AllyKnight
Banned via Administration
none of em place top 10 in nationals, Snake's good, MY ***.
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Official Metaknight Discussion
- Thread starter Hylian
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Blacknight99923
Smash Champion
actually I would think the smart ones would switch to marth, marth has only 1 bad match up with MK gone and it isn't **** and has higher overall match ups then snake, of course marth has his learning curve to deal and most of them still couldn't place paticularly highly at a national
solecalibur
Smash Master
Marth has even matchups and the slight disadvantage of snake to deal with it would be more balanced though
Blacknight99923
Smash Champion
and he can't pick a stage and have a absoulte **** match up even when it was origonally even. I don't know if you said snake was disadavantedged in a couple match ups or if marth was disadvantedged to snake but marth does not lose to snake.
AllyKnight
Banned via Administration
they go even.
Judo777
Smash Master
- Joined
- Sep 9, 2008
- Messages
- 3,627
More importantly marth has several bad stages! And not only do character like d3 and snake do decent on him he also has even matchups with lower tier characters like rob and DK. No character would take MK's place if he were gone every other character has at least 2 matchps that arent in their favor (this is also counting snake having D3 and oli as bad MU's which i understand isnt that bad but most people will say its slightly against him.) And for those who say "well but snake wont have any mathcups that are severaly against him" i would like to say who in A tier does? Im thinking the worst MU in A tier is...... Falco IC's??? thats like 60/40 characters that good dont have bad matchups.
Black Mantis
Smash Hero
I just watched that video lol.
GeneralWoodman
Smash Lord
marth sux guys
too true
and about marth vs snake even i dono i hate that matchup the most and at times i swear its in marths favour
Budget Player Cadet_
Smash Hero
Fixed. It's hardly fair to say that it's a balancing factor for MK when everyone knows the MK matchup and the MK players only know a few matchups. Why? Well...
1. The other players have to learn more than the MK matchup too. "MK has to learn the lucario/wario/marth/ROB matchup"... Yes, once he does, he destroys all of them. Answer: "Snake has to learn the lucario/wario/DDD/Olimar/Metaknight matchup". Now guess which one of those has it easier? I'll give you a hint-it's the one with three even or bad matchups. Terrible argument. Maining MK has its disadvantages if your opponent is far more skilled in the matchup than you are in every matchup. Which will be the norm because people HAVE to learn the MK matchup or die in this metagame.
2. When other players learn the MK matchup, they don't "learn how to have an advantaged matchup against MK". They "learn how to minimize your problems with MK". In short; the only way there's going to be an advantage for them is if they are considerably better than the MK.
In short, the only reason MKs starting out have it harder is because everyone knows MK so well.
not only this but I think marth would absorb a lot of previous MK users because his playstyle is much more similar to MK than snake, snake would get a lot of the "I only play MK because he's broken" players initially and they'd give up in a month or two as redhalberd said when they realize that snake requires like twice as much effort to learn as most characters...although in general I would expect a large number of former MK mains to quit within 3-4 months of a ban anyway, assuming said ban was actually followed(LOL!)
marth doesn't lose to snake. he does lose to DDD and ROB and maybe a couple others though, so certainly even if every MK went marth he's not taking MK's place(not to mention being a lot harder than MK)
wario depends on your definition of destroy, lucario being in that list shows how badly pro ban propaganda has warped some of you.
Lucario gets completely destroyed by MK in all aspects. Many of us actually believe now that MK is our worst matchup. <<
I keep hearing a bunch of good Warios complaining about how MK is their one of their worst matchups as well.
MK can wall out wario very efficiently but a single opening results in a lot of damage or death...lucario is kind of similar, MK DOES have way superior tools in terms of zoning, frame advantages, traps etc. but then he can die at like 60% when lucario is at 150 because that's how lucario is built, no one ***** lucario
I'm not arguing that MK doesn't have a notable advantage against both of these characters but DESTROY is another level entirely, it's hyperbole.
I'm not arguing that MK doesn't have a notable advantage against both of these characters but DESTROY is another level entirely, it's hyperbole.
Unfortunately, you're very wrong.
MK walls out Wario ridiculously hard, and if that wasn't enough, he also has the Mach Tornado, which absolutely wrecks Wario. He's definitely the second best character at gimping Wario after Falco, is incredibly hard to kill as Wario if they space themselves well, etc.
Lucario you're just plain wrong. It doesn't matter how strong he is if his basic stats are completely outclassed by his opponent. Just look at Ganondorf. :\
Ike then. Or Bowser. Take your pick. My point still stands.
That ain't pokémon!
Damage Points
Smash Ace
Wario MK matchup is definatleu 60:40 in MKs favor. A good wario tho who plays patiently and punishes properly can do well against a MK(if he's a skilled one that doesn't spam nado 35 times in the matchup).
lol Lucario doesn't get beat by mk as bad as those two.
Ussi
Smash Legend
the great words of Ryko:
Ike vs MK is not bringing a knife to a gun fight. It's like bringing a salt shaker to a gun fight. You're saying if you're good enough, the salt shaker would win.
