Official MBR Tier List

[Grunt]

Mango Juice?
EDIT: directed @ Mana Lord
DOUBLEEDIT: yeah apparently SS beat Mango one set in finals of Mango Juice.
But to Mog's question, that would be...

never?

 

[TheManaLord]

haha yeah thats true, but only 2 of which m2k were there and they both have a host of johns attatched to them, either way, no johns. mango's the best but by saying such a large margin when he loses sets to a captain falcon (no offense to SS he's an amaaaaazing player but falcon gets gayed hard by the topest tiers) ? its hard to say hes the bset by A LOT

 

[Mogwai]

M2K is defensive about all his losses. if you choose to see this as johning, he has never legitimately lost a set in his life. knowing him, I treat them as his explanation, rather than his excuse.

and until I see Mang0 actually lose a tournament to someone, yea, I'll confidently say he's the best by a lot. he doesn't necessarily win the dominating fashion that we used to see M2K win in, but he never seems to leave without the W.

 

[DtJ Jungle]

He is the King. We talked so much **** how WC sucks (they still do) then he comes over and wrecks all our ****. He is the best right now. There shouldn't even be a debate about this.

 

[Pink Reaper]

SS never won a set against Mango at mango juice. He won a match 2 in winners semi finals against Mango's puff, then went 2-3 in grand finals.

@Mana, I don't think you fully understand how amazing SS is as a player. He eats his Mango Puffs for breakfast, which is why Mango goes Falco/Fox against him. SS has never beaten mango in a tourney set, he doesn't lose sets to falcon.

 

[Laijin]

cuz he'd ban marth, and mango is better that him?

Now your seriously trolling bro.
Mango has a better Falco than Shiz?
go kill yourself bro.

 

[strawhats]

Pink reaper mango has lost a set. he got 3-0 'd by SS at CGC @ SFSU VII on 4/4/09.

However Mango came out of losers to 6-0 SS's ***.

I really don't think m2k's marth would lose to mango's spacies or any other characters when he goes marth. It comes down to jiggz being a thorn in m2k's side.

P.S. mango has great secondaries but the only one of them that could give m2k problems is mango's falcon. If only m2k made fox a monster than jiggz would have a real challenge.

 

[TheManaLord]

SS never won a set against Mango at mango juice. He won a match 2 in winners semi finals against Mango's puff, then went 2-3 in grand finals.

@Mana, I don't think you fully understand how amazing SS is as a player. He eats his Mango Puffs for breakfast, which is why Mango goes Falco/Fox against him. SS has never beaten mango in a tourney set, he doesn't lose sets to falcon.

he JUST 3-0'd mango in tourny


then got stomped in winners, it was the example i was citing earlier

 

[Mogwai]

Now your seriously trolling bro.

no, you're stupid.

M2K said that he thinks he would win a set where he and Mang0 each get to ban a character. you're clearly completely missing this aspect of the discussion

Mango has a better Falco than Shiz?

probably. it's at least comparable. if you'd seen them dittoing at RoM or Mang0's Falco ever, you'd understand.

go kill yourself bro.

no u.

 

[DtJ Jungle]

Mogwai for best interwebz arguer

Mang0's falco has RIDICULOUS (godlike) spacing. This is how he hangs with Shiz.

 

[JBM falcon08]

^ thank you for correcting everyone.

Has SS even taken a set from mango yet?

I will be very interested in seeing m2k get his fox back in shape. His fox was undeniably the fox that everyone knew was the best one back around scc pound 3.

I'd like to see m2k play like he did at scc against mango with marth.

Why would they character ban each other? because m2k has some psychological barrier of fearing his jiggs? I would never take a win over a pro if i couldn't beat their best char.

 

[Mogwai]

The big problem that I have with M2K's fox is that it's really old school and as such doesn't fight Falcos well. He should watch JMan play the matchup a bunch and l2rapeFalcoback wif fawks.

