Official Brawl Tier Discussion (OP Updated)

[Tien2500]

I think someone mentioned this but Squirtle and Zamus have the quickest jabs in the game.

 

[Gindler]

Also Lucas' jabs come out in 1 frame along with squirtle and ZSS. Just thought I'd throw that out there. And yeah Luigi's fireball is a really bad projectile. not nearly as good as mario's...

 

[Shy Guy 86]

Who is the best Projectile Spammer, I think its a tie Between Falco, ROB and Snake.... but I'm towards falco since his lasers are faster than the grenades and ROB needs to recharge his....

 

[Save the Asians]

How do you guys count frames? Whenever I hear about them, they seem to be like freak'n milliseconds or something. A pm could work to get back at me =P.

 

[i.E.]

I asked earlier, but there was a heated luigi/wario debate going on.

But has link moved up at all? Since the games release he's become a lot more technical, and can put on damage really quick.

Just curious as to what people think about him now, as opposed to closer to the game's release.

 

[onski?]

iono but..

I asked earlier, but there was a heated luigi/wario debate going on.

But has link moved up at all? Since the games release he's become a lot more technical, and can put on damage really quick.

Just curious as to what people think about him now, as opposed to closer to the game's release.

his speed is probably a deterring factor when trying to place him in a high tier spot.

 

[Grunt]

Who is the best Projectile Spammer, I think its a tie Between Falco, ROB and Snake.... but I'm towards falco since his lasers are faster than the grenades and ROB needs to recharge his....

Yeah, but you can recharge it with your top.
:\

 

[Browny]

how could anyone beat TL for projectile spamming? he can throw 3 different things at you in one jump lol

 

[Talvi]

Falco con throw a bunch lasers each jump. You don't need to have like 10 projectiles if you can only throw one at a time.

 

[Xeze]

I think Falco can shoot up to 3 laser shots in a short hop. He's a good projectile spammer. But there are others. On close range (but not too close) Mario's fireballs can be spammable and since they are affected by gravity they usually hit the opponent (unless he keeps jumping). Yoshi can also use his eggs from a safe distance. Then we have Link and Toon Link with their arrows and don't forget Zelda's Din's Fire.

 

[Ace55]

Wario's f-smash is considerably slower but has super before the hitbox comes out.

As far as I know the Fsmash has about 1 frame of super armor. And like you say, it comes out before the hitbox comes out, which is only a few frames (at most) later.

Seriously, Wario Fsmash is freaking fast.

 

[DanGR]

how could anyone beat TL for projectile spamming? he can throw 3 different things at you in one jump lol

Pikmin throw is better at camping.

 

[goodkid]

Pikmin throw is better at camping.

I have no clue if its better, but they always clink with a ton on projectiles.

 

[DanGR]

I have no clue if its better, but they always clink with a ton on projectiles.

It clinks with every projectile except Rob's laser, and... somethin else I forgot. It's also much faster than TL and Falco's laser spam. Fox' may be faster than the pikmin, but doesn't pose as nearly as much of a threat.

Edit: I don't think it clinks with DDD's waddles. I'm not sure, I usually don't give him a chance too. I'm also sure that it doesn't clink with Din's fire, Kirby's sword(upb), and Snake's nikita. It'll push the nikita up a little, if I remember correctly.

Olimar outcamps everyone except maybe Rob b/c of the lasers only. If Olimar gets close, but far enough out of Rob's ftilt range, the pikmin will come out a lot faster than the lasers and gyros.

 

[Snail]

It clinks with every projectile except Rob's laser, and... somethin else I forgot. It's also much faster than TL and Falco's laser spam. Fox' may be faster than the pikmin, but doesn't pose as nearly as much of a threat.

Edit: I don't think it clinks with DDD's waddles. I'm not sure, I usually don't give him a chance too. I'm also sure that it doesn't clink with Din's fire, Kirby's sword(upb), and Snake's nikita. It'll push the nikita up a little, if I remember correctly.

Olimar outcamps everyone except maybe Rob b/c of the lasers only. If Olimar gets close, but far enough out of Rob's ftilt range, the pikmin will come out a lot faster than the lasers and gyros.

Everyone except ROB. And Falco >__<

 

[Nitrix]

People are nominating Falco for best projectiles? lol. Falco's projectiles are decent, but he has nothing on TL, ROB and Snake.

...when he's doing even worse than Diddy Kong and Donkey Kong?

Are you really trying to use tourny results as a base for your opinion? SSBB hasn't nearly been out long enough for tourny results to be relevent.

 

[ShadowLink84]

People are nominating Falco for best projectiles? lol. Falco's projectiles are decent, but he has nothing on TL, ROB and Snake.

Falco's lasers break everything it comes into contact that does not have invincibility frames. It cannot be thrown back, clanked.

it can lead into gatling canceled Dash attack~usmash
grabs, reflector, Ftilt, Dsmash, utilt , Usmash it is extremely versatile.

Are you really trying to use tourny results as a base for your opinion? SSBB hasn't nearly been out long enough for tourny results to be relevent.

