Fletch
Smash Master
What is with this new Melee back room? How do I get in it?
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LumpyCPU...
Smash Hero
pm me when you find out. lol
i guess i could look into it myself.
LumpyCPU...
Smash Hero
NES n00b
Smash Master
There is only -Chad-. In my heart.
metaXzero
Smash Champion
Heheh. funny. The Brawl SBR recieved a purge of 3/4th of its members...
Well, is anyone confirmed to be in Melee SBR?
Well, is anyone confirmed to be in Melee SBR?
LumpyCPU...
Smash Hero
i guess i don't deserve it... lol
Trespayne
Smash Apprentice
I'm surprised to see such a big gap between Mario and Dr. Mario. I've been playing both for some time now and agree that the Doc may be better, but by a close margin. I would say Dr. Mario is more like 6.4 and Mario would be more like 6.1-ish.
I would also put Shiek at 9.8 or even tied with Fox and Marth. She counters Marth and does well against Fox as well. She's not countered by anybody else in high tier either.
I would also put Shiek at 9.8 or even tied with Fox and Marth. She counters Marth and does well against Fox as well. She's not countered by anybody else in high tier either.
person701
Smash Journeyman
Last tier list? LAST?! THIS IS BLASPHEMY!!! Melee will never cese to evolve.
Well, it's cool to see Marth move up, but sad to see Falco move down. Oh well, that's the way to cookie crumbles =) Also, how was this list created? I haven't read through 888 posts, nor will in the future. I know tier lists are compiled of tournie results, but jus seeing if any thing's changed.
Well, it's cool to see Marth move up, but sad to see Falco move down. Oh well, that's the way to cookie crumbles =) Also, how was this list created? I haven't read through 888 posts, nor will in the future. I know tier lists are compiled of tournie results, but jus seeing if any thing's changed.
Mr.Fakeman
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Aug 27, 2008
- Messages
- 382
I like that, Captain Falcon percisely on 8.0, nice job.JonaDiaper
Smash Champion
looking at the list im noticing that falcon should be higher.
falcon ***** peach, and marth. tech chasing ***** the spacies, and vs sheik its about even.
more falcons are needed in tourney that are actually good. meaning ss darkrain jiano and scar need to travel, which they dont.
falcon ***** peach, and marth. tech chasing ***** the spacies, and vs sheik its about even.
more falcons are needed in tourney that are actually good. meaning ss darkrain jiano and scar need to travel, which they dont.
FrenchToasts
Smash Journeyman
Better Than Top
Captain Falcon's Sexy Manliness 11.0
Epic win, 0% knee to death, gg
Captain Falcon's Sexy Manliness 11.0
Epic win, 0% knee to death, gg
Fletch
Smash Master
Wouldn't say he needs to be much higher, but the only real problem I have with the list is that he is not ahead of Peach. It just seems like there are way more good Falcons than Peaches, and I think his tourney results are better as well, not to mention he has an advantage on one of the best characters in the game and puts up a good fight with the other. Too bad his matchups against Sheik and Falco are bad, but it's not like Peach does well against anyone above her barring maybe Falco.
JonaDiaper
Smash Champion
ya, i dont think his matchup vs sheik is that bad. the constant 0-70 combos falco does on falcon are bad tho...but gimping evens it out. i dont know i think he should be like a 8.9
hoopspr226
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Mar 5, 2007
- Messages
- 279
uh
being completely serious, the only reason there are more falcons than peaches is because his play style is so much more exciting/manly. his popularity isn't really indicative of his ability from an objective standpoint. And anyways Peach does a thousand times better versus Sheik than falcon does. Don't even argue that.
being completely serious, the only reason there are more falcons than peaches is because his play style is so much more exciting/manly. his popularity isn't really indicative of his ability from an objective standpoint. And anyways Peach does a thousand times better versus Sheik than falcon does. Don't even argue that.
Scar
#HarveyDent
I travel more than they do.
Fletch
Smash Master
I agree that there are more Falcons because of his playstyle, but he still seems to have better matchups against the top and even counters the best character in the game. And Peach/Sheik is still a pretty horrible matchup, even if you think it's better than Falcon/Sheik.
JPOBS
Smash Hero
what is it about sheik that occured over the past year that now makes people think she's the best, and actually be disappointed she "only" moved into 3rd?
I know sheik destroys pretty much everyone below her and whatnot but i remebr from the past teir lists the concensus was "marth fox and falco are the sex, sheik and peach are also viable however".
what about her has been developed?
also, I foresaw falco's fall from greatness. he gets tossed by many low tiers and his recovery is a pos. still i main im because he is the amazing.
