Isn't that the equivalent to taking out ADHD and Ally from Brawl's CRL?
(Isn't this like really obvious)
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Official Metaknight Discussion
- Thread starter Hylian
- Start date
- Status
(Isn't this like really obvious)
adumbrodeus
Smash Legend
Except you didn't say, "source please" you just attacked him, and honestly, there was some elementary research you should've done.
Orion*
Smash Researcher
but he took like 9 out of the top twelve, even if hes not winning hes ban worthy because of overcentralization
Fortress | Sveet
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sort of, but not really.
The average state/local melee tournament that high ranking pros attend has between 20-30 entrants and these are the majority of the tournaments. Then there are larger regional tournaments that have 40-80 entrants. Now add in a worldwide tournament that literally has 10 times the entrants and twice the entry fee, and then put in characters winning that completely go against the data already collected.
Basically its just skewed results. The funny thing is, even with these massive boosts fox is still the character with the most points by a substantial amount (33%).
PND
Smash Champion
To ban or not to ban– that is the question:
Whether 'tis nobler in the game to suffer
The planking and scrooging of outrageous character design,
Or to take arms against a sea of metaknights
And, by opposing, beat them. To ban, to lose
No more – and by a ban to say we end
The frustration of the thousand gimped stocks
That character is heir to – ‘tis a resolution
Devoutly to be wished. To limit, to ban.
To ban, perchance to dream. Ay, there's the rub,
For in that ban of metaknight what dreams may come,
When we have shuffled off this broken character,
Must give us pause.
Whether 'tis nobler in the game to suffer
The planking and scrooging of outrageous character design,
Or to take arms against a sea of metaknights
And, by opposing, beat them. To ban, to lose
No more – and by a ban to say we end
The frustration of the thousand gimped stocks
That character is heir to – ‘tis a resolution
Devoutly to be wished. To limit, to ban.
To ban, perchance to dream. Ay, there's the rub,
For in that ban of metaknight what dreams may come,
When we have shuffled off this broken character,
Must give us pause.
Orion*
Smash Researcher
PND
Smash Champion
Not really. Took a few seconds of copy/paste and just replacing words. I'm actually anti-ban, for the record.
EDIT: Plus I have a broken ankle. Nothin' better to do.
EDIT: Plus I have a broken ankle. Nothin' better to do.
Humpy Thrashabout
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Mar 10, 2009
- Messages
- 294
Maybe I'm just confused, but that does sound exactly like the MK situation.
You're saying that Fox gets 33% more tournament points than the next highest character, right?
You said you did it in the same manner as Ankoku's data so I just went to the brawl one and it says:
MK: 4183.6 points
Snake: 2122.3
That's 197% more than Snake
If you meant he has 33% TOTAL points then it's still pretty similar.
Snake's points + MK's points make up 43.33% of the total points.
(MK's/ Snake+MK)*43.3% = 28.7% of the total.
This IS including ADHD and Ally (similar to the 2 players skewing the melee results). I don't know for sure, but I'd bet it would still produce similar results if you were to remove Hungrybox and Mango from the melee results and ADHD and Ally from the Brawl.
I think I'm just misunderstanding you. Could you clarify?
demonictoonlink
Smash Master
He's saying that those two people brought in the majority of those points at one or two massive tourneys, and Fox consistently wins.
adumbrodeus
Smash Legend
Jiggs isn't the number 2 character.
We should ban your ankle, then.
I don't think MK can be compared to Fox.
If we're counting outliers (like ADHD/Ally and Mango/Hbox), then we can see how every Fox player consistently loses to the same Jigglypuff mains, whereas MKs don't consistently lose to the same Snake/Diddy mains. I've seen Ally get 5th and lower in tourneys, I remember seeing ADHD NOT winning tourneys a while ago... But I don't remember Mango/Hbox ever lower than top 3 (maybe not Hbox, but Mango always wins). Even with the outliers, I still see MK taking loads of top spots at nationals (which is when usually the vast majority of top players gather, so we can arrive at this conclusion), sometimes even winning (not recently due to ADHD's and Ally's success)... But I can't say the same thing for Fox in Melee, I mean... Marths, Sheiks and Jigglypuffs are also sharing those top spots, sometimes even by Falcons, ICs and Peaches... Melee has more variety in the top placings, but Brawl has only Diddy, Snake and MK (rarely ever do we see any other characters at nationals).