Ike vs MK is not bringing a knife to a gun fight. It's like bringing a salt shaker to a gun fight. You're saying if you're good enough, the salt shaker would win.
adumbrodeus
Smash Legend
Soren's correct here, honestly Brawl's got depth in positioning mechanics, pressure game, mix-ups, etc.
Not as deep as melee, but there are few things that are.
Ah, this reminds me of the time when I beat this guy who pulled a gun on me with a salt shaker.
I was using them as examples of power characters who get outclassed in other aspects which affect their matchups.
lmao if I had room in my signature, I would definitely sig this.
Ussi
Smash Legend
DK would be the best example
I don't think so, because DK is actually a good character. <<
Ussi
Smash Legend
so is Lucario.. That is who we are comparing right?
Turbo Ether
Smash Master
- Joined
- Apr 12, 2006
- Messages
- 3,601
If MKs switch to Marth, they'll be losing to or going even with:
Snake
Diddy
Dedede
ROB
DK
Wolf
Snake has always had a better matchup spread. Also, i'll MM any Marth with Wolf, and i'm sure Atomsk will take that MM as well.
Snake
Diddy
Dedede
ROB
DK
Wolf
Snake has always had a better matchup spread. Also, i'll MM any Marth with Wolf, and i'm sure Atomsk will take that MM as well.
Blacknight99923
Smash Champion
um I never meant to insuate that other characters beat MK I don't know what this validity of this post is when I said pretty much the same thing........
I don't see how marth loses to ROB but I don't think marth beats ROB either.
Marth goes even(ish) with like falco ,Ics (this one is really player dependant, possibly diddy, zero suit, DK ,wolf,ROB. I know some people say peach and kirby as well (there are probably a few I am missing but....)
and most snakes hate the marth match up that I have talked to, I played it as snake once and it felt like I was being rushed down if he got through my camping and tilts. I am pretty much just going to go marth against marth from now on :D
anyway point is marth will never be as dominating MK EVA
and snake loses or goes even with
olimar
DDD
marth
wario
falco
pikachu
and I also think that marth loses slightly to ice climbers but I think snake's hardest matchups ignoring MK are harder
Conviction
Human Nature
Forgot Fox etecoon
And so what? MKs options still **** those characters for the most part, you just have to learn how to play the matchup. I don't even have to list all the top players who picked up MK and within months were beating good players who used to be considered good vs MK. Learning MK is a joke for most top players.
MK is probably every character's worst matchup at the highest competitive level. I don't see how MK destroys lucario though he probably does.
And also Snake vs ZSS is in snakes favor but that doesn't mean ZSS won't, can't win.
Fatal vs Dazwa or Me/HRNUT/Afro vs Nick Riddle isn't ****. Snake wins the matchup but nobody knows how to fight ZSS properly anyway plus you have to take skill gaps into account as well. By no means is snake guaranteed to win the matchup at this point.
CO18
Smash Hero
But you said ZSS has a good mu vs snake which she doesn't..
NickRiddle
#negativeNick
Umm... wat.
That is all.
Turbo Ether
Smash Master
- Joined
- Apr 12, 2006
- Messages
- 3,601
Wario and Dedede? Ok. Everyone else? Nope.
I also think i'm the only Snake player that enjoys the Marth matchup.
Judo777
Smash Master
- Joined
- Sep 9, 2008
- Messages
- 3,627
Guess what the coolest part about this post is? It has WOLF on the list. Wanna know why that is cool? Because i have been told by a few people that wolf actually does fairly well against diddy (heard others say its his worst MU but i wont go there) and with MK gone there will be alot more wolfs. I mean tbh we dont even know how wolf fairs against alot of the other higher tiers cause I mean how many good wolfs are there? (i think i can count em on my hand) Why arent there any wolfs when wolf fairs pretty well with marth and does ok against diddy? oh thats right MK.
Turbo Ether
Smash Master
- Joined
- Apr 12, 2006
- Messages
- 3,601
Dedede is troublesome. Every other matchup is manageable if you disregard planking. Well, MK in general is pretty tough, but literally no MKs know the matchup.
Fatal only lost to Dazwa because Dazwa read his rolling habit like a book and baired him for it with near 100% consistency. That was less Snake and more Fatal just not changing up a bad habit. And even then the matches/sets were still pretty close! Hell, if Snake makes it back onto the stage past 130% and camps away from dsmash it's actually harder to kill him because he goes too high out of our combo starters to easily chain into an aerial!
All I mean is that Snake doesn't automatically beat ZSS. Learning the matchup/catching up effect is large enough to where if people just started picking up snake they wouldn't be beating good ZSS players for a minute. Anyway all I mean is that Snake players do lose to ZSS players. I meant good comparatively...
Blacknight99923
Smash Champion
off to a point a bit but if MKs switch to marth they won't be beating good snakes for at least a few months
does ZSS get destroyed by MK btw?
does ZSS get destroyed by MK btw?
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