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Official MBR 2010 NTSC Tier List

Blistering Speed

Smash Champion
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Dot Dot Dash Dot
bowser as worst?
Considering that YS is consistently bannable under the Bo3 format i.e. the format he should advance no further than in tournament, I don't think this is an unreasonable assertion.

I also think he's most subjectable to zero risk, brain dead camping algorithms of the bottom echelon, but debates on the irrelevantly bad tiers always degenerate into a steaming pile of theorycraft so let's just stop.

My list is surprisingly close to SB's, a couple character switches and tier segregations aside.

S: Falco / Fox.
A: Jigglypuff, Sheik, Marth.
B: Peach, Ice Climbers, Falcon.
C: Doc, Pikachu, Samus, Ganondorf.
D: I generally stop caring.
 

KirbyKaze

Smash Legend
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tl;dr

Special moves pretty much make or break a character's tier. Ness has very bad special moves. His PK thunder should be changed into something more thought/option based
If I had to modify PK Thunder, I would suggest that he shouldn't lag so much after hitting the foe (or make the move capable of being canceled before the projectile hits something; a lot of 'charge' or 'focus' moves should be cancelable IMO, notable examples being Link and Young Link's arrows) and should have boosted priority. Even if this maintains Ness's bad recovery, it gives him a way to work around people that get launched too high for him to follow.

I agree that specials tend to make or break characters but mainly because they offer a tool that provides cohesion or some kind of advantage that the rest of their moveset lacks (since specials break the mold of what an attack can be - the basic attacks tend to resemble each other more closely than specials do). Only real exceptions to this within the top 8 are Marth and Falcon, whose specials are pretty meh.





Regarding the bottom tiers (since all tier lists eventually return to them)...

Kirby and Pichu have the most cohesion among the bottom four. Ness and Bowser have the best moves.

They're all terrible.
 

Kink-Link5

Smash Hero
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Hall of Dreams' Great Mausoleum
BUT WHO IS MORE TERRIBLE KK?

That's what's important, you know.

Not Peach vs Marth regarding all of relevance, advancements in the metagame, proven capabilities of the characters thus far, and threats vs the rest of the cast.

But who is the brownest turd, that matters.
 

KirbyKaze

Smash Legend
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I order them as

Pichu / Ness > Kirby > Bowser

Kirby has the best game vs Sheik and Puff of them, one of the better games vs Peach (maybe the best, not sure), but he's also got no answer to platforms or dash dance as a result of his total lack of everything. His cohesive options are offset by his lack of a real gimmick that circumvents a huge part of gameplay aside from his crouch. I feel that while this should be a better deal in theory, in practice people attack Bowser as opposed to exploiting his awfulness and since Kirby doesn't have a heavy punish, when they misplay on him he's not likely to garner a swing from it in the way that Bowser might. I think this is a terrible reason to rank them as such because I definitely feel that Kirby affords more room for his pilot to be good because of his larger option pool, but Bowser will probably be ranked higher at the end of the day because Chillin fights DJ entirely wrong for 2 matches, wins the set anyway, but last stock must mean Bowser has untapped potential.

Ness moves a lot but he's freaking terrible when you break him down. Pichu has u-throw nair and a dash dance that is somewhat respectable. I feel this is more useful than Ness's better attacks but this is debatable. Lightshielding on the top platform destroys both of them so I can't really argue about macro games and platform camp. Sheik CGs both of them, and neither of them have much business escaping a variety of the top characters' combos. Pichu's weight offsets his great recovery, Ness's recovery is just garbage straight up. Neither have crouch options.

Peach vs Marth rankings are meh. I already posted my thoughts about it. Peach's weak macro game is sucky but she has a really expansive micro game because of her numerous, exploitable, variable options.

I'd rather talk about Sheik and Jigglypuff, or where people feel Doc should be period. Is he high tier or mid? And so forth.
 

Max?

Smash Champion
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Falco Bair
The reality is, if you don't main Falco at this point you're probably wasting your time.


Sheik is better than Jiggs slightly just due to a better matchup spread overall. Doc may be at the bottom of high tier, just depends on how you view the tier list.


Falco/Fox
Sheik/Jiggs
Peach/Marth
Icies/Falcon/Doc
Pika/Ganon/Samus/Luigi

w'e
 

Lovage

Smash Hero
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Apr 15, 2007
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samus sucks

hey smashboards noobs discuss something useful instead of zelda vs. pichu


is samus better, worse, or exactly the same as doc/ganon. yes doc and ganon are the same character, for the purpose of THIS discussion (if anyone partakes.)

i think in 2012 she is WORSE than icies/doc/ganon, but better than mario. i have no idea how good pika is tbh
 

ShroudedOne

Smash Hero
Premium
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Mar 14, 2011
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Samus sort of does things sometimes. Ganon never does anything...Pikachu is a yellow rat.

Doc/ICs are pretty decent.

imo
 
Joined
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Messages
19,345
hey smashboards noobs discuss something useful instead of zelda vs. pichu

is samus better, worse, or exactly the same as doc/ganon. yes doc and ganon are the same character, for the purpose of THIS discussion (if anyone partakes.)

i think in 2012 she is WORSE than icies/doc/ganon, but better than mario. i have no idea how good pika is tbh
I would think that any discussion of something outside of Sheik, Fox, Peach, Marth, Falco, and Jigglypuff to be just as stupid since everyone else sucks. So, ganon vs samus is on the same level as pichu and zelda. Its all for the fun of wasting time. By my fallacies, let Doc < Mario commence.
 

