Official Brawl Tier Discussion (OP Updated)

[PsiStomp]

What tier is lucas and ness in?

 

[Yuna-Maria]

What tier is lucas and ness in?

Depends on who you ask. I'd personally give them both mid-tier status. They're both alright, but Lucas is definitely better.

 

[Dexter Morgan]

While I honestly think that there are no tiers in Brawl (Yeah yeah, flame me and ****, but honestly, this is the best balanced Super Smash Brothers created thus far. Melee, undeniably, had tiers. Brawl, does not.)

So, based on my opinion, these are the characters I hate facing most, more likely than not due to annoying/spammable attacks and such:

Pikachu
Pit
Metaknight
Falco
Olimar
ROB

Those are the most annoying characters to face, but not necessarily the top tier. EVERY character can be played effectively, and I've heard people whine about every character (maybe except Mario.)

But I know all of you will insist on there being tiers, so I'll make one to quench my boredom (even though I do neglect the existance of them).

Top Tier:
Fox
Pikachu
Marth
Pit
Falco
Pokemon Trainer (Ivysaur)
Ike
Snake
Olimar
Jigglypuff
Lucas

Middle Tier:
DK
Link
Samus (Excluding ZSS)
Kirby
G&W
Luigi
Zelda
Sheik
MetaKnight
Pokemon Trainer (Squirtle & Charizard)
Peach
Yoshi
Ganondorf
Ice Climbers
Wolf
Lucario
Ness
Wario
Toon Link
Captain Falcon

Low Tier(But still great characters that can **** you hard.)
Mario
Diddy Kong
King Dedede
Sonic
Bowser

 

[Knickknacks]

Wow. Mario, Diddy, and D3 in low tier.

 

[Nigerian Star Storm]

....Oh my god he's another "Brawls has better balance then Melee" I REALLY advise you look up the Braw; -More balanced than Melee thread in the very same disscussion

 

[Empy]

While I honestly think that there are no tiers in Brawl

Yeah because tier lists are made from tournament results and no1 will be playing Brawl tournaments and even if they do, there won't be any results, they will all finish at the same place.

Also, your " tier list" is made up of random, random, random and random. And spam.

 

[Browny]

why do you think lucas is definitely better? i main them both and i find ness to be better in practically every way.

 

[juniorv376]

Lucas actually ha AT. He has Zap jumping that increases his recovery ALOT. He also has B-Sticking for camping with PK Fire (Not sure if ness has it?) I Dont play lucas or ness, but Ive read alot of convincing topics in the lucas section proving him far superior. I just mentioned some things I could remember.

 

[St. Viers]

Ness has b-sticking, just not as pronounced an effect.

People few lucas as being better because he's faster, both on ground AND in air, has quicker kill moves (f-smash), he doesn't have to rely on grabs/b-air/PKT2 to kill like ness does.

I think ness approaches better, but that's the only place that he seems to outshine Lucas, besides throwing power (but his grab range is sooooo small >_<)

 

[KratosAurion192]

While I honestly think that there are no tiers in Brawl (Yeah yeah, flame me and ****, but honestly, this is the best balanced Super Smash Brothers created thus far. Melee, undeniably, had tiers. Brawl, does not.)

So, based on my opinion, these are the characters I hate facing most, more likely than not due to annoying/spammable attacks and such:

Pikachu
Pit
Metaknight
Falco
Olimar
ROB

Those are the most annoying characters to face, but not necessarily the top tier. EVERY character can be played effectively, and I've heard people whine about every character (maybe except Mario.)

But I know all of you will insist on there being tiers, so I'll make one to quench my boredom (even though I do neglect the existance of them).

Top Tier:
Fox
Pikachu
Marth
Pit
Falco
Pokemon Trainer (Ivysaur)
Ike
Snake
Olimar
Jigglypuff
Lucas

Middle Tier:
DK
Link
Samus (Excluding ZSS)
Kirby
G&W
Luigi
Zelda
Sheik
MetaKnight
Pokemon Trainer (Squirtle & Charizard)
Peach
Yoshi
Ganondorf
Ice Climbers
Wolf
Lucario
Ness
Wario
Toon Link
Captain Falcon

Low Tier(But still great characters that can **** you hard.)
Mario
Diddy Kong
King Dedede
Sonic
Bowser

People still think Fox is good? WTF!?!

