theunabletable
Smash Lord
After seeing Chu Dat come down here to SoCal and watching him play, a good Kirby WILL land hits.
-
Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!
You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!
Official Metaknight Discussion
- Thread starter Hylian
- Start date
- Status
actually in general I don't think a lot have characters have problems landing some kind of damage on MK, with characters like kirby or GAW the pattern I see is that they can fight MK pretty well until they need to kill, but an MK that says "I am not going to die first" and knows your characters kill set ups usually doesn't. MK isn't THAT beast in the neutral situation I think, it's just the inability to put him in a disadvantaged pressure situation that makes it hard to land those kinds of hits on him
Jack Kieser
Smash Champion
You're very welcome. Although, I hate looping songs that have loop points that use an anacrusis that blends with the downbeat of the next measure.
...it's really *****y.
ShadowLink84
Smash Hero
I know how you feel.
Alot of songs take FOREVER to loop.
Kaffei
Smash Hero
- Joined
- Feb 8, 2008
- Messages
- 7,048
are you serious
Masmasher@
Smash Lord
WOWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW
song pretty good chorus could be better though lmao
Turbo Ether
Smash Master
- Joined
- Apr 12, 2006
- Messages
- 3,601
Chu is Chu and also a million times more experienced in that matchup at a top level than SoCal MKs.
theunabletable
Smash Lord
Still. Saying that Kirby won't land hits is just downright stupid.
Turbo Ether
Smash Master
- Joined
- Apr 12, 2006
- Messages
- 3,601
Masmasher@
Smash Lord
"rob good players of their winnings"
lmao nice double meaning/wordplay
lmao nice double meaning/wordplay
theunabletable
Smash Lord
Oh and because I noticed it just now:
"but sbr decided that they've voted for the last time"
Unintentional SBR leak?
Referring to this?Swordgard said:
"but sbr decided that they've voted for the last time"
Unintentional SBR leak?
meowth_
Smash Cadet
- Joined
- Mar 21, 2009
- Messages
- 52
well seeings how shiek was supposed to be "the best" for like 4 years in melee until fox was realized to be "the best", i would say MK has like 2 years to go before any real decision can be made
another thing is that considering the fact that brawl has only been out for 2 years and its prequel game didn't see the rise of amazing players until over 3 years down the line, i'd say we have lots and lots of time to figure out where MK should be placed and whether or not he should be banned.
i know i have like 4 posts and im not gonna get any recognition because i have nothing to back up my statements, but as someone who has played smash since 64 and has played thousands and thousands of brawl matches with thousands of hours played in the game, it makes no sense to try to ban MK now. there's still a couple years before we see the perfection of brawl from amazing players.
there's still tons of time, and a couple years before competitive brawling is maxed out and there's not much left to achieve.
the only way to get rid of the gayness of brawl is to do a sweeping ban of not only MK, but snake and diddy and falco too.
no one wants that, but the fact of the matter is that snake is just as gay as metaknight and falco and diddy are close behind the gayometer. it doesn't matter if you ban MK, there will just be hundreds of snakes across the nation winning tourneys left and right because snake will be the next MK.
you can ban MK but you can't truely ban his essence. his ******ry exists in all chars in its own way (in brawl). priority.
another thing is that considering the fact that brawl has only been out for 2 years and its prequel game didn't see the rise of amazing players until over 3 years down the line, i'd say we have lots and lots of time to figure out where MK should be placed and whether or not he should be banned.
i know i have like 4 posts and im not gonna get any recognition because i have nothing to back up my statements, but as someone who has played smash since 64 and has played thousands and thousands of brawl matches with thousands of hours played in the game, it makes no sense to try to ban MK now. there's still a couple years before we see the perfection of brawl from amazing players.
there's still tons of time, and a couple years before competitive brawling is maxed out and there's not much left to achieve.
the only way to get rid of the gayness of brawl is to do a sweeping ban of not only MK, but snake and diddy and falco too.
no one wants that, but the fact of the matter is that snake is just as gay as metaknight and falco and diddy are close behind the gayometer. it doesn't matter if you ban MK, there will just be hundreds of snakes across the nation winning tourneys left and right because snake will be the next MK.
you can ban MK but you can't truely ban his essence. his ******ry exists in all chars in its own way (in brawl). priority.