If we're not using outliers, then now MK dominates the scene the same way that Fox does, which should be obvious because they're both the best characters of each game... And this domination is immensely obvious, I mean look at Sveet's posted tourney (or any other Melee tourney, but factor out Mango and Hbox), and then compare it to Pound4 without ADHD or Ally and every other national-sized tourney.
This has been said many times before, but I still see this as true. Fox doesn't have a pseudo-stalling strategy either, MK has planking/scrooging... Why all MKs don't do this is only because of the negative impact it's had on the community, and how top/high players don't want their images tarnished. Can you imagine a metagame where every MK would plank/scrooge? I bet that in that case, Fox wouldn't be able to be compared to MK in terms of dominance...
This is also a difference. In Melee, a character who isn't even near the top 3 best characters has been winning nationals for the longest while. In Brawl, it's been proven that only the other top 2 characters have a chance of beating MK at the top levels of play (Diddy and Snake), and there's only one main per character doing this, inconsistently (I want to see ADHD vs M2K at MLG before I eat my own words).
adumbrodeus
Smash Legend
To be fair, she's number 3 in tournament results.
The thing is... it's because of a few people as opposed to consistent tournament results by a large number of people.
Still, some people argue that jiggs is the best (M2K for example).
hotgarbage
Smash Lord
MLG ruleset has been released. So what was their solution to MK's broken planking...
[collapse=MLG Ruleset]General Rules
1. Players may not use a controller with Turbo capabilities or Wireless capabilities. Controllers with Turbo capabilities allow Players to map a button sequence to the Turbo button. Pressing that button results in their Character performing a set of actions that would normally require the Player to press multiple buttons.
2. Players may not use a controller that has been modified in such a way that it alters their Character’s abilities and/or in-game mechanics. Players may not use a controller that has been modified to include a Turbo button. Players are allowed to make cosmetic changes to their controller, however, Major League Gaming reserves the right to deny the use of any controller suspected of providing an unfair competitive advantage.
3. Players may not attach a headset to the Wii or TV.
4. Players/Teams who break General Rules #1-3 will be given a Warning. Each subsequent Warning that a Player/Team receives will result in a Forfeit of the Game (See Gameplay #3).
5. Players may not intentionally manipulate a button, trigger, bumper, D-Pad, and/or joystick on a teammate’s controller while a Game is in progress. Breaking this rule will result in a Forfeit of the Game.
6. Players may not appear on the Main Stage or Feature Station with sponsor insignia that is not approved by MLG or conflicts with MLG sponsors. Players may be asked to wear MLG apparel for Main Stage and Feature Station Matches.
7. In the case of a Wii/TV malfunction, the Game will be restarted from the beginning.
8. No Warm-Up Games may be played outside of scheduled Warm-Up periods.
9. During scheduled Warm-Up periods, all Games must be played with three Stock or less.
10. During scheduled Warm-Up periods, all Players must get up at the end of a Game and allow any Players, who have been waiting, to take their seat.
11. During Saturday and Sunday’s scheduled Warm-Up periods, Players/Teams who haven’t been eliminated from the Event have priority over other Players/Teams regarding the use of open Stations.
12. Players who break General Rules #8-11 may be given a Foul (See Pro Circuit Conduct Rules).
13. If a Player/Team fails to report to their Station within 5 minutes of their Match’s announcement, they will Forfeit the 1st Game. 10 minutes after the announcement, a Player/Team will Forfeit the Best of 3 Game Match or the 2nd Game of the Best of 5/7/11 Game Match. 15 minutes after the announcement, a Player/Team will Forfeit the Best of 5, Best of 7, or Best of 11 Game Match. If both Players/Teams Forfeit the Match, the higher seeded Player/Team will win the Match.
14. Players/Teams may Forfeit a Game or Match if a Player leaves their Station without their Referee’s permission, or is otherwise unable to play. Referees may set a time limit for a Player who has requested that they be allowed to leave their Station, however, Referees may also deny a Player’s request to leave their Station. Players/Teams may Forfeit a Game or Match if a Player hasn’t returned by the end of their Referee’s set time limit.
Gameplay
1. No use of Marth’s Grab Release Infinites against Lucas and Ness.
2. No use of King Dedede’s Grab Infinites against Bowser, Donkey Kong, Luigi, Samus, and Mario.
3. Players/Teams who break Gameplay Rules #1-2 will be given a Warning. Each subsequent Warning that a Player/Team receives will result in a Forfeit of the Game (See General Rules #4).
