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Official MBR Tier List

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handsockpuppet

handsockpuppet

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CykoFox said:
shiek, fox, marth, falco.
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I personally believe Falco will go back to second, or at least third. Even though I love Falco, and think he's underrated, It's hard for me to say I think he should be above monsters like Fox, Sheik, and Marth. but recently DaShizWiz, Mango, Forward, and many other Falco mains have ***** in the tournaments, so he may go above one space (I'm not even going to try to guess who'll go down one, because I have very mixed opinions about all of the top 3).

P.S. I still think we should discuss Luigi's placement.
 
skyheart

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handsockpuppet said:
I personally believe Falco will go back to second, or at least third. Even though I love Falco, and think he's underrated, It's hard for me to say I think he should be above monsters like Fox, Sheik, and Marth. but recently DaShizWiz, Mango, Forward, and many other Falco mains have ***** in the tournaments, so he may go above one space (I'm not even going to try to guess who'll go down one, because I have very mixed opinions about all of the top 3).

P.S. I still think we should discuss Luigi's placement.
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None of them have beaten a marth main in a tourney set. Falco is not above Marth/Fox/Sheik.
 
handsockpuppet

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KevinM

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Probably not, you could make an argument for being above Peach but considering how well Cort just did at RoM and PC also using Peach throughout I would say again its not a valid argument.
 
Grmo

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Here's a bunch of crap I wrote. I hope you find it useful somehow :)

Changes and stuffs that I think need to be made:

Top
Sheik
Fox
Marth

Sheik is better than both Fox and Marth...that's arguable because her punishment game is probably the best in the game. Not only that, but her range, priority, 0-death capability, and ultimately her controlling ability make her arguably the best character. Also, Marth is not as good as Fox, since his punishment game is only really **** vs spacies. It's close between Sheik and Fox, but there are just some simple advantages, such as the fact that she can 0-death Fox and Marth out of a grab or even a single hit, but neither of them can do it to her. However, Fox's punishment game is also pretty ****, giving him a slight advantage over Sheik. The essence of this punishment game (his shine and speed) are why he is better than Marth.


Upper (?)
Falco
Jigglypuff

TBH, Falco doesnt belong in top tier. There's a difference between him and the top tiers, being that he's limited in a lot of ways, in terms of comboing and approach specifically. He's just not as good as those three, and thus I think he should be in a separate tier. Also, Jigglypuff is rising up to be one of the best characters. With her aerial mobility and priority (often making her nearly impossible to approach), as well as her RIDICULOUS punishment game, she is definitely far too low on this list. I think she's just as good as Falco.


High
Peach
Ganondorf
Captain Falcon
Donkey Kong
Ice Climbers

Peach is a no brainer. Ganondorf, however, was definitely too low on this tier list. His priority and potential speed, as demonstrated by Kage, can be immensely awesome. He can get quick, short combos for a lot of damage (for example, his Dair does 22%, which can lead in to a Fair or something for a total of 40% or thereabouts). In terms of matchups, I think he does rather badly vs the characters higher up than him. He gets absolutely destroyed by spacies and Sheik, and Marth for that matter too, although that matchup is nowhere near as bad simply because his priority + range on his fair help to combat Marth, as well as the fact that Marth's combos vs Ganon are not very strong. If you really don't believe me, go watch Kage play, and note that he just placed 5th at Revival (which is more to do with the fact that he's an absolutely amazing player but I think it helps Ganon's case here).

Falcon I'm sure no one will argue with. His priority is TERRIBLE, but his punishment game, combos, and most of all his speed make him a decent character. He can go even with Marth, and he can do a lot of damage to Falco and Peach, but I think he gets eviscerated by Sheik/Fox/Jiggs (the latter because of priority ****, although that matchup isn't as bad). In any case, he is below Ganon.

Now, on to Donkey Kong. You're probably thinking "wtf?", but consider his amazing punishment game vs spacies. Then, consider his Uair, giving him a huge amount of priority above him, as well as his Bair, which is pretty amazing. While his grab range is misleadingly small, the combos that come from it give him an edge in the game that a lot of characters would probably like. He doesn't do so well vs Jigglypuff, and of course there's the problem with Sheik and Marth (especially Sheik), and the fact that his sheild is awful, but he's got a lot going for him. This is probably my most controversial placing, and I'd like to hear what you think of it.

