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PokemonMasterIRL
Smash Master
Ho.
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-ACE-
Gotem City Vigilante
I.B
Smash Lord
Unofficial Rom2 results thread: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=256314
LAX_
Smash Apprentice
Prediction: a ganon will make top 5 in Pound 4
otg
Smash Master
ok once again. I am NOT saying **** about Ganon. I still think Ganon (and Jiggs) both suck balls, it IS the players who make the character, not the other way around. My post was at a comment umbreon made a few days ago, stating that Melee has stopped evolving and proof of that was the fact that no one could touch Mango. Well, there you have it, Mango lost.
THAT IS IT, **** GANON. **** JIGGS. They both suck.
The characters make the metagame, not the players. If the general skill of the players has increased that says NOTHING about the metagame.
NES n00b
Smash Master
What? Metagame is the strategies for winning outside of the game's rules. How the heck do the CHARACTERS make the metagame? People evolve it by discovering what characters already have or improve already known strategies.
pockyD
Smash Legend
player skill evolving (aka increased proficiency in using the characters) is pretty much ALL that matters concerning the metagame. everyone knows that the game itself doesn't change, stop bringing that up; it's our application and perception of the parameters the game defines that evolves, and as players get better, the way we evaluate their use of their characters (and subsequently the characters' abilities) does as well
The game HAS changed over the years in terms of what's legal, what's doable and what's known. Character strategies have changed over time and uses for certain moves have been discovered.
/semantics
General player skill has definitely increased over the last few years but for the most part that doesn't matter. Every character is still being played almost exactly like they were a year ago, there has been NO character development to speak of for the majority of the cast, no new strategies, nothing. To argue that the tier list needs to change would be to argue that somehow characters have suddenly reached some then unknown untapped potential that no one knew about 2 years ago. Why does jigglypuff need to move up? Because no one can beat Jigglypuff? Why does marth need to move down? Because no one plays Marth? Im very much against changing the tier list because as of now there's little to no proof that anything has actually changed since '07, other than the characters being played.
INSANE CARZY GUY
Banned via Warnings
Then you argee that falcon is just as good as jigglypuff right pink reaper. There have been new things discovered but if I talk about it everyone will be P***ed at me no it isn't the jab reset rest or the roll throw thing.
woah crap I looked at the rom2 thing and 3 puffs came in top 5 in 1st, 3rd, and 5th place wow that's crazy
woah crap I looked at the rom2 thing and 3 puffs came in top 5 in 1st, 3rd, and 5th place wow that's crazy
Exactly
Yep
aw, if only you made your good points without being sarcastic
pockyD
Smash Legend
ok, can you give me an example of something that happened in the "metagame" (or what you seem to believe is the metagame) that influenced the last tier list?
aside from wobbling being popular/banned (which i personally don't think affected very much concerning how the game is played at the top levels), what caused the changes at the top of the list? more importantly (and confusingly), what caused the changes at the bottom?
choknater
Smash Obsessed
I think the Falco metagame has changed a ****load over the past couple years. It's evolved so much.
i agree. I thought we were talking about day 2 of RoM2 though.
otg
Smash Master
You ever play Hazz? He's pretty good. You ever play DRUNK Hazz? that dude, is ****ing nasty. No johns for mango.
did Mango drink on day 2? he looked drunk day 1, but he seemed fine on day 2.
Also to add onto that he was obviously playing pretty **** well to run through Jman and Tuar in rapid succession
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
Or, or, or Jman and Tuar were just playing bad too.
Everyone was playing bad exceot Hbox, Kage, PP.
Betcha didn't think about that, eh?
Everyone was playing bad exceot Hbox, Kage, PP.
Betcha didn't think about that, eh?
Im going to be honest, I've asked alot of people who voted on that last tier list, and I cannot for the life of me figure out why the bottom of the tier list changed. I have been given no real reason why G&W suddenly jumped a tier, so I couldn't give you a reason if I wanted to.
The top of the tier list however barely changed at all, it's been very much the same as it is now for years back. The only real change to the tier list was Jiggs, which can be attributed to Mango, and I don't mean "Mango's soooooooo good, jiggs moves up" I mean that mango was the first top level rest oriented Jiggs player. His style shifted Jiggs' metagame to a more Rest-centered style of play, improving her game by alot.
I do agree with Choknater however, I believe Falco's metagame has changed quite a bit over the last year, especially with laser control. But beyond that many characters haven't really changed.
NES n00b
Smash Master
I have made a more gay oriented style of Falcon. That counts right?
Lies, I've seen you play. Nothing but **** and knees(another form of ****) Exactly the same as other Falcons.
PokemonMasterIRL
Smash Master
I think when mentioning Jigglypuff's success and Mango, almost always Hungrybox should be mentioned as well seeing as Hbox's success is will only Puff, and Mango ***** with the all the top tiers.
that proves you don't know what you're talking about cause NES Noob never knees cause it's too dangerous. it's better to just uair and get right back to dash dancing.
also, you're wrong about Falco, the biggest advancements in Falco's game over the past 1-2 years have been in his shield pressure and combo game. lasers are actually much less valuable now than they were previously because everyone at the mid-high end of play nowadays can powershield like a level 9 cpu.
also, you're wrong about Falco, the biggest advancements in Falco's game over the past 1-2 years have been in his shield pressure and combo game. lasers are actually much less valuable now than they were previously because everyone at the mid-high end of play nowadays can powershield like a level 9 cpu.
xXx-NoobKing-xXx
Smash Hero
Falcon should be higher due to his manlyness...