4. No use of Metaknight’s Infinite Cape Glitch.
5. No Pausing a Game without Referee’s permission.
6. No use of an action that freezes a Game, or otherwise disrupts standard gameplay.
7. Any Infinite Move must end before the affected Character reaches 300%.
8. Breaking any of Gameplay Rules #4-7 will result in a Forfeit of the Game.
9. Any sign of cheating may result in a Forfeit of the Game, disqualification from the Event, and ejection from the venue. Players who are disqualified from the Event won’t receive any Rank Points for their ranking in the Event.
10. The higher seeded Player/Team must choose their Controller Port(s) first. The lower seeded Player/Team may use any of the remaining Controller Ports. In the 1v1 Finals, the Player without a Match loss must choose their Controller Port first. In the 1v1 Finals, the Player with a Match loss may use any of the remaining Controller Ports.
11. Players may request a Blind Pick of Characters for the Game 1 of a Match.
12. For Game 1 of each Match, the higher seeded Player/Team must strike three Stages from the list of Starter Stages. The lower seeded Player/Team must then strike 4 Stages from the list of Starter Stages. The higher seeded Player/Team must then choose the Game 1 Stage from the remaining Starter Stages.
13. After the Stage has been selected for Game 1 of a Match, each Player may select one Stage, from the list of Starter Stages or Counter-Pick Stages, that can’t be chosen for Games 2-11.
14. The loser of a Game must select the Stage for the next Game. The Stage for Games 2-11 can be selected from the list of Starter Stages or Counter-Pick Stages.
15. After the Stage a Game 2-11 has been selected, the winner of the previous Game must select their Character(s), for the upcoming Game, first. The loser of the Game must then choose their Character(s) for the upcoming Game.
16. If the Timer runs out, the winner of the Game will be determined by the following criteria in this order: Stock and Percentage. If Stock is used to determine a winner, the highest number will win. If Percentage is used to determine a winner, the lowest number will win. If both Stock and Percentage are tied, Sudden Death won’t be used and a Tiebreaker Round will be played instead. In a Tiebreaker Round, Stock will be set to 1, the Timer will be set to 4 Minutes, and the same Stage and Characters must be used.
17. If the Timer runs out and one Player exceeds the Edge Grab Limit for that Game’s Stage, that Player will Forfeit the Game. However, if the Timer runs out and both Players exceed the Edge Grab Limit for that Game’s Stage, the penalty will not be enforced (See Gameplay Rules #16). The Edge Grab Limit on Norfair will be 45. The Edge Grab Limit on all other Stages will be 35. The Edge Grab Limits only apply to Games/Tiebreaker Rounds in which the Timer runs out.
18. If a Game is started without the approval of a Referee it will be restarted.
19. Players on the same Team may not select the same Character for a 2v2 Game.
For Videos of all of the Gameplay Rule’s illegal maneuvers, go here:
http://www.mlgpro.com/forum/showthread.php?t=304286
Settings
1. Rules = Stock
2. Stock = 3
3. Timer = 8 Minutes
4. Items = Off & None
Starter Stages
Battlefield
Castle Siege
Delfino Plaza
Final Destination
Halberd
Lylat Cruise
Pokémon Stadium
Smashville
Yoshi’s Island
Counter-Pick Stages
Brinstar
Frigate Orpheon
Green Greens
Norfair
Pictochat
Pokémon Stadium 2
Rainbow Cruise [/collapse]
Strict, metagame-altering universal ledge grab limits make me sad face
. Then again maybe they opted for that because they don't want any kind of planking going on due to it being "hella gay" or some crap. Their games need to be marketable after all but yargleblarglyfajelknvk I dunno :x. Curious to note that scrooging is not limited in any way or form. This could potentially be fun.
*gives falco the finger*
[collapse=MLG Ruleset]General Rules
1. Players may not use a controller with Turbo capabilities or Wireless capabilities. Controllers with Turbo capabilities allow Players to map a button sequence to the Turbo button. Pressing that button results in their Character performing a set of actions that would normally require the Player to press multiple buttons.
2. Players may not use a controller that has been modified in such a way that it alters their Character’s abilities and/or in-game mechanics. Players may not use a controller that has been modified to include a Turbo button. Players are allowed to make cosmetic changes to their controller, however, Major League Gaming reserves the right to deny the use of any controller suspected of providing an unfair competitive advantage.
3. Players may not attach a headset to the Wii or TV.
4. Players/Teams who break General Rules #1-3 will be given a Warning. Each subsequent Warning that a Player/Team receives will result in a Forfeit of the Game (See Gameplay #3).
