Official Brawl Tier Discussion (OP Updated)

[Genetic]

I find that DK is always a very good top tier character. Like, in Melee, DK was awesome for taking out Fox. And now, he's pretty good vs. MK and Snake... I think he deserves his own tier!!!

 

[OverLade]

I find that DK is always a very good top tier character. Like, in Melee, DK was awesome for taking out Fox. And now, he's pretty good vs. MK and Snake... I think he deserves his own tier!!!

No. DK is mid or high tier. Too easy to **** with certain characters. DEFINETLY not top.

 

[Justblaze647]

Since MK is obviously the most broken character in the game, who is his worst match-up?

 

[ShadowLink84]

He doesn't have any.

 

[Negative_Two]

[ ] = debatable

Top: Meta Knight, Snake

I believe Mk > Snake is general consensus now

High: G&W, DDD, Falco, Marth, R.O.B.

yep.

Upper Mid: Wario [Lucario, Donkey] [Olimar, Pikachu, Diddy, Toon Link, Zelda/Shiek] Pit

Wario is down here because I think the release grab is too much of a problem. I put Zelda/Shiek as one character because using half a character isn't the smartest thing (unless you don't like getting hit while transforming)

Lower Mid: Ice Climbers [Fox, Kirby] [Wolf, ZSS, Luigi] Ness, Ike, Peach

The middle tier was too long, so I cut it.... Wolf not as high as people might expect because there I personally don't see any potential in him.

Low: Bowser [Lucas Mario] Samus [PT, Yoshi]

Put yoshi in low to prevent yoshi mainers from attacking me. lol j/k

Bottom:[Jiggs, Link, Ganondorf] Falcon, Sandbag

The rest of the cast. If you disagree, I'd be glad to hear your reasoning

Spoiler

unless its about falcon

Edit: Jump_man convinced me Falcon > Sandbag lol

 

[Jump_Man]

I'm fairly positive that sandbag isn't playable, and even if he is....well he's unplayable. No tourney rankings, no real "moves," not much potential, lack of a strong killing move. Falcon is a bit better imo

 

[DanGR]

[ ] = debatable
Upper Mid: Wario [Lucario, Donkey] [Olimar, Pikachu, Diddy, Toon Link, Zelda/Shiek] Pit

Wario is down here because I think the release grab is too much of a problem. I put Zelda/Shiek as one character because using half a character isn't the smartest thing (unless you don't like getting hit while transforming)

What about Olimar is debatable? I'm just wondering. Sure, he doesn't have the tourney placings to prove his worth, but I think he's within your "sacred seven" in high tier about where rob is. He's just as good, but not nearly as popular or easy to use.

 

[Negative_Two]

What about Olimar is debatable? I'm just wondering. Sure, he doesn't have the tourney placings to prove his worth, but I think he's within your "sacred seven" in high tier about where rob is. He's just as good, but not nearly as popular or easy to use.

I wasn't confident about some of the characters I assigned to that tier, so I placed the characters in the positions I believed they should be in and put the [ ]'s where, say, a diddy mainer, could argue that diddy is above pika.

 

[DanGR]

I understand. I just wanted to know why you personally put him there. No biggie.

 

[popsofctown]

DanGR, i don't think he was saying Olimar's position in high tier is debatable, he's saying, his position within the bracketed area is debatable. Like, maybe Diddy is better than Olimar. Which he is.

Anyway, a really good tier list. I'm probably just easily pleased because you put my main high (perhaps a tad too high), but meh, then i'm easily pleased.

I like even more that you clearly don't have tons of firsthand knowledge about Z/S, but recognize the potential. You said the only reason to stay as Sheik or stay as Zelda is because you don't like getting hit during transform. The way 99% of us Z/S players play Z/S is that we knock someone off stage, dash to the other side, and transform. We never take damage, instead work to make an opening for transform by knocking the opponent off. Well, not saying we never accidentally take damage, but no one ever selects one-only because they don't want to take transform damage, it's because they don't want to create the openings or don't like the other character. Savvy? [was really trying hard to be informative and not condescending]

 

[Metro Knight]

MK is not that easy to use. In fact he's a bit tricky. Personally I think Sheik is easier to use.

