Official Metaknight Discussion

[OverLade]

****it people start talking about frame data and reaction speed right after I go to bed.

A couple things Im gonna throw out. Keep in mind shadow could beat ADHD in his prime, so why say that Atomsk/Tyrant/Anti/DSF couldn't do so either. They've all clearly gotten better at the matchup and even if ADHD went back to being as good as he was, Shadow isn't BETTER than those other MKs.

Also Jason, not everyone plays like you. What you don't seem to realize is that you have top 3 reaction speed in the country. A lot of top MKs will simply take a better option. How is it that Ksizzle can beat Ally with the same frequency you do? MK has THAT MANY OPTIONS that skill starts to saturate because just keeping up with everything he can do is difficult for even the best players. The only way for a lot of people to beat top MKs is playing them for an extended amount of time and getting used to their specific habits (and even then they still have a huge pool of options to resort to).

And concerning reaction speed, the same way you have to predict to dashgrab after downtilt, you don't realize that most people CANT REACT TO THAT EITHER. Dtilt dashgrab is really fast. Nobody is going to buffer a spotdodge out of dtilt on reaction, they have to predict it. Even many of the fastest players still mess this up. This game isn't about what you CAN punish it's about what people in general can punish. I'm not saying there arent plenty of players who can and will spotdodge/mix it up with rolling but I'm saying the same assumptions for MK hold true against MK. Also what many MKs will do as a mixup is Dtilt then tornado. Why? Because it's perfectly ****ing safe and beats out the spotdodge. This is why people complain. MK has so many options and you HAVE to predict because even tornado comes out really fast and by then you already would've spotdodged.

You're spending this whole arguement assuming everyone has the same reaction speed that you do.

And concerning the Diddy falling frame tricks, pulling those off is even harder than punishing them, when MK has more options, like tornadoing your landing, shuttle looping you before you fair or airdodge. Nobody is gonna react to those things, thats why most people just airdodge/fair early and hope for the best. That's the kind of thing that's ENTIRELY prediction for most players.

felix lost to shadow but it was sorta close

he also beat seibrik in bracket, dont forget that

also Felix got wrecked by Jem last 2 tourneys in a row, just saying.

EDIT: also felix isn't "a lot worse than ADHD" many players at MLG sais he was approaching his level.

Seibrik is ****ing terrible against Diddy and somehow still took game one. He would've easily won the set if he had known the matchup.

 

[DMG]

Adum, even if the person rolls away, MK has a frame advantage. M2K said it like MK is somehow at a disadvantage for using Dtilt and the other person rolls lol.

 

[Turbo Ether]

Adum, even if the person rolls away, MK has a frame advantage. M2K said it like MK is somehow at a disadvantage for using Dtilt and the other person rolls lol.

Not only that, but the person will eventually run out of stage.

While we're on the subject of rolling, it's cool that MK also has the best forward roll in the game (no, not Lucario). Like it was really neccessary for him to have this too.

 

[adumbrodeus]

Adum, even if the person rolls away, MK has a frame advantage. M2K said it like MK is somehow at a disadvantage for using Dtilt and the other person rolls lol.

Did I suggest otherwise?

It's a 15 frame dtilt, hell yeah he's got a frame advantage.


I just want you to address his argument as opposed to... well not.

 

[etecoon]

MK has the fastest, it's invincibility rate is nothing special IIRC and it's range isn't either

it is pretty stupid what he can get behind you and **** you up for though lol

 

[Turbo Ether]

Banning strategies is cool, guys.

 

[Kitamerby]

I'm not dodging any question, you guys are talking about perfect play for computers, not for humans.

I thought you were a robot.

it's cool that MK also has the best forward roll in the game (no, not Lucario). Like it was really neccessary for him to have this too.

Lucario's roll is both longer than MKs and has a MUCH larger invincibility ratio. Meta Knight's forwards roll is a grand total of 1 frame total faster than Lucario's forwards roll. I don't believe that single frame makes up for the lack of invincibility frames or range enough to call his roll "The best."

 

[DMG]

Lucario has a better forward roll. MK is an actually good character who can threaten you from a roll.

Therefore, MK has a better roll.

