Official Metaknight Discussion

[adumbrodeus]

I can already tell how it's going to work out.

ADHD places first, M2K second, Ally 3rd, and random high-level MKs get like 4-12. Then anti-ban will hold on tightly to the whole idea that you can get as good as ADHD/Ally, pro-ban will be left looking like idiots screaming "OUTLIERS" at a situation similar to a hurricane hitting the ****ing himalayas.

I think I should start figuring out TOs to PM for OMBR.

I believe you're assuming M2K doesn't steal shadow's secrets.


Or talk to NL.

 

[demonictoonlink]

I see Ally, ADHD, M2K, in that order.

And it won't matter what M2K does; he'll lose to ADHD for the time being.

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

Well yeah... even if it is M2K first, ADHD second, Ally third, anti-ban will still see this as proof that he's "not dominating". I wish Ally and ADHD were doing this with low tier chars. Would make it obvious that they're what they are.

 

[fkacyan]

Well yeah... even if it is M2K first, ADHD second, Ally third, anti-ban will still see this as proof that he's "not dominating". I wish Ally and ADHD were doing this with low tier chars. Would make it obvious that they're what they are.

You intend to say that they would be winning regardless of the character they chose?

-_-

 

[Kaffei]

Well yeah... even if it is M2K first, ADHD second, Ally third, anti-ban will still see this as proof that he's "not dominating". I wish Ally and ADHD were doing this with low tier chars. Would make it obvious that they're what they are.

Then won't pro ban just use that as an excuse for an excuse to ban him

 

[WindMajor]

If there's a LGL in place in the ruleset, my guess is that this will happen.

The usual Top 3, with a planking M2K on top, and Ally/ADHD in any order.
1.
2.
3.

Flood of Metaknights.

4.
5.
6.
7.
8.
9.
10.
11.

Another character.
12.

 

[demonictoonlink]

Well yeah... even if it is M2K first, ADHD second, Ally third, anti-ban will still see this as proof that he's "not dominating". I wish Ally and ADHD were doing this with low tier chars. Would make it obvious that they're what they are.

It just couldn't be done lol.

The fact is, it isn't just them. Yeah, they are outstanding players and all, but they also play outstanding characters. Amazing players playing amazing characters. Maybe these characters aren't as good as MK, but it's obvious they can compete.

Honestly, I wish every member of the pro-ban would just main a top six character and see how the feel after awhile. Not saying they won't still think MK is broken, but low tier perspective is out of place in the Metaknight discussion, as it is with the high tier discussion in general.

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

You intend to say that they would be winning regardless of the character they chose?

-_-

No, of course not. I'm stupid, but not that stupid. I'm saying that if it was, for example, DLA and Reflex getting 1st and 3rd at pound instead of ADHD and Ally, then it would be quite obvious that what we have here are two outliers playing lousy characters and winning against ridiculous odds. As opposed to two people who are slightly ahead of the others.

Then won't pro ban just use that as an excuse for an excuse to ban him

I don't understand what you mean.

If there's a LGL in place in the ruleset, my guess is that this will happen.

The usual Top 3, with a planking M2K on top, and Ally/ADHD in any order.
1.
2.
3.

Flood of Metaknights.

4.
5.
6.
7.
8.
9.
10.
11.

Another character.
12.

Pretty much this.

EDIT: @DLT: It is kind of just them. Look at pound; we have 3-4 players who are beating the top MKs with lesser characters. I would love to see an updated version of Flayl's chart, TBH.

And I don't main ROB in vBrawl, kthx. I main MK. Need to find me some ****ing tournaments. Friggin' germany.

EDIt2: I got this great new avvy and it won't let me use it... Karma?

 

[Orion*]

i love how those arent the moves or reasons mk is gay.

 

[theunabletable]

If there's a LGL in place in the ruleset, my guess is that this will happen.

The usual Top 3, with a planking M2K on top, and Ally/ADHD in any order.

Why would you assume that M2K tops Ally and ADHD THIS time?

 

[AllyKnight]

ima **** *****es from now on at every tourney, 1st is all I will accept.

 

[fkacyan]

ima **** *****es from now on at every tourney, 1st is all I will accept.

For some reason I imagine your avatar saying this and it's absolutely hilarious.

Oh, late night musings.

 

[Kaffei]

Didn't Sheik do that with dthrow dsmash and needles

 

[fkacyan]

Didn't Sheik do that with dthrow dsmash and needles

You're forgetting fair.

 

[Masmasher@]

so what happens when mk keep coming in third after a while...i mean they outliers but i mean would pro ban start to question themselves

 

[Kaffei]

You're forgetting fair.

ftilt to fair = -_-

 

[Jack Kieser]

So, any word on when MLG is going to release the actual Brawl ruleset so we can see exactly how f**cked this season is going to be?

 

[Karcist]

so what happens when mk keep coming in third after a while...i mean they outliers but i mean would pro ban start to question themselves

Nope. I've said it many times, they are just anecdotes and don't represent the big picture.

Tournament results would make me question myself, but that doesn't seem to be changing all too fast.