5. Players may not intentionally manipulate a button, trigger, bumper, D-Pad, and/or joystick on a teammate’s controller while a Game is in progress. Breaking this rule will result in a Forfeit of the Game.
6. Players may not appear on the Main Stage or Feature Station with sponsor insignia that is not approved by MLG or conflicts with MLG sponsors. Players may be asked to wear MLG apparel for Main Stage and Feature Station Matches.
7. In the case of a Wii/TV malfunction, the Game will be restarted from the beginning.
8. No Warm-Up Games may be played outside of scheduled Warm-Up periods.
9. During scheduled Warm-Up periods, all Games must be played with three Stock or less.
10. During scheduled Warm-Up periods, all Players must get up at the end of a Game and allow any Players, who have been waiting, to take their seat.
11. During Saturday and Sunday’s scheduled Warm-Up periods, Players/Teams who haven’t been eliminated from the Event have priority over other Players/Teams regarding the use of open Stations.
12. Players who break General Rules #8-11 may be given a Foul (See Pro Circuit Conduct Rules).
13. If a Player/Team fails to report to their Station within 5 minutes of their Match’s announcement, they will Forfeit the 1st Game. 10 minutes after the announcement, a Player/Team will Forfeit the Best of 3 Game Match or the 2nd Game of the Best of 5/7/11 Game Match. 15 minutes after the announcement, a Player/Team will Forfeit the Best of 5, Best of 7, or Best of 11 Game Match. If both Players/Teams Forfeit the Match, the higher seeded Player/Team will win the Match.
14. Players/Teams may Forfeit a Game or Match if a Player leaves their Station without their Referee’s permission, or is otherwise unable to play. Referees may set a time limit for a Player who has requested that they be allowed to leave their Station, however, Referees may also deny a Player’s request to leave their Station. Players/Teams may Forfeit a Game or Match if a Player hasn’t returned by the end of their Referee’s set time limit.
Gameplay
1. No use of Marth’s Grab Release Infinites against Lucas and Ness.
2. No use of King Dedede’s Grab Infinites against Bowser, Donkey Kong, Luigi, Samus, and Mario.
3. Players/Teams who break Gameplay Rules #1-2 will be given a Warning. Each subsequent Warning that a Player/Team receives will result in a Forfeit of the Game (See General Rules #4).
4. No use of Metaknight’s Infinite Cape Glitch.
5. No Pausing a Game without Referee’s permission.
6. No use of an action that freezes a Game, or otherwise disrupts standard gameplay.
7. Any Infinite Move must end before the affected Character reaches 300%.
8. Breaking any of Gameplay Rules #4-7 will result in a Forfeit of the Game.
9. Any sign of cheating may result in a Forfeit of the Game, disqualification from the Event, and ejection from the venue. Players who are disqualified from the Event won’t receive any Rank Points for their ranking in the Event.
10. The higher seeded Player/Team must choose their Controller Port(s) first. The lower seeded Player/Team may use any of the remaining Controller Ports. In the 1v1 Finals, the Player without a Match loss must choose their Controller Port first. In the 1v1 Finals, the Player with a Match loss may use any of the remaining Controller Ports.
11. Players may request a Blind Pick of Characters for the Game 1 of a Match.
12. For Game 1 of each Match, the higher seeded Player/Team must strike three Stages from the list of Starter Stages. The lower seeded Player/Team must then strike 4 Stages from the list of Starter Stages. The higher seeded Player/Team must then choose the Game 1 Stage from the remaining Starter Stages.
13. After the Stage has been selected for Game 1 of a Match, each Player may select one Stage, from the list of Starter Stages or Counter-Pick Stages, that can’t be chosen for Games 2-11.
14. The loser of a Game must select the Stage for the next Game. The Stage for Games 2-11 can be selected from the list of Starter Stages or Counter-Pick Stages.
15. After the Stage a Game 2-11 has been selected, the winner of the previous Game must select their Character(s), for the upcoming Game, first. The loser of the Game must then choose their Character(s) for the upcoming Game.
16. If the Timer runs out, the winner of the Game will be determined by the following criteria in this order: Stock and Percentage. If Stock is used to determine a winner, the highest number will win. If Percentage is used to determine a winner, the lowest number will win. If both Stock and Percentage are tied, Sudden Death won’t be used and a Tiebreaker Round will be played instead. In a Tiebreaker Round, Stock will be set to 1, the Timer will be set to 4 Minutes, and the same Stage and Characters must be used.