LOL LOL LOL, Try playing him in about 100 matches than say that. He is way easier to play at high levels than any other character. Like, comparing him and Snake would be a joke, Metaknight has maybe... 3 moves that are... even slightly challenging to use? Like, once you begin gliding right, being able to turn around the shuttle loop, and learn to not use his down B, you are pretty much set. Everything else is just basic. Use dmg moves until dsmash and GG. I am not saying I could beat anyone with MK, but if we had to compare the amount of matches it took me to get at the competitive level with him, I bet you it will be way less than most characters. I mean, Sheik requires that you turn into Zelda every once in a while, and you have to learn some wacky tilt comboes, spacing, etc. The transition from Melee to Brawl is probably harder than just picking up Metaknight. Sheik got so nerfed...

 

[noobslayer]

If you disagree, I'd be glad to hear your reasoning

Ganondorf for top tier.
-Super Lightning Spikes
-Sparta Kick
-Stylish Good Looks
-Electro-Hump Up-B

 

[Kiwikomix]

Ganondorf for top tier.
-Super Lightning Spikes
-Sparta Kick
-Stylish Good Looks
-Electro-Hump Up-B

Not to mention...
Ganon-Stomp
"Old Ganon" Looks Like Jesus Himself
All-Around Bad***

 

[Frown]

What is exactly? I fail to see the humor.

You use irony, and say that Sonic is bottom tier. That's funny.

 

[ShadowLink84]

Can't see how its funny considering that Sonic isn't bottom tier. =/

 

[Shy Guy 86]

I don't know why the hell people put Toon Link above characters like Kirby, Wolf, Pikachu and ZSS which are clearly better than him, IMO I'd put him in Lower Mid or the top of Low, even Jiggs has better tourney results, Pikachu actually proved himself that he can be high tier for countering Snake and getting good tourney results.

 

[Xeze]

we should keep in mind that the good tourney results are owed to the players not ONLY to the characters. Toon Link is a good character, he is at least middle.

 

[Mmac]

Shy Guy, Jigglypuff only has good tournament results because one person had the balls to use her in a tournament with hundreds of people with a 20$ entrance fee.

Plus her ranking is going to expire in 2 days anyways, pushing her back to unranked

 

[Frown]

Can't see how its funny considering that Sonic isn't bottom tier. =/

No, but almost.

It's easier for a mouse to kill an elephant than for Sonic to kill Snake.

 

[Griffard]

No, but almost.

It's easier for a mouse to kill an elephant than for Sonic to kill Snake.

I honestly had less respect for sonic than you do now before I played a good one. Now i'm quite certain that they're at low mid. Seriously go play one

 

[Frown]

I honestly had less respect for sonic than you do now before I played a good one. Now i'm quite certain that they're at low mid. Seriously go play one

No, no, no.

Get this.

A mouse with the plague bites an elephant. The elephant dies. The mouse has just one-hit KO'd an elephant.

I've never seen the same thin with Sonic and Snake.

 

[ShadowLink84]

No, but almost.

It's easier for a mouse to kill an elephant than for Sonic to kill Snake.

Which is why he is beating Luigi and yoshi in terms of tournament ranking right?

Its easier to remain ignorant than to open your eyes to truth.

Bottom tier he is far from it.

let alone that ONE matchup does not dictate how good a character is. Last I saw , yoshi and Luigi didn't fare very well against Snake either. I guess they must be bottom tier as well under your argument yes?

in anycase bottom tier he isn't. he performs far too well to be with Falcon and ganondonrf, and his tournament rankings agree that he isn't among the top ten worst.

 

[Kiwikomix]

Yoshi doesn't do THAT badly against Snake, but I think Sonic's higher than him anyway.

 

[Frown]

Ok, listen. You were being ironic, and while you were being ironic, you said that Sonic was bottom tier, and I assumed that you, therefore, thinks Sonic is top tier.

Sonic is not top tier. I hope you admit it.

 

[Vect0r]

Tiers are stupid. Everybody decides for themselves who is best.

