If MK only has a slight advantage there's no way that Pit can be 50/50 on any neutral stage....
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Official Metaknight Discussion
- Thread starter Hylian
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If MK has only a slight advantage vs DK there's no way that D3 can be 100/0
yeah....
MK has a massive advantage over DK, and DK vs D3 isn't 100:0 even with the infinite.
bigbucks
Smash Journeyman
Mk vs DK is 60-40. -_-
Well, DK DOES get juggled pretty nasty by strategic tornado spam. DK's landing? Tornado... DK's attacking? Tornado... DK's recovering? Tornado... DK's on the ground or platform doing nothing? Don't tornado.
And that's just tornado! DK's a big target with no GTFO aerials. If he wants to upB out of something, he's gotta wait for the hitstun to end, or cancel it with an aerial/airdodge and then upB. This pretty much means DK's juggling material, he can't defend himself against opponents who are waiting for him down below. Platformed stages help him out, but remember that the opponent can use platforms to his advantage too, it doesn't necessarily mean "land here and you're safe from juggles".
He has no problems killing though. Nor does he have problems dying, what with his weight and all. But seeing as he's a big target, he can get damage racked up easily, and this killed before he notices he reached ~160%.
TLMSheikant
Smash Master
2 tournies this weekend were full with mks. Phase 8 with 6 mks in the top 8 and asylum with like 9-10 mks in the top 12. BAN MK!
Halberd, that's cause MK has a slight advantage assuming he can't plank forever. If Pit can't plank forever, he probably could squeeze out something evenish on neutrals.
If both of them could plank forever, they would both clearly beat the tar out of Diddy. No Contest. But throw in a limit and it becomes a little more complicated. 35, 50, whatever you pick can change the matchup.
If both of them could plank forever, they would both clearly beat the tar out of Diddy. No Contest. But throw in a limit and it becomes a little more complicated. 35, 50, whatever you pick can change the matchup.
yes
i hate olimar
John12346
Smash Master
demonictoonlink
Smash Master
These are some pretty scary results for anti-ban.
how so? dunno if you noticed but anti ban mostly abandoned this argument months ago and just went "meh, MK is never going to be banned no matter what your statistics say", and they're right. winning an argument on the internet =/= actually being able to change anything.
Kaffei
Smash Hero
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if MK is banned I'll still play him anyway since he's so much fun
Blacknight99923
Smash Champion
it needs to take more then just 2 tournaments with results like this before considering this less then an isolated incident statically
Damage Points
Smash Ace
The tourney in NC I just went too had the following results in top 4:
1) MK
2) Snake
3)MK
4)MK
5)Olimar
The rest were DDD and us warios. MK is dominating most of our tournies here in NC. I do agree with the ban but I'm not gonna say he doesn't take skill to use. I think to play MK at a high level requires a very high level of skill and knowledge.
1) MK
2) Snake
3)MK
4)MK
5)Olimar
The rest were DDD and us warios. MK is dominating most of our tournies here in NC. I do agree with the ban but I'm not gonna say he doesn't take skill to use. I think to play MK at a high level requires a very high level of skill and knowledge.
Arturito_Burrito
Smash Master
I think that was meant to correct ADHD when he said milliseconds (being 1/1000th of a second) and 1 frame actually being more than a few milliseconds.
Did you read that off a matchup thread?
LOL I never factor in planking to my matchup ratios, I mostly just factor in extreme camping and baiting. MK vs DK could potentially be as bad as 80-20 on some stages. It could possibly be close to 55-45 on a few stages though.
But most people who factor matchup ratios don't consider all options or anything. They just base it on the current metagame and what other people do. DK beating MK should be impossible on the majority of stages. Tornado beats everything if you use it right and shouldn't be punishable either.
demonictoonlink
Smash Master
That's really not enough.
Us anti-bans have been relying on that strategy, but we really don't know what the SBR is doing.
There's actually been some varied results lately though. MLG was great for one. Meh, it's just that results like MLG show MK as the best character while these show MK is the dominant character.
Again, dominant doesn't mean ban-worthy, just dominant. But yeah, I guess it doesn't matter. MK isn't gonna be banned
t3h Icy
Smash Master
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1: Anti ($215.00) split
2: ADHD ($107.50) split
3: Shadow ($43.00)
4: Atomsk ($21.50)
5: Nairo ($10.75)
5: Bigm ($10.75)
7: Izumi
7: Jtails
Yeah MK doesn't need to be banned.1: Dojo -
2: Dphat -
3: D4bag -
4: Melee1 -
5: Van Jones -
5: UTDZac -
Mew2King
King of the Mews
he doesn't. Vast majority of those MKs are bad. The competition at those tourneys were not very good outside of a small group of people. EXTREMELY biased examples. At the last 100+ man Melee tourney, almost everyone in the top 8 was Fox except for like Darkrain and hochimintrail's ICs.