17. If the Timer runs out and one Player exceeds the Edge Grab Limit for that Game’s Stage, that Player will Forfeit the Game. However, if the Timer runs out and both Players exceed the Edge Grab Limit for that Game’s Stage, the penalty will not be enforced (See Gameplay Rules #16). The Edge Grab Limit on Norfair will be 45. The Edge Grab Limit on all other Stages will be 35. The Edge Grab Limits only apply to Games/Tiebreaker Rounds in which the Timer runs out.
18. If a Game is started without the approval of a Referee it will be restarted.
19. Players on the same Team may not select the same Character for a 2v2 Game.
For Videos of all of the Gameplay Rule’s illegal maneuvers, go here:
http://www.mlgpro.com/forum/showthread.php?t=304286
Settings
1. Rules = Stock
2. Stock = 3
3. Timer = 8 Minutes
4. Items = Off & None
Starter Stages
Battlefield
Castle Siege
Delfino Plaza
Final Destination
Halberd
Lylat Cruise
Pokémon Stadium
Smashville
Yoshi’s Island
Counter-Pick Stages
Brinstar
Frigate Orpheon
Green Greens
Norfair
Pictochat
Pokémon Stadium 2
Rainbow Cruise [/collapse]
Strict, metagame-altering universal ledge grab limits make me sad face
. Then again maybe they opted for that because they don't want any kind of planking going on due to it being "hella gay" or some crap. Their games need to be marketable after all but yargleblarglyfajelknvk I dunno :x. Curious to note that scrooging is not limited in any way or form. This could potentially be fun.*gives falco the finger*
He was referring to both Jiggs and Falco. Not just Jiggs.
EDIT: EGADS THE STAGE LIST.
Well, at least Japes isn't on there. Hopefully people will play so amazingly boringly on Norfair they'll realize it has to be banned.
Judo777
Smash Master
- Joined
- Sep 9, 2008
- Messages
- 3,627
I know this isn't necessarily super relevant mostly cause i didnt play much melee, but a key difference between MK and Fox is that in melee fox was from what i hear an extremely difficult character to use. M2K himself said in an interview he stopped using him cause it was far too inconsistent using fox because of his difficulty. MK on the other hand is a fairly easy character to use rather effectively and he has an easy learning curve.
Justblaze647
Smash Lord
Pokemon Stadium 2?
Fortress | Sveet
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Difficulty of use is irrelevant, especially for melee. You're talking about a group of people who learned how to do things frame perfectly when it was only marginally better than what was done before.
M2K is just a scrub and anytime he loses he says that character is broken.
You think MK is broken? Try fighting someone who has the fastest projectile, the fastest move speed, the best priority, and can do twice as many safe attacks per second than you. If he forces you to shield, you're pretty much dead because he can cover all of your shield options safely. If you wiff and attack, he is on top of you and can combo you until you're dead or have a huge chunk of damage. If you're hit off stage, he can edge guard every character perfectly.
I guess the only logical conclusion is to ban him, right?
M2K is just a scrub and anytime he loses he says that character is broken.
You think MK is broken? Try fighting someone who has the fastest projectile, the fastest move speed, the best priority, and can do twice as many safe attacks per second than you. If he forces you to shield, you're pretty much dead because he can cover all of your shield options safely. If you wiff and attack, he is on top of you and can combo you until you're dead or have a huge chunk of damage. If you're hit off stage, he can edge guard every character perfectly.
I guess the only logical conclusion is to ban him, right?
adumbrodeus
Smash Legend
Fair enough.
You neglect to mention that one good proper prediction, and most characters can kill him automatically.
don't see how you take that as an attack, I just point out that it's a questionable assertion without the numbers being available and that a simple link to such a thing would strengthen his argument
...
why is this thread not locked
Fortress | Sveet
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Why would fox get hit? And no, its definitely not automatic. The only characters that have any sort of true 0-death combos on fox are marth and DK, everyone else has to use a combination of DI abuse and tech prediction.
adumbrodeus
Smash Legend
Check out my character icon...
I have a sword, a lot of characters have similar ways to abuse fox is they predict his approach, ultimately it comes down to prediction and counter prediction, like always in melee.
Fair enough, but remember the internet doesn't have facial expressions, so now we know your intent, but we couldn't read that from what you said.
Fortress | Sveet
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Lol yeah....
Anyways, my point is that MK isn't much different than fox in melee. Hes good. Hes really good. Hes "impossible" to beat. Yet some people can do it.
