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Official MBR Tier List

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SonuvaBeach

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I would definitely put money on ken. well, sort of. If you really mean like ken doesn't know the current metagame or anything like that, then no i wouldn't. but if you put them on equal ground, my money would be on ken. Ken is one of those people that doesn't give up when you're in his head. If you get in ken's head, he uses that to get into your head. I would LOVE to see the match happen, but i think just based on characters (marth vs falco/puff) that ken would win. Not to mention he beat a lot of the other best players ever, in a time when everyone was very mentally skillful.

Also, mango and m2k aren't the only people at top of the metagame. in fact i would say when mango beats m2k it has nothing to do with the top level of play, and everything to do with m2k getting wrecked by mango.
I think you are underestimating how far mango and mangos metagame has come. But, we all have opinions and this ends up being a fruitless debate.

The only one who was reading mango like mango reads everyone else is armada. I don't think that, with marth, ken would stand a chance against mango's falco. I would say more, but it just turns into mango > (insert person), so mango > ken. Obviously a fail.
 

Fortress | Sveet

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You gotta realize, ken wasn't just the best player at the peak of his game, he was the best player at the peak of THE game. MLG, when there was more money in this game than any other time, ken made more than anyone else. Its easy to say mango is the best in the world yadaydaydaydaydyadadadada but the fact is, there really isn't much motivation for 1) people that want to prove their skill to pick up this game and 2) lower level players to try to get to the top.

not saying mango isn't good, but the highest level doesn't really have the kind of competition it used to.
 

HawaiianJigglyPuff

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So would Lucky taking his Falco to game 5 also be testament to how much Falco clearly sucks?

~_~
Taking someone to a fifth game is not the same as beating someone in five games.
Also, Mango then 3-0 him in the next set. -_-

I understand how much of a beast Lucky is. I do. And I'm not trying to take anything away from him.

I'm not trying to say Falcon shouldn't be high tier either. I'm just saying that Falcon should not move up because we will not see a straight up Falcon main win a national tournament.
 

KirbyKaze

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I don't think we can really say anything like "So and so won't win a tournament" anymore. It seems we usually wind up being wrong or almost wrong.

Mango killed everyone at Pound 3. Armada almost did the same thing at Genesis. In eons past, Chu won tournaments that people would consider "national". Ice Climbers are also, on that note, definitely not as good as Falcon.

I agree that Falcon shouldn't move up.
 

Stev

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You gotta realize, ken wasn't just the best player at the peak of his game, he was the best player at the peak of THE game. MLG, when there was more money in this game than any other time, ken made more than anyone else. Its easy to say mango is the best in the world yadaydaydaydaydyadadadada but the fact is, there really isn't much motivation for 1) people that want to prove their skill to pick up this game and 2) lower level players to try to get to the top.

not saying mango isn't good, but the highest level doesn't really have the kind of competition it used to.
While that was the peak of melee in terms of national spotlight, I can guarantee you that the average smasher today would beat the average smasher then.
 

`Jammin' Jobus

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Lol yall sound like clowns talking about ken.


Mango's level of play today is eons above the best level of play 2 years ago.
 

PokemonMasterIRL

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trufax: Falcon was the most represented character in Genesis's top 8. he's pretty good.

Lucky's also pretty good.

Pokemon Master, my point is that Mango seems to beat M2K regardless of form or character matchup, so I have a hard time accepting that Jiggs doesn't lose to Marth only on the basis of their history.
Eh. M2k hasn't come close to beating mango anytime recently. I'd say Armada vs Mango is closer to the "highest level of play." No one else is on the same level as mango. m2k does normally make some good arguments though for his sides, when he posts them.

EDIT: Mogwai's point is valid and more concise. M2k never beats mango regardless of character.


No, that just makes lucky lucky. Duh. :p
Mango vs M2K trying hard= Mango only ***** with Puff. Is there recent vids or otherwise of Mango just plaing ****** M2K with just any top tier?


And Armada defeated Mango's Falco. I was there. Mango had to go PUFF.


Mangos Puff runs train on everyone.

Not his Falco or Falcon.


If it was just player skill he would destroy everyone with every character.
 

Lovage

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not videos, but if you were at active gamers when mango was beating all of m2ks characters with fox and falco, there u go
 

pockyD

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There was also a SJSU where mango 3-0 m2k's marth with his falco. M2k split 2nd with zhu he got ***** so bad. Its on Waffles youtube channel
actually SCSA but i doubt that means anything to anyone but cali smashers

mango wrecks with everyone
 

x After Dawn x

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not videos, but if you were at active gamers when mango was beating all of m2ks characters with fox and falco, there u go
his fox went fairly even with m2k's fox

m2k seriously needs to stop choking vs mango in tourney though. like there was that sheik vs falco (m2k vs mango, respectively) match on...I think dream land? where mango was just spot dodging every single one of m2k's grabs. and m2k gave up and didn't even try to recover at the end haha
 

Fortress | Sveet

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at SMYM10 mango's falco 3stocked m2k's marth on YS in like winners semis or something and m2k was pretty upset.
 

strawhats

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holy ****....****, mango really is a god in this game isnt he. But I think something is different about m2k now...he seems to have new purpose, that and he has been practicing alot lately with marth and fox so maybe he might wreck **** up like before.(new controller and all) Either way m2k and mango in their primes have ended up being light years ahead of anything we could have imagined within the metagame these last few years. Maybe m2k can pull an armada and force mango to use puff. (a pipe dream TBH)

go Jman

LONG LIVE MEELE
 

wiitubeaccount

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I've studied the brawl tier list more than the melée one since I just newly returned to melée(though I still play brawl) so I don't understand why fox is 1st and falco 4th? I think falco should be in shieks spot since he is almost as fast as fox but doesn't need as much perfect playing. I've seen more successful falcos than sheiks.
 