 

[Laijin]

snip

wut.
no u.

 

[Tom]

Now your seriously trolling bro.
Mango has a better Falco than Shiz?
go kill yourself bro.

wut.
no u.

stop it with the borderline responses

 

[TheManaLord]

holy **** everybody keeps saying mango's never lost a ****ing set are you all dumb ignorant *******s he lost just 10 days ago god and he lost at pound 3 too no ****ing johns for that **** if ppl cant john for m2k. a loss is a loss and a win is a win with a big old PERIOD right here

he's lost sets but has won every tourny so don't call me on that i'm not denying that i'm just correcting these other fallacies

and with char bans

m2k

might win

but its still in mango's favor

sheik is pretty good i doubt m2k would pick anyone other than sheik in that scenario

 

[Mogwai]

holy **** everybody keeps saying mango's never lost a ****ing set are you all dumb ignorant *******s he lost just 10 days ago god and he lost at pound 3 too no ****ing johns for that **** if ppl cant john for m2k. a loss is a loss and a win is a win with a big old PERIOD right here

he's lost sets but has won every tourny so don't call me on that i'm not denying that i'm just correcting these other fallacies

and with char bans

m2k

might win

but its still in mango's favor

sheik is pretty good i doubt m2k would pick anyone other than sheik in that scenario

chill dude, just post a link to the matches your talking about and then flip out on everyone. I'm not doubting you, I'm just saying you'll look more credible and make everyone else look like more of an *** by posting direct evidence in your favor.

 

[Laijin]

stop it with the borderline responses

Darnit.
Your everywhere I go Tom.
Your like my personal mod or something.
lol.

 

[halcyon.days]

I don't play many Jiggs as Marth, but how come M2K doesn't think he can beat jiggs with Marth? I realize that Fox is obviously the better option, but...

In the few matches I've seen of his Marth vs Mang0's Jiggs, he does reasonably well.

 

[TheManaLord]

Because he can't get it through his head he's just gotta camp out the whole match. He's too fast and not experienced to play the matchup. That's what he says at least, he's inexperienced or just plain out bad v jiggs.

But really, he plays brawl, he should have no trouble being marth and just standing around.

 

[JPOBS]

everyone keeps saying that mango's falco is phantasmagorical but i dont see it. I honestly just see a solid falco.
he's no shiz for sure.

anyone mind posting a link to any matches you may have in mind to change my mind?

 

[ihavespaceblondes]

everyone keeps saying that mango's falco is phantasmagorical but i dont see it. I honestly just see a solid falco.
he's no shiz for sure.

anyone mind posting a link to any matches you may have in mind to change my mind?

The people he consistently beats with Falco are what make him more than "just a solid falco".

 

[skyheart]

Why hasn't anyone made a player tier list, I really don't care about the stupid character tier list anymore.

 

[Mogwai]

Why hasn't anyone made a player tier list, I really don't care about the stupid character tier list anymore.

pretty much every region has power rankings.

if you'd want one that was national and not regional, there's nothing recent enough to really use as a good jumping point for comparing players from different sides of the country.

 

[DtJ Jungle]

everyone keeps saying that mango's falco is phantasmagorical but i dont see it. I honestly just see a solid falco.
he's no shiz for sure.

anyone mind posting a link to any matches you may have in mind to change my mind?

He doesn't have Shiz's flash if thats waht you mean. But Mang0 has ridiculous prediction, reaction, adaptation and spacing. Very subtle things that are what take a player to the next level.

 

[JPOBS]

He doesn't have Shiz's flash if thats waht you mean. But Mang0 has ridiculous prediction, reaction, adaptation and spacing. Very subtle things that are what take a player to the next level.

I agree but that just comes with him being a genuinely great player.

He has a skill set encompassing spacing, prediction etc that he's developed and he is unnatuarally good at these kinds of things as a player and they generally transfer well from on char to another.
He went 2-2 with SilentSpectre in falcon dittos for christs sake but i attribute that more to him being a great player than him having a falcon as good as jeff's in his back pocket.