 

[St. Viers]

^^ignore Dexter, he's trolling

 

[Grunt]

Viers dont post any more.

 

[St. Viers]

why not? Also, if you (or anyone really) have a problem with me, use PM/aim, not the open forums...

 

[Grunt]

why not? Also, if you (or anyone really) have a problem with me, use PM/aim, not the open forums...

no, you had 1234 posts. now it's 1235.

 

[Monshou_no_Nazo]

People still think Fox is good? WTF!?!

I think he's okay. Definitely not as bad as Captain Falcon.

 

[Zankoku]

Fox is good. I don't think he's great or amazing, though.

 

[Shy Guy 86]

Is Falco top tier? I know that MK is surely is.

and I would like to see the tier list right now(or any smash pro). And not n00bs like Dexter who put people like Ivysaur in Top when hes Middle. But I like his killer Up-Smash and Bullet Seed

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

I'd put falco in "Very High" tier myself.

He's great, but he doesn't seem to be of the same calibur as MK, Snake, Game & Watch, or Marth.

 

[Cat Fight]

Alright, alright... I felt like really putting some thought into making my predictions for what the first actual tier list may look like, so here it is.

* = I'm not sure where to place them amongst themselves. I feel like they are all very close to each other, so it's hard for me to determine where they belong albeit I can see them remaining very close to each other in the tier list.

** = Personally, I believe she deserves to be higher but I'm not given enough incenstive to actually PUT her higher, heh. Until people start actually using her, I think she's bottom of mid.

Top:
Snake
Meta Knight

High:
King Dedede
Marth
Mr. Game & Watch
Tink
Wario
ROB
Donkey Kong

Mid:
Pit
Pikachu
Ice Climbers
Falco
Wolf
Fox
Pokemon Trainer
Captain Olimar
Diddy Kong *
Kirby *
Mario *
Lucario * (maybe above Mario, not sure)
Zelda **

Low:
Zamus
Sheik
Sonic
Bowser
Luigi
Peach
Jigglypuff
Lucas

Bottom:
Captain Falcon
Yoshi
Ganondorf
Link
Samus
Ness

 

[Metro Knight]

I like Link and Ness > Sonic. Does anyone have a good sonic Video?

 

[Cat Fight]

Ness isn't all that great by himself already, but being susceptible to release grab by pretty much every character in Brawl... I don't think he'll be "rising in the ranks" anytime soon.

 

[Blistering Speed]

I feel Lucario requires more discussion, he has a huge amount of potential and at the moment he is in the lower part of high for me. If people need reasons or just debate I'll be happy to comply.

 

[Snakeee]

ZSS is high tier and I will prove it myself, well seems I pretty much have in NY/NJ already

 

[Shy Guy 86]

Tiers, take II. I posted edition one about 30 pages back and made some changes based on suggestions.

Top Tier
Snake – No one's arguing this.
Meta-Knight – See above.
Marth – He's just as great as he was in Melee. What he now lacks in speed he makes up for in power.
Mr. Game and Watch – Improved recovery, improved killing power, faster, better shield. G-Dub makes up for his sloppy performance last time around.
Falco – One of the most effective projectile spams, even though it can be ducked by a few characters. His new reflector is both good and bad for him, but it helps eliminate choices for approaching characters. His recovery is no longer terrible since no one falls as fast.
ROB – Good projectiles but they must be charged so he can't spam that effectively. Some of his moves come out fairly slowly, especially some aerials. His recovery, however, is godly and allows him to WOP. A great counter for many characters.

