Official MBR Tier List

[LAX_]

Well yeah, you're right. I think the best Pichu was probably KDJ, but i've heard i think Cactuar has a good Pichu lol.
No offense to Pichu, but he is so limited that the "best" Pichu would probably be someone who is amazing at smash (like the two listed above).

 

[JPOBS]

falco is the best character in the game at top level play this much is obvious. his only weakness is his recovery and gimpability but top falco's rarely get gimped because they know how to avoid those danger situations.

Fox is basically falco with better recovery but worse stage control. Hence why he consistently does better in teams (doesnt need to control space) but worse in singles. At top levels of play, i think falco is actually the better char because of fox's lack of overall stage control. and falco does a better job of not getting hit.

jiggs is a better character than falcon period.
and something needs to be done about marth and sheik because outside of M2K, no one has been able to do jack**** with them which makes me wonder. but at the same time, thier "potential" cant be denied, its jsut funny that two characters built so innately broken in game physics cant actually compete at high levels these days or else we would see them succeed more and not just M2k.

peach is fine where she is

 

[x After Dawn x]

Fox is much more consistent than Falco. Fox has more tools and options at his disposal and is definitely better in teams. I would even go as far to say he's better in singles simply because he doesn't choke and get capitalized on by every single mistake like Falco.

Falco has spurts of momentum, but chokes hard when he's not doing well. Fox is more well-rounded IMO, and doesn't do as badly on somebody's bad day. It sometimes really comes down to preference, though, whether people prefer to play a safe and consistent character, or a risk vs reward character.

I think Marth and Sheik have a ton of potential, but as you said, nobody's been using it, and that could be a sign. Right now, I'm willing to say Fox > Falco > Sheik and Marth as many others are.

 

[INSANE CARZY GUY]

fox can **** some match ups harder If you ask me falco can too but he lacks the uber easy muscle meroty things fox can do, chain throw, shine spike,waveshine,camp, up-throw upair to death and etc. maybe it's the fact his throws suckbut I just don't think falco ***** harder than fox. Like siad people are getting better at powersheilding and falcos CAN sometimes use that to help them like a fake them out on a laser and f-smash them but it makes it rougher. And the fact everyone anf their mom plays as fox hurts him even if there are many ways to play as fox everyone does and everyone has a decent idea of how to treat fox.

just think how it would be for anyone esle if everyone played as them their metagame would sink pretty low after it reached it's peak.

 

[MarioMariox2]

Lol, I like how people here are so blunt about my tier list. i suppose creating a tier list DOES require more than one person cause I will admit I had SOME personal preference.

 

[SDR]

* Marth rose again *

 

[JPOBS]

Fox is much more consistent than Falco. Fox has more tools and options at his disposal and is definitely better in teams. I would even go as far to say he's better in singles simply because he doesn't choke and get capitalized on by every single mistake like Falco.

Falco has spurts of momentum, but chokes hard when he's not doing well. Fox is more well-rounded IMO, and doesn't do as badly on somebody's bad day. It sometimes really comes down to preference, though, whether people prefer to play a safe and consistent character, or a risk vs reward character.

I think Marth and Sheik have a ton of potential, but as you said, nobody's been using it, and that could be a sign. Right now, I'm willing to say Fox > Falco > Sheik and Marth as many others are.

see thats my whole point though.

fox is in theory a better char but isnt the tier list supposed to account for the top level of play?

top level falcos consistently outplace top level foxs. furthermore, falco gets messed up when he's not doing well, but falco has longer gaps in between doing well and doign poorly because of his ability to control spacefrom anywhere on the map.

and i think its a misconception that fox doesnt get capitilized on as hard as falco. Lets face it, if you're playign fox or falco, it doesnt matter because any mistake you make is gonna lead to a long *** combo and probably your stock regardless. the difference is falco has a gun which prevents his opponents from always doing what the want, so falco has longer stretches where he's in control and because of that, he gives his opponents less chances to capitilize on average than fox.

I guess what im saying is, there are 3 general situations in smash:
1. you and your opponent are in a neutral position and neither is hindering/affecting the other
2. You are comboing our opponent
3. Your opponent is comboing you.

you win a match generally by using spacong/mindgames involved in number 1, to increase your likelihood of number 2 more than having the reverse happen.