 

[Judo777]

Heres what i want to know. MK's glide is so versatile how exactly do u define gliding under the stage? is it going anywhere under the stage at all or going all the way to the other side??? where do u draw the line on that.

Oh that's a great question Judo! Hopefully someone will answer it. Btw did i mention how hansom you are!

But seriously guys i think its worth defining if u are seriously considering this.

 

[Kitamerby]

Lucario has a better forward roll. MK is an actually good character who can threaten you from a roll.

Therefore, MK has a better roll.

That's not fair.

In that case, MK has a better Zair than Samus because his airdodge has an extra frame of invincibility and when the airdodge is over he's still Meta Knight.

 

[dj asakura]

Oh that's a great question Judo! Hopefully someone will answer it. Btw did i mention how hansom you are!

But seriously guys i think its worth defining if u are seriously considering this.

Well lets think about this. If you only glide halfway under the stage, you're likely to SD.

If you go to the other side and grab the ledge, you're stalling/planking/scrooging/beating your meat or whatever you wanna call it.

The only logical thing to do would be to ban gliding under the stage and grabbing a ledge, you'd have to land on the stage. M2K was talking about this a few pages back.

That's not fair.

In that case, MK has a better Zair than Samus because his airdodge has an extra frame of invincibility and when the airdodge is over he's still Meta Knight.

It's kinda fair because that analogy is correct.

 

[etecoon]

MK's zair da bess

 

[DMG]

Besides the fact that I was using Inui logic, yeah actually you could argue that his Zair is better cause once it is done, he remains MK and she remains Samus lol.

 

[Mew2King]

why the **** would anyone roll BEHIND mk

 

[B0NK]

Another quick question.....

Do platforms count as the stage in that scrooging ruling?

 

[DMG]

M2K who cares

the point is that IIRC against any member of the cast, even MK himself or Lucario, that MK can Dtilt them even slightly AFTER they start the roll, and have a frame advantage on them. If you Dtilt someone's shield, and they roll backwards as fast as possible, frame advantage still exists.

 

[Mew2King]

and my point is that if you are spamming down tilt on the opponent and they roll away, unless you KNOW when they are going to roll, you can't react to it and punish it

 

[DMG]

then I guess the real point is to learn the character, don't mindlessly use Dtilt, and **** them for being disadvantaged like that?

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

That's not fair.

In that case, MK has a better Zair than Samus because his airdodge has an extra frame of invincibility and when the airdodge is over he's still Meta Knight.

This quote=pure gold

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

then I guess the real point is to learn the character, don't mindlessly use Dtilt, and **** them for being disadvantaged like that?

Or you could just run forward when you see them leave shield and grab them, since rolling behind is suicide. I can do this and have done it, does that make me super human?

 

[EPsilon933]

GUYS! GUYS! You're all fighting the wrong war. barlw is a gay game. Make it not gay by adding Heavy Gravity and Reflect Status into the current ruleset.

People hate projectile camping such as: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QijsuAnngSY

People hate barlw's lack of comboes. Heavy Gravity makes characters more comboable. Falco has the same wieght as Pikachu in Melee and Falco is super comboable that Pikachu, who is not.

Also, this makes MetaKnight cross the border into the land of banworthiness.

 

[Sails]

M2K: It's not like MLG is going to give a **** about him being banned so don't worry, the big money is still in your pocket

 

[Remzi]

Let me just ask something.
In a game not made for competitive play, nay a game where the developers themselves tried their hardest to make the game unfit for competitive play where stages and items and even STRATEGIES (planking/ledge camping) must be banned for the game to be competitive. Is it really such a stretch to think that you might need to ban a character too?

I still love this post.

 

[Espy Rose]

I love EmblemLord too, Bengals.
Such a good post.

 

[Raziek]

I love EmblemLord too, Bengals.
Such a good post.

Thirded.

10thirds

 

[Judo777]

Well lets think about this. If you only glide halfway under the stage, you're likely to SD.

If you go to the other side and grab the ledge, you're stalling/planking/scrooging/beating your meat or whatever you wanna call it.

The only logical thing to do would be to ban gliding under the stage and grabbing a ledge, you'd have to land on the stage. M2K was talking about this a few pages back.



It's kinda fair because that analogy is correct.