I know sheik destroys pretty much everyone below her and whatnot but i remebr from the past teir lists the concensus was "marth fox and falco are the sex, sheik and peach are also viable however".
what about her has been developed?
also, I foresaw falco's fall from greatness. he gets tossed by many low tiers and his recovery is a pos. still i main im because he is the amazing.
LumpyCPU...
Smash Hero
i'm seeing doc players here in norcal doing better and better against top/high tier characters.
and pink shinobi is consistently placing in the top five at all our tourneys with peach.
after seven years of melee, i can honestly say, i believe the metagame is still evolving.
official? final? the?
melee might still be changing enough to get another tier list update... maybe. lol
and pink shinobi is consistently placing in the top five at all our tourneys with peach.
after seven years of melee, i can honestly say, i believe the metagame is still evolving.
official? final? the?
melee might still be changing enough to get another tier list update... maybe. lol
The question about that is "Are there enough players left (and enough interaction between them) to drive the metagame forward?" Dominance at the local level is very different from the national level, and dominating the smaller group of players who are still playing is very different from dominating the nation-wide group of players that used to exist.
The game is so deep that one individual can only truly master one or two characters. On top of that, without travel you often develop local playstyles that are not true representations of the metagame. Thus, you need a LOT of people playing to truly advance the metagame.
It's not that you can't advance individual characters, but it's really hard to see where they would've fit.
There may be room for disagreement, but this is my opinion anyway, which is why I labeled it the Final Tier List.
The game is so deep that one individual can only truly master one or two characters. On top of that, without travel you often develop local playstyles that are not true representations of the metagame. Thus, you need a LOT of people playing to truly advance the metagame.
It's not that you can't advance individual characters, but it's really hard to see where they would've fit.
There may be room for disagreement, but this is my opinion anyway, which is why I labeled it the Final Tier List.
LumpyCPU...
Smash Hero
well i understand that if i play my friend everyday with kirby, i'll eventually be better with him.
but with tourney's like West Coast Smash League (over 70 entrants for melee singles, i believe).
pink shinobi got 3rd, losing only to mango and zhu.
he's doing things i've never seen peach players pull off.
and he's ridiculously consistent and he goes back and forth in tourney SS and Lunin.
he's still improving. i'm not saying he will alter the tier list, i'm saying he's an example of someone newer to the scene bringing a character past his/her previously known potential.
melee is still very much alive.
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
Wouldn't Sheik's superior range, priority, lack of lag, and superior damage output make her pretty bad?
Peach has always been a top 5 character though, just not a tournament winner most of the time. Vidjo regularly made Top 5 at national-level tournaments, and Cort had similar success on the EC and nationally.
I'd like to see vids of Pink Shinobi if he is indeed doing things that have never been done before, are there some available?
I'd like to see vids of Pink Shinobi if he is indeed doing things that have never been done before, are there some available?
Doggalina
Smash Lord
Kish, there a quite a few available (pretty recent, too):
http://www.youtube.com/results?sear...search_sort=relevance&search_category=0&page=
http://www.youtube.com/results?sear...search_sort=relevance&search_category=0&page=
He most certainly does not **** Marth, he has a good match-up against him but its not ****.
Tech Chasing ***** any character as any character.
Sheik beats him.
Stop spitting garbage from your local tournaments out.
LumpyCPU...
Smash Hero
he's really fast and spaces really well.
i guess i have a biased opinion towards him because he's cool IRL.
but he beats more and more people every tourney.
i watched him wreck mango's fox in friendlies lol (friendlies, i know.)
but he took matches off him in tourney as well. 2stocking his puff on mute city YAYUHZ
Witchking_of_Angmar
Smash Lord
Since we're at making outrageous claims, I think I'll post my version of the matchups.
Falcon beats peach, even with/slight advantage on marth, gets OMGWTFraped by Falco, gets ***** by Fox, and gets ***** by Sheik. So he gets ***** by everyone in top tier except marth, and only beats him slightly at best.
Spin-Dash
Smash Journeyman
YES! MARTH! :D
gdit I'm playing moar Melee just for this. Someone I can use. LOL
gdit I'm playing moar Melee just for this. Someone I can use. LOL
LumpyCPU...