High Tier
Pikachu – His usmash was nerfed, but d-smash stabs shields, racks up damage, and sends the opponent up for a thunder, which was also buffed. His projectile is still very useful on many stages, sideB for recovery now reflects many projectiles, and upB sweetspots almost instantly, not to mention that it can cancel off the ground. His aerials seem a bit less useful though.
Toon Link – Good at linking attacks and great at camping with what's likely the best projectile spam in the game. He’s fast and still has KO power, but he's really quick to die and his recovery and grabs are lackluster.
Wolf – His blaster is pretty annoying, he’s powerful with not that big of a speed loss, and his multi-hit attacks lessen the loss in damage for spammed moves. However, he’s the fastest faller in the game and has a poor recovery that doesn’t even sweetspot the edge.
Ice Climbers – Chain grabs are still just as good. The AI also works much better on Nana, so she doesn’t die as easily. Plus, both Climbers can now grab the edge. IC’s are very strong for such light characters, and Popo can survive by himself more easily now.
Luigi – His recovery is vastly improved with the Luigi Tornado, making his slightly odd combination of sideB and upB more doable. His fireballs take longer to come out but most of his moves have little to no windup lag. However, his floaty nature makes him somewhat hard to control.
King Dedede – Chain grabs again, plus annoying Waddle Dees. He's the hardest character to kill, since he's heavy, he has multiple jumps, and his upB goes very high. His stronger, slower moves are balanced by his disjoint and quick tilts. However, many faster characters can destroy him since he doesn’t have a great defensive strategy.
Bowser – His tilts are actually pretty fast, especially for a slow character. Whirling Fortress still works wonders on light characters that happen to be annoying him. Bowserciding is always an easy-to-pull-off strategy should he find himself in a tough situation or one stock up.
Kirby – Buffed hardcore. He lost his Kirbycide throws, but his aerial hammer is much better and he can still inhale to kill himself or stick his opponent underneath the stage. No projectile, but he can steal his opponent's to cancel it out. Lightweight, but with a good recovery.

Mid Tier
Wario – He’s a very unpredictable character, despite the fact that he’s a dork. His recovery, while it takes forever and is fairly gimpable, is still great. He also lasts forever, and he’s been dominating tournaments.
Donkey Kong – Much like Bowser, he's improved in most aspects. His range is still great, his speed has been upped, and DK-cides are always an option, as are cargo throws. It’s a bit of overkill with a billion spikes, and his vertical recovery is still garbage, but he’s better off than he was last time.
Lucario – This guy has pretty good range on most of his attacks, and a decent projectile even when it's not charged. His pseudo-SHUFFL is always a good thing, and his damage multipliers really help him against characters with lower KO power.
Pit – He has some odd tilts and smashes, but performs pretty well in close range. His projectile is very irritating but does pretty lackluster damage. His recovery is decent when used correctly but can be cancelled fairly easily.
Zelda – Din’s Fire can juggle and is overall a great projectile for edgeguarding, as it forces opponents to airdodge or get *****. Her smashes and aerials have been buffed, and she has a lot of great matchups. However, she’s still light and her recovery is predictable.
Olimar - People were really afraid of this guy early on, but he's so light and his recovery is so awful that there's little to worry about. He annhilates heavy or large characters but can't do a thing about anyone faster than him.
Fox – Not as good as he used to be, but you don't see many people crying about it. He definitely has been nerfed in many respects, but he still has his place to shine.
Diddy Kong – He’s fast and banana-ful, but his recovery must be charged, which is bad against good spikers, especially since he’s so light. His projectile is pretty bad, and 'naners can be used against him. Not as great as people thought initially.
Zero Suit Samus – She’s good in a lot of respects, but her recovery is gimpable even with her third jump, plus her projectile is pretty crappy. Her smash attacks seem gimmicky, and lots of moves are pretty pointless. Good range and fast, but extremely weak and her recovery doesn’t help.
Lucas – Great projectile spam, great edgeguarding with upB, a somewhat gimpable recovery, creepy magnet tricks. He would be in high tier, but he gets chaingrabbed. He might end up even lower.
Yoshi – Better than last time, admit it. His recovery is definitely helped by his newer upB, and his eggs seem to be more useful this time around. The loss of DJC actually helps him in many cases.However, he's still not good enough to get higher than bottom of mid tier.