Let your game grow more, learn how to beat MK. He will probably stay the best character in the game, but banning him just because he is the best won't do any good.
edit: heres the compiled data from the tournaments i've reincluded so far:
83 top8 placings in 35 tournaments...
Anyways, my point is that MK isn't much different than fox in melee. Hes good. Hes really good. Hes "impossible" to beat. Yet some people can do it.
Let your game grow more, learn how to beat MK. He will probably stay the best character in the game, but banning him just because he is the best won't do any good.
edit: heres the compiled data from the tournaments i've reincluded so far:
Code:
Tournaments: 35
Fox (33 Top8, 22 Top4, 15 Top2, 13 Wins, 83 Total) 519.3906 Points
Falco (21 Top8, 9 Top4, 3 Top2, 7 Wins, 40 Total) 236.3229 Points
Captain Falcon (14 Top8, 15 Top4, 4 Top2, 3 Wins, 36 Total) 193.7292 Points
Marth (20 Top8, 15 Top4, 5 Top2, 5 Wins, 45 Total) 181.349 Points
Sheik (24 Top8, 6 Top4, 7 Top2, 2 Wins, 39 Total) 168.6406 Points
Jigglypuff (8 Top8, 1 Top4, 1 Top2, 6 Wins, 16 Total) 104.2708 Pointsadumbrodeus
Smash Legend
I understand, and lord knows I'm not going pro ban any time soon (unless perfect mathematically data derived MU ratios and empirical MU ratios appear which show that he negates 75% of the otherwise viable cast in the next [insert timeframe for "soon"]), but as somebody who's been playing this game for a long time, and also has played melee for a long time, MK strikes me as considerably worse then fox as far as dominance goes. More like fox if everyone above Ganondorf didn't exist except for Fox (if that), but, my impressions are not what I consider relevant for deciding bans.
That except planking, at this point, I'm concerned that we simply can't ban it in a way that will actually stop it, and that will incontrovertibly send MK into Super Turbo Akuma territory.
- Joined
- Feb 6, 2009
- Messages
- 11,841
I've said this multiple times but people keep doing it.
Fortress | Sveet
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OK so don't compare brawl to its most similar game, but its completely ok to compare individual characters out of context to characters from completely different fighting genres... right.
MarKO X
Smash Champion
- Joined
- Mar 18, 2008
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- 2,542
- Location
- Brooklyn
- NNID
- legendnumberM
- 3DS FC
- 2595-2072-2390
- Switch FC
- 531664639998
The reaction to the character is the biggest problem that MK is causing.
Every little thing that MK does comes out with this amazing outcry.
MK was found out to be really really good on certain stages, people cried, and those stages got removed from various stage lists.
MK planked, people cried, and that resulted in LGLs, without knowing if planking was beatable or not.
MK air camped, people cried.
MK found a way to be invisible and invincible for as long as he wanted, and that glitch was banned within an hour of the video coming up on youtube.
MK scrooges, people cried, and now people want a way to limit that on top of the LGLs that caused scrooging in the first place.
And it goes deeper than that. I have seen and heard many people say both on the boards and in person that they've lost to an MK that was obviously not as skilled as they were, since you know, MK is easy to use, has no bad macthups, etc. This view of MK is also a problem.
I'm sure there's more, but I'm going to have to admit that I've gotten tired of typing for the moment...
and lol @ MLG's rules.
- Joined
- Feb 6, 2009
- Messages
- 11,841
brawl and melee are not even similar.
and no that's been frowned upon too, multiple times.
Fortress | Sveet
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Lmao ok so what argument do you even have if you can't compare brawl to anything? none.
Judo777
Smash Master
- Joined
- Sep 9, 2008
- Messages
- 3,627
you think ps2 and norfair are bad what about freaking green greens lol random bombs.
the other really dumb thing is that the higher seeded player gets to pick his controller port sweet now ally will always get 4th port priority. Also higher seed picks stage is kind of unfair.
the other really dumb thing is that the higher seeded player gets to pick his controller port sweet now ally will always get 4th port priority. Also higher seed picks stage is kind of unfair.
adumbrodeus
Smash Legend
I get the feeling that I'll be linking to this thread a lot, but Green Greens is all about stage knowledge, it's not unfair at all when you know how to use it properly.
Controller ports based on seeding is annoying but for teams... could've been done so much better using the standard.
