Official MBR Tier List

[goateeguy]

thank you! someone finally moved M2 out of the bottom!!!

 

[LumpyCPU...]

that's because he used confuse ray on the SBR.

 

[DrewB008]

jona needs to relax on the posting, cause he doesnt understand anything

sheik destroys falcon, spacies only slightly less, marth and peach are about even

not to mention more roughly even matchups like ice climbers and even luigi and pikachu can annoy falcon

falcon players travel basically as much as anyone else these days, meaning they go to the tournaments in their region and some really big ones outside, except silent spectre who has never traveled outside of cali to my knowledge. dont expect any revelations about falcon, most people understand what he's capable of matchup-wise at this point.

 

[LumpyCPU...]

maybe he's just not too good or doesn't play in a very evolved community.
lololol

sheik OBLITERATES falcon... imo.
(not too many sheik mains in norcal tho)

 

[Pink Shinobi]

I agree with the current tier list. And XIF, I liked your combo vid.

 

[JonaDiaper]

While I won't dispute that Sheik is comboable, "so badly" is a gross exaggeration. Sheik DIing away shuts off a lot more than you think it does.

Falcon can edgeguard Sheik, that I agree with you.

I think you're missing the important feature Sheik has in the matchup, though, where her setups on Falcon are considerably easier than his setups on her. She has more room for error because of her low lag and high range mix. And her priority rocks him. The result is that she can produce openings with much more ease than vice versa. The matchup is not impossible for Falcon, but it's certainly not even, and it definitely favours Sheik.

That's also done without taking into consideration the fact that Sheik tech chases Falcon much better than he does on her (at least from throw; from other moves too, but the focus is throw because that's what both characters tend to aim to get); Falcon does not come equipped with such a stupidly amazing tech roll in fact his sucks. Falcon is much easier to death combo/tech chase (with Sheik) from a grab than vice versa.

have you seen how darkrain ***** sheiks? well every other besides m2ks....but hes a different story.

Jona have you ever won an argument?

..........have you every shut up? lol

jona needs to relax on the posting, cause he doesnt understand anything

sheik destroys falcon, spacies only slightly less, marth and peach are about even

not to mention more roughly even matchups like ice climbers and even luigi and pikachu can annoy falcon

falcon players travel basically as much as anyone else these days, meaning they go to the tournaments in their region and some really big ones outside, except silent spectre who has never traveled outside of cali to my knowledge. dont expect any revelations about falcon, most people understand what he's capable of matchup-wise at this point.

ice climbers isnt a bad match, all you have to do is knee and raptor boost and thats like it.
i can agree with the lugi ish, and im not sure about pikachu but i know she gets chain grabbed. falcons really do need to move out and about, if i were like 3 years older i would be sooo freakin awesome. i would be everywhere

maybe he's just not too good or doesn't play in a very evolved community.
lololol

sheik OBLITERATES falcon... imo.
(not too many sheik mains in norcal tho)

i can assure you that im better then you....and that i am good. seen my videos? my friends that i played are all good.

obliterate you say?

like i said watch some darkrain vs sheik videos...except the ones vs m2k....

 

[KirbyKaze]

have you seen how darkrain ***** sheiks? well every other besides m2ks....but hes a different story.

Darkrain only death combos M2K once that entire set. Twice if you count the D-throw D-air gimp on Brinstar. Hit per hit, M2K averages more damage.

All of Darkrain's vids in that matchup are too old to be used as an example or versus people who are simply not in his league. No offense to his opponents, but Darkrain is too good. The Drephen set is like, circa 2005 and from COK2. I don't think looking into 2005 matches is good for judgment. It's just too outdated.

On that note, judging a matchup by Youtube vids is stupid.

 

[Transient]

JonaDiaper: Just because one person is good against Sheiks (Darkrain), doesn't mean that Falcon has the matchup. That logic makes no sense whatsoever.

 

[JonaDiaper]

the videos are old...but imagine since then how much hes gotten better. like i said the set vs m2k doesnt count. m2k is....m2k.

anyways i know other top falcons dont have a problem vs sheik.

scars a beast, ss not sure of, jianos good so i dont think he has a problem, um whos left, hax beat sw's sheik lol um idk, all i know is ive never seen videos of a sheik destroying a falcon, unless its m2k's sheik that is.