I guess what im saying is, yea his falco is great and he beats good people with it, but when i wouldnt call it the best falco out there.

 

[pockyD]

the fact that you just identified two mango set losses more than a year apart demonstrates how clearly dominant he is

at pound3, he lost to silent wolf in link dittos or something ridiculous like that. The obscene path he took after that to get to 1st place should truly answer whether that set carried any meaning

at scsa, he lost to fly amanita. he was playing barlw, got careless, and got wobbled. Regardless, that's all legit, but it was also legit that he got back into grand finals and took it 6-0

last week, he lost to SS, but once again, came back and 6-0 in grand finals

don't mess with mr. try hard

if his falco beats the most people (not that it necessarily does, just pointing out this is a stupid point to be making), why wouldn't it be considered the best? Fact of the matter is, when m2k was in his prime, he was probably best in the world with at least 2/3 of the cast, and there's no reason mango can't be the same just because random smashboarders don't want to see their heroes relegated to second best

and the fact that you're looking for a single video to impress you and convince you that he's the best is evidence enough that you probably don't know what you're talking about

it seems like by your standards, the best player in the world isn't allowed to be the best player with any specific character, since it's just "him being amazing" instead of "him being amazing with the character"

there's no national PR because there's no samples to take from. Back in the day, the coasts probably played like twice a year, and if you wanted to base rankings off of their interaction, you could just look at the results directly.

 

[otg]

Pocky just owned this thread.

 

[Binx]

yeah, way to go pocky. I dunno, Chu Dat ONLY plays ICs in serious melee tournament matches from what I've seen, Wobbles knows the character better I think and does more amazing things, but he doesn't win as often either, cause of whatever thing that separates them, so if you say Chu has the best ICs cause he places the best or beats the best people with them, then its only fair to say Mango has the best whatever he wants.

So yeah, just cause he doesn't look as impressive doesn't make him any worse with the characters. Also some flashy combos might be risky which is why mango doesn't go for them, cause he doesn't know if you will tech whatever direction and doesn't want to risk a bad position if he is wrong or something.

 

[JPOBS]

if his falco beats the most people (not that it necessarily does, just pointing out this is a stupid point to be making), why wouldn't it be considered the best? Fact of the matter is, when m2k was in his prime, he was probably best in the world with at least 2/3 of the cast, and there's no reason mango can't be the same just because random smashboarders don't want to see their heroes relegated to second best

and the fact that you're looking for a single video to impress you and convince you that he's the best is evidence enough that you probably don't know what you're talking about

it seems like by your standards, the best player in the world isn't allowed to be the best player with any specific character, since it's just "him being amazing" instead of "him being amazing with the character"

Because Shiz also "beats most people".

The only person shiz has lost to directly in a big tourny recently has been M2k and by extension of bracket, mango. thats it. It has nothing to do with me being a random smashboarder and Shiz being my hero.

Im not looking for a single video to impress thanks for taking that completely out of context. I was just throwing that out there just if anyone had anything in mind i'd be interested in seeing it. I wasnt saying "Show me why mango is the best falco vids or it didnt happen" i was saying "I've seen mangos falco at tourny and its good yes, but if theres anythign in particular that sets his FALCO apart from any other falco and i've missed it somehow im glad to look at it. "

So back to my original point. Mango beats everyone on WC with whoever he wants and thats all fine and dandy but when he plays EC's finest, he goes Puff. We've yet to see much of mango's falco against the likes of EC where as we consistently see Shiz beat everyone on EC with falco alone losing only close games to mew2king. and lets face it, its effing m2k.

On a side note, Shiz beat mango in a MM playing Fox vs mangos falco.
shiz's fox isnt as good as his falco, so I'll leave that one up to you to figure out, granted its "just" a mm /johns.