I don't think you will argue with Ice Climbers, considering how hard it is to start up combos for them. It's arguable that they should be mid tier.

Middle
Dr. Mario
Samus
Link
Luigi
Mario

Samus is extremely gimpable and definitely not the stock-tanking monster she once was. Her priority is awful, and the only reason she's not bottom is because the other three are worse than she is.

Link is definitely better than the Mario Bros. His priority, range, and projectiles all make him a lot more versatile and more suited to dealing out damage. Luigi has a lot of potential in terms of combos, but he's weak as feck and is still a terrible character. God, Mario sucks even more.

I don't really want to do low tier atm because I don't think it's that important. Anyway, let's talk about this. I've been talking with a lot of people about this and this is my current opinion, so any feedback and discussion is appreciated.
 
KevinM

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I can't agree at all with you saying Falco is limited in his approach and combo game.

That shows that you don't have an understanding of that character.
 
Dark Sonic

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Not to mention that Sheik has absolutely no zero to death combos on Marth. Where'd you even get that idea anyway? Marth combos Sheik better than vice versa, Sheik just wins out on that matchup because of her superior spacing ability (allowing her to essentially outspace Marth and get some two-three hit combos in over and over). And that Marth's punishment game is arguably better against the more common tournament characters, which is really all that matters (how often are you going to be using that Shiek chaingrab in actual tournaments where nobody plays a character that she can chaingrab).

Have you ever heard of "positioning advantages" or "spacing" before? Try just "being" above a good Marth and say that he doesn't punish as hard or harder than Sheik.

It is arguable that Sheik is better than Marth, but your reasoning was just terrible.
 
Mogwai

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Grmo said:
Here's a bunch of crap I wrote. I hope you find it useful somehow :)

Changes and stuffs that I think need to be made:

Top
Sheik
Fox
Marth

Sheik is better than both Fox and Marth...that's arguable because her punishment game is probably the best in the game. Not only that, but her range, priority, 0-death capability, and ultimately her controlling ability make her arguably the best character. Also, Marth is not as good as Fox, since his punishment game is only really **** vs spacies. It's close between Sheik and Fox, but there are just some simple advantages, such as the fact that she can 0-death Fox and Marth out of a grab or even a single hit, but neither of them can do it to her. However, Fox's punishment game is also pretty ****, giving him a slight advantage over Sheik. The essence of this punishment game (his shine and speed) are why he is better than Marth.
Click to expand...
You say punishment too much without really talking about it. Each of these characters punish different mistakes better than the others and with you just throwing the term out there I think you're losing sight of how to make your argument. Also, saying that Fox and Marth can't 0-death Sheik and Sheik can 0-death them is simply wrong.


Grmo said:
Upper (?)
Falco
Jigglypuff

TBH, Falco doesnt belong in top tier. There's a difference between him and the top tiers, being that he's limited in a lot of ways, in terms of comboing and approach specifically. He's just not as good as those three, and thus I think he should be in a separate tier. Also, Jigglypuff is rising up to be one of the best characters. With her aerial mobility and priority (often making her nearly impossible to approach), as well as her RIDICULOUS punishment game, she is definitely far too low on this list. I think she's just as good as Falco.
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I sorta agreed with this sentiment about 3 days ago, but after watching Shiz and Mang0 play Falco and Mang0 and Hungrybox play Jiggs I think that they both belong in the top tier. You can say that they are both definitely below the top 3, and that's fine, but they are not worse by a wide enough margin to merit their own tier. I think Falco and Jiggs are both perfectly awesome and capable of winning at the highest level of play and think they are essentially tied for the 4th spot. Though, the more I think about it, the more I wonder if we all just hate Jiggs too much to even consider that she's in the same league as the top 3...