 

[T0MMY]

It's a shame noone ever bothered to try to be good with Pichu.

Hey, I didn't sandbag all the time X^D
I really was the only person that gave that character a chance. Top players like Chu and KDJ tried to play him in pro brackets and wouldn't stand a chance, it was more of a short-lived way to show how good they were (and they're really good).

There's a difference between applying one's core playing skill to ANY character and actually playing the character in tournament seriously.

I developed all the ATs for Pichu (see my guide that was stickied) and stood by the character even though I knew there was NO CHANCE in winning.
After years of playing him competitively I can say Kirby takes last spot on the bottom tier list and Pichu should take the last (and only) spot on the "Joke Tier" list.

 

[MimicMew]

thank you! someone finally moved M2 out of the bottom!!!

That would be Taj.

Because he has psychic powers.

 

[LumpyCPU...]

i can assure you that im better then you....and that i am good. seen my videos? my friends that i played are all good.

i love how you want me to know/think you're better than me when i don't even care about your skill. it doesn't matter. you probably ARE better than me. go watch MY videos. it's not like i place high at tournaments or anything, but i do know a thing or two about this and that. i know that i'm not the only one who considers some of your posts ridiculously ignorant.

have you seen how darkrain ***** sheiks? well every other besides m2ks....but hes a different story.

obliterate you say?

like i said watch some darkrain vs sheik videos...except the ones vs m2k....

again. i don't main falcon or sheik. and haven't done this match up at an extremely high level of play. i should say that IMO, sheik has a decent to strong advantage against falcon.

it's not very legit of you to name one falcon player and say he ***** all sheiks, then say except for m2k, because he's a different story.
well imo, darkrain is a lot better against sheiks and peaches, so he doesn't count, because he's "a different story"

you get where i'm going with this?
people don't win arguments online. lol
(lawl @ me being a hypocrite)

edit: go to a tournament instead of watching videos. only watching the top 4 or 5 players in the country might not give you a well rounded view on match ups or tiers.
but again, wtf do i know? i'm garbs. lol

 

[DrewB008]

actually jona, i personally know and converse with top falcons, and i can guarantee you they consider sheik a very bad matchup. try going to a tournament and watching players and/or playing good sheiks instead of assuming the vids on youtube are every match thats ever happened. i'd show you a vid of drephens sheik destroying my falcon from a couple months ago, but then you'd just assume i'm terrible because you're ignorant and i havent posted a billion videos on youtube to convince people who don't go to tournaments that i'm good.

and like i said, falcons travel as much as anyone. maybe you dont realize some specifics, like the fact that there has been one tournament within 8 hours of where darkrain lives in the past year or so, but if you really look at it falcons travel as much as anyone. the east coast is the biggest tournament hotspot, and the best falcon on the east coast, scar, just isnt as good as the likes of darkrain or ss. i like the guy, hes probably a little better than me, but he's not in the top class of falcons.

i didnt say ice climbers was a bad matchup, i said it was roughly even, and i guarantee im better than you at it. ive played all of the good ones and taken matches off of chu in tournament. any matchup where the other character has a guaranteed 0-death on you off of a grab is not gonna be easy though.

 

[LumpyCPU...]

try going to a tournament and watching players and/or playing good sheiks instead of assuming the vids on youtube are every match thats ever happened. i'd show you a vid of drephens sheik destroying my falcon from a couple months ago, but then you'd just assume i'm terrible because you're ignorant and i havent posted a billion videos on youtube to convince people who don't go to tournaments that i'm good.

you're cool. lol
i wish more people saw it this way. haha

i didnt say ice climbers was a bad matchup, i said it was roughly even, and i guarantee im better than you at it. ive played all of the good ones and taken matches off of chu in tournament. any matchup where the other character has a guaranteed 0-death on you off of a grab is not gonna be easy though.

wow. i've seen some BADBAD things done to falcons.
as i'm sure you know, ic's have a nice infinite on falcon (not wobbling) and it's fun to watch and horrible to play against. but then again, ic's have that on ganon to iirc, but he still has the advantage in that match due to range and what not.

 

[KevinM]

Hi my name is Jonas, I've never gone to a major tournament or played major players and therefore will base all of my knowledge off videos and baseless assumptions.