With fox, all 3 scenarios occur at roughly equal proportions

Falco is the only char in the game where 1 is almost never happening. His laser affects the match such that either 2 or 3 is the only situation occuring and because he is the one shooting the laser, more often than not, option 2 is what tends to happen most.

in a nutshell what im saying is falco's ability to control space from anywhere basically means that he has a hightened chance of gaining a advantageous position over pretty much anyone and thats why he's the best char in the game imo

 

[strawhats]

yeah, I cant really say much on the spacies topic other than fox is a better overall character in terms of his 2 vs. 2/1 play as well as playing the matchup against jiggz better. As you could see pp had a hell of a time against HBox, who although is highly skilled with jiggz and has improved leaps and bounds, has proved how gay falco vs. puff matchup is. The matchup is gay for fox if he ****s up on DI/ spacing but its not so bad (recovery is also in Fox's advantage) esp. in jiggz/spacies matchup.

 

[Vro]

Falco may have all those tools to make any normal situation in his favor, however, Fox, Marth, and Jiggs have ridiculous gimping potential. An easy stock spells doom, especially since these characters can snag gimps so easily.

With the increasing number of high placing Jiggs, I've been thinking defensive characters may be the top potential of Melee. Face it, the game is brutally punishing, to the point where one grab could mean a stock. Jiggs and, to a lesser extent, Peach are hard to kill/combo. Surviving even one more encounter per stock could mean the difference in each game.

That being said, I think it's interesting that all of us love the hyper-offensive game of most of the top tier. The space animals really reward players for high inputs and abusing their great moves. They also allow a lot of creativity, because of their moves' innate greatness.

I feel that M2K's list is pretty observant. (Jiggs/Falco/Fox//Sheik/Marth/Peach/Falcon) It's really hard to distinguish the top 3, imo. And Marth is awesome, but overrated in that not many great players are taking him to the top of tournies. Really, M2K was the only good one of '08 and he's been slowly moving to Sheik for all but Fox.

 

[strawhats]

m2k uses shiek to cover his weak matchups (not including puff) which are actually just falcon, sheik, and ganon which just gets ***** by sheik.

M2k is no longer able to carry a tourney in the hands of marth alone. The days of maining one character and expecting to win while using said character for an entire tourney is dead( save jiggz).

Kage owns marth (has beaten m2k's marth a few times) but sheik owns the **** out of ganon, so there u go. (I think if this were 2007, m2k would use marth)

M2k has always struggled against sheik even in his prime (see his epic matches against KDJ at mlg Long Island). So now he just sheik dittos and *****

M2k usually struggled in the marth vs. falcon matchup so he just wrecks the matchup with sheik. (just ask darkrain)

M2K will usually go marth for everything else but jiggz, which I still think he should use marth against puff (better than getting gimped easily while using fox.

 

[shadow-gate]

why are you talking about m2k so much....?

falco is probably more broken then marth, but hmmm iono marth is pretty simple character. practically he's a lot easier to use

 

[Incronaut]

Lol, I like how people here are so blunt about my tier list. i suppose creating a tier list DOES require more than one person cause I will admit I had SOME personal preference.

considering you were taking it all from videos, i'd say the list was actually impressively close to the actual tier list....

but people here like to be mean/blunt and just say whatever cause thats the internet world, try not to take it personally -.-

and ganon bottom tier? really? :D

 

[Scidadle]

Tier list needs to be redone

This final tier list is **** in todays metagame

 

[john!]

Well hmm, I'm bored so I'll throw my opinion of the tier list out there. This is based on both tourneys and my personal opinion of where the metagame is headed.

TOP
Fox
Puff
Marth/Falco
Sheik

HIGH
Falcon/Peach
IC's
Samus/Ganon

MID
Luigi
Pikachu
Doc
Link
Mario
Zelda

LOW
DK
Young Link
G&W
Mewtwo
Bowser

BOTTOM
Roy
Ness
Yoshi
Pichu
Kirby

 

[Vro]

What terrible Doc and DK placement you have. Tho, I can't say I've ever thought of the tier list much aside from top mid to top tier...

 

[JPOBS]

People overexaggerate how easy it is to gimp falco. First of all, all the gimps that work on falco work exactly the same oon fox with the except that you might have to hit fox once or twice more which isnt asking much. (i.e. you have to fair fox about 3 times with jiggs offstage to gimp but you only have to hit falco once.) At top levels of play it amounts to the same thing.

Furthermore, Falco's 0-death people more than they get gimped at high levels as well, its only at the intermediate level where this is really a huge problem.

As you could see pp had a hell of a time against HBox, who although is highly skilled with jiggz and has improved leaps and bounds, has proved how gay falco vs. puff matchup is. .

Yea but PP was also not playign the matchup very well.

For one, he didnt Dtilt AT ALL vs Hbox which is Falco's earliest kill move vs jiggs next to shine off the top. Bair and forward smash dont kill till upwards of 110-120 with good DI/stage dependent.

Also, he didnt abuse the gayest part of the matchup falco has, platform camp. If pp had just sat on the the platforms and camped Dair it would have made the games a lot more winnable for him.