 

[ShadowLink84]

Ok, listen. You were being ironic, and while you were being ironic, you said that Sonic was bottom tier, and I assumed that you, therefore, thinks Sonic is top tier.

Sonic is not top tier. I hope you admit it.

Assumptions make you look like an ***. Don't make them please.

Just for giggles....

SNOIC IZ TP TIERZ!!11!11!ONE

 

[Vect0r]

Sonic isn't top tier because his attacks are weak. That's all.

But who am I to criticize your main?

 

[ROOOOY!]

Sonic isn't top tier because his attacks are weak. That's all.

But who am I to criticize your main?

You'd be like everyone else who makes wild assumptions because they play one **** Sonic who can't do anything.
Well done on not doing that though (:

 

[ShadowLink84]

Sonic isn't top tier because his attacks are weak. That's all.

But who am I to criticize your main?

U R SOI WRUNG! SNOIC IS TP TIER! HE CNT B HT AND HE IZ RLY RLY FST! EVRY1 IZ 2 SLW!


ROFLOLLMAO U JST A NUB WHT U NO!? LOLOLOLOLOLLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL/


To be serious though most likely Sonic is going to be lower mid tier. He has does very well against bottom and low tier characters and really only starts to encounter issues with those in upper mid and up.

You also have his tournament ranking spot which has been improving but hasn't really gone beyond that expected of a lower mid tier character nor is he exactly jumping ranks like Sheik has done recently.

Edit: the reason I say lower mid is because Sonic is at the top of the D rank (Ike beats him by 3 points) so it isn't stretching much to say he is possible lower mid. Either way not bottom tier.

 

[Dynamism?]

Which is why he is beating Luigi and yoshi in terms of tournament ranking right?

Its easier to remain ignorant than to open your eyes to truth.

Bottom tier he is far from it.

let alone that ONE matchup does not dictate how good a character is. Last I saw , yoshi and Luigi didn't fare very well against Snake either. I guess they must be bottom tier as well under your argument yes?

in anycase bottom tier he isn't. he performs far too well to be with Falcon and ganondonrf, and his tournament rankings agree that he isn't among the top ten worst.

tournament ranking? Not recently. If you include tourneys from March then yes but things have changed over the months. And tourneys mean very little right now.

Sonic does well against Snake. It's actually a good match up.
So do Yoshi and Luigi! Luigi is one of the best for taking out a Snake.

Sonic isn't bottom, he's just not that bad or good.


Shy Guy: Pikachu is a candidat for top, so is Toon Link. They both could potentially join Snake and MK in the future. That's how good they are. 30 good players use Snake and get 1st everywhere, 1 good player uses Pika and 1 good player uses Tlink and those 2 beat those 30 Snakes.

See what's going on there? That's what has happened over the summer. And things are shifting again.


However, Kirby isn't solid all around like TLink, but still good. Zamus has similar flaws to Kirby but they can hide these flaws. TLink simply doesn't have any.

 

[Morrigan]

Tiers are stupid. Everybody decides for themselves who is best.

Sonic isn't top tier because his attacks are weak. That's all.

loooooolll

 

[BrawlerHarrison]

I don't really believe in Ties but...

This is probably been discussed before but Tl should really move up a bit.
Projectiles,no disadvanteges etc.

 

[Gindler]

Last I saw , yoshi and Luigi didn't fare very well against Snake either. I guess they must be bottom tier as well under your argument yes?

Yoshi actually does pretty decent. But yeah, Luigi doesn't because once he's launched in the air snake can just walk under him for more Utilts, stupid no aerial speed Luigi.

And yeah, TLs a really good character. I just think his spike sucks because one airdodge=suicide...

 

[PrinceMarthX]

Everyone puts too much stock into tournament rankings. I think the only thing the tournaments tell us is that Snake and Meta Knight are above everyone else. I think you should focus more on character's potential (KO percentages, range, recovery, ground game, air game, priority, speed) to determine the rest of the tiers. Just because one person plays a specific character well and wins doesn't necessarily mean the character is anything special, it could be that he's just really good.