Then I suppose every single tier list here is completely and utterly wrong.
Snake and MK are not top tier.
Sonic should be bottom tier.
Yoshi is top tier.
Olimar is bottom tier.

Tourney results are relevant despite it being early. It isn't too early because many melee vets play brawl and due to experience from melee, acknowledge the possibilities as well as the capabilities.

It isn't impossible for it to be too early but there just isn't as much of a case for it being too early than it being otherwise.

 

[Frown]

Falco's lasers break everything it comes into contact that does not have invincibility frames. It cannot be thrown back, clanked.

it can lead into gatling canceled Dash attack~usmash
grabs, reflector, Ftilt, Dsmash, utilt , Usmash it is extremely versatile.





Then I suppose every single tier list here is complettely and utterly wrong.
Snake and KM are not top tier.
Sonic should be bottom tier.
Yoshi is top tier.
Olimar is bottom tier.

Tourney results are relevant despite it being early. It isn't too early because many melee vets play brawl and due to experience from melee, acknowledge the possibilities as well as the capabilities.

It isn't impossible for it to be too early but there just isn't as much of a case for it being too early than it being otherwise.

This is too funny.

 

[ShadowLink84]

What is exactly? I fail to see the humor.

 

[Xeze]

Tourney results are relevant despite it being early. It isn't too early because many melee vets play brawl and due to experience from melee, acknowledge the possibilities as well as the capabilities.

but it's still too early to say, for example, that MK is top tier. There were not enough tournaments to assume that. Besides, MK is light, lacks a projectile, has a slow air speed (unless he glides), all special moves leave him helpless and doesn't lose much height when he crouches. So I don't think he's going to make it to the top, IMO.

 

[exidid]

Go to Youtube and see some videos of Lucky playing as Sonic. You will see that Sonic is NOT bottom tier.

Read the whole post. He was being hypothetical.

EDIT: Oh you edited. NVM then.

 

[ROOOOY!]

Uhh..he knows.
It's called sarcasm.
And why not base it on tournament results. The games been out for half a year almost, that's quite a while. What else would you use?

Spoiler

LuCKy sucks btw ^_^

 

[Tenki]

--------this was edited already by the time i posted lol

Go to Youtube and see some videos of Lucky playing as Sonic. You will see that Sonic is NOT bottom tier.

lol LuCky doesn't play Brawl anymore. His style was good, he was accurate and could read moves pretty well, but he still didn't reflect all of what Sonic can do. Sometimes people bring him up again in the Sonic boards, but most of us there are just like "yeah, LuCky was good."
------------------------------------------------------

Also, you guys are misreading this post lol.

Are you really trying to use tourny results as a base for your opinion? SSBB hasn't nearly been out long enough for tourny results to be relevent.

Then I suppose every single tier list here is completely and utterly wrong.
Snake and MK are not top tier.
Sonic should be bottom tier.
Yoshi is top tier.
Olimar is bottom tier.

Tourney results are relevant despite it being early. It isn't too early because many melee vets play brawl and due to experience from melee, acknowledge the possibilities as well as the capabilities.

It is kinda funny to take just SL's post standalone since he's known to be the one to argue against Sonic being bottom tier, lol.

 

[Xeze]

Read the whole post. He was being hypothetical.

EDIT: Oh you edited. NVM then.

yeah, I first thought he was serious but then I realized that he was beeing sarcastic.

 

[ShadowLink84]

but it's still too early to say, for example, that MK is top tier. There were not enough tournaments to assume that. Besides, MK is light, lacks a projectile, has a slow air speed (unless he glides), all special moves leave him helpless and doesn't lose much height when he crouches. So I don't think he's going to make it to the top, IMO.

No for MK no.
he is like Sheik in melee. Everyone knew sheik was top tier despite it being early.

He has 800+ points tournament wise, he IS top tier material


@Tenki: its cause I am less tolerant than you =p

 

[The Real Inferno]

.....did somebody just suggest Metaknight won't be top tier?

 

[FishkeeperTimmay!]

.....did somebody just suggest Metaknight won't be top tier?

Yes, he did.

RAAAAAAAGGGGGEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!

His arguments were terrible too. Almost all of Metaknights weaknesses are easily avoided through smart play.

His crouching comment was easily the worst argument ever.

 

[Jigglypoof]

I was bored so I made my own little Tier List, it's based off Tournament Listings, Other Tier Lists I pulled up, and my cousin's and I's experience. Nothing great, still needs work, but, whatever.

I'll give some reasonings for certain placements.


Top:
Mr. Game And Watch - His aerials hurt, he requires almost no skill, and can kill way too easily.
Meta Knight
Snake
Marth

Very High:
Donkey Kong - He's been doing very well in tournaments, which moves him up here.
R.O.B - Doing horrible in tournaments compared to other Very High Tier characters.
Wario
Falco
King Dedede
Lucario
Olimar
Pit - Doing almost as well as R.O.B, so I moved him up here.