Lordydennek

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I've studied the brawl tier list more than the melée one since I just newly returned to melée(though I still play brawl) so I don't understand why fox is 1st and falco 4th? I think falco should be in shieks spot since he is almost as fast as fox but doesn't need as much perfect playing. I've seen more successful falcos than sheiks.
theres a lot of talk about that actually. I main a shiek, and i can also play a decent Falco. M2K favors falco even over fox. Sheik tho, can counter a lot of characters. i think its her/his counter ability that makes him/her so high up on the list.
 
D

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actually I take back that video that I posted, since it was before everyone started *****ing about how broken jigglypuff is. through self-fulling prophecy, jigglypuff is actually way better now than she was in 2008 even though the game hasn't changed at all, making that video irrelevant.
 

null55

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actually I Take Back That Video That I Posted, Since It Was Before Everyone Started *****ing About How Broken Jigglypuff Is. Through Self-fulling Prophecy, Jigglypuff Is Actually Way Better Now Than She Was In 2008 Even Though The Game Hasn't Changed At All, Making That Video Irrelevant.
LOL.



caps
 

Mogwai

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I want to expect better of you, but I know not to
actually I take back that video that I posted, since it was before everyone started *****ing about how broken jigglypuff is. through self-fulling prophecy, jigglypuff is actually way better now than she was in 2008 even though the game hasn't changed at all, making that video irrelevant.
nice work sidestepping an actual argument. I had a number of personal jabs lined up for you here, but I'm sure they'd just be met with more glib remarks that prove how smart and likable you are.

god I wish I could put mods on my ignore list sometimes...

from the same tourney as your vid, winner's bracket:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JvYiNxh2scg&feature=related
 

Brookman

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You gotta realize, ken wasn't just the best player at the peak of his game, he was the best player at the peak of THE game. MLG, when there was more money in this game than any other time, ken made more than anyone else. Its easy to say mango is the best in the world yadaydaydaydaydyadadadada but the fact is, there really isn't much motivation for 1) people that want to prove their skill to pick up this game and 2) lower level players to try to get to the top.

not saying mango isn't good, but the highest level doesn't really have the kind of competition it used to.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fE6hUHkEPS0





I'm pretty sure pc was the best of the best ;D
 

x After Dawn x

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D

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nice work sidestepping an actual argument. I had a number of personal jabs lined up for you here, but I'm sure they'd just be met with more glib remarks that prove how smart and likable you are.

god I wish I could put mods on my ignore list sometimes...

from the same tourney as your vid, winner's bracket:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JvYiNxh2scg&feature=related
you'd have to present something factual for me to debate it. it's difficult to debate a slew of condescending remarks, but I'll be happy to return them back to you.

god I wish I could just ban you sometimes...oh, I can.
 

Fletch

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actually I take back that video that I posted, since it was before everyone started *****ing about how broken jigglypuff is. through self-fulling prophecy, jigglypuff is actually way better now than she was in 2008 even though the game hasn't changed at all, making that video irrelevant.
I did a longer write-up on this before, but unfortunately lost it at work when I tried to submit it. If you're going to say this, then I really think Zelda should still be considered one of the best characters in the game. I'm pretty sure she was near the top of the tier list back in 2002, and since the game hasn't physically changed, she still kicks major ***, and that's why we are seeing so many Zeldas **** at tournaments. You can do this for *insert character here* as well.
 

x After Dawn x

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I did a longer write-up on this before, but unfortunately lost it at work when I tried to submit it. If you're going to say this, then I really think Zelda should still be considered one of the best characters in the game. I'm pretty sure she was near the top of the tier list back in 2002, and since the game hasn't physically changed, she still kicks major ***, and that's why we are seeing so many Zeldas **** at tournaments. You can do this for *insert character here* as well.
He's referring to the metagame, not the physical game.

And even then, I still disagree with him. As little as it might be, the metagame has changed since the last tier list.
 
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strawman. I think most people would agree that 2002 is out of date. I at least still consider late 2008 to be fairly relevant.

and frankly, I'll kick all your ***** with zelda anyway.
 

Fletch

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He's referring to the metagame, not the physical game.

And even then, I still disagree with him. As little as it might be, the metagame has changed since the last tier list.
I'm aware that he's referring to the metagame, but I'm poking at the fact that he's inferring the metagame hasn't changed since the match he posted. We agree.
 
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