Blacknight99923
Smash Champion
being bad or good to your personal subjective opinion has nothing to do with this. Its the top placing players at a tourny used MK, this isn't like its the north dakota regions either these were competive regions.
however a isolated result is a valid agrument, unless this continues then there is no point in changing opinion
Turbo Ether
Smash Master
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- Apr 12, 2006
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Hey, if people want to wallow in a Meta Knight infested metagame, let them.
I find it ironic you should criticize this so heavily (Infested is a charged word, so I'm assuming you dislike MK-based metagames) when many 2d fighters eventually have pretty stacked results in favor of one character.
Wasn't the last major SF3 tourney like, all top4 Chun-li?
Turbo Ether
Smash Master
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I'm completely indifferent towards the MK situation, actually. I don't follow 3S, so I wouldn't know.
A lot of people would seemingly be content if the game devolved into nothing but MK dittos. If that became the situation, and enough people were content with it, I say, "whatever, let them be".
Ripple
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why do we cite other video games like SF when the dominate character is usually nerfed in the next released? people have a problem with 1 dominate character and thats why the game creators fix that in the next version. if not, akuma from SF2 ?(I'm no expert at when he was broken) would be the same as when he was broken.
we do not have the luxury of waiting a couple months for the next issue. we have to wait years. we can't wait for the next version. we (the community) must do something when there is a single dominate character
we do not have the luxury of waiting a couple months for the next issue. we have to wait years. we can't wait for the next version. we (the community) must do something when there is a single dominate character
You know, instead of concentrating on those two results, why dontcha take a peek at the other results happening around?
"proof of a healthy metagame".
Once again, I'm NOT saying I don't want MK taken care of.
Best of Midwest
28 entrants
$5 entry Fee, $10 singles
Parkforest, IL
1: Arty ($300)
2: Bowyer ($100)
3: Lain ($50)
4: Akashi
5: 7FO
5: Quik
7: Scythe
7: BO X7
http://allisbrawl.com/event.aspx?id=8271
STL: A Cool Cats Approach to Competitive Brawl($5 dollar entry)
St. Louis, MO
Saturday April 24th
30 Entrants. $5 Entry fee
1: MJG ($116.00)
2: Domo ($58.00)
3: Zeton ($20.00)
4: Fino
5: Nicole
5: Hylian
7: Future
7: Joker
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=272968
Here's 5 recent tourneys. I'm not saying I don't want MK taken care of, I'm just saying you guys shouldn't cherrypick tourneys, when every other tourney looks good enough to be called
"proof of a healthy metagame".
Once again, I'm NOT saying I don't want MK taken care of.
The current dominant character is, yes, but then another character becomes dominant, and even moreso over time. MK just did it a lot faster than most is all.
If you make a ruleset, there is guaranteed to be a character who is best given that ruleset. Over time, you'll see that character more and more until that is the only character used at high-level play except by very, very few players.
Florida? 2 top MKs, a couple decent ones, but lots of players who beat the top MKs.
And doesnt midwest has Judge, Capem, Kel, OS, Hateoni?
No problem at all, man. I agree though, people are so lazy these days... Instead of claiming that "our metagame is infested by MKs" and only recalling the few(er than the non-MK dominated,) MK-dominated tourneys, they should look up the Tourney Results Thread and see if their claim is true. Lying (even if accidental) won't get people to change sides! Instead, concentrate on logic and data, they will persuade for you since you can't argue against those facts.
Our metagame is not infested with MK in the top spots. Only tourneys here and there are, just like with Fox in Melee, Chun-Li in 3S, Sagat in SF4, and who knows what other characters of what other fighting games... And even examples of tourneys for those games are cherry-picked to back up arguments, which is providing incomplete information, which is the same as lying. Do you go around telling people that you've got a great immune system, instead of telling them that you've got a great immune system but still get sick with the same sicknesses as everyone does (I'm sure lots of us do, but please understand the example, which still holds true)? Incomplete information is misleading, guys.
And again, I'm not implying MK isn't a problem.
Ripple
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sorry, I meant to specify but forget. midwest west
He's saying that mk does better against diddy than pit does therefore mk's ratio should be better than pits. What you said doesn't parallel what he said so it shows no logical flaw.
O.o DK doesn't suck... where have you been?
he does vs MK.
Turbo Ether
Smash Master
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DK wins 6/4. All he has to do is hit him with a ground UpB and land a 9-punch. Also, DK lives forever and can spike MK for early kills!
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