Low Tier
Mario - Cape isn't as good, FLUDD is on the verge of useless, he can't KO that well. He is slightly redeemed by his ledgeguarding and good approach. He’s not speedy but certainly not slow. Being the all-around character just doesn’t seem to be good enough.
Pokemon Trainer – His Pokemon don't balance out that well, and excel in different parts of the game while severely lacking in others. The fatigue system ends up screwing him over when he has to switch to get a KO. Fun to use, but not that great.
Ike – He’s powerful but very slow. The fact that he was popular very early on makes people know exactly how to beat him. Almost anyone faster than him can beat him easily.
Sonic - Fast runner, slow attacks. Something's wrong here. He does have a good approach, and he can move around the stage incredibly quickly. His recovery is good, but it’s somewhat gimpable. Only people who are willing to put in lots of time should bother with this guy.
Samus – Nerfed. Her smash attacks aren't as good and her missile seems slower. Her spike is still hard to hit with, and she doesn’t have a great way to deal with opponents above her.
Sheik – Triple-nerf. She has very little of what she had back in Melee, so people can find a new most annoying character now. How the mighty have fallen.
Link – This guy just doesn’t deserve to be this bad. Somewhat powerful, but his sluggishness makes him much less playable. His boomerang doesn’t hit on the way back, his arrows don’t go as far as Toon Link’s, and his horizontal recovery is pretty bad.
Ness - He gets chaingrabbed even worse than Lucas, and has fewer redeeming qualities. Although he has a few good matchups, he isn’t much better than he was in Melee. Shame.
Peach - Nothing compared to what she once was. D-smash isn’t that good, and recovery seems nerfed. She retains her lightness and is KO’ed extremely easily.

Bottom Tier
Jigglypuff - Nerfed hard. Rest doesn't kill as early, WOP isn't as impressive since more characters can do it now, plus where most characters die at higher percentages in this game, Jiggz just seemed to stay at the same pitiful death rate.
Ganondorf – He runs slower, attacks slower, and recovers just as badly as he did in Melee. Ganoncide is his only improvement, everything else has gotten way worse.
Captain Falcon - Captain Falcon can't do much of anything this time around. Poor approach, lackluster recovery, no killer knee... he's got it bad. He also rounds out the fact that the bottom tier is made up of Melee’s high tier.


Suggestions are appreciated.

I agree with this one. It seems perfect. and Falco does match Marth, Snake and MK. and Pikachu is at the right place, I mean he can beat the **** out of snake

but here is what I think: When you got favorites you make them work, then they start kickin' the **** out of people.

I'd do that if Shy Guy was there even if he sucked.

 

[Holmboy]

Hmmm, last time I came here, people were placing MK in mid or so tier. Just wondering if there's any particular reason why he's now Top?

 

[St. Viers]

meh, 1234 isn't cool--I'm going for 1337...

 

[Mr. Escalator]

Ness has b-sticking, just not as pronounced an effect.

People few lucas as being better because he's faster, both on ground AND in air, has quicker kill moves (f-smash), he doesn't have to rely on grabs/b-air/PKT2 to kill like ness does.

I think ness approaches better, but that's the only place that he seems to outshine Lucas, besides throwing power (but his grab range is sooooo small >_<)

Bah, Ness certainly has AT's of his own. Go to the Ness section and check out the PK "Cross" AT Guide. It has a lot of neat things, like PK Jumping, so check it out if you can.

The thing is, however, that Ness has an easier time killing than Lucas does. He has various ways to score a kill. Uair is as strong as DK's, Dair is pretty much the sweetest spike ever, Bair kills near the edge like it was meant to do, Bthrow is his most reliable kill move, and for good reason (It's stronger than Olimar's Blue Pikmin throw), and PKT2 kills as low as 40% and their are some inescapable combos linking to it. Lucas may have the quicker Fsmash, but Ness' Fsmash is his worst smash move and he has far better options. Lucas' Smash's in general are hard to hit with anyways, and his throws are largely uneffective.

