same characters that will flourish. Maybe ROB as well, but MK isn't what's keeping others down.

Marth would definitely be more viable. ROB should be as well. ZSS and Lucario are on the edge so they may move to viability depending on what characters fill the MK vacuum. Peach is mentioned a lot but its questionable how viably she is either way. Dedede would definitely be viable again. Pika and Olimar would have a better chance. Its hard to say how exactly the metagame would evolve.

Also the distribution of characters winning would be far different.

 

[judge!]

okok


serious post from me...please dont mind my typing my keys r sticky and broke lol.


ANYWAYS


Curretly my view is anti ban.

Ino i am a mk main. while i didnt always main him *bloohaha was my old tag* i find him to be the most enjoyable char to play. Thats why i mained him.

Now my other current stance is, why would you want to ban him? lets face some facts here.

1. if a ic is played near perfect there r nearly unstoppable due to there insane ground game. and the other chars with many jumps struggle to kill him. ROB cant outcamp ics. its impossable u may win a set...once they learn the matchup its over. Snake is the only char that could stand a decent chance and even so its not that big of an advantage for him. plus do we reallly want to see such a big snake increase since YOU GOD **** KNOW, the ic population is going to go crazy since there cg is not hard to learn (accept it ic mains) and THATS ALL U NEED TO KNOW TO BEAT 80% OF THE CAST WITH THEM.

2. ok so a few mks have ran the timer..what 4 times? lol, anyways
WHERE R U GOING WITH YOUR THEORY. So what a lot of you are saying is u want more CAMPY SNAKE,s sitting back tossing nades then haveing 99% of u go omg so gay i cant approach l 2 do something differant. Do u want diddy kongs just sitting there with a nana in there hand shooting there peanut at u all day waiting...camping. Do you want more falcos to sit there laser ad phantasem away. because quite honestly all any player has to do if your going by your timer rule is do these things and time out most players. but they dont. at least not yet

3. We can make rules to get rid of scrooging. You think only mk can do it?. think again several chars can do it to ceartin chars. The other night i timed out someone with jigglypuff,pit,wario. ENFORCE THE RULES. TO,s no offence get the **** real. if u didnt want some mks to not plank your the god **** to get off your coward *** and enforce your rule. The mk knows what he is doing and should get dq,d for it. so stop *****ing and say something. ****..make me a to ill ****ing do it lol.

4. Attendance will drop. Like m2k has stated its not really fair for people who put the effort into mk for them to be left in the dust. IDK where u guys go with its the char and not the player. last time i checked mk mains have quite insane 2ndarys but they clearly arnt as good as there MK because.....they put more time into him. Now why should we have to go back 8 monthes learn matchups. struggle because people r loosing to 3 mk players.

5. enjoy getting chain grabbed cause you know all the mks will switch on over to IC...o gonna go peach ok enjoy faceing d3..only takes an hour to learn that matchup =)

6. quit crying god.



edit. for most swearing i a post? lol

 

[Flayl]

Only MK players think outside the box.

 

[Dark.Pch]

Yes. Not trying hard, its because the majority of people play absentmindedly. Or with a set pattern.

You have to think out of the box to produce any kind of results.

I drive approx 2 hrs+ EVERY weekend just to play people like tyrant/dsf/mikehaze/Dehf for about a year now. They think out of the box.

What about the ones that do bust thier *** off? What excuse you have for them? There are alot of top players that play lots of characters busting thier butts off. So it's pretty much BS to even go and say this. Meta still takes over.

To clearly say people dont try hard enough is stupid. You drive 2 hours to play people. You pwn us in trying hard and think out the box. We should all be like you. Also how the heck you would know people are not trying? Because they have so much trouble with the best character in the game?

Seriously, why is it that the people that use meta spit out crap like this man? Oh wait, nevermind. Silly me, I know why...............

 

[Browny]

Actually, MK is the only reason that Marth isn't top tier, if MK wasn't in Brawl he would probably be much more viable.

