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Official MBR 2010 NTSC Tier List

unknown522

unknown522

Some guy
Joined
Aug 17, 2005
Messages
8,047
Location
Toronto, Ontario
Max? said:
I think she is. Doc vs. Marth pretty close to even.


Every time I read this thread, I'm reminded of why I hate the melee scene
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No way. Doc vs peach is on 55-45. The fact the she doesn't have too much range and is slow really helps. All his basic stuff that work well vs most characters, work really well on peach. She is one of the few good characters where doc can reliably recover reliably against, due to not being able to abuse ledge invincibility, or having the range to keep pushing him off almost guaranteed. She doesn't have a fast move to hit both the pill and him reliably offstage, whereas marth has at least 4 and conveniently work in different positions, and for different percents.

Doc can keep up with peach's damage-racking since her combos are pretty meh against him, but he has just as good, if not better combos vs her. They have similar range (also his d-smash beats hers at max distance, but that probably doesn't matter). He has reliable ways to get down vs her juggling, mostly due to lack of range. He has decent edgeguarding and edgeguard setups, though lacking a good way to cover her recovering high (actually that's the case vs marth too).

Doc can out-camp peach, but also has a decent anti-approach game vs her, whereas marth has a huge sword and can combo/juggle with said huge sword, especially when spacing well. Caping turnips is pretty good for not letting her in, he has a couple of reliable anti-air moves


There's more to add but gotta run

:phone:
 
Marik Ravana

Marik Ravana

Smash Rookie
Joined
Sep 20, 2012
Messages
10
Mahone said:
this new age "trolling", where you have to let everyone know, because you NEED the attention and you need to make sure that no one thinks you're actually stupid... because you don't really care about "trolling", you care about everyone KNOWING that you're "trolling" and therefore KNOWING you are witty and smarter than them
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The poker player who constantly screams the inferiority of his hand reveals only the inferiority of his character.
 
john!

john!

Smash Hero
Joined
Nov 19, 2006
Messages
8,063
Location
The Garden of Earthly Delights
Mahone said:
Wow, what a ***

this is one of the gayest posts ive read in so long

notice the "son" and "doggie", showing how old and wise and cool max is

"everyone's opinion is different and 99% of the time it's wrong" - wow, these wrong opinions, amazing... Of course your falco is broken and unstoppable opinion is just trolling and definitely not wrong or annoying

this new age "trolling", where you have to let everyone know, because you NEED the attention and you need to make sure that no one thinks you're actually stupid... because you don't really care about "trolling", you care about everyone KNOWING that you're "trolling" and therefore KNOWING you are witty and smarter than them

This is a great example of a big fish in a small pond... i'm guessing max is smarter than the average smash player by a pretty significant margin and much better at the game too... and you can tell that he just LOVES that... he gets to act wiser, smarter, and cooler in all of his posts, and then he probably goes on facebook and makes fun of how ******** we all are with niko and pc chris or some ****

CONGRATULATIONS!!! You are better and smarter than a bunch of people who are probably on average like 7 years younger than you in a video game community where the average education level is really not that high

However i can tell from your posts that you are actually not a very smart or wise man at all!

You are just an attention ***** who needs to go back to reddit and needs to stop ruining this website even more!!!!!!!!!

or you can stay and bathe in the filth that you are the biggest contributor to... im sure that irony hasnt got by you, ur too smart for that, you were just "trolling" me as well... well played max!
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quoting this because it's one of the best posts i've ever read on SWF
 
Max?

Max?

Smash Champion
Joined
Mar 4, 2011
Messages
2,255
Location
Falco Bair
Mahone said:
Wow, what a ***

this is one of the gayest posts ive read in so long

notice the "son" and "doggie", showing how old and wise and cool max is

"everyone's opinion is different and 99% of the time it's wrong" - wow, these wrong opinions, amazing... Of course your falco is broken and unstoppable opinion is just trolling and definitely not wrong or annoying

this new age "trolling", where you have to let everyone know, because you NEED the attention and you need to make sure that no one thinks you're actually stupid... because you don't really care about "trolling", you care about everyone KNOWING that you're "trolling" and therefore KNOWING you are witty and smarter than them

This is a great example of a big fish in a small pond... i'm guessing max is smarter than the average smash player by a pretty significant margin and much better at the game too... and you can tell that he just LOVES that... he gets to act wiser, smarter, and cooler in all of his posts, and then he probably goes on facebook and makes fun of how ******** we all are with niko and pc chris or some ****

CONGRATULATIONS!!! You are better and smarter than a bunch of people who are probably on average like 7 years younger than you in a video game community where the average education level is really not that high

However i can tell from your posts that you are actually not a very smart or wise man at all!

You are just an attention ***** who needs to go back to reddit and needs to stop ruining this website even more!!!!!!!!!

or you can stay and bathe in the filth that you are the biggest contributor to... im sure that irony hasnt got by you, ur too smart for that, you were just "trolling" me as well... well played max!
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lmao, Mahone you got way too much time on your hands. Why you mad?
 