Grmo said:
High
Peach
Ganondorf
Captain Falcon
Donkey Kong
Ice Climbers

Peach is a no brainer. Ganondorf, however, was definitely too low on this tier list. His priority and potential speed, as demonstrated by Kage, can be immensely awesome. He can get quick, short combos for a lot of damage (for example, his Dair does 22%, which can lead in to a Fair or something for a total of 40% or thereabouts). In terms of matchups, I think he does rather badly vs the characters higher up than him. He gets absolutely destroyed by spacies and Sheik, and Marth for that matter too, although that matchup is nowhere near as bad simply because his priority + range on his fair help to combat Marth, as well as the fact that Marth's combos vs Ganon are not very strong. If you really don't believe me, go watch Kage play, and note that he just placed 5th at Revival (which is more to do with the fact that he's an absolutely amazing player but I think it helps Ganon's case here).

Falcon I'm sure no one will argue with. His priority is TERRIBLE, but his punishment game, combos, and most of all his speed make him a decent character. He can go even with Marth, and he can do a lot of damage to Falco and Peach, but I think he gets eviscerated by Sheik/Fox/Jiggs (the latter because of priority ****, although that matchup isn't as bad). In any case, he is below Ganon.

Now, on to Donkey Kong. You're probably thinking "wtf?", but consider his amazing punishment game vs spacies. Then, consider his Uair, giving him a huge amount of priority above him, as well as his Bair, which is pretty amazing. While his grab range is misleadingly small, the combos that come from it give him an edge in the game that a lot of characters would probably like. He doesn't do so well vs Jigglypuff, and of course there's the problem with Sheik and Marth (especially Sheik), and the fact that his sheild is awful, but he's got a lot going for him. This is probably my most controversial placing, and I'd like to hear what you think of it.

I don't think you will argue with Ice Climbers, considering how hard it is to start up combos for them. It's arguable that they should be mid tier.
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Peach is hardly a no brainer. I think arguments can be made for CF being over her, but ultimately, I think they are roughly at the same level and their ordering on the list is as irrelevant as Jiggs/Falco's ordering. Ganon is not better than Falcon by any stretch of the imagination. Kage's a beast, but Ganon is a hugely limited character and just as you can't put ICs above Falcon and Peach on the back of just Chu, you can't put Ganon above Falcon on the back of just Kage. DK is much more limited than you think and it's not even debatable that he should be above ICs IMO. ICs Ganon is a tough ordering, but ultimately I just think ICs are better, hard to explain why.

Grmo said:
Middle
Donkey Kong
Dr. Mario
Samus
Link
Luigi
Mario

Samus is extremely gimpable and definitely not the stock-tanking monster she once was. Her priority is awful, and the only reason she's not bottom is because the other three are worse than she is.

Link is definitely better than the Mario Bros. His priority, range, and projectiles all make him a lot more versatile and more suited to dealing out damage. Luigi has a lot of potential in terms of combos, but he's weak as feck and is still a terrible character. God, Mario sucks even more.

I don't really want to do low tier atm because I don't think it's that important. Anyway, let's talk about this. I've been talking with a lot of people about this and this is my current opinion, so any feedback and discussion is appreciated.
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DK is probably in this tier (he appears twice in your list) under Samus. Your analysis of Samus is just wrong. She's not as gimpable as you seem to thing and LMAO at "Her priority is awful," I guess you haven't seen her nair... Samus DK are pretty close, but the fact that Samus doesn't have to approach with only 2 options (she doesn't have to approach at all in many matchups) makes her better IMO. I think the Link Mario Luigi analysis here is also just uninformed drivel that's not worth talking about.
 
Binx

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Grmo said:
Here's a bunch of crap I wrote. I hope you find it useful somehow :)

Changes and stuffs that I think need to be made:

Top
Sheik
Fox
Marth

Upper (?)
Falco
Jigglypuff

High
Peach
Ganondorf
Captain Falcon
Donkey Kong
Ice Climbers

Middle
Donkey Kong
Dr. Mario
Samus
Link
Luigi
Mario
Click to expand...
@ Sheik, Fox, Marth - Marth Sheik Fox - maybe but I'm inclined to go with the tier list since all three are beast.
@Falco Puff - they both belong in top tier they are slightly worse than the top 3 but not by enough to be taken down, good Falcos do fine against all top 3 characters.
@High tier - Peach/Falcon, ICs, Ganon, I think ganon is better than samus so he should be higher, but I dunno, maybe its just cause I've never seen a samus really do much of anything, not that I haven't had my share of beatings by aftermath.