...discuss
...discuss
MarioMariox2
Smash Ace
Actually I devised a sort of personal tier list based on matches I've seen.
This is how it goes (in-order):
Top:
Fox
Marth
Falco
CF
High:
Shiek
Puff
Peach
Doc
ICs
Middle:
Samus
Mario
Luigi
Pikachu
Yoshi
Low:
Link
G&W
Young Link
Roy
Zelda
Ness
Bottom:
M2
Ganon
Bowser
DK
Kirby
Pichu
This is what I think. Is it too scrubby/fail?
HazZarD
Smash Journeyman
LAX_
Smash Apprentice
well if you didn't have ANY exposure to the actual tier list then it is decent i guess lol.
There definitely wasn't any true "metagame" (or whatever the hell you want to call it) advancement in the past year/two years, but i think that there is just a possibility that the tier list of two years ago was just wrong. At this point in time, we have seen a spectacular main for each and every character on the tier list. I DON'T think that this was the case before Mango won Pound 3.
I believe we should change the tier list to reflect what people think of now (now, meaning from the past two years). I've seen a lot of posts saying that Ken wouldn't do well if he played now. I think this is complete BS (as long as Ken kept up his tech skill). I won't say he will win a national now, but he would definitely place very high.
Anyway, what i am getting at is at this point we have seen a main for each character TO THE MAX (or at least verrryyyyy close to the max). We should use that info (the best person's playstyle, etc) to create a tier list (which wouldn't change dramatically anyway).
P.S. i think it's dumb to lower marth because there aren't any representatives now. marth is still **** good, and people just don't main marth for different reasons, and trust me i can think of a lot ^_^
wait ganon bottom lol
There definitely wasn't any true "metagame" (or whatever the hell you want to call it) advancement in the past year/two years, but i think that there is just a possibility that the tier list of two years ago was just wrong. At this point in time, we have seen a spectacular main for each and every character on the tier list. I DON'T think that this was the case before Mango won Pound 3.
I believe we should change the tier list to reflect what people think of now (now, meaning from the past two years). I've seen a lot of posts saying that Ken wouldn't do well if he played now. I think this is complete BS (as long as Ken kept up his tech skill). I won't say he will win a national now, but he would definitely place very high.
Anyway, what i am getting at is at this point we have seen a main for each character TO THE MAX (or at least verrryyyyy close to the max). We should use that info (the best person's playstyle, etc) to create a tier list (which wouldn't change dramatically anyway).
P.S. i think it's dumb to lower marth because there aren't any representatives now. marth is still **** good, and people just don't main marth for different reasons, and trust me i can think of a lot ^_^
what you talkin 'bout willis... M2K is still king of Marth (he just stopped practicing) thats all...not to worry he's been practicing lately and is on the rise to ****** with marth again. (he just needs to learn how to foght jiggz) even though he can still beat HBOX, as he is now.
Ken will always be King of Marth (old school)
Dont forget about Azen, Tink , HBK, Strawhat Dahean (from Europe)
Cactuar..why you stop playing marth?
Ken will always be King of Marth (old school)
Dont forget about Azen, Tink , HBK, Strawhat Dahean (from Europe)
Cactuar..why you stop playing marth?
OneWing_Angel
Smash Apprentice
- Joined
- Dec 11, 2008
- Messages
- 79
There's a lot of fail. CF is not top tier. He's barely high tier IMO. Ganon is a great character, nowhere NEAR bottom tier. He's top of Mid/Bottom of high. Sheik is still a top tier character...
EDIT: Forgot DK. DK is a good character, mid tier for sure.
Fortress | Sveet
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yoshi in mid tier 
Anth0ny
Smash Master
Jiggs and Falco are taking overrrrrrrrrrrrrr
INSANE CARZY GUY
Banned via Warnings
There's never been a good pichu main and I would be amazed if there ever will be maybe a great amazing pichu player(we lack one) but never a main no is that crazy and can endure.
That list is fail I wouldn't even comment on it.
BUt if you want a new useful tech eat your heart out I,ve known this forever and in this clip i,m trying to use it to combo http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDF7VX1yi_0&feature=channel take that you reds this is fairly useful for approach and junk you can use this to punish things from far away too makeing me wish I played more falcos maybe laser punishment if they shoot to high and seeing how you can do it out of your sheild you should be alright. This is fairly untapped right now
change the list j-puff is better than falcon MAYBE peach, kirby is way to high,and a fair amount of little things could be changed in mid to bottom after the puff change the top and high should be good.
That list is fail I wouldn't even comment on it.
BUt if you want a new useful tech eat your heart out I,ve known this forever and in this clip i,m trying to use it to combo http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDF7VX1yi_0&feature=channel take that you reds this is fairly useful for approach and junk you can use this to punish things from far away too makeing me wish I played more falcos maybe laser punishment if they shoot to high and seeing how you can do it out of your sheild you should be alright. This is fairly untapped right now
change the list j-puff is better than falcon MAYBE peach, kirby is way to high,and a fair amount of little things could be changed in mid to bottom after the puff change the top and high should be good.
x After Dawn x
Smash Master
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