Goldenadept
Smash Lord
the posting nooby is smarter than us o: we're doing it wrong guys!
meowth_
Smash Cadet
- Joined
- Mar 21, 2009
- Messages
- 52
no i just recognize a ****ty game when i see one. brawl isn't as good as melee, everyone knows that. brawl just has a big community and online play which makes it more accessible and thus more appealing.
also brawl has a character imbalance that is pretty staggering. when is the last time you saw a bowser or DK win a brawl tourney? how about even some mid tiers like yoshi and ness?
you don't and that's because there's chars like MK/snake/falco/diddy to keep those lower tier characters in line. until you either figure out a way around those characters (which will either take time or just wont happen because they are too overpowered) you will never ever escape from it.
and if they ban MK it's just gonna be snakes on a plane smash style. it's like an MK sausage fest already but i prefer that over a snake sausage fest and that's all it will be because the only other chars winning tourneys are snakes and falcos and diddys.
sure MK is gay sure he is broken, there's a couple other chars that are slightly less BS and can still smear the other 15 or 16 mid tiers across the map.
it's not even about post count it's just common sense. duh. in a game where characters aren't balanced there uh... wont be balance?
at least until it's either understood that the characters can be beat or until it's understood that they can't. banning wont make a difference. there will still be a handful of bs chars
You wanna know what's gay? Taking Snake to Brinstar with Wario. Wanna know what's Gayer? MK taking you there. Wanna know what's Gayest? MK.
Snake. Hah. Good sir I will have you know that Snake is nowhere as gay as MK. Period. I'm not talking about broken or aksdjajdkajda or ****, I am talking about "DID THIS MOTHA ****ER JUST PICK THIS CHARACTER AND TAKE ME TO THIS STAGE AND DO THESE THINGS TO ME".
I can make Snake weak in the Knees and bend over to me on Brinstar. I can make Falco cry on any stage that looks like a rugged old grandpa's back. I can make Diddy keel over and shrivel up into a ball of nothingness if I plank him or take him somewhere nastier than AIDS. But for the love of god, don't tell me MK isn't the gayest sack of burnt potato fecal matter to originate in the Brawl universe, or that the characters below him can actually compare to him in Gayness. "Oh man that Diddy Kong throws bananas and camps in his sheild and blah blah blah." "Good thing he can't plank the edge or edgeguard me to death or frame trap me in the air, on the ground, offstage, in my shield, etc." "Oh lord this Falco is pressing B and Side B and sometimes even ROLL!!!?!??!!!!" "Uh Powershield, plank, ????, Chain Grab, Take to any stage resembling a Mountainside Village cross mixed with a Dr Seuss universe with loads of **** and GAYNESS smeared all over like a PB&J sandwich made of win and legally unsanctioned actions."
I don't care how many posts you have, how old/new you are, or even whether you think MK should be banned. But the minute I even SNIFF A FAINT TRACE OF AN INKLING THOUGHT BELIEVING THAT ANYONE SCRATCHES THE SURFACE OF HOW "GAY" MK IS, that is the moment I will call you out and make a post like this talking about why, frankly, that is an absurd statement or belief to come across and accept as true. You have to either accept this character for being the full blown Homo Erotica Senior Editor of Brawl Weekly, or accept people like me saying Wait a minute, read the credits bro, MK is clearly labeled as the President of "HEYO IS THAT WHAT I THINK IT IS, WHERE ARE YOUR PANTS!?!?"
As for characters winning tournaments, what is more fun: a single character winning most, or having them spread out well? Let's assume that Snake, Falco, whatever is just right under MK. Where with him banned, they would be winning everything left and right. You go from MK winning most everything, to Snake/Falco/whoever sharing the spotlight. If you are saying you would prefer a single character to win most everything OVER multiple characters winning overall, then you are probably biased in how you perceive those characters to be when it comes to how "exciting" or how enjoyable they are to watch.
Snake. Hah. Good sir I will have you know that Snake is nowhere as gay as MK. Period. I'm not talking about broken or aksdjajdkajda or ****, I am talking about "DID THIS MOTHA ****ER JUST PICK THIS CHARACTER AND TAKE ME TO THIS STAGE AND DO THESE THINGS TO ME".