People need to start to do what it really takes to beat jiggs. You cant just play her like anyone else that doesnt work, you have to set about the task of either lasering her for 8 minutes or camping platforms with Dair because its hard for her to deal. but everyone likes to rush down and run into bairs and rests and junk -_-

 

[Lovage]

LOVAGES SUPER TIER LIST

top
fox/falco
sheik

high
marth
puff
peach

mid
falcon
IC
samus/ganon

low
doctor mario
dk

bottom
pika/luigi/mario

 

[ETWIST51294]

**** tier list lovage lol

heres mine b*tches!

top:
fox
sheik
falco
marth/jiggs

high:
peach
falcon
IC's
samus/ganon

mid:
doc
luigi
dk
mario
pika
link

low:
lil lank
G&W
yoshi
zelda
roy

bottom:
ness
mewtwo/bowser
pichu
kirby

I rated sheik so high because the only high level sheik's the us had was kdj and m2k. sheiks **** europe and shes nerfed there. Come on, I know you guys seen amsah before.

 

[Mew2King]

i dont see why, when at ROM2 its 3 jiggs in top 5, and if Darc didnt get a phantom rest on drPP it would have been Jiggs Jiggs Ganon Jiggs Falco in results, that ppl put marth and sheik higher than her. I can understand maybe they could be better characters MAYBE, but from what I see tourneys for the past 2 years have been dominated by Jiggs and Falcos with Fox right behind

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

Just cause everyone else is:

Top:
Falco/Marth/Fox
Sheik
Puff

High:
Peach
ICs
Falcon
Ganon
Samus

Mid:
Doc
Luigi
Mario
DK
Link

Low:
Pika
Zelda
Roy
Y.Link

Bottom:
G&W
Yoshi
Bowser
Ness
Mewtwo
Kirby
Pichu

 

[ETWIST51294]

i dont see why, when at ROM2 its 3 jiggs in top 5, and if Darc didnt get a phantom rest on drPP it would have been Jiggs Jiggs Ganon Jiggs Falco in results, that ppl put marth and sheik higher than her. I can understand maybe they could be better characters MAYBE, but from what I see tourneys for the past 2 years have been dominated by Jiggs and Falcos with Fox right behind

Like I said, I think the US has a lower level of sheiks. You are literally the only TOP level (not high level) sheik in the US right now. The only other one was kdj.

I have no idea what's going to happen when amsah comes down here, most of our top players don't play top sheiks very often especially one with that style.

Also, I'm kinda iffy about marth. He might be worse.

 

[x After Dawn x]

Might as well throw mine in:

Fox
Marth/Sheik/Falco all in the next 3 in some order (I don't really know what order they should be in, my opinion changes all the time)

Puff
Peach
Falcon
Ganon here

or here
ICs
Samus
Doc
Mario
Luigi
DK

Pika
Link
Young Link
Roy
Mewtwo or something

don't care about the rest

 

[Fletch]

Sveet, that is pretty much identical to what I was going to post, except maybe switching Ganon and Samus and maybe Mewtwo a bit higher.

 

[Rat]

<3 lovages list.

 

[Mike B.]

Why do people put Mewtwo and Kirby so low?

They aren't THAT bad.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

who is worse than them? exactly.



as for my list (above) i feel like the top 3-4 are all interchangeable. I think sheik is the weakest of the 4, though she does raaaaaaaape most of the cast. I just think marth, fox and falco raaaaaaaaape the cast as well as she does or better, minus chain grabs.

i put puff in top tier because she is either bottom of top or top of high. Her defensive game is pretty strong and her punishments are very effective. Her hardest matchups are all in the characters above her.

i had been talking last night about how CF should go down in the tier list, to the bottom of high. When i actually went to make this list though, i realized hes in the perfect spot already.

I think ganon's tournament potential has been going up in the last year, and i think it warrants him being higher than samus. His reward for any hit is pretty high, he has lots of priority and he has the best throw in the game. He has a sound edge guard from the stage or going out to them.

after that its pretty standard.

 

[JPOBS]

people overate marth and sheik way too much imo

people are stuck in the past, the metagame has changed, marth and sheik just arent the same of old. Hell, even FALCON has seen more success recently than either of these two.

you can argue all you want that marth and sheik are potentially great characters, i just find it funny that absolutely no one outside of m2k has done anything of note with them in 2-2.5 years i put that on personal skill. whereas other chars like falcon and jiggs have had numerous people place amazing with them. even falcon has been routinely placing top 5 and multiple top 10 at big tournies.

im not saying put falcon above marth and sheik, im saying out jiggs in top tier with fox and falco, and put sheik and marth in high tier.

 

[NES n00b]

I find it sorta funny too, but really Marth and Sheik are no doubtingly better than Falcon.

