Official MBR 2010 NTSC Tier List

[-ShadowPhoenix-]

Zoler please elaborate on how evolution has been proven right.

 

[Mew2King]

double post

 

[leffen]

Christianity or any religion is 100% bull**** and it has caused millions of peoples death (for example, hitler justified the holocaust with doing it in Gods name).

People who believe in Christianity do it because they are A. Raised with it and B. Because they are too ignorant/socially hindered to become a atheist. (most ppl obviously don't know **** about the bible too).

And the bible has some REALLY ****ed up stuff, like this:
Leviticus

Homosexual acts are an abomination to God. 18:22

If a man has sex with another man, kill them both. 20:13

Homosexuals (those "without natural affection") and their supporters (those "that have pleasure in them") are "worthy of death." 1:31-32

and LOL Shadw are you kidding me?
There are medicine that is produced by bacteria that are put through forced evolution

edit: I'm currently laughing my *** off. I cannot believe that people that have full access to the internet haven't took time to Google for 5 minutes so that they realize Christianity is ********.

I know I'm gonna offend a lot of people with this but whatever man.

 

[Mew2King]

It also says the bible never said the earth was 6000 years old - http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20090322163458AACb2if

almost everyone is saying that

and most of my google research in past 10 min has resulted in a similar way.

 

[kevo]

I think people should have the right to believe whatever they want to believe. However, it makes me mad when religion gets in the way of science, or other people's rights. That is all.

edit: also is there seriously a religion discussion in the tier list thread lmao. in before "god don exits"

 

[leffen]

M2K PLEASE dont take Yahoo answers as truth, that is insanely ********.

 

[-ShadowPhoenix-]

Leffen: Christianity, like any other religion, will have its extremists. It is inevitable. This does not make religion bad.

also "forced evolution" involved humans tampering with genetics...

give me an example where man hasnt tampered with it

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Even if evolution hasn't been strictly proven, it is still the most logical theory by far and is commonly accepted by scientists in all fields.

 

[leffen]

http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn14094-bacteria-make-major-evolutionary-shift-in-the-lab.html

No tampering.

Not ignorant huh? Took me 1 second to google and it destroys theories that you base life deciding decisions on.
Tough break.

@M2K
http://www.creationtips.com/earthsage.html

 

[Zoler]

I don't have to do anything here, leffen taking care of everything, thx ;D

Leffen: Christianity, like any other religion, will have its extremists. It is inevitable. This does not make religion bad.

Isn't there something wrong if you have to change the religion to suit you? If you're not following it literally then you're basically making up your own religion lol

Most religions are ********, not just christianity.

 

[leffen]

How I see my conversation with Shadw going:http://imgur.com/RMjm8

 

[kevo]

^ This thread

 

[Aesir]

 

[DanteFox]

Leffen quit being a douche. You're making Europeans look bad.

1. The Bible doesn't say the earth is 6000 years old.

2. The Bible doesn't say the earth is the center of the universe

3. Evolution doesn't contradict Christianity. The two are quite compatible with one another.

4. Hitler was an Atheist and merely used the Catholic church to gain political power.

 

[SUNG475]

MBR 2011 NTSC Tier List

Top Tier
Atheist

Mid Tier
Agnostic

Negligible Tier
Everything else

 

[Strong Badam]

does M2k, still play Roy? I need to talk to that guy

I'll push Roy you guys... Apex..






I hope >.> but im a at least try ^^

OHHHHHHHHHH YES HE DOES
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pf8jpSb5zbw

 

[Aesir]

Leffen quit being a douche. You're making Europeans look bad.

1. The Bible doesn't say the earth is 6000 years old.

2. The Bible doesn't say the earth is the center of the universe

3. Evolution doesn't contradict Christianity. The two are quite compatible with one another.

4. Hitler was an Atheist and merely used the Catholic church to gain political power.

They did a pretty good job by themselves with that Euro thing.

 

[stelzig]

hmm interesting

btw I looked it up, and only 23% of swedens believe in christianity. I am not saying you're biased, but I realize that everyone is a result of the way they were brought up mostly.

You don't think it's a bit fishy that you can only convince children to believe in a religion to begin with?

 

[DanteFox]

You don't think it's a bit fishy that you can only convince children to believe in a religion to begin with?

That's completely false.

NOPE
CHUCK TESTA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LJP1DphOWPs

lol what the heck lololol

 

[Strong Badam]

You don't think it's a bit fishy that you can only convince children to believe in a religion to begin with?