Oh, and when you get them to high enough percents, how does Lucas plan to approach to get that kill off? He doesn't. Ness has better kill options, and faaaaar better approaching options.

Ness beats Lucas in the air, by far, so thats no contest.

and Ness' grabs are better than average. His shield grab may not have range, but his dash grab is easily among the best dash grabs in the game. It's got a lot of range and Ness moves a great deal forward.

Ness and Lucas should always be very close in the tiers.

Ness isn't all that great by himself already, but being susceptible to release grab by pretty much every character in Brawl... I don't think he'll be "rising in the ranks" anytime soon.

Placing Ness as the bottom-most character is just stupid.
He only gets chain grabbed by three characters; Marth, Charizard, and Squirtle.
He already had a bad matchup vs Marth, so who cares. He used to beat PT, but now it's in PT's favor, but not terribly.

And if you're referring to what they can do when he breaks out opposed to regrabbing, it matters little.

A lot of people have combo's out of their throws any ways. G&W has Dthrow - > Dsmash, Dedede has a few options out of his throw (ignoring CGs), Wario is pretty tech chase like, pikachu has Usmash, and kirby has a few things he can do immediately out of his throw.

Honestly, doing something out of the release grab isn't as gamebreaking as you think.

I see the two as mid tier.
Sorry for arguing, but I don't like the Ness hate.

 

[FeArTeHsMaSh]

Here's to hoping that Snake becomes the Link of Brawl. Yet, his forward tilt will always say otherwise.

 

[jiovanni007]

I feel Lucario requires more discussion, he has a huge amount of potential and at the moment he is in the lower part of high for me. If people need reasons or just debate I'll be happy to comply.

Lucario is awesome, he's one of my secondaries. He has great priority, pretty decent combo ability, and a CG. The only problem is that with his "Aura" ability, he never really has any great balance. When Luke is at low percents, it is much too difficult to kill with anything outside of a fsmash, which is a sweetspotted move that has noticeable start-up lag. His gimping is pretty good, but if you don't kill your opponent and they make it back before you, they'll more than likely punish your mediocre recovery skills. Luke is also a large target as well. Whenever he does get some damage on him, his attacks have a noticeable increase. The bad part about this is that you really don't get above average power until your above 100%, that is also coupled with his gravity which make vertical KOs a cinch. Lucario is good don't get me wrong, but I don't see him getting any further than upper mid tier. Don't let that discourage you though, Falcon was at the top of the mid tier in Melee, and you saw how his manliness did very well. Also Luke has a bit of a popularity problem which means his metagame is gonna develop slower than other characters so I would still keep an eye on him.

 

[St. Viers]

Um, you can simply f-smash with lucas, as it's quick. Also, although his u-air and back-throw are not as good as ness', they do allow for kills, just at slightly higher percents.

Also, if your only going to quote me, stick to what I said--I never said he didn't have ATs. I also didn't say thought he was bad. I personally like Ness better, but I still think lucas is the better char, by at least 1/2 tier...

 

[Mr. Escalator]

It was the guy above you that I was reply too about the AT's. I'm sorry, I just didnt feel like quoting him as well. You can ignore that part, personally, as I know you didnt say it.

The thing is, if thats all you're going to try and kill with, then you're rarely going to get the kills. The Fmash is beyond predictable, so any opponent aware of you going for the kill is going to watch out for this one move and play around you.

Lucas' Bthrow is bad, not because of the actual throw, but because of his awful grabs. The grabs laggy on startup and end time and infinitely more punishable than Ness' grabs. Ness' is way better.

Ness doesnt use the uair for kills too much, and Lucas' Uair is a worse version of this, so I dont see how you're going to get many kills with this.

Why do you feel Lucas is better?
He has an easier time recovering, and an alright spacing game, but what makes him the obvious superior vs Ness?
I see them as on equal footing, and covering the other one's weak spots.

 

[Shy Guy 86]

I have a feeling that Snake will be the Link of Brawl and Lucario to be the C.Falcon of brawl but its very unlikely to happen.