I can make Snake weak in the Knees and bend over to me on Brinstar. I can make Falco cry on any stage that looks like a rugged old grandpa's back. I can make Diddy keel over and shrivel up into a ball of nothingness if I plank him or take him somewhere nastier than AIDS. But for the love of god, don't tell me MK isn't the gayest sack of burnt potato fecal matter to originate in the Brawl universe, or that the characters below him can actually compare to him in Gayness. "Oh man that Diddy Kong throws bananas and camps in his sheild and blah blah blah." "Good thing he can't plank the edge or edgeguard me to death or frame trap me in the air, on the ground, offstage, in my shield, etc." "Oh lord this Falco is pressing B and Side B and sometimes even ROLL!!!?!??!!!!" "Uh Powershield, plank, ????, Chain Grab, Take to any stage resembling a Mountainside Village cross mixed with a Dr Seuss universe with loads of **** and GAYNESS smeared all over like a PB&J sandwich made of win and legally unsanctioned actions."
I don't care how many posts you have, how old/new you are, or even whether you think MK should be banned. But the minute I even SNIFF A FAINT TRACE OF AN INKLING THOUGHT BELIEVING THAT ANYONE SCRATCHES THE SURFACE OF HOW "GAY" MK IS, that is the moment I will call you out and make a post like this talking about why, frankly, that is an absurd statement or belief to come across and accept as true. You have to either accept this character for being the full blown Homo Erotica Senior Editor of Brawl Weekly, or accept people like me saying Wait a minute, read the credits bro, MK is clearly labeled as the President of "HEYO IS THAT WHAT I THINK IT IS, WHERE ARE YOUR PANTS!?!?"
As for characters winning tournaments, what is more fun: a single character winning most, or having them spread out well? Let's assume that Snake, Falco, whatever is just right under MK. Where with him banned, they would be winning everything left and right. You go from MK winning most everything, to Snake/Falco/whoever sharing the spotlight. If you are saying you would prefer a single character to win most everything OVER multiple characters winning overall, then you are probably biased in how you perceive those characters to be when it comes to how "exciting" or how enjoyable they are to watch.
Tarmogoyf
Smash Master
You do realize that brawl is also drastically more developed than Melee because it started with the melee scene from the beginning, as opposed to having to grow up slowly like melee did?
Brawl probably isn't done developing, but it's sooooooooooooooooooooooooo much farther ahead than melee was 2 years in
@meowth
Brawl probably isn't done developing, but it's sooooooooooooooooooooooooo much farther ahead than melee was 2 years in
@meowth
DMGrape
it's true, especially with snake, snake is NO WHERE near as gay as MK. he doesn't have the gay CP's and strategies...IMO falco, IC's, wario...they're GAYER than snake even if not as good as him...**** maybe diddy too "don't like items and tripping? TOO BAD I BRING MY OWN ITEMS"
MK is the homoest by far though, the fact that you can only ban one between brinstar and RC is CRIMINAL
it's true, especially with snake, snake is NO WHERE near as gay as MK. he doesn't have the gay CP's and strategies...IMO falco, IC's, wario...they're GAYER than snake even if not as good as him...**** maybe diddy too "don't like items and tripping? TOO BAD I BRING MY OWN ITEMS"
MK is the homoest by far though, the fact that you can only ban one between brinstar and RC is CRIMINAL
meowth_
Smash Cadet
- Joined
- Mar 21, 2009
- Messages
- 52
my good sir i enjoyed your post to the maximum... but i still believe that even if MK is banned snake/diddy/falco will take his place. it's just a matter of principal. it's for the same reason MK is so gay. he has advantages over other characters in a plethora of ways and while the other guys in the a tier dont have as many, they still have quite a few.
it would be just as unfair as MK being gay as hell to JUST ban MK. my good sir, u cannot simply ban a MK. his essence and soul of gayness has leaked into other characters. snake is a wee bit less flaming than MK.
just a wee bit. that wee little bit alone isn't gonna make some drastic change in the way brawl tourneys come out because right now they aren't. snake still wins all the time because he is also a flaming homosexual. there's nothing wrong with this because everyone has MK to fall back on and call out as the in the closet flamer menace.
but the real question here is:
why would you ban MK and not the other BS chars like snake and falco and diddy? they may not be at MKs level of ******ry, but their ******ry is still detrimental to tourney play if MKs is. it's following the same principal.
let me give a better illustration:
in brawl you have 4 odd-ball chars.
you have the black sheep, metaknight
you have the white fluffy nice sheep, every other char besides falco/diddy/snake
and then you have the "charcoal" sheep, who are diddy/falco/snake
they are not black sheep and not alienated like a black sheep, but they are ****ed close to black sheep.