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

so what happens when mk keep coming in third after a while...i mean they outliers but i mean would pro ban start to question themselves

We start doubting ourselves when MK doesn't get almost every other place in important tournaments. I honestly wouldn't be so disturbed if not for Flayl and Crow's charts. It's like the weightlifting champ being able to go toe to toe with someone from an superstrong alien race in a wrestling match.

I think the main issue here is that Pro-bans who hold on to the whole "MK hasn't won a national in X long" issue see the causes for it as a trend, as opposed to an exception to the rule. If there were more than 6 people beating top MKs more than once, I would almost agree.

 

[1048576]

Wait, there are six!? I count two.

 

[etecoon]

it depends on whose data you feel like regurgitating without doing any real observation of your own, but I suppose that's the best you have to go on when you don't play this game competitively and don't go to tournaments anyway

 

[gallax]

so i read a post last night from the MLG guys stating that MK will not be banned at the tourney. looks like this discussion is over for now.

 

[WindMajor]

No it isn't.

We can still discuss how the rules (that haven't been announced yet) will affect MK and MLG.

 

[Master Raven]

Did anyone honestly believe there'd be even a sliver of a chance that MLG would ban MK for their first season?

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

Also, I see no reason for the BBR to not encourage non-MLG events to be MK banned.

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

Wait, there are six!? I count two.

ADHD and Ally aren't the only ones, surprisingly. Remember, it's not repeatedly and recently; it's more than once at all.

it depends on whose data you feel like regurgitating without doing any real observation of your own, but I suppose that's the best you have to go on when you don't play this game competitively and don't go to tournaments anyway

Hey look, a textbook ad hominem. What a great post. Want to compile the data yourself and show me I'm wrong? Or rather, that Flayl is wrong?

 

[fkacyan]

Also, I see no reason for the BBR to not encourage non-MLG events to be MK banned.

... Except for the reason that the biggest tourney would have MK and thus you'd be missing practice against him? That's a fairly large reason.

I would advocate replacing either low tiers (Preferably) or maybe even doubles (If you really have to) with an MK-banned side event to help gather data.

 

[etecoon]

Hey look, a textbook ad hominem. What a great post.

people that don't understand logical fallacies shouldn't bring them up lmfao

people that don't go to tournaments arguing over what should be done at tournaments is confusing enough as it is

 

[Flayl]

MK-banned side events are worthless because of the competition involved. There's no reason to play as "gay" as possible.

edit: That goes for any side-event really.

 

[Jack Kieser]

MK-banned side events are worthless because of the competition involved. There's no reason to play as "gay" as possible.

edit: That goes for any side-event really.

Exactly. This is why it will be impossible to gather data on a MK-banned metagame while the MLG circuit is in progress... which means we're screwed for quite a while.

 

[fkacyan]

MK-banned side events are worthless because of the competition involved. There's no reason to play as "gay" as possible.

edit: That goes for any side-event really.

If I hold an MK banned side event for $5 entry, that means the winnings are half of what one would win in the full singles event. I can't see why people wouldn't play as gay as possible in order to win money.

That's how I understand side events to work, anyhow. Maybe they're different in other regions?

 

[Flayl]

The difference is you practice for the main event and don't give two ****s for the side-events, they're just for "fun".

Maybe you could find someone who takes low tiers doubles very seriously. But they're not the majority.

 

[Tarmogoyf]

Really, what does data from Meta banned tournies give us anyways? It's nice to know if the Metagame is more/less diverse, but that in itself isn't a reason to ban MK. Characters like D3 are worse for low tiers most of the time anyways.

Meta banned events are best to show that you want him banned IMO.

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

people that don't understand logical fallacies shouldn't bring them up lmfao

people that don't go to tournaments arguing over what should be done at tournaments is confusing enough as it is

How is it not ad hominem?

Me: I'm worried mostly because of the data Flayl gathered showing how few people have beaten top MKs more than once in their carrier
You: Your argument is invalid because you don't go to tournaments.

Textbook ad hominem-attacking the debater, not the argument.

MK-banned side events are worthless because of the competition involved. There's no reason to play as "gay" as possible.

edit: That goes for any side-event really.

Flayl, where did you get the data for your chart?

EDIT:@Goyf: STFU, more noobs want you banned.

 

[OverLade]

Characters like D3 are worse for low tiers most of the time anyways.

Nobody uses Dedede/other characters like that because of MK

 

[o-Serin-o]

I do


Cuz D3 is cool.

 

[OverLade]

I do


Cuz D3 is cool.

lol do any MKs even live in your state?

 

[Flayl]

Flayl, where did you get the data for your chart?

The links given to Ankoku in the CRL plus some digging around in AllIsBrawl.

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

The links given to Ankoku in the CRL plus some digging around in AllIsBrawl.

Are you keeping it updated? If not, am I too lazy or not? :V

 

[Tarmogoyf]

EDIT:@Goyf: STFU, more noobs want you banned.

Sweet sweet Irony: I'm proban. New Mexico has had MK banned since November 08.

I don't think Meta banned events help one bit though. Sadly, banning MK in a small region just makes us less prepared. It's better to play him to show he is everywhere and support your cause lol.