 

[Mogwai]

Because Shiz also "beats most people".

The only person shiz has lost to directly in a big tourny recently has been M2k and by extension of bracket, mango. thats it. It has nothing to do with me being a random smashboarder and Shiz being my hero.

Im not looking for a single video to impress thanks for taking that completely out of context. I was just throwing that out there just if anyone had anything in mind i'd be interested in seeing it. I wasnt saying "Show me why mango is the best falco vids or it didnt happen" i was saying "I've seen mangos falco at tourny and its good yes, but if theres anythign in particular that sets his FALCO apart from any other falco and i've missed it somehow im glad to look at it. "

So back to my original point. Mango beats everyone on WC with whoever he wants and thats all fine and dandy but when he plays EC's finest, he goes Puff. We've yet to see much of mango's falco against the likes of EC where as we consistently see Shiz beat everyone on EC with falco alone losing only close games to mew2king. and lets face it, its effing m2k.

On a side note, Shiz beat mango in a MM playing Fox vs mangos falco.
shiz's fox isnt as good as his falco, so I'll leave that one up to you to figure out, granted its a mm /mangojohns.

Mang0 packed Cactuar and JMan's **** in on Saturday with Falco.

The Fox vs. Falco MM doesn't convince me, seeing as how Shiz's Fox is the only one that took a game off M2K at RoM. That leads me to believe that Shiz is probably more comfortable with Fox in some matchups than Falco.

 

[DtJ Jungle]

He beat the EC's finest playing the matchup EC favor.

He beat Cactuar in Fox/Falcon. I know there are some more but that's the one that stands out at the moment.

Also, M2K isn't god. Especially now. so saying 'it's effing M2K' doesn't have the same meaning it does a year ago.


edit: shiz rarely plays the game, the last time he did he played at a tourney in december, but he iirc he doesn't even own the game, or didn't for long before RoM

 

[pockyD]

Because Shiz also "beats most people".

The only person shiz has lost to directly in a big tourny recently has been M2k and by extension of bracket, mango. thats it. It has nothing to do with me being a random smashboarder and Shiz being my hero.

Im not looking for a single video to impress thanks for taking that completely out of context. I was just throwing that out there just if anyone had anything in mind i'd be interested in seeing it. I wasnt saying "Show me why mango is the best falco vids or it didnt happen" i was saying "I've seen mangos falco at tourny and its good yes, but if theres anythign in particular that sets his FALCO apart from any other falco and i've missed it somehow im glad to look at it. "

So back to my original point. Mango beats everyone on WC with whoever he wants and thats all fine and dandy but when he plays EC's finest, he goes Puff. We've yet to see much of mango's falco against the likes of EC where as we consistently see Shiz beat everyone on EC with falco alone losing only close games to mew2king. and lets face it, its effing m2k.

On a side note, Shiz beat mango in a MM playing Fox vs mangos falco.
shiz's fox isnt as good as his falco, so I'll leave that one up to you to figure out, granted its a mm /mangojohns.

Well, what I meant by "not that it necessarily does" is that I necessarily don't think Mango's falco is better or more proven than shiz's falco. In fact, I'm completely unqualified to make that judgment

What I'M saying is that your "original point" was this

everyone keeps saying that mango's falco is phantasmagorical but i dont see it. I honestly just see a solid falco.
he's no shiz for sure.

anyone mind posting a link to any matches you may have in mind to change my mind?

You're using the eyeball test on a ridiculously small and selective sample of matches to make your determination. All I was saying is that that is far from a valid criteria for making such a call

I agree but that just comes with him being a genuinely great player.

He has a skill set encompassing spacing, prediction etc that he's developed and he is unnatuarally good at these kinds of things as a player and they generally transfer well from on char to another.
He went 2-2 with SilentSpectre in falcon dittos for christs sake but i attribute that more to him being a great player than him having a falcon as good as jeff's in his back pocket.