Oh sup Jonas nice to meet you.

 

[DrewB008]

hochiminh trail is the only ice climber who has ever actually 0-death cg'd me though, chu and wobbles both failed to finish me majority of the time

wobbles had like a billion other tricks though, and chu reads your jumps like a beast

 

[LumpyCPU...]

hochiminh trail is the only ice climber who has ever actually 0-death cg'd me though, chu and wobbles both failed to finish me majority of the time

wobbles had like a billion other tricks though, and chu reads your jumps like a beast

yeah, the 0-death potential isn't the only thing that makes ic's a threat, imo.
that's why you go peach or luigi.

 

[KirbyKaze]

scars a beast, ss not sure of, jianos good so i dont think he has a problem, um whos left, hax beat sw's sheik lol um idk, all i know is ive never seen videos of a sheik destroying a falcon, unless its m2k's sheik that is.

Scar said at one point (paraphrase) that Sheik is a brick wall, like Fox, where you need them to make mistakes in order to win, and that she is a miserable, miserable matchup at all levels of play.

How you can interpret that as "falcons dont have a problem vs sheik" is beyond my comprehension.

And, for fun, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qcat5Yjb6F0&feature=PlayList&p=33E7F779B41D1451&index=0&playnext=1

Because Youtube vids are the sole decider of the tier list and matchups.

 

[LumpyCPU...]

lol
don't link a random match to help your point. hahah
that would allow for some whack evidence for false cases.

 

[Winston]

the videos are old...but imagine since then how much hes gotten better. like i said the set vs m2k doesnt count. m2k is....m2k.

anyways i know other top falcons dont have a problem vs sheik.

scars a beast, ss not sure of, jianos good so i dont think he has a problem, um whos left, hax beat sw's sheik lol um idk, all i know is ive never seen videos of a sheik destroying a falcon, unless its m2k's sheik that is.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B2EbWOYOCKA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9SYTXHyMJuk

 

[LumpyCPU...]

videos aren't going to help. it's the big picture that matters.
and it's not going to convince anyone anyway. lolz

 

[Winston]

videos aren't going to help. it's the big picture that matters.
and it's not going to convince anyone anyway. lolz

I understand that videos don't mean anything. I just feel like finding evidence that directly contradicts the claims he's making in his post.

 

[LumpyCPU...]

i understand that. and people do that all the time with good intention.
but he could just go find a random vid of a falcon owning a sheik and link that to "prove" his point.
ya know?
idk
nvm haha i'm just being dumb

 

[Pink Reaper]

i understand that. and people do that all the time with good intention.
but he could just go find a random vid of a falcon owning a sheik and link that to "prove" his point.
ya know?
idk
nvm haha i'm just being dumb

Actually, it's really simple.

His point is "Top falcon's **** Sheiks with ease"

the counter point is "They don't"

Vids of top Falcon's getting ***** by Sheik disprove his point, whether he accepts it or not is all up to him.

 

[Gimpyfish62]

sheik does very well vs falcon and you're dumb if you disagree

amazing falcons destroying decent/good sheik's doesn't mean much

put amazing falcon vs amazing sheik and falcon is just outclassed in every way

basically @ most sheik players

you're doing it wrong.

 

[KirbyKaze]

lol
don't link a random match to help your point. hahah
that would allow for some whack evidence for false cases.

You can find evidence on Youtube to support any sort of argument. It's pretty LOL.

 

[LumpyCPU...]

LMAO
i'm agree with both of you. really.
but i just don't see why anyone is still willing to try to convince this person that he's wrong?
after the first statement it's meaningless.
that's like telling a nun that her religion is wrong...
whether you're right or not, won't matter, because that person's decision was made before you stepped into play.

p.s. i'm dumb

 

[goateeguy]

well i tried posting this on a thread someone made for non-official tier lists, knowing nobody here cares about my opinion (not to mention that in maybe 5 more minutes it's going to be three pages back and will never be read again), but the mods were all 'Oh no, another tier list thread! Go post it on the official one dangit!' So now i'm wasting my time copying and pasting this from the other thread. Enjoy

My tier list (i'd actually prefer you debate it than not)

DEMI-GOD TIER:
Fox - If his only move was the shine he'd still be pretty dang near the top. i gimp-killed a guy who was at 10% with this today. not only that, but he's the fastest character in the game period and he has several good kill moves. highest tier no doubt in my mind

TOP TIER:
Falco - Falco's pretty close to Fox, in fact if his shine spiked i would definately reconsider my order. not only is he relatively quick (a lot of lag you can chip off of his moves) but his combos can take you from 0-60 faster than a Porsche (pardon the terrible pun). he's a counterpick for fox and a pretty good all-around character. now if we could just fix his recovery a little...