Ummmmm noooo have you seen MKs recovery? I was actually playing MK and timing people out yesterday and gliding upward in the middle of the underside of the stage is quite effective. MK can make it to either ledge without even using a b move on smash ville and Mk can use all 4 of his b moves to recover from this situation also scrooging is just about as easy if u dont grab the ledge cause MK can use tornado or auto canceled drill rush or auto cancel shuttle loop or auto cancel dimentional cape once hes on the other side. I started playing MK a little like a week ago and i can almost time people out according to MLG rule set and only the grab the ledge 10 times.

 

[dj asakura]

Ummmmm noooo have you seen MKs recovery? I was actually playing MK and timing people out yesterday and gliding upward in the middle of the underside of the stage is quite effective. MK can make it to either ledge without even using a b move on smash ville and Mk can use all 4 of his b moves to recover from this situation also scrooging is just about as easy if u dont grab the ledge cause MK can use tornado or auto canceled drill rush or auto cancel shuttle loop or auto cancel dimentional cape once hes on the other side. I started playing MK a little like a week ago and i can almost time people out according to MLG rule set and only the grab the ledge 10 times.

I wasn't think of SV, my bad.

I haven't touched MK in a few months because I can't stand him or how he plays. But yea, within an hour or so I could time out without grabbing the ledge very much.

 

[6Mizu]

I wasn't think of SV, my bad.

I haven't touched MK in a few months because I can't stand him or how he plays. But yea, within an hour or so I could time out without grabbing the ledge very much.

But...but...I thought everyone luved MK.

 

[Armada]

Mk is good but not good enough to start banning him.

Don´t ban him that is just ridiculous to ban a char just because he win the most tournaments (m2k).

I don´t play brawl but we need justice and mk is justice =).

 

[dj asakura]

But...but...I thought everyone luved MK.

He is da bess

Mk is good but not good enough to start banning him.

Don´t ban him that is just ridiculous to ban a char just because he win the most tournaments (m2k).

I don´t play brawl but we need justice and mk is justice =).

I think he should be banned because we are creating rules to nerf him and hes still in a tier of his own.

 

[6Mizu]

He is da bess

LOL! Exactly why I think that.
I mean what better than....
"Aerial is down while I'm jumping up and press the B Move like I dont give a F"?

 

[OverLade]

Mk is good but not good enough to start banning him.

Don´t ban him that is just ridiculous to ban a char just because he win the most tournaments (m2k).

I don´t play brawl but we need justice and mk is justice =).

 

[EPsilon933]

I don´t play brawl but we need justice and mk is justice =).

Random question, but were you the Armada that placed 17th at Genesis barlw singles?

Genesis results thread
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=241080

 

[Raziek]

Mk is good but not good enough to start banning him.

Don´t ban him that is just ridiculous to ban a char just because he win the most tournaments (m2k).

I don´t play brawl but we need justice and mk is justice =).

You should probably read more before you post. We aren't banning him just because he's good, we're not crazy.

Also, you don't play Brawl. lololol (Yet you got 17th at Genesis.... Liar!)

 

[stingers]

lol @ this thread

people arguing like an mk ban is actually still considered

 

[etecoon]

But...but...I thought everyone luved MK.

if you don't love meta knight you're not human

 

[6Mizu]

EDIT: @ Etecoon: Lol, nice pics. Also, TY for explaining exactly why everyone luvs MK.

 

[Dekar173]

Mk is good but not good enough to start banning him.

Don´t ban him that is just ridiculous to ban a char just because he win the most tournaments (m2k).

I don´t play brawl but we need justice and mk is justice =).

So you'll ***** and complain about how Jigglypuff needs to be banned, but you feel the need to input about Metaknight!

Ok :O

 

[6Mizu]

So you'll ***** and complain about how Jigglypuff needs to be banned, but you feel the need to input about Metaknight!

Ok :O

Dekar is right, how could you need input on MK? Just looking at him is enough to say "****, he needs ban!".

 

[EPsilon933]

So you'll ***** and complain about how Jigglypuff needs to be banned, but you feel the need to input about Metaknight!

Ok :O

You obviously haven't been baired by a Jigglypuff from the other side of DreamLand64.

But really, Jigglypuff is mad gay.