I guess what im saying is, yea his falco is great and he beats good people with it, but when i wouldnt call it the best falco out there.

This is closer to being right... but still the wrong conclusion.

If, hypothetically, player X used only laser and fsmash and managed to win every single tournament, he WOULD be the "best" falco, even if he isn't coming close to tapping falco's potential, simply because he outperforms other falcos.

short version: I don't necessarily disagree that shiz may or may not be better than mango, but I think we are both less than qualified enough to be able to make that distinction. Your way of judging "better/best" is different from what it should be.

 

[JPOBS]

Mang0 packed Cactuar and JMan's **** in on Saturday with Falco.

The Fox vs. Falco MM doesn't convince me, seeing as how Shiz's Fox is the only one that took a game off M2K at RoM. That leads me to believe that Shiz is probably more comfortable with Fox in some matchups than Falco.

hmm true, see thats what i meant when i asked for vids, if the matches jsut happened on saturday i obviously wasnt there so i havent seen them but now im gonna go look for em haha.

And true, it could be a matchup preference thing.

 

[Mogwai]

his sets with Cactus and JMan were both rather savage. standard Mang0, nothing overly flashy, just him outclassing the opponent by quite a bit. Scar has the matches, which means they'll probably be up sometime within the next week or so as long as no one asks him for them (in which case he'll stall them forever out of spite).

 

[JPOBS]

Well, what I meant by "not that it necessarily does" is that I necessarily don't think Mango's falco is better or more proven than shiz's falco. In fact, I'm completely unqualified to make that judgment

What I'M saying is that your "original point" was this



You're using the eyeball test on a ridiculously small and selective sample of matches to make your determination. All I was saying is that that is far from a valid criteria for making such a call



This is closer to being right... but still the wrong conclusion.

If, hypothetically, player X used only laser and fsmash and managed to win every single tournament, he WOULD be the "best" falco, even if he isn't coming close to tapping falco's potential, simply because he outperforms other falcos.

short version: I don't necessarily disagree that shiz may or may not be better than mango, but I think we are both less than qualified enough to be able to make that distinction. Your way of judging "better/best" is different from what it should be.

Agreed on all points except:
"You're using the eyeball test on a ridiculously small and selective sample of matches to make your determination. All I was saying is that that is far from a valid criteria for making such a call"

the same could be said in favor of proclaiming mangos falco the best.

meh your right though, we havent seen enough of mango's falco to call it either way.

 

[DtJ Jungle]

No we are proclaiming Mango's falco is the best because it has been seen in person wrecking people.

 

[KAOSTAR]

Yea mango isnt invincible and as we all kno neither is m2k.

Id really like to see jason just say **** it and put some work in and get back to his prime. Like I said before, Its so much better for the community when ppl are just gettin ridiculous and awwwmazing cuz it builds hype.

I wanna see some 1k+ mm$. best of 19 lol.

Im repping WC all day and back mango but I have nothing against M2k. Just I think that if mango wants to go puff then thats fine. Why would you say Im gonna handicap you and not let u go ur best character. besides ppl say mangos puff isnt as good as it use to be.

I guess they can go 25 blind and just work their way down the entire list of characters that they secretly set starting from worse to best. That will prove who is better 4 sho.

 

[strawhats]

that idea just migt work. Like i've been saying Jason won't stay down for long by the time Genesis rolls around he'll have enough tourney matches and friendly matches with lol master to return to his prime/ at least close to it. Trust me m2k has alot more competition than in recent years. DSW, Mango,SS, Armada, Amsah, PC Chris, Raynex, Kage, Chu Dat, maybe even kdj if he gets his **** together. The point is m2k's gotta ****load of challeners willing to take him down.

P.S. if mango wants to be the best he'll have to play other country's best players.

 

[pockyD]

some of those names are not like the others

 

[Mew2King]

lol wow he already is the best and im the 2nd best, even if one of us just randomly suck one tourney it won't change our record