@the rest - your just wrong. Also Samus is very very difficult to gimp, she has some recovery options you probably just don't see. Unpredictable bomb jumps with a grapple and a pretty chill up b, she can vary her recovery by a lot and get back from incredible distances, there was a time when people thought she might have the best recovery in this game, so.... yeah.
 
Grmo

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Thanks for all the feedback. This is very helpful. :)
KevinM said:
I can't agree at all with you saying Falco is limited in his approach and combo game.

That shows that you don't have an understanding of that character.
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That's not what I said at all, unless I was being lazy like with the rest of the post and just didn't clarify. He's just more limited than the top 3, that's all I meant. Anyway, it's true that he is more limited in comboing than the others. Generally, his shine to dair combos are the bulk of his combos because the rest can be DI'd out of far too easily. However, I'm wrong about approaching; I don't know why I said that.

ihavespaceballs said:
I can't agree with you because you have Donkey Kong in two different tiers.
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I can't believe I missed that lol. Thanks for pointing that out.

Dark Sonic said:
Not to mention that Sheik has absolutely no zero to death combos on Marth. Where'd you even get that idea anyway? Marth combos Sheik better than vice versa, Sheik just wins out on that matchup because of her superior spacing ability (allowing her to essentially outspace Marth and get some two-three hit combos in over and over). And that Marth's punishment game is arguably better against the more common tournament characters, which is really all that matters (how often are you going to be using that Shiek chaingrab in actual tournaments where nobody plays a character that she can chaingrab).

Have you ever heard of "positioning advantages" or "spacing" before? Try just "being" above a good Marth and say that he doesn't punish as hard or harder than Sheik.

It is arguable that Sheik is better than Marth, but your reasoning was just terrible.
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I don't think it's terrible. Think about it. Sheik can easily get 60% on Marth simply out of a grab, and depending on positioning, can edgeguard from there fairly easily there too. Marth, however can't punish Sheik nearly that much; her tech roll is a little too big for Marth to tech chase properly. I don't think it makes much sense to deny the fact that Sheik outcombos Marth by a long shot, unless you play with people with bad DI, but I'd have to testify that against whatever combos you have in mind for me to necessarily think that I'm right here.

Also, "Have you ever heard of "positioning advantages" or "spacing" before? Try just "being" above a good Marth and say that he doesn't punish as hard or harder than Sheik." is a far too narrow statement. You're just listing a situation where Marth has the advantage. Besides, of course I'm familiar with these things. Besides, the Marth doesnt have to be good lol.

EDIT: Ken Combo magically stops working when you hold away.

Mogwai said:
You say punishment too much without really talking about it. Each of these characters punish different mistakes better than the others and with you just throwing the term out there I think you're losing sight of how to make your argument. Also, saying that Fox and Marth can't 0-death Sheik and Sheik can 0-death them is simply wrong.
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You're right about my misuse of punishment. I got lazy with it I think, and just rushed through it. I should have backed it up, just like you should have backed up your statement that Sheik can't 0-death Fox or Marth, which I think it untrue because, in the case of Fox, Sheik tech chases very easily and can rack up a lot of damage doing that and juggling once you get to a higher percent. Edgeguarding Fox is easy as well, and all this can be done out of a grab. As for Marth, while it may not be true that Sheik can 0-death him, it's true that she can get a lot of damage on him from only a grab, no matter how the Marth DI's.

Mogwai said:
I sorta agreed with this sentiment about 3 days ago, but after watching Shiz and Mang0 play Falco and Mang0 and Hungrybox play Jiggs I think that they both belong in the top tier. You can say that they are both definitely below the top 3, and that's fine, but they are not worse by a wide enough margin to merit their own tier. I think Falco and Jiggs are both perfectly awesome and capable of winning at the highest level of play and think they are essentially tied for the 4th spot. Though, the more I think about it, the more I wonder if we all just hate Jiggs too much to even consider that she's in the same league as the top 3...
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I think I agree with that, actually.