NOPE
CHUCK TESTA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LJP1DphOWPs

 

[stelzig]

I know there are people that convert from one religion to another and the ocasional atheists that will sudden become religious, but it was m2k himself who brought up the whole "the way people were raised" point. And it's not like people in scandinavia are directly taught that this god doesn't exist (at least not in my experience), he's just never really referred much to as a real being. As I remember it, I tended to mistake god and santa claus for the same thing when I was a kid, lol.

 

[DanteFox]

Where people are from has nothing to do with whether or not their beliefs are true, that's the point I was trying to make.

 

[Beat!]

Not all swedish atheists are ignorant.

I promise.

 

[Sangoku]

Cool **** with this great tier list discussion. If it were the 64 board, you would all be banned.

 

[Beat!]

S
Fox
Marth
Falco

A
Sheik
Puff

B
Peach
Captain Falcon
Ice Climbers

C
Doc
Pika
Samus/Ganon
Yoshi
Luigi
Mario


... something like that

 

[SamusPoop]

Leffen how does it help calling the other party stupid when you are the one trying to prove something? Not claiming there is a God, that's a line you should respect till it affects others freedom and well being.

Why is marth above falco? I know it's not based on results or match-ups, so what's your reasoning?

 

[Beat!]

Why is marth above falco? I know it's not based on results or match-ups, so what's your reasoning?

Was this directed at me (since you were talking to leffen at first)?

 

[SamusPoop]

Yes it was, maybe you have a different veiw really worth hearing.

 

[Beat!]

Well, it IS mostly based on match-ups, actually. I think Marth has pretty damn good matchups.

IMO:
Sheik is his only disadvantegous matchup, and by a very slight margin (could be even imo, but no one is going to agree with that and it doesn't really matter if it's even or slight disadvantage)
Fox I'm currently considering an even matchup, which means a lot, since it's one of the most important matchups in the game (considering the amount of Foxes). I guess it could possibly be slightly advantageous for any side, but it's not far from even anyway
Falco is a more or less advantegous matchup (I could be biased since it's one of my better matchups, but I really feel like marth wins it)
Falcon, Puff and Peach are being pretty heavily debated, but IMO he's got an advantage vs all of them (decent one vs Peach, slight one vs Puff and a very slight one vs Falcon)
ICs and the mid tiers are all winning matchups

As for Falco, he's got questionable matchups against pretty much every single high tier except for Falcon. Fox, Marth, Sheik, Puff, Peach and ICs are all matchups that are hardly much better than even (some of them probably are, while some are worse). IMO he slightly loses to both Fox and Marth, goes even with Sheik and Peach, and slightly beats ICs and Puff. He does REALLY well vs Falcon though, and he also convincingly beats everyone mid tier and down .

So to sum it up, Marth does better overall vs the better/more relevant characters, whereas Falco probably has a better matchup spread looking at the entire cast, seeing as he stomps a lot of low tiers that Marth "only" beats convincingly. IMO being better vs the high/top tiers is worth more. Add to that the fact that Marth (again, IMO) wins the head-to-head and does a little better vs Fox, and it's pretty clear to me that Marth is a slightly better character.

As for tournament results... Marth HAS performed well lately. It's true that Falco has been pretty dominant for a while, but Marth's days of complete irrelevance are over. He's been doing well in several tournaments over the past months.

 

[Strife]

S
Fox
Marth
Falco

A
Sheik
Puff

B
Peach
Captain Falcon
Ice Climbers

C
Doc
Pika
Samus/Ganon
Yoshi
Luigi
Mario


... something like that

I don't think I've posted a list yet.

S
Falco
Fox
Shiek
Puff

A
Falcon
Marth
Peach

B
Ice Climbers

C
Doc
Samus
Ganon
Luigi
Pikachu
Mario


With wobbling off you could probably put ICs in c tier, or just move the c tiers up to B. The difference isn't that significant. People will say I'm crazy for putting Falcon so high, but soon enough people will start seeing how dumb the character is.

 

[Veetaak]

Leffen: Christianity, like any other religion, will have its extremists. It is inevitable. This does not make religion bad.

Doesn't it concern you that these horrible actions caused by "extremists" can be justified by their religion? These "moderate" religious people were pretty much non-existent in the earlier years of any religion and what is seen as "extremists" now wouldn't be too unusual back then.

People are changing their beliefs as we learn more about the world but yet they still want to call themselves "christian", "muslim" etc even though they are neglecting tons of beliefs within their religion. It's as if I would call myself a professional fotball player just because I'm kicking a football. I don't know if people do this just because they feel safer when they belong in a group with people who have things in common or if there are some other social issues that might occur if they don't.