or better yet:
there's 3 evolutions in brawl that sum up all of the chars:
you have your dratini, which is all the chars besides MK /diddy/falco/snake
you have your dragonair, which is diddy/falco/snake
and then you have your dragonite, which is MK.
to reiterate (im just having fun debating here, not trying to be TOO **** serious)
if you're in favor of banning MK you're in favor of a balanced game. there will be no balanced game until either all chars are dratinis and stage one evolution (massive lols at that metaphor) and there will be no balanced game until all the chars are regular white fluffy sheeps and not ****ed up and BS.
meowth_
Smash Cadet
- Joined
- Mar 21, 2009
- Messages
- 52
it might be farther in because it uses a very similar engine but no changes to melee were ever made and none will probably ever be made to brawl and thus you're left with the same situation:
no changes will be made to the game.
there will be no "developing"
there will only be players who play the game as best as it can be played.
it will take time.
what i mean by this is that melee never changed and brawl wont ever change, it's always gonna be the same game until something new is discovered (like wavedashing in melee) or until the game dies a horrible unbalanced and metaknight death
yeah?
Here's my logic:
If people aren't that apprehensive of banning MK because of how much HE limits the metagame, why the hell would anyone want to ban characters who limit the metagame less/are not as destructive or good as MK? If MK makes only 5 characters viable (example), and you don't ban him, why ban someone like snake who might allow 8-9 or more characters to be viable?
Basically, if people are reluctant to ban MK, for being the gayest, why ban those who are not as gay as him even if he is gone? I find it hard to believe that the same people who said "NEVER BAN TEH MK" would all of a sudden go "Oh boo hoo, I want to ban Snake even though more people can compete with him than MK by a noticeable margin." I would find that hypocritical
If people aren't that apprehensive of banning MK because of how much HE limits the metagame, why the hell would anyone want to ban characters who limit the metagame less/are not as destructive or good as MK? If MK makes only 5 characters viable (example), and you don't ban him, why ban someone like snake who might allow 8-9 or more characters to be viable?
Basically, if people are reluctant to ban MK, for being the gayest, why ban those who are not as gay as him even if he is gone? I find it hard to believe that the same people who said "NEVER BAN TEH MK" would all of a sudden go "Oh boo hoo, I want to ban Snake even though more people can compete with him than MK by a noticeable margin." I would find that hypocritical
I don't think MK should be banned but if we're ALREADY banning him to benefit the mid tier kids why not finish the job? IC's invalidate 90% of the cast, why not get rid of them too? I don't think anyone should be banned but if we start doing it we might as well do it right. all banning MK does is increase the viability of currently viable characters(or decrease in diddy's case...), you can already win a tournament with snake or falco, it doesn't *really* change anything.
En.Ee.Oh
Smash Champion
- Joined
- Jul 31, 2003
- Messages
- 2,527
this is where you're wrong, melee changed drastically several times
in the beginning, l-cancel/wavedash techniques or whatever were still being worked out and they weren't mastered by many
once people got better at them, the general gameplay was still pretty shallow/sloppy
fast forward to techniques being more generally mastered and melee is a battle of wits, to see who can outsmart/outdance/evade each other more consistently, reads techs.
fast forward to past this era and you have what melee is now, essentially after a certain % it's one hit, one stock
tech chasing/reading can be done on reaction/frame trapping without the need to even predict what they will do
even players that aren't at the very top of the metagame know their ****, melee is a MUCH more RELENTLESS game NOW than it has ever been
Orion*
Smash Researcher
under like. what critique are you basing this stuff on. =.=
I'm saying that for you to ban a character like Snake or Falco or those below MK, you either have to change the banning criteria or objectives to be much more lenient, OR they have to be up to par with the stricter banning criteria. If people are split on MK to begin with, there's a good chance those characters don't even pass the bar and make it into actual serious discussion. So, that checks off "Characters being really gay to the point of needing a ban like MK" and leaves "Well we might as well just take out what we don't like, not what might be acceptable or what could function properly if left alone". AKA taking Slippery slope argument for banning MK in relation to other characters then needing a ban, and making it happen on purpose lol.
meowth_
Smash Cadet
- Joined
- Mar 21, 2009
- Messages
- 52
i agree with you that banning MK and then not banning the other top tier characters would at least allow for some more characters to stand a chance in a tourney, but that doesn't change the fact that those other top tier characters will just become the next MK in their own rights. i mean really you're gonna have 4 or 5 really good characters that will always place high because of their imbalance compared to the majority of other characters.