Mogwai said:
Peach is hardly a no brainer. I think arguments can be made for CF being over her, but ultimately, I think they are roughly at the same level and their ordering on the list is as irrelevant as Jiggs/Falco's ordering. Ganon is not better than Falcon by any stretch of the imagination. Kage's a beast, but Ganon is a hugely limited character and just as you can't put ICs above Falcon and Peach on the back of just Chu, you can't put Ganon above Falcon on the back of just Kage. DK is much more limited than you think and it's not even debatable that he should be above ICs IMO. ICs Ganon is a tough ordering, but ultimately I just think ICs are better, hard to explain why.
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I didn't intend to put that statement just on Kage. I think it's a general statement and not because of how good he is, but because of how he uses Ganon that watching his matches can back this up. However, I would rather ask him or any other Ganon mains about that, because they know a lot more than I do.

Mogwai said:
DK is probably in this tier (he appears twice in your list) under Samus. Your analysis of Samus is just wrong. She's not as gimpable as you seem to thing and LMAO at "Her priority is awful," I guess you haven't seen her nair... Samus DK are pretty close, but the fact that Samus doesn't have to approach with only 2 options (she doesn't have to approach at all in many matchups) makes her better IMO. I think the Link Mario Luigi analysis here is also just uninformed drivel that's not worth talking about.
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Uninformed and largely ignorant, I would say. However, I think that Link's priority, ability to control space, and combo ability (it's not great, but it's there) really help him out. His tech chasing is valid because of his hookshot, and his aerials are strong and often combo well. Not only that, but he has a lot of finishers, so I don't think he's as bad as people think they are.

Anyway, Samus has a good nair yes, but that's like one useful/fast move that you've listed. Anyway, let's think. Fox's Bair or shine (depending on positioning) ***** her recovery. Marth's Bair/Fair also **** her recovery. Sheik's Bair does as well, and her needles are surprisingly effective at screwing the Samus up. Falco's lasers make recovery difficult by reseting her positioning and often making it so that she is just too far away from the bomb to land the bomb jump. Jiggs can jump out and make use of her aerials far more than Samus is able to do while bomb jumping. Falcon and Ganon can both space Bair to get her off. Peach has turnips + aerials. The point it, Samus often has to focus on bomb jumping and can't spend much time using aerials, or else she will end up leaving herself open and falling lower than she wants to, and most good characters can take advantage of this fairly easily. Finally, when you said that she doesn't have to approach in most matchups, I think it's true in the cases that the characters she's shooting at can't slash through her projectiles, but it's not like her defensive options - once the characters gets in close - are that amazing anyway. Her grabs are really slow, and while she can punish with CC alright, it's not something anyone good is gonna fall for over and over again.

Binx said:
@ Sheik, Fox, Marth - Marth Sheik Fox - maybe but I'm inclined to go with the tier list since all three are beast.
@Falco Puff - they both belong in top tier they are slightly worse than the top 3 but not by enough to be taken down, good Falcos do fine against all top 3 characters.
@High tier - Peach/Falcon, ICs, Ganon, I think ganon is better than samus so he should be higher, but I dunno, maybe its just cause I've never seen a samus really do much of anything, not that I haven't had my share of beatings by aftermath.

@the rest - your just wrong. Also Samus is very very difficult to gimp, she has some recovery options you probably just don't see. Unpredictable bomb jumps with a grapple and a pretty chill up b, she can vary her recovery by a lot and get back from incredible distances, there was a time when people thought she might have the best recovery in this game, so.... yeah.
Click to expand...
Well, times change...you know that already. I mentioned ways that people gimp Samus' recover earlier. Anyway, do you know how hard it is for ICs to get grabs? I mean, once you get one, you can make good use of it with desync combos, but their ability to approach in general is not that great, so grabbing against smart players won't work too well. Besides, Nana is so easy to gimp, and Popo is basically a low tier when he's alone.


PS. Thanks for the discussion. I hope this keeps up.
 
Stos

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combos work because of bad DI,technical failure(missed tech and such) or you just got predicted.

dont get me wrong there are combos that is like going to connect no matter what.

although ken combos/drop zones could be simply avoided by Di'ing up and away or by down and away.

you can argue that these combos only works low percent but it wont kill you.

if it does then quit life.

just kidding.

dont get me wrong though there are combos that you just cant escape no matter what.
 