High Tier:
Pikachu
Wolf
Kirby
Zelda
Lucas
Toon Link

Middle:
Diddy Kong - I'm still debating his Tier Placement. For now, he's here, but is going to be moved up.
Ice Climbers
Fox
Zero Suit Samus
Ness
Luigi

Low:
Jigglypuff
Mario
Peach
Ike
Yoshi
Sonic
Pokemon Trainer
Link
Samus


Bottom:
Ganondorf
Sheik
Bowser - I never really liked bowser due to his speed, and he seems kind of crappy to me, besides his
cheap bowser suicide kill, he doesn't have much. Meh, I guess I just never saw a good Bowser D:

Captain Falcon - I personally don't think that Falcon is this bad, but, there isn't anyone to go under him, so, LOL.

 

[MysticKenji]

It was okay until I saw Boozer in bottom.
He's too good to be 2nd to last.

 

[Ace55]

It was okay until I saw Boozer in bottom.
He's too good to be 2nd to last.

Oh please, G&W above MK was already a suprising start. And Lucas is high tier?

 

[exidid]

It's not OK...

Bowser and Sheik aren't Bottom. Peach is definitely not Low. Lucas is not High Tier. Game & Watch not best.

There might be other problems but those are the first that came to mind.

 

[popsofctown]

I'm glad you are openminded about Diddy, but concerned that you haven't heard enough about the vs. Wario's grab-release exploits (which are predicted to send his tournament results downward), and don't comprehend how beastly MK is. (MK is the only character who should supersede your G&W, you are mostly right about G&W's power)

 

[Xeze]

No for MK no.
he is like Sheik in melee. Everyone knew sheik was top tier despite it being early.

as far as I know, Sheik is high tier in melee, but yeah I understand your point. I saw some Meta Knight videos and he kicks ***. but it's just my opinion.

Low:
Jigglypuff
Mario
Peach
Ike
Yoshi
Sonic
Pokemon Trainer
Link
Samus

No, Mario is not low and I'm not saying this because he is my main. his cape+F.L.U.D.D edgeguard is really great, although few players use this. And Ike should aslo be a little higher.

 

[Grunt]

The reason people compare MK to Sheik in Melee, is due to ease of use.

 

[ShadowLink84]

as far as I know, Sheik is high tier in melee, but yeah I understand your point. I saw some Meta Knight videos and he kicks ***. but it's just my opinion.

Well my general pint was that he was really good off the bat.
I believe Sheik has alternated from tip and high tier several times. i know the most recent one has her in high tier..

No, Mario is not low and I'm not saying this because he is my main. his cape+F.L.U.D.D edgeguard is really great, although few players use this. And Ike should aslo be a little higher.

IMO ike is lower mid tier material.

 

[rathy Aro]

Top:
Mr. Game And Watch - His aerials hurt, he requires almost no skill, and can kill way too easily.
Meta Knight
Snake
Marth

Very High:
Donkey Kong - He's been doing very well in tournaments, which moves him up here.
R.O.B - Doing horrible in tournaments compared to other Very High Tier characters.
Wario
Falco
King Dedede
Lucario
Olimar
Pit - Doing almost as well as R.O.B, so I moved him up here.

High Tier:
Pikachu
Wolf
Kirby
Zelda
Lucas
Toon Link

Middle:
Diddy Kong - I'm still debating his Tier Placement. For now, he's here, but is going to be moved up.
Ice Climbers
Fox
Zero Suit Samus
Ness
Luigi

Low:
Jigglypuff
Mario
Peach
Ike
Yoshi
Sonic
Pokemon Trainer
Link
Samus


Bottom:
Ganondorf
Sheik
Bowser - I never really liked bowser due to his speed, and he seems kind of crappy to me, besides his
cheap bowser suicide kill, he doesn't have much. Meh, I guess I just never saw a good Bowser D:

Captain Falcon - I personally don't think that Falcon is this bad, but, there isn't anyone to go under him, so, LOL.

For a first post its not too bad, but a couple of things wrong. First of all I really don't like sheik's placement. >.> It assumes she can't use downB and even if that were the case she would still be low. not bottom! With transform many agree she's top of mid at least (no proof of this since NO ONE!!! plays sheik/zelda -.-). Ganon's actually not that bad. Good tech chase, can kill very early. Has a suicide. He's not really bottom. I didn't think marth was doing so well to be top tier nor does he seem to have some amazing hidden potential to rocket him up there.

 

[Xeze]

The reason people compare MK to Sheik in Melee, is due to ease of use.

MK is not that easy to use. In fact he's a bit tricky. Personally I think Sheik is easier to use.

 

[i.E.]

.....did somebody just suggest Metaknight won't be top tier?

Yea. That actually did happen.

 

[Gindler]

MK is easy to use...easy to use well is another story.

But if MK is the new shiek, then you're saying he's top now but won't be later (fox and falco showed up). I think he'll always be top, although I find diddy more annoying and G&W ultra annoying as well.

 

[ShadowLink84]

thats cause Diddy is a face humping creature and G&W decks out paper cuts that hurt like none other.