what im saying is what happens if we just ban all the top tier characters? then you have the most possible characters in the game all competing against non gay characters and all standing somewhat of an equal chance. moreso of a chance than had you not banned any of the top tiers.
as a matter of fact, what would allow for the most characters to stand the most of a chance in any tourney?
a balanced playing field. what is hindering the majority of characters from being able to compete at high end play? i would think it'd be those top tier characters who are frankly just better chars.
i dont know if i'd ever want those top tier characters banned but idk if i want MK banned either. im just bored and wanting to get some opinions because it just came to me... hey what happens if we just ban all high tier in general and let the ****ty chars duke it out? doesn't that give us more overall playable chars in tourneys? doesn't that give a wider spectrum of top placing chars? isn't that what all pro-ban MKs want, in essence?
a more balanced game?
I see "MK badly stifles character diversity" thrown around a lot by people that want him banned, that criteria seems to fit ice climbers and DDD pretty well too. again, I don't think they should be banned either, I just agree with meowth that brawl will always be gay as hell and banning a character can't fix it
Is our goal to try and make the game as balanced as possible, or only weeding out that which truly ruins the game? If our goal is to make the game as balanced as possible, then you know we are supposed to be playing Ganondorf Dittos on FD, Smashville, and BF only right? If our goal is to weed out that which truly ruins the game, and people can't agree on MK, Snake and friends aren't even gonna get to that point.
There's nothing wrong with a top tier or a bunch of top tier characters winning a lot. Until they win TOO much. MK is kinda iffy right now. Everyone below him will obviously never have the same level of dominance MK has. On a scale of 1-10, let's say MK is an 8. With MK gone, you would be lucky for anyone else to be a 6 max.
Dedede and Ice Climbers have counters. They invalidate a few bad characters, like MK does, but fewer good characters than MK. If they limited people the same as MK, they would be higher. But they are held back by bad matchups or exploitable flaws. I think that is acceptable. If we left MK alone, and introduced maybe 2-3 "Random" counters like all of a sudden Peach counters MK and Mario wins or just something weird, I think his limiting of others would easily be acceptable because of that. If you make the game down to 5 regular characters, and then all of a sudden lose to something silly, that opens up the door for CPing to take place widespread and doesn't make MK the "dynomite" option in a regular game of RPS.
There's nothing wrong with a top tier or a bunch of top tier characters winning a lot. Until they win TOO much. MK is kinda iffy right now. Everyone below him will obviously never have the same level of dominance MK has. On a scale of 1-10, let's say MK is an 8. With MK gone, you would be lucky for anyone else to be a 6 max.
Dedede and Ice Climbers have counters. They invalidate a few bad characters, like MK does, but fewer good characters than MK. If they limited people the same as MK, they would be higher. But they are held back by bad matchups or exploitable flaws. I think that is acceptable. If we left MK alone, and introduced maybe 2-3 "Random" counters like all of a sudden Peach counters MK and Mario wins or just something weird, I think his limiting of others would easily be acceptable because of that. If you make the game down to 5 regular characters, and then all of a sudden lose to something silly, that opens up the door for CPing to take place widespread and doesn't make MK the "dynomite" option in a regular game of RPS.
meowth_
Smash Cadet
- Joined
- Mar 21, 2009
- Messages
- 52
what i was reponding to was a post saying that melee has been "developed" and what i was trying to imply is that melee wasn't ever developed, it was the same game on day 1 of release as it is if you go pick it up used at gamestop. there were no actual changes made to the game, only a manipulation of what was already there.
i use wavedashing as an example of a huge breakthrough in gameplay that was definitely a "development" but not a true addition to melee. it was always there, anyone could have discovered it, and it took TIME.
it took TIME for all of that stuff to be "developed" and while in that context i believe you and the other poster are right. melee did get "developed" by the community.
my original statement ITT was that in relation to tier lists and the time melee took to actually become what it is today, it took TIME. now brawl still needs TIME to be "developed" and thus banning MK 2 years into brawl's release when melee didn't even get scratched 2 years into release just seems a little like a fast reaction to something that could potentially change, and statistically has changed, over the course of a couple years.
my statistics (hardly really statistics, i must say) are simply based off of melee in general.