Marth - This is where i really deviate from most lists. I think that marth is good because so many people play him. since he gets all the attention, his metagame gets most keenly developed, and his range and speed (dash->dashcancel->tipper fsmash ftw) give him a big advantage over a lot of characters

Sheik - I believe sheik was highest tier at some point, and he...she...whatever deserved it partially. blazing fast character, one of the best edgeguards in the game, and quick easy combos on a lot of different characters. sheik marth duels are some of the most interesting matches to watch cuz they're so close.

Peach - I've never played peach nor do i know anyone who plays her, this is purely on speculation and the knowledge that her downsmash is ****ing cheap.

C. Falcon - So you think you're doing well in a match, you're at about 50% and this falcon you've been comboing half to death is about to go down. all of a sudden instead of dodging like you thought he would, he dashes away from you, back towards you, knee, you're dead. 'nuf said.

MID-HIGH TIER:
IC's - If given the same amount of time to do so, the ICs could rack up more damage onto a given character than any other character in the game. Fact. Why aren't they higher then? Not enough people figuring out their metagame cuz getting nana to do what you want her to is so dang hard to get down. Props to Chudat for doing so much for this character

Samus - Best recovery in the game, show it to some noob who thinks you're beat and tell me otherwise. the problem is, with her floatiness and relatively slow attacks she kinda needs it for top-level play. missile spamming is a big part of her metagame.

Jiggs - the most mobile character in the game, but also likely the lightest and easiest to kill at low percentage. excellent edgeguarder, but i ain't playing jiggs when someone pulls out falco or something.

Doc - some very nice aerials (bair especially) give him a nice set of dastardly things to do to people...if he can get close enough. frankly he's a bit small compared to some other characters, and a marth can keep him at arms length way too easily.

Link - speed is a definite issue up close, but a lot of the time you can keep an opponent at bay with his many projectiles. very useful, in fact a lot of combos rely entirely on projectiles.

Ganon - Kind of here, kind of into mid tier. speed is obviously a factor, and his recovery is hard to sweetspot like falcon's is. strong as heck with whatever he lands though

MID TIER:
Mario - mario is the most balanced, boring character there is. no amazing advanced techniques light up mario matches, only the cape and plenty of fireballs

Young Link - like link only less so; smaller, weaker, a little quicker but also with less range.

Roy - like marth only less so; slower, less range, pretty strong but that's kind of irrelevant at high levels

Mewtwo - surprise surprise! you're thinking 'but officially isn't he lowest?!?' well frankly i don't know why. you have a few excellent mewtwo players out there like Taj who can do some really cool things with the character, and he has a long range and a versatile moveset to boot. the only major problem is a large hitbox and maybe a little more speed would be nice (ah but just look at ganon up there). debate if you like, i'm interested in the public opinion here

Luigi - great wavedash, up-b, all his real assets as far as i can see. a thoroughly under-the-radar character

zelda - rather slow and floaty, but she has fairs and bairs that are totally broken power-wise

LOW TIER:
Pikachu. i refuse to group him in the bottom cuz he's fast and he has a nice recovery.

BOTTOM TIER:
Ness - I've played around with him, and he's not too bad except for two things that screw him over competitively: his weird laggy, useless for coming up from the edge double jump, and obviously the terribly inconsistent, difficult, and disruptable up-b recovery move.

Bowser - yes i know, gimpyfish pwns at life and everybody loves him, but the fact is bowser relies on his up-b move for getting out of any tough situation and without it he's last place. end of story.

pichu - like pikachu only he flipping hurts himself. wtf

Donkey Kong - uair juggling, cargo throws, that's all DK has. otherwise he's just a big furry sandbag waiting for you to beat the living daylights out of him.