 

[Mogwai]

i put puff in top tier because she is either bottom of top or top of high. Her defensive game is pretty strong and her punishments are very effective. Her hardest matchups are all in the characters above her.

no, the fact that she has random hard mid-low tier matchups is actually one of the stronger talking points for why Jiggs is not top tier. Ganon, Doc, Pikachu, Y. Link, Link, Luigi, and Pichu are all at least debatably close to even or disadvantageous matchups for her. Now, I'm not exactly sure on the reality of these matchups since I haven't seen a whole lot of them, but at least in theory, Jiggs shouldn't molest any of those characters half as hard as the rest of the top tier does.

I find it sorta funny too, but really Marth and Sheik are no doubtingly better than Falcon.

undoubtedly or indubitably would sound so much better.

 

[Devil Ray]

uh, mogwai, wanna stop being the bad cop on the grammar police??

sheik is incredibly broken, i don't think anyone really reached her potential. m2k was close, but he uses all the top 3. i dunno who his best is.

jiggs is a trend. way too lopsided of a character and has too many weaknesses. this too shall pass

 

[JPOBS]

I find it sorta funny too, but really Marth and Sheik are no doubtingly better than Falcon.

i agree one hundred percent, falcon is a bad char for tourny play

but people **** with him, and fail with sheik and marth.

i dont understand.

As for the "sheik is broken" arguement, thats only at mid level play really. or if you have the unfortune of maining falcon.
my posts are full of paradox.

 

[hungrybox]

no, the fact that she has random hard mid-low tier matchups is actually one of the stronger talking points for why Jiggs is not top tier. Ganon, Doc, Pikachu, Y. Link, Link, Luigi, and Pichu are all at least debatably close to even or disadvantageous matchups for her. Now, I'm not exactly sure on the reality of these matchups since I haven't seen a whole lot of them, but at least in theory, Jiggs shouldn't molest any of those characters half as hard as the rest of the top tier does.



undoubtedly or indubitably would sound so much better.

That is an excellent point my sir.

Though I would say Jiggs ***** ganon, and maybe even falcon.

My tier list:

Fox
Jiggs (LOL BIAS)
Falco
Marth/Shiek

CF/Peach
ICs

Ganon
Samus
Doc
Luigi
Mario
DK

**** low tiers

 

[EC_Joey]

zomg Mango is best in the world that MUST mean Jiggs is top tier!
zomg 3 Jiggs in top 5 at RoM2 that MUST mean Jiggs is top tier!

no, the fact that she has random hard mid-low tier matchups is actually one of the stronger talking points for why Jiggs is not top tier. Ganon, Doc, Pikachu, Y. Link, Link, Luigi, and Pichu are all at least debatably close to even or disadvantageous matchups for her. Now, I'm not exactly sure on the reality of these matchups since I haven't seen a whole lot of them, but at least in theory, Jiggs shouldn't molest any of those characters half as hard as the rest of the top tier does.

Thisthisthisthisthis

 

[Mogwai]

uh, mogwai, wanna stop being the bad cop on the grammar police??

Not really, but thanks for asking.

 

[hungrybox]

what?

what.

what!

what,

what!?

what:

what

 

[EC_Joey]

wato

wato

wato

wato

wato

wato

 

[Mogwai]

That is an excellent point my sir.

Though I would say Jiggs ***** ganon, and maybe even falcon.

Jiggs ***** Falcon much harder than Ganon IMO. Falcon can't do **** to Jiggs, he just runs around and hopes to not get *****. Ganon's fair is roughly 50 times more practical for spacing/killing her and he apparently recovers way better if you delay the wizard's foot a la Kage vs. Mango (I couldn't see what Mango was supposed to do to deal with the sudden change in altitude, correct me if Mango was actually just missing an easy answer to what Kage was doing).

I don't like responding to random tier lists cause they're not as right as mine

 

[ihavespaceblondes]

I want to know where the idea that Pikachu has any chance at all vs Jiggs came from. Are there any cases of a Pikachu beating a good Jiggs in tourney that someone can point out to me? Or is the myth entirely based on Pikachu having a really powerful upsmash?

 

[Mogwai]

I dunno, I used to think Pikachu ***** Jiggs when I was a scrub, then I played it once and decided that Jiggs assrapes Pikachu, but now I'm back to thinking that maybe Pikachu's good at the matchup. This being based on Pikachu turning his back to jigglypuff and beating everything she can do with uair. But really, I have no ****ing clue how it's supposed to go and the only recent respectable set in the matchup that I can think of is when Raistlin beat Axe at Genesis, so maybe it's all a myth.

 

[JPOBS]

jiggs still beats the low tier chars, even if the matchups arent complete **** a la sheik