KirbyKaze

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SS - Falco / Fox / Sheik
S - Puff / Marth / Peach
A - Falcon
B - ICs / Doc / Pikachu / Ganon / Samus / Luigi / Mario
C - DK / Link / Roy / Zelda / Young Link / G&W / Yoshi / Mewtwo
D - Pichu / Ness / Kirby / Bowser

Not a complete tier list, and certainly not my cemented opinion. I'm just kind of playing with a new format and groupings to see what it looks like. I'd iron this out before saying it's my opinion right now - these are more like ideas that I'm toying with at the moment. Currently, B and C are the hardest to order right now. I'm toying with the idea that Falcon is a leg above ICs and below. I've got some ideas as to why. ICs might belong with him though. Not sure I fully agree with the notion that he's the sole high tier but it's certainly crossed my mind.

Doc is overrated. I can finally say that with some degree of confidence. But after thinking about him for a while and playing vs the best Doc and careful reflection over his abilities, it's clear that he's been overrated by Shroomed's success. I got sucked into the hype. He's not high tier. Too many things invalidate his strengths because of being stubby plus weak moves and other issues.
 

Armada

Smash Lord
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Mar 28, 2010
Messages
1,366
What is your reasons for Yoshi being so low?
He is seriously the most underrated char in the game.

He has tons of good stuff but he is a very unique char for sure.
Parry is super good and that makes Yoshis deffense so much better then most people think.

He has great movement overall. Better punishgame then every char in C rier (okay maybe not DK but the rest of them).

He has a okay recovery aswell. Not being able to send him away during that second jump is great for him for sure.

DJC is giving him a super good "out then back in" game and he can also use it really good from plattforms cause he is really fast.

Eggs from the edge is also really good (they give much damage too). He has big hitboxes which makes it hard to challange him in many situations.

And yeah the fact he can trade with a arieal or something with DJC and then punish you is also super good.

Im not a expert on Yoshi or anything but I do think he is much better then people think overall.
Maybe Leffen can add some more stuff but I don't have time to do this post any longer.

=)
 

Gea

Smash Master
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Doc is overrated. I can finally say that with some degree of confidence. But after thinking about him for a while and playing vs the best Doc and careful reflection over his abilities, it's clear that he's been overrated by Shroomed's success. I got sucked into the hype. He's not high tier. Too many things invalidate his strengths because of being stubby plus weak moves and other issues.
Finally someone is waking up.
 

Ripple

ᗣᗣᗣᗣ ᗧ·····•·····
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I like how KK said doc is overrated and then procedes to place him in the exact same spot on his tier list as the current one

:phone:
 

Gea

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I like how KK said doc is overrated and then procedes to place him in the exact same spot on his tier list as the current one

:phone:
Well considering people have been talking about Doc either being on par or better than Falcon, I think saying he was/is being overrated is about right. Doc's placement is fine, he pretty much loses to everyone above him barring 1-2 okay MUs and besides 1-2 weird MUs beneath him beats/goes even with just about everyone. People were/are overrating his tools against spacies.

Good character. Has good stuff. Not Falcon good, though.

Edit: I kinda agree with what Lovage posted. Close enough anyways. Think pika has better relevant MUs than ganon though. Also unsure if ICs should be bumped up a tier or not. ICs are weird.
 

odinNJ

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nah man roy is weird as f***, have you ever seen him used.
also G and W has a random side B and a bunch of crazy hitboxes
 

MaskedMarth

Smash Ace
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Jul 16, 2003
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554
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Chicago area
i don't know which is more annoying: people who insist their main is way better than they actually are, or way worse than they actually are.
High tier mains insist their character sucks and low tier mains insist their character's actually really good.

Except in the past couple years where the low tier mains have gotten all whiny.
 

Lovage

Smash Hero
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So why does no one think that rat is overrated? Just curious.
he is overrated

in the exact same manner that KK was just describing doc being overrated

only 1 person if good at the character, therefore it's hard to tell


having said that, i think my tier list is perfect
 

Bones0

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Why do people insist on making an S tier? Why can't we just start at A and go to Z. If you have some absurd god tier character that is banworthy then you can put them in S tier. Otherwise, **** off with that ****. It's super annoying.
 

odinNJ

Smash Lord
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idk, its the standard for game tierlists in general, games like marvel have s tiers.

although i believe mortal combat has G tier as in God tier
 

E-102 Gamma

Smash Journeyman
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Why do people insist on making an S tier? Why can't we just start at A and go to Z. If you have some absurd god tier character that is banworthy then you can put them in S tier. Otherwise, **** off with that ****. It's super annoying.
But Bones, Yoshi and Mewtwo are god tier in weirdness to the point of brokenness. :c
 

Bones0

Smash Legend
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But Bones, Yoshi and Mewtwo are god tier in weirdness to the point of brokenness. :c
Then your list is fine. My post was actually in reaction to seeing KK use not just "S", but also an "SS" tier. Like... seriously? I get enough of that stuff just from reading the names of traditional fighters (Super Mega Ultra Street Fighter 4 Turbo: Arcade Edition) Maybe we should just go balls deep and use these as our tiers:

Triple Platinum - Falco
Double Platinum
Platinum
Gold
Silver
Bronze
Turquoise
SSS
SSS
*SSS*
SSS
SS
S
A - Bowser
 

Lovage

Smash Hero
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I agree w/ bones0, SS tier is way off, i would just start at S tier and work my way down.

S tier
falco fox sheik

A tier
puff etc
 
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