Game + Watch - I don't really find that much merit in him. unimpressive throws, smashes, combos, and i really despise the way they intentionally cut his frames per second to make him seem more old-school. hurts my eyes...

yoshi - two things that make yoshi difficult: lack of an up-b recovery and an unconventional, extremely lagged up sheild and rolling dodge. he has some damaging moves, and even a few combos, but you just can't survive with those two things.

kirby - very few kirbies out there and for good reason. he's slow, laggy, floaty, has a terrible range, and very few comboing moves. most of the time (with a few notable exceptions) bringing kirby out is a joke.

I don't think i forgot anyone...hope not. that's my input, flame at will.

 

[LumpyCPU...]

horrible depiction of falcon, imo.

but for your effort and mild humor, good job.
lol

 

[Fletch]

A lot of that is... just not right. Falco would be worse with Fox's shine, that would actually take away like half of his combo game right there. Samus doesn't have the best recovery in the game, and she's just not as good as some of the characters ahead of her. Also, what the hell at DK at bottom tier? Link in mid-high is also kind of crazy. I guess the rest of it isn't horrible.

EDIT: Just realized you put Mewtwo in Mid-tier... Just no, ask Taj or one of those good players what they think about the character, they will tell you he is horrible, they're just that good.

 

[JonaDiaper]

falcons description is true tho. if your falco at 50% and you go for a grab and falcon knees you, your dead. and if your marth youll get double knee'd

 

[JBM falcon08]

since when is falco a cp for fox.

thats not true.

 

[Kal]

You can tell someone has no clue what they're talking about when they place DK in bottom tier.

 

[Magus420]

DEMI-GOD TIER:
Fox

TOP TIER:
Falco
Marth - This is where i really deviate from most lists.
Sheik
Peach
C. Falcon

MID-HIGH TIER:
IC's
Samus
Jiggs
Doc
Link
Ganon

MID TIER:
Mario
Young Link
Roy
Mewtwo
V
Luigi
Zelda

LOW TIER:
Pikachu

BOTTOM TIER:
Ness
Bowser
Pichu
V
Donkey Kong
Game + Watch
Yoshi
Kirby

 

[DTKPch]

Animated gifs make every reply more interesting.

 

[Fletch]

since when is falco a cp for fox.

thats not true.

I would consider him one outside of FD. Slight advantage goes to Falco in the matchup.

 

[goateeguy]

EDIT: Just realized you put Mewtwo in Mid-tier... Just no, ask Taj or one of those good players what they think about the character, they will tell you he is horrible, they're just that good.

this was the desired response. everybody always says he's just terrible and never says why. is there any reason or is someone just going to say 'shut up noob' and forget i ever asked?

the way i see it he has several decent combos coming from his tilts (some of which cover almost as much space as marth's tilts) that are good for spacing but don't have so much knockback that you can't follow them up. he has a spike that though not perfect is usable as i have seen in a lot of videos. he has several nice throws, in fact his back throw is a reasonable kill move. on top of this he has a long recovery.

his weird double jump does hinder him a bit, and the lack of an attack move in his up-b leaves something to be desired, but how does that land him as low as it lands him?

oh, and to the donkey kong protesters my apologies, wrong placement.

and as if that weren't enough, no tier list i'd seen before had put marth so high. That one's for you Magus420 (keep in mind i put this up before i saw the tier list had been updated one more time)

that covers all the bases i'm bored enough to pay attention to. BLARGH!!!

 

[otg]

Ok... goateeguy.

A.) DK in bottom tier? And saying that all he has is Uair juggles and Cargo? How about instead; he has one of the best Bairs in the game, Combos out of all throws, fantastic Up B, etc etc. He might be a big target but to put him in bottom tier is just completely incorrect.

B.) M2 in Mid tier? wtf is that. I don't even need to justify this one with a response. Taj being good with him =/= M2 being good.

Besides that, there are only slight changes here and there from the normal tier list, so that's all good

 

[Binx]

why do people still argue about the tier list? it's **** right now, your not going to find a more accurate one.

 

[Fletch]

why do people still argue about the tier list? it's **** right now, your not going to find a more accurate one.

Unless Falcon was switched with Peach. I'll address Goateeguy in the morning.