Mogwai

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Grmo said:
That's not what I said at all, unless I was being lazy like with the rest of the post and just didn't clarify. He's just more limited than the top 3, that's all I meant. Anyway, it's true that he is more limited in comboing than the others. Generally, his shine to dair combos are the bulk of his combos because the rest can be DI'd out of far too easily. However, I'm wrong about approaching; I don't know why I said that.
Click to expand...
So you're saying that the fact that Falco's combos tend to follow a "dair -> shine/utilt, rinse repeat" formula is a limiting factor? How is this relevant? Falco has insane combos that are impossible to DI out of on every character short of Jiggs/Samus/Luigi, and even they can get combo ***** up until a point. The fact that his combos have less variety is hardly relevant when we're talking about how effective a character is. And besides, I'd say that Falco combos are at least as fresh as most of that stale **** that every Marth/Fox/Sheik does.

Grmo said:
I don't think it's terrible. Think about it. Sheik can easily get 60% on Marth simply out of a grab, and depending on positioning, can edgeguard from there fairly easily there too. Marth, however can't punish Sheik nearly that much; her tech roll is a little too big for Marth to tech chase properly. I don't think it makes much sense to deny the fact that Sheik outcombos Marth by a long shot, unless you play with people with bad DI, but I'd have to testify that against whatever combos you have in mind for me to necessarily think that I'm right here.
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I'll let a Marth player field this, but from what I see of watching this matchup, sheik camps, gets short combos of the 30%ish range in, and edgeguards, while marth tries to land a utilt to string fairs/uairs into an Fsmash.

Grmo said:
Also, "Have you ever heard of "positioning advantages" or "spacing" before? Try just "being" above a good Marth and say that he doesn't punish as hard or harder than Sheik." is a far too narrow statement. You're just listing a situation where Marth has the advantage. Besides, of course I'm familiar with these things. Why would you even say that?
Click to expand...
I think that statement was along the same lines as my gripe about your use of punishment.

Grmo said:
You're right about my misuse of punishment. I got lazy with it I think, and just rushed through it. I should have backed it up, just like you should have backed up your statement that Sheik can't 0-death Fox or Marth, which I think it untrue because, in the case of Fox, Sheik tech chases very easily and can rack up a lot of damage doing that and juggling once you get to a higher percent. Edgeguarding Fox is easy as well, and all this can be done out of a grab. As for Marth, while it may not be true that Sheik can 0-death him, it's true that she can get a lot of damage on him from only a grab, no matter how the Marth DI's.
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Sheik's techchase on spacies isn't guaranteed. Fox can do dirty things to sheik off of waveshines. It's really not hard to see why Sheik doesn't have the combo advantage in this matchup. For instance: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AGFfWe03K50&feature=related

Grmo said:
I didn't intend to put that statement just on Kage. I think it's a general statement and not because of how good he is, but because of how he uses Ganon that watching his matches can back this up. However, I would rather ask him or any other Ganon mains about that, because they know a lot more than I do.
Click to expand...
Ganon just seems too limited by his speed or lack thereof. I don't feel that he can generate his own offense well enough to be in the same league as Falcon.

Grmo said:
Uninformed and largely ignorant, I would say. However, I think that Link's priority, ability to control space, and combo ability (it's not great, but it's there) really help him out. His tech chasing is valid because of his hookshot, and his aerials are strong and often combo well. Not only that, but he has a lot of finishers, so I don't think he's as bad as people think they are.
Click to expand...
Mario and Luigi both have far superior combo games than Link. I dunno, again, I'll just sorta lay off this one, but Mario and Luigi both just seem so much better than Link to me.