Budget Player Cadet_
Smash Hero
[collapse=MLG Ruleset]General Rules
Gameplay
1. No use of Marth’s Grab Release Infinites against Lucas and Ness. Haha oh wow... Scrubs?
2. No use of King Dedede’s Grab Infinites against Bowser, Donkey Kong, Luigi, Samus, and Mario. Oh wow, seriously? Wasn't I constantly told that this was a bad thing to ban?
17. If the Timer runs out and one Player exceeds the Edge Grab Limit for that Game’s Stage, that Player will Forfeit the Game. However, if the Timer runs out and both Players exceed the Edge Grab Limit for that Game’s Stage, the penalty will not be enforced (See Gameplay Rules #16). The Edge Grab Limit on Norfair will be 45. The Edge Grab Limit on all other Stages will be 35. The Edge Grab Limits only apply to Games/Tiebreaker Rounds in which the Timer runs out. Thank you for nerfing Game and Watch, Pit, and a few other characters who don't need it. Like, WOW. Good going.
19. Players on the same Team may not select the same Character for a 2v2 Game. O.o What the hell? This one doesn't even make any sense!
Starter Stages
Battlefield
Castle Siege
Delfino Plaza
Final Destination
Halberd YESZ!
Lylat Cruise
Pokémon Stadium
Smashville
Yoshi’s Island
I really like this, actually. Very wide selection of starters is, IMO, a good thing. Slightly worried about DDD on CS and a PS1 in general, but all in all? Good starter set.
Counter-Pick Stages
Brinstar
Frigate Orpheon
Green Greens YESZ!
Norfair
Pictochat
Pokémon Stadium 2
Rainbow Cruise
Scrubby, scrubby set. Let's see... there are 4 (!!!) things here that are banned without good reason (although ness/lucas/DK/Bowser/Luigi mains will rejoice, I guess).
But what really makes me interested is that MK has two stages where he's arguably bad. Halberd and GG. GG is a genuinely bad stage for metaknight! Not horrible, but one of the stages where his movement style doesn't fit. That, plus a really low ceiling is fun or him, I guess. He'll probably ban that vs. Snake, but then Snake still has Halberd, and we know that Snake does pretty well against MK there... RC makes me sadface though.
Then there's the factor that there are quite a few starters that aren't the best stages for ICs and Diddy... yeah, I'm liking this stage list more and more.
Thank you, Adum; GG IS a counterpick.
However, to come back to the rules... MLG IS SCRUBBY
MLG IS SCRUBBY
MLG IS SCRUBBY
MLG IS SCRUBBY
MLG IS SCRUBBY
MLG IS SCRUBBY
MLG IS SCRUBBY
MLG IS SCRUBBY
Gameplay
1. No use of Marth’s Grab Release Infinites against Lucas and Ness. Haha oh wow... Scrubs?
2. No use of King Dedede’s Grab Infinites against Bowser, Donkey Kong, Luigi, Samus, and Mario. Oh wow, seriously? Wasn't I constantly told that this was a bad thing to ban?
17. If the Timer runs out and one Player exceeds the Edge Grab Limit for that Game’s Stage, that Player will Forfeit the Game. However, if the Timer runs out and both Players exceed the Edge Grab Limit for that Game’s Stage, the penalty will not be enforced (See Gameplay Rules #16). The Edge Grab Limit on Norfair will be 45. The Edge Grab Limit on all other Stages will be 35. The Edge Grab Limits only apply to Games/Tiebreaker Rounds in which the Timer runs out. Thank you for nerfing Game and Watch, Pit, and a few other characters who don't need it. Like, WOW. Good going.
19. Players on the same Team may not select the same Character for a 2v2 Game. O.o What the hell? This one doesn't even make any sense!
Starter Stages
Battlefield
Castle Siege
Delfino Plaza
Final Destination
Halberd YESZ!
Lylat Cruise
Pokémon Stadium
Smashville
Yoshi’s Island
I really like this, actually. Very wide selection of starters is, IMO, a good thing. Slightly worried about DDD on CS and a PS1 in general, but all in all? Good starter set.
Counter-Pick Stages
Brinstar
Frigate Orpheon
Green Greens YESZ!
Norfair
Pictochat
Pokémon Stadium 2
Rainbow Cruise
Scrubby, scrubby set. Let's see... there are 4 (!!!) things here that are banned without good reason (although ness/lucas/DK/Bowser/Luigi mains will rejoice, I guess).