 

[ShadowLink84]

tournament ranking? Not recently. If you include tourneys from March then yes but things have changed over the months. And tourneys mean very little right now.

Tourneys mean alot right now. If it were that brawl was completely and utterly different like from 64 to melee I would agree, however considering Sonic is one of the many severely underplayed characters for Sonic to be 21 when there are characters who are supposed to be better than him doing worse means he does have potential.

And no I am not including march I am referencing to only recentky where his ranking is 21. I think he did worse in the spring season in terms of ranking.

Sonic does well against Snake. It's actually a good match up.

I have to disagree. Snake still has an advantge because his moves are similar to marth. When Sonic approaches its somewhat risky and if he fails he is forced to start over from the beginning.

yeah once Snake is in the air he is Sonic's ***** but snake's ground game is very strong. Its similar to playing Olimar except there is no way of depriving Snake of his weapons.

So do Yoshi and Luigi! Luigi is one of the best for taking out a Snake.[/quote
Luigi?
No. he has no approach method for Snake and each character that has been capable of harassing snake were either capable of camping snake (olimar) or approaching him very well (Falco).

Luigi has neither.

Sonic isn't bottom, he's just not that bad or good.

We agree then.

Shy Guy: Pikachu is a candidat for top, so is Toon Link. They both could potentially join Snake and MK in the future. That's how good they are. 30 good players use Snake and get 1st everywhere, 1 good player uses Pika and 1 good player uses Tlink and those 2 beat those 30 Snakes. [/quote[
maybe tis cause those 30 snakes never faced TL and Pikachu. Its not like the pikachu user and TL user ran into that many Snakes in their matchups. let alone the fac tthat most snakes are not very good.

They aren't candidates for top because if you look at MK and Snake, they dont have the tournament ranking nor the gameplay for top tier. they are probably high tier though.

 

[Mmac]

Doesn't Toon Link's Dtilt spike?

 

[Gindler]

Hmmm, I'm pretty sure Link's does so I'd think TL's would. But TLs sword is so small I've never actually been spiked by it.

 

[ShadowLink84]

TL's does not spike anymore.

link's does during the later part of the animation

 

[Tenki]

You use irony, and say that Sonic is bottom tier. That's funny.

Ok, listen. You were being ironic, and while you were being ironic, you said that Sonic was bottom tier, and I assumed that you, therefore, thinks Sonic is top tier.

Sonic is not top tier. I hope you admit it.

SARCASM, not irony. nao. u funylulz. You piss me off.

No Sonic main afaik thinks Sonic is anywhere near top tier.

tournament ranking? Not recently. If you include tourneys from March then yes but things have changed over the months. And tourneys mean very little right now.

This was done in Houston, Tx, At planet zero. Entry fee was 10$. July 26th 2008


1: T-rex (Snake)
2: Dr Mario Kart (metaknight)
3: Mr.3000 (sonic)

well i got 2nd out of 20 @ Metal awesome 5!

haha july 26th

http://www.allisbrawl.com/ttournament.aspx?id=1727

I went to this tournament yesterday, took 4th out of 14. Used Sonic the entire time.

Beat a Lucario, lost to a G&W, beat another Sonic, beat a wario/MK user, beat a MK user, in three grueling matches lost to BO X7's Mario... best mario I've ever played. The game and watch and mario user who beat me moved on to take 1st and 2nd. MachingunNorm was probably the only well known player there in our area who took 3rd also losing to BO X7's Mario.

While the tournament was small... it was no walk in the park for my Sonic and I used Sonic the whole way through.

edit:
PS, you may disregard the wall of quotes.

I thought you were implying that Sonic hasn't won tournaments since March.

 

[i.E.]

TL's does not spike anymore.

link's does during the later part of the animation

Yea, Link's Dtilt spike doesn't seem as useful though, because a lot of the time it seems to hit your opponent up, as opposed to spiking (which is probably because I'm 100 percent not spacing it right).

Sasook found that if you face backwards from the ledge and use Link's Dtilt though, the part of the attack that actually spikes (inside links body) hits no matter what, so it spikes. Sounds easier, but I haven't tried it yet.