Grmo said:
Anyway, Samus has a good nair yes, but that's like one useful/fast move that you've listed. Anyway, let's think. Fox's Bair or shine (depending on positioning) ***** her recovery. Marth's Bair/Fair also **** her recovery. Sheik's Bair does as well, and her needles are surprisingly effective at screwing the Samus up. Falco's lasers make recovery difficult by reseting her positioning and often making it so that she is just too far away from the bomb to land the bomb jump. Jiggs can jump out and make use of her aerials far more than Samus is able to do while bomb jumping. Falcon and Ganon can both space Bair to get her off. Peach has turnips + aerials. The point it, Samus often has to focus on bomb jumping and can't spend much time using aerials, or else she will end up leaving herself open and falling lower than she wants to, and most good characters can take advantage of this fairly easily. Finally, when you said that she doesn't have to approach in most matchups, I think it's true in the cases that the characters she's shooting at can't slash through her projectiles, but it's not like her defensive options - once the characters gets in close - are that amazing anyway. Her grabs are really slow, and while she can punish with CC alright, it's not something anyone good is gonna fall for over and over again.
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Watch a HugS match. Any of them. Literally any match where he ends up off stage. I want you to count how many times he bomb jumps and then I want you to come back in here and tell me again how it is that Samus must rely on bomb jumping to recover. And Samus has some of the best defensive options in the game, what are you talking about, lol. WD OOS to ftilt or dsmash or fsmash is insane. Up B out of shield is insane. Crouch Cancel to anything is insane.
 
Laijin

Laijin

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I think the tier list should be based on cuteness.
If thats the case, then it'll be flipped literally upside down(with only jiggs remaining near the top) and Kirby will be #1.
I think it'll look like this:

Top Tier:
Kirby
Pichu
JigglyPuff

High Tier:
Pikachu
Young Link
Peach
Zelda

*Everyone else is below this and does'nt matter.
 
Grmo

Grmo

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Mogwai said:
Watch a HugS match. Any of them. Literally any match where he ends up off stage. I want you to count how many times he bomb jumps and then I want you to come back in here and tell me again how it is that Samus must rely on bomb jumping to recover. And Samus has some of the best defensive options in the game, what are you talking about, lol. WD OOS to ftilt or dsmash or fsmash is insane. Up B out of shield is insane. Crouch Cancel to anything is insane.
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Alright lol. I yeild. Thanks for debating so patiently with me :laugh:
Laijin said:
I think the tier list should be based on cuteness.
If thats the case, then it'll be flipped literally upside down(with only jiggs remaining near the top) and Kirby will be #1.
I think it'll look like this:

Top Tier:
Boozer
Kirby
Pichu
JigglyPuff

High Tier:
Pikachu
Young Link
Peach
Zelda

*Everyone else is below this and does'nt matter.
Click to expand...
fixed lol
 
Grmo

Grmo

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Messages
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Location
Plymouth Rock, eating Thanksgiving dinner
Divinokage said:
Jiggs should be moved up yes? lol.. I mean Hbox, Chexr and mango did sooo good at tournaments. Just look it up. =p
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lol yeah, that's what we've been talking about. Jiggs for top tier?
Laijin said:
wtf is wrong with you guise? Bowser is a giant turtle.
If Bowser deserves a place on top tier.
Then the list should be

Donkey Kong
Bowser
Kirby
Yoshi
Pichu
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hahaha, DK. Bowser can turn in to a shell and roll around though. How cute is that?

EDIT: Alright, after taking in everything everyone else has said, here's my new tier list (a lot of it is the same as the current one):

Top
Sheik
Fox
Marth
Falco
Jigglypuff

High
Peach - I kind of feel like she's been exhausted of possibilities sometimes, but lately there have been some really good Peach performances in tournaments so I'm thinking she's still got some stuff.
Captain Falcon
Ganondorf/Ice Climbers (Which one do you think is better?)

Middle
Samus
Donkey Kong (I dunno if he's better than Doc actually)
Dr. Mario
Luigi
Mario

Low I pretty much agree with everything here and down
Link
Pikachu
Young Link
Roy
Zelda
Game and Watch (his shield is so amazing lol)

Bottom
Ness
Yoshi
Bowser
Mewtwo
Kirby
Pichu

Discuss.
 
philbobjoe

philbobjoe

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Garage Island
Grmo said:
Peach - I kind of feel like she's been exhausted of possibilities sometimes, but lately there have been some really good Peach performances in tournaments so I'm thinking she's still got some stuff.
Click to expand...
She's been exhausted of possibilities for a long time, it's just that those possibilities are so effective.
 
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