Smash Hero
yay falcon in melee
JonaDiaper
Smash Champion
the fact the falcon can combo her so badly or atleast get the easy edgehog is why i think that. once sheik is off the edge shes most likely dead. even tho the same thing goes for falcon.
falcon can combo the crap out of marth. crazzyyy ****. but tech chasing ***** the spacies more then any other character. there fall speed and small size make the knee at 60% deadly. what can fox/falco do at 60% to kill them if falcon is still on the stage? nothing. falco's dair, fox's shine spike is all they got and thats going off the edge.
like i said, i dont think his matchups are as bad as you say they are. he definatly doesnt get ***** by anyone, but he can **** anyone with his ability to combo like no one else. even tho he has probably the worst and most predictable recovery in the game, as long as he is on the stage he is the greatesst. all people can do to beat him is like gimps
Fletch
Smash Master
Agree on Falcon beating Peach, would say at least slight advantage on Marth, does get ***** pretty hard by Falco, the Fox match isn't that bad, and Sheik I agree that he gets ***** by, although it isn't unwinnable as he can do some pretty nasty stuff to her.
XIF
Smash Master
I've been watching those videos. Pink Shinobi is definitely a great player, but he hasn't really brought anything new to the table from what I've seen. Nothing new has really been brought to the table since Mike G. Mike G invented Peach, Vidjo and Cort *******ized her to some really boring version (but did really great anyway, so it doesn't matter) and I just played Peach far faster and more aggressive than any of them.\
Peach is almost reassuringly 5th place and always 5th place in the tier list. She's really in her own pseudo tier. Noticeably better than the rest of the cast below her, but not quite great enough to be considered up there with Spacies and Marth.
Falcon is a fairly even match for Peach. Peach vs the other top tiers (excluding ICs) is entirely stage dependant. FD is by far her best stage vs Falco, whereas DL64 is probably her worst stage vs Falco. C. Falcon and Peach **** each other on FD. She definitely does better on YS, BF, and AMAZING on FoD, Platforms really ruin C. Falcon's mobility vs her, allowing her to use her hitboxes to overcome that speed. DL64 is big enough to be a blessing in disguise for C. Falcon, allowing him to surivive really long and use the higher platforms to actually help him maneuver.
Sheik has a much better time with Platforms against peach, allowing her to use her needles and aerials more effectively there, but sometimes on smaller ones like YS the size can work against her. FD allows peach more freedom but Sheik can really abuse priority on that stage. DL64 is usually your best bet.
Fox stages depend on playstyle, but generally, you can Play fox in one way or another to destroy peach on any stage.
Peach needs FD and DL64 to beat Marth.
choknater
Smash Obsessed
honestly i wonder how EC melee would do against mango
LumpyCPU...
Smash Hero
lol
i think i messed up.
i wasn't saying peach is going to be better than anyone she's not better than.
i just meant that she can be played better than i thought, meaning other characters could have higher potentials than we know of. ya dig?
edit: after seeing him in person... he's... soo... good.
he spaces too good. and he has the best fox/falco/jiggz on the west coast.
(and arguably the best falcon/sheik) wow... that sucks. lol
i think i messed up.
i wasn't saying peach is going to be better than anyone she's not better than.
i just meant that she can be played better than i thought, meaning other characters could have higher potentials than we know of. ya dig?
edit: after seeing him in person... he's... soo... good.
he spaces too good. and he has the best fox/falco/jiggz on the west coast.
(and arguably the best falcon/sheik) wow... that sucks. lol
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
While I won't dispute that Sheik is comboable, "so badly" is a gross exaggeration. Sheik DIing away shuts off a lot more than you think it does.
Falcon can edgeguard Sheik, that I agree with you.
I think you're missing the important feature Sheik has in the matchup, though, where her setups on Falcon are considerably easier than his setups on her. She has more room for error because of her low lag and high range mix. And her priority rocks him. The result is that she can produce openings with much more ease than vice versa. The matchup is not impossible for Falcon, but it's certainly not even, and it definitely favours Sheik.
That's also done without taking into consideration the fact that Sheik tech chases Falcon much better than he does on her (at least from throw; from other moves too, but the focus is throw because that's what both characters tend to aim to get); Falcon does not come equipped with such a stupidly amazing tech roll in fact his sucks. Falcon is much easier to death combo/tech chase (with Sheik) from a grab than vice versa.
Jona have you ever won an argument?
Anonymous.
Smash Lord
My boy DK finally getting the recognition he deserves =]
Roy got pushed down a bit too far, I still believe he is a tad better in the VS Young Link match-up. He should be a tad over Pikachu, but maybe that's pushing it. I am at least content that G&W got pushed to the bottom of Low Tier, it was much needed.
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