For me it comes down to "Is my personal happiness or wishful thinking more important than caring about the universal truth and proloning the existence of mankind" I choose the latter because I think if I don't care about the actual reality but choose to believe in the reality I personally would wish for then it would harm those who didn't and it doesn't work in the short or long run.

 

[Strife]

Doesn't it concern you that these horrible actions caused by "extremists" can be justified by their religion? These "moderate" religious people were pretty much non-existent in the earlier years of any religion and what is seen as "extremists" now wouldn't be too unusual back then.

People are changing their beliefs as we learn more about the world but yet they still want to call themselves "christian", "muslim" etc even though they are neglecting tons of beliefs within their religion. It's as if I would call myself a professional fotball player just because I'm kicking a football. I don't know if people do this just because they feel safer when they belong in a group with people who have things in common or if there are some other social issues that might occur if they don't.

Religious or not, all beliefs become less conservative and more tolerant within in time. That shouldn't be attributed to anything about religion at all

Given all the different denominations and practices amongst Christian churches, it's kinda stupid for anyone to cast such a wide net and say that Christians shouldn't be calling themselves Christians because too many of them don't uphold their beliefs. Because unless you're familiar with what denomination they're associated with you can't know if they're contradicting their beliefs or not(well unless they're murdering people or something). Example some religions are ok with gays,

Moreover just because sometimes you don't or fail to uphold some of the Christian beliefs doesn't invalidate you as being Christian. Faith is a growing a process, it's not as simple as you're making it out to be.

 

[Battlecow]

I'm really resisting the temptation to troll Leffen and the other ignorant atheists here. When I think about how mad I could make him... but no. Tier lists.

@strife--falcon has a couple of really good players trying really hard to rep him. He's had good players trying superhard to rep him for a while. A lot of people play him. Nonetheless, we still haven't seen any super-high-level results, and I've always gathered that he had three MU's that were universally accepted as at least slightly negative (falco, fox, sheik). Neither peach nor Marth has three unquestionably negative matchups; do you think falcon beats falco/fox/sheik or just that peach and marth are overrated, MU-wise?

 

[ShroudedOne]

Peach unquestionably negative MUs: Fox, Falcon, Sheik.

Not quite to the same degree as Falco/Fox is bad for Falcon, but still...

 

[Strong Badam]

also jigglypuff

 

[Strife]

I'm really resisting the temptation to troll Leffen and the other ignorant atheists here. When I think about how mad I could make him... but no. Tier lists.

@strife--falcon has a couple of really good players trying really hard to rep him. He's had good players trying superhard to rep him for a while. A lot of people play him. Nonetheless, we still haven't seen any super-high-level results, and I've always gathered that he had three MU's that were universally accepted as at least slightly negative (falco, fox, sheik). Neither peach nor Marth has three unquestionably negative matchups; do you think falcon beats falco/fox/sheik or just that peach and marth are overrated, MU-wise?

Well we really haven't seen any super-high level results for Peach except Armada. If you take Armada out of the equation then Falcons have been placing consistently higher than peaches over the past 2 years(even winning big tournies like Nice Shot Hugo and SMYM12)

I contest how bad Falcon vs Fox is primarily because the only top Falcon I've ever heard say the match up is so awful is Hax, and I'm convinced his opinion on the match-up is hopelessly biased because he lives in same state as the best Fox main in the country. I was looking up the results of matches between Foxes and Falcons in top brackets and I'm finding that it's mostly even.

As for the match up itself(and Falcon generally) I think people just overlook how amazing Falcon's punishes are, and also because a lot of Falcons mains aren't consistent with it. I love watching S2j because I think he's the first falcon who is getting almost all punishes into knee, I watch him and I find out that something new can lead into knees everyday. I'd bet Spacies still win the match-up(I think Falco's worst for Falcon in this match-up) but not the 75-35 rubbish people have been seeing lately. I think this will become more and more evident with time though.

In today's metagame Shiek vs Falcon just isn't that bad, I remember Hax saying it was 55-45. The thought that Shiek is a hard counter to falcon is outdated, it's the same as Peach being a hard counter to falco.

And I don't think Marth or Peach are overrated just so much as falcon is crazy underrated. And Peach loses to Fox, Shiek, Falcon and Puff, even we accept the matchups as they are now(something I disagree with) it's still worse than Falcon's matchups.

 

[Beat!]

S2J thinks Falcon vs Fox is pretty bad as well.

 

[Landry]

I miss the religious debates...

 

[Beat!]

The last post on the subject was a little more than an hour ago, and you "miss" it?

O_o

 

[Strife]

S2J thinks Falcon vs Fox is pretty bad as well.

Something more like 60-40 right?