Yay pointless assumptions! Why do people assume the brawl playing world cares about the effect MK has on marth? You dont see any other character mainers complaining despite getting beaten by MK all the same

 

[judge!]

Only MK players think outside the box.

cause we main him we know his flaws. pick him up as a 2ndary u will learn the matchup better. even a wario main in my region omniswell said. *while im playing my wario against a mk in tourey* judge is i had your mk knowledge ad matchup exp i would be unstoppable

 

[ANTi_]

MKCLAN4LyFe.

Why are we even fighting anymore

its like

50 Pro Ban
20 Anti Ban.

 

[Gnes]

okok


serious post from me...please dont mind my typing my keys r sticky and broke lol.


ANYWAYS


Curretly my view is anti ban.

Ino i am a mk main. while i didnt always main him *bloohaha was my old tag* i find him to be the most enjoyable char to play. Thats why i mained him.

Now my other current stance is, why would you want to ban him? lets face some facts here.

1. if a ic is played near perfect there r nearly unstoppable due to there insane ground game. and the other chars with many jumps struggle to kill him. ROB cant outcamp ics. its impossable u may win a set...once they learn the matchup its over. Snake is the only char that could stand a decent chance and even so its not that big of an advantage for him. plus do we reallly want to see such a big snake increase since YOU GOD **** KNOW, the ic population is going to go crazy since there cg is not hard to learn (accept it ic mains) and THATS ALL U NEED TO KNOW TO BEAT 80% OF THE CAST WITH THEM.

2. ok so a few mks have ran the timer..what 4 times? lol, anyways
WHERE R U GOING WITH YOUR THEORY. So what a lot of you are saying is u want more CAMPY SNAKE,s sitting back tossing nades then haveing 99% of u go omg so gay i cant approach l 2 do something differant. Do u want diddy kongs just sitting there with a nana in there hand shooting there peanut at u all day waiting...camping. Do you want more falcos to sit there laser ad phantasem away. because quite honestly all any player has to do if your going by your timer rule is do these things and time out most players. but they dont. at least not yet

3. We can make rules to get rid of scrooging. You think only mk can do it?. think again several chars can do it to ceartin chars. The other night i timed out someone with jigglypuff,pit,wario. ENFORCE THE RULES. TO,s no offence get the **** real. if u didnt want some mks to not plank your the god **** to get off your coward *** and enforce your rule. The mk knows what he is doing and should get dq,d for it. so stop *****ing and say something. ****..make me a to ill ****ing do it lol.

4. Attendance will drop. Like m2k has stated its not really fair for people who put the effort into mk for them to be left in the dust. IDK where u guys go with its the char and not the player. last time i checked mk mains have quite insane 2ndarys but they clearly arnt as good as there MK because.....they put more time into him. Now why should we have to go back 8 monthes learn matchups. struggle because people r loosing to 3 mk players.

5. enjoy getting chain grabbed cause you know all the mks will switch on over to IC...o gonna go peach ok enjoy faceing d3..only takes an hour to learn that matchup =)

6. quit crying god.



edit. for most swearing i a post? lol

interesting thoughts...

your view on ice climbers is pretty one sided and wrong, but this seems like a rage post so

 

[Tien2500]

Only MK players think outside the box.

MK just happens to attract the best and brightest players for no particular reason.

 

[judge!]

its more of a theory gnes. cause if they ever approach and can perfect the chain grabs there kinda unstoppable noone has just played that *gay* yet with them

 

[WindMajor]

Yes. Not trying hard, its because the majority of people play absentmindedly. Or with a set pattern.

You have to think out of the box to produce any kind of results.

I drive approx 2 hrs+ EVERY weekend just to play people like tyrant/dsf/mikehaze/Dehf for about a year now. They think out of the box.

You do realize that not everyone can live like you, right? Everyone has their own IRL life that interferes with their Smash life, some more than others.