melee took a while to get to see max levels of play, and i would assume the same for brawl. so with those assumptions, i conclude that maybe banning MK right now isn't a good idea because we still have at least a year or two before brawl should theoretically be at a max level of play.. or even near it. you could argue melee's max lvl of play was never achieved or whatever, and the fact that it is still competitively played regularly today stands as testament to this.
all im really trying to say is:
why ban MK when we've only come this far? why close your eyes to the possibility of something new being discovered? surely we saw it with melee, why can't anyone see it now?
maybe im just wrong and i can accept that... but i don't know about this whole ban MK thing. the grounds for banning MK are for the most part applicable to a handful of characters in brawl (IC infintes, snake, wario, falco, etc)
but you know what? that's why im here arguing right now. i purposefully typed all this out so that i could hear what you guys have to say because you guys probably have further developed opinions on the matter and i want to see how you react to mine.
maybe tomorrow ill be pro ban MK. it all depends on how well the pro-ban arguments are thought out
The problem though, is that no matter if even the entire community wanted Meta Knight gone, the SBR wouldn't do it.
And at this point, even the SBR's decision on Meta Knight is pointless, thanks to the MLG ruleset.
meowth_
Smash Cadet
- Joined
- Mar 21, 2009
- Messages
- 52
to say that MK ruins the game for people is kinda drastic. i know he's gay, i agree that he's gay, but i also believe that if you destroy his gayness, others will rise to take his place.
sure, there will be more characters at the top of brawl. there will still be a minority at the top of brawl, and the majority of characters will be lucky to see 4th place. hell, they will be lucky to see 8th place because you can guarantee that if MK is banned you're gonna see snake/diddy/wario/falco ranging from 1rst to 4th with the same char showing up twice maybe 3 times over so you'd be lucky to be in TWELFTH place with a low tier character.
i agree that banning MK would allow for a couple more chars to be a little bit more viable, but is it worth banning a character? i mean with the same logic of "ban that which is a hindrance" you're gonna have a hard-pressed time trying to convince people that the handful of top tier characters aren't gay once MK is gone. you're gonna have the same people upset for the same reason, maybe on a lesser scale maybe even on a higher one.
it's like putting a bandaid over a humongous gash.
edit**
ok seriously think about this:
let's say tourneys nation wide all the sudden ban these chars:
falco
snake
wario
MK
diddy
IC's
you'd still have (i think) like 30 characters to play, right? all of which would be prety viable with those top tier characters gone...
that doesn't seem TOO bad to me. not TOO bad at all
If MK is too good, the answer is you ban him. If someone else is too good, ban them as well. I wouldn't ban MK just to make a few other characters viable (even if that was the exact outcome from banning him.) I would ban him if he's ******** for the community to deal with because of how good he is.
Yes other top tiers are gay. To the point that they need to be banned? No. Would it still suck? Yes. It's Brawl. However, with that said, I wouldn't let that kind of "Brawl sucks anyways" attitude now make MK acceptable just cause the game is garbage overall.
Yes other top tiers are gay. To the point that they need to be banned? No. Would it still suck? Yes. It's Brawl. However, with that said, I wouldn't let that kind of "Brawl sucks anyways" attitude now make MK acceptable just cause the game is garbage overall.
meowth_
Smash Cadet
- Joined
- Mar 21, 2009
- Messages
- 52
you're gonna have the same argument being told to you except instead of MK it'll be whatever top tier char places the highest at the most amount of tourneys (most likely snake)
so it wont ever end, which is why it makes me wonder if MK should be banned, if he should be left alone, or if all the top tier chars should be banned so that the rest of the chars that aren't gay can all duke it out for a better battle
i don't think the other top tier chars are worth banning, but then again idk if MK is really worth banning. i mean, the top tier chars are a little bit less gay and that's it. that's the ONLY thing holding them back. the fact that MK is a little bit better than most of them in most situations, right?
so does it ever really end? probably not.
Slippery slope argument sucks.
meowth_
Smash Cadet
- Joined
- Mar 21, 2009
- Messages
- 52
cool mod post bro
well he's right lol, people already ***** about snake/falco/IC's/diddy/wario but no one wants them banned and no one will. I think IC's can be just as harmful to the metagame and I brought that up but under no circumstance do I EVER actually see them getting banned lol
The results of banning MK is that of further diversity in results, but that should not be THE reason to ban him.
We should be looking at WHY he centralises results. Hence, the data is not the argument, it is the proof.