But what really makes me interested is that MK has two stages where he's arguably bad. Halberd and GG. GG is a genuinely bad stage for metaknight! Not horrible, but one of the stages where his movement style doesn't fit. That, plus a really low ceiling is fun or him, I guess. He'll probably ban that vs. Snake, but then Snake still has Halberd, and we know that Snake does pretty well against MK there... RC makes me sadface though.
Then there's the factor that there are quite a few starters that aren't the best stages for ICs and Diddy... yeah, I'm liking this stage list more and more.
Thank you, Adum; GG IS a counterpick.
However, to come back to the rules... MLG IS SCRUBBY
MLG IS SCRUBBY
MLG IS SCRUBBY
MLG IS SCRUBBY
MLG IS SCRUBBY
MLG IS SCRUBBY
MLG IS SCRUBBY
MLG IS SCRUBBY
AllyKnight
Banned via Administration
Also Mango lost to Kage at ROM2. he got lower than 3rd 
adumbrodeus
Smash Legend
Honestly, I personally agree, but I cannot say much more without it being a leak, but there's plenty of stuff to be pissed off about here. I'm sure the BBR will have an official statement on this very soon.[collapse=MLG Ruleset]General Rules
Gameplay
1. No use of Marth’s Grab Release Infinites against Lucas and Ness. Haha oh wow... Scrubs?
2. No use of King Dedede’s Grab Infinites against Bowser, Donkey Kong, Luigi, Samus, and Mario. Oh wow, seriously? Wasn't I constantly told that this was a bad thing to ban?
17. If the Timer runs out and one Player exceeds the Edge Grab Limit for that Game’s Stage, that Player will Forfeit the Game. However, if the Timer runs out and both Players exceed the Edge Grab Limit for that Game’s Stage, the penalty will not be enforced (See Gameplay Rules #16). The Edge Grab Limit on Norfair will be 45. The Edge Grab Limit on all other Stages will be 35. The Edge Grab Limits only apply to Games/Tiebreaker Rounds in which the Timer runs out. Thank you for nerfing Game and Watch, Pit, and a few other characters who don't need it. Like, WOW. Good going.
19. Players on the same Team may not select the same Character for a 2v2 Game. O.o What the hell? This one doesn't even make any sense!
Starter Stages
Battlefield
Castle Siege
Delfino Plaza
Final Destination
Halberd YESZ!
Lylat Cruise
Pokémon Stadium
Smashville
Yoshi’s Island
I really like this, actually. Very wide selection of starters is, IMO, a good thing. Slightly worried about DDD on CS and a PS1 in general, but all in all? Good starter set.
Counter-Pick Stages
Brinstar
Frigate Orpheon
Green Greens YESZ!
Norfair
Pictochat
Pokémon Stadium 2
Rainbow Cruise
Scrubby, scrubby set. Let's see... there are 4 (!!!) things here that are banned without good reason (although ness/lucas/DK/Bowser/Luigi mains will rejoice, I guess).
But what really makes me interested is that MK has two stages where he's arguably bad. Halberd and GG. GG is a genuinely bad stage for metaknight! Not horrible, but one of the stages where his movement style doesn't fit. That, plus a really low ceiling is fun or him, I guess. He'll probably ban that vs. Snake, but then Snake still has Halberd, and we know that Snake does pretty well against MK there... RC makes me sadface though.
Then there's the factor that there are quite a few starters that aren't the best stages for ICs and Diddy... yeah, I'm liking this stage list more and more.
Thank you, Adum; GG IS a counterpick.
However, to come back to the rules... MLG IS SCRUBBY
MLG IS SCRUBBY
MLG IS SCRUBBY
MLG IS SCRUBBY
MLG IS SCRUBBY
MLG IS SCRUBBY
MLG IS SCRUBBY
MLG IS SCRUBBY
Also, nobody is noticing that "team attack is on" isn't in the ruleset.
demonictoonlink
Smash Master
At least double Falco with team attack off isn't a possibility
Masmasher@
Smash Lord
sveet i dont really think they are arguing dominace anymore..
Budget Player Cadet_
Smash Hero
WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAT? Please tell me this is just an oversight and it's going to be on in tournaments. Isn't this like, a TERRIBLE idea?
Ike+Falco lol
Me and the B- chat just brainstormed like 50 ways to break the **** out of this in 10 minutes.
adumbrodeus
Smash Legend
Dear God I hope it's just an oversight.
But as I said, there should be an official BBR statement soon.
Speaking of which, I think I'll drop by the chat, so busy lately, haven't been involved.
- Status