DerfMidWest

DerfMidWest

Fresh ******
Joined
Mar 31, 2011
Messages
4,063
Location
Cleveland, OH
Slippi.gg
SOFA#941
I think peach is better than falco in teams...
Pika is also pretty good.

IMO:

SS:
Fox

S:
Puff

A:
Peach
Falcon
Sheik/Falco
Marth
Pika
---
Etc.

Of the lowertiered characters, many of them become more viable in doubles (Pichu, Kirby, Ness, Luigi, etc)

But at the same time a lot of them get worse (boozer and the links)
 
Stylez

Stylez

Smash Cadet
Joined
Mar 24, 2012
Messages
66
Location
Fresno, CA
Kage, you could make the doubles tier list into some sort of grid. It's really the same ranking concept as individual match ups. Seems like it would take forever though. Then you could do teams' match ups. Make it a 4d grid. That would be so epic
 
Ripple

Ripple

ᗣᗣᗣᗣ ᗧ·····•·····
Joined
Sep 4, 2006
Messages
9,633
Marth is not even close to good in doubles. he'd be below samus
 
DerfMidWest

DerfMidWest

Fresh ******
Joined
Mar 31, 2011
Messages
4,063
Location
Cleveland, OH
Slippi.gg
SOFA#941
Stylez said:
Kage, you could make the doubles tier list into some sort of grid. It's really the same ranking concept as individual match ups. Seems like it would take forever though. Then you could do teams' match ups. Make it a 4d grid. That would be so epic
Click to expand...
I agree with the first part, but the second is too much.

But yea, teams could be ranked in a fashion similar to the MU chart
 
RFrizzle

RFrizzle

Smash Ace
Joined
Feb 25, 2012
Messages
637
Location
Eastern KS yo
I think Falco can handle a 2v1 alright, as well as Puff (Don't see enough puff in teams to make a judgement really) but not near the level Fox can.
 
Mahone

Mahone

Smash Champion
Joined
Apr 19, 2010
Messages
2,940
Location
Blacksburg, VA
Kink-Link5 said:
"to give proof or evidence of; manifest"

Seems pretty fair use of the word to me.

"Having" was missing from my sentence, though, granted.
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oh ok, i wasnt trying to be condescending or anything, i just reread it and was still confused lol

but, to answer your question... no

having a one frame invul GET THE **** OFF ME move is too strong in 2 v 1s....

i guess that means in theory falco should be doing alright as well, but it doesnt feel that way... someone smarter than me can explain that one
 
J

Jayk

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Sep 18, 2012
Messages
124
I think Peach is pretty good 2v1.

A successful D-Smash can seperate your opponents and if you can convert that into a kill by edgeguarding, you can easily be back into 1v1.

Bair is pretty strong too, can hit both opponents, and Peach's powerful moves mean that if you can get one hit, you can buy yourself some breathing space.
 
Fortress | Sveet

Fortress | Sveet

▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀
Joined
Dec 21, 2005
Messages
16,256
Location
Northern IL
Spacies are considerably better than everyone else in a 1v2. Then sheik IMO. Pikachu would actually be pretty high, due to his gimp/edge game as well as mobility and what not. Mobility and ability to safely/quickly cover yourself is probably the most necessary traits.
 
Mahone

Mahone

Smash Champion
Joined
Apr 19, 2010
Messages
2,940
Location
Blacksburg, VA
I think 2v1 is a little vague though...

like, 2v1 during a match really quickly in the corner while ur teammate is on the other side of the stage ("quick")... and 2v1 when your teammate is dead ("long") are different skills

For example, jiggs in a "quick" 2v1 is pretty bad, you just get tossed around and eat 40 and you cant just rest or do some quick move to get people off you... but once its 2v1 and you just sorta space around and bait at the ledge, you can do really well. Even though this is largely due to people being to impatient and not willing to projectile camp and force approaches, i still think shes decent at a "long" 2v1 unless its a team with very effective projectiles

On the other end is falco... i think he can do decent in a "quick" 2v1 because of shine, although i might be oversimplifying...

but i really don't think hes that great at "long" 2v1s, he just gets hit off stage too easy and you can just cover his recovery options with 2 people, and when he jumps up to do his vertical combos, you can get under him, breaking up the combo and now juggling him in a 2v1 situation, things like that stop him from being as powerful as he is in singles

also... there are things like in a "quick" 2v1 marth can actually just counter and it can do surprisingly well, there are tons of gimmics like that which will be much less effective in "long" 2v1s where there is no pressure on the 2 people
 
Doser

Doser

Smash Ace
Joined
Nov 23, 2010
Messages
572
Location
Lincoln Nebraska
I'd also add that an important trait is quickly taking stocks with minimal set up. Prolonged combos won't work, and a battle of attrition won't either.
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
i think sheik, peach, and doc are the best at 2 vs 1. they have quick moves with good priority that let them engage opponents in a pinch without getting death grabbed. when you're fox or falco against 2 opponents, every grab is a death grab if they feel like grab releasing you to death. the truth is that the wombo combo never really needed to happen because that fox was already dead.
 
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