Conceivably, the reasons why he centralises results will by no means comply to any other high tier character in this game. Some may argue Ice Climbers, but that is a different story (MK is the primary character ICs honestly lose to, if you haven't noticed. If the snake match up breaks down then people may consider ICs a problem).
So stop the slippery slope.
Cool anybody could post what I said and be right bro. If people decide to listen to me in a debate (that is not breaking board rules) because I am a moderator than that is there own perogative. If you wish to argue slippery slopes anybody actively debating will eventually shun you anyway, so take what I said as plain old advice.
We should be looking at WHY he centralises results. Hence, the data is not the argument, it is the proof.
Conceivably, the reasons why he centralises results will by no means comply to any other high tier character in this game. Some may argue Ice Climbers, but that is a different story (MK is the primary character ICs honestly lose to, if you haven't noticed. If the snake match up breaks down then people may consider ICs a problem).
So stop the slippery slope.
Cool anybody could post what I said and be right bro. If people decide to listen to me in a debate (that is not breaking board rules) because I am a moderator than that is there own perogative. If you wish to argue slippery slopes anybody actively debating will eventually shun you anyway, so take what I said as plain old advice.
Eddie G
Smash Hero
The reason, or at least a huge contributing factor, as to why MK centralizes results is because the best (or one of the best...even before this particular game came out) player chose to stick with him and ended up propelling said character at unbelievable rates of speed in comparison to the rest of the cast. For all we know, the reason may be because his metagame is still lightyears ahead of any other character on the roster, or maybe it's the reason that has been explained many times I'm sure...his raw stats/tools in comparison to the rest of the cast's available tools.
I personally believe it is the first portion (M2K) with a slight inclusion of MK's raw character tools. When players can emulate a combination as solid as that...it makes for a situation in which we are all acquainted with today.
I personally believe it is the first portion (M2K) with a slight inclusion of MK's raw character tools. When players can emulate a combination as solid as that...it makes for a situation in which we are all acquainted with today.
Budget Player Cadet_
Smash Hero
Now answer me this-how many of those MKs spent the same amount of time on the Kirby MU as Chu did on the MK MU. Half the time? A third? A quarter?
This is part of what pisses me off about MK. Someone just said this earlier-"It would be nice if an MK put as much time and effort into any matchup as that character put into the MK matchup and didn't destroy that character". I'm willing to best most MKs learn Snake, Wario, DDD, Falco, ICs, and Diddy (lol M2K), and pretty much leave it at that, if that.
Actually, most people disagree with you on this one. Brawl is one of the most extensively researched games on the market. We've completely decoded it. Guess what-most innovations that the Workshop figures out that could apply to vBrawl head right to tactical. We can find out whatever we want, and we're starting to hit the limit of what hacking can do (sensibly).
Comparing brawl's scene to Melee's is faulty for that reason, and also because Brawl had a massive following from the very start.
Before you even BEGIN to argue this post, Meowth, remember-DMG is the master of gayness. Nobody is as gay as he is. Ever.
Yeah this.
1. Snake/Diddy/Falco all have counterpicks. You can't pick one of them and just have a free advantage against anyone anywhere.
2. Snake/Diddy/Falco are all more or less balanced, it's seen. Snake is a good way ahead, but this can be shown is miniscule compared to the lead MK has. Add the above fact...
Wait hang on. Snake is just a "little" gayer than MK? Lies, lies and slander. GTFO.
Terrible Analogies. The better would be a little like this:
Diddy/Falco/Snake/DDD/ICs/Wario/a few others are like Garchomp.
The rest of the cast are other pokemon.
Metaknight is Arceus.
That's a little more accurate. The top tier is great, and definitely better than the rest by a wide margin. However, Metaknight is absolutely ridiculous! Every piece of evidence points to this. Also, if you get rid of those guys who are like Garchomp, then the differences in the rest of the OUs becomes clearly-it becomes like OUs, unused pokemon, and level 5s (ganon lol). So what then-ban the OUs because they're better?
The difference here is that it's one character causing a big fat problem, and every bit of evidence
Well, if you're interested in the pro-ban arguments... Check this post out:
http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=9870413&postcount=9760
Click the links in that post and you'll basically see why we are pro-ban: consistently, the evidence has shown again and again that metaknight is completely dominating the metagame, that the trends are his rising dominance, and that he only gets better at times when all the best players get together (nationals).
- Status