 

[St. Viers]

Lucas is faster, with quicker projectiles. I find his PKT much more versatile than Ness,' although Ness' PKT2 is better. It's much easier to gimp Ness' recovery, because of the speed/maneuverability of the PKT.

Also, Lucas has a tether, meaning he gets invincibility frames from the ledge by dropping, tethergrabbing (which you can immediately act from, unlike grabbing the ledge regularly)

Spacing is important in brawl, and I find Lucas has a better spacing game, with his f-air, ability to shoot PK-fire forwards while moving, and his tilts seem to have more range than Ness.' Lucas also can Punish mistakes better imo than Ness, because of the powerful moves he has (if the opponent whiffs with any grab, dash attack, or laggy aerial/smash, Lucas gets to release an up-smash, or in less extreme cases d-smash, which is still really good.

I know Ness is greatly underestimated, but I hope I've explained why I feel Lucas is the better character ^_^

 

[Mr. Escalator]

Lucas is faster, with quicker projectiles. I find his PKT much more versatile than Ness,' although Ness' PKT2 is better. It's much easier to gimp Ness' recovery, because of the speed/maneuverability of the PKT.

http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=167952

"A Class"
Sonic - 3.36
Donkey Kong - 3.36
Lucas - 3.30
Bowser - 3.30
Squirtle - 3.27
Mr. Game & Watch - 3.24
Marth - 3.24

"B Class"
Zero Suit Samus - 3.13
Charizard - 3.07
Zelda - 3.02
Samus - 2.97
Lucario - 2.95
Ness - 2.92

The difference in aerial speed is negligible. Ness' is quicker in the air because of the speed of his aerials. Running speed isn't even worth noting. Overall, Ness has quicker moves, hence, he's the faster character. Is Ivysaur a faster character than Squirtle just because he can run faster?

Oh, and for the projectile bit, the only projectile you should be comparing is PK Fire. Not Freeze vs Flash, just the Pk Fires. There's no difference in speed of the PK fire. Lucas' is more spammable, but Ness has the more desirable effect because it can lead into so many things, and it can gimp on the edge. His PK fire is an approach because of PK jumping, where Lucas' just pushes away.

And both of their PKT's have different uses. Ness' is quicker, but Lucas' is easier to maneuver. Ness' PKT thunder juggles better, and ends on impact, where Lucas' gimps better but you actually have to crash it into something for it to end early, or possibly get punished. The multihitting is ignorable because Ness can tailwhip his PKT.

Also, Lucas has a tether, meaning he gets invincibility frames from the ledge by dropping, tethergrabbing (which you can immediately act from, unlike grabbing the ledge regularly)

The tether is a plus, but it doesnt set the two apart. Honestly.
Still a nice add-on for Lucas.

Spacing is important in brawl, and I find Lucas has a better spacing game, with his f-air, ability to shoot PK-fire forwards while moving, and his tilts seem to have more range than Ness.' Lucas also can Punish mistakes better imo than Ness, because of the powerful moves he has (if the opponent whiffs with any grab, dash attack, or laggy aerial/smash, Lucas gets to release an up-smash, or in less extreme cases d-smash, which is still really good.

Spacing is good, but Lucas relies on this. Anyone who can space better than Lucas can gets the advantage. Anyone who forces Lucas to approach gets the advantage. Ness' can approach, and he has an above average approach game, whereas Lucas only has spacing.

Lucas may be able to do the punishing bit better (and this is arguable because Ness can react better), but he also gets punished easier for the lag in his attacks. If he messes up, its bad.

The Usmash and Dsmash is so telegraphed, Lucas will usually never get to punish anything with that besides incompetence.

Kept this a little short because you were mostly making generalizations, and I wasnt sure on what exactly to pick at.

 

[VEC]

Luigi is Low tier not Mid, He is doing bad in tournies number 25 and his matchups are awful 9 advantges 6 neutral 22 disadvantages.

 

[robosteven]

It was the guy above you that I was reply too about the AT's. I'm sorry, I just didnt feel like quoting him as well. You can ignore that part, personally, as I know you didnt say it.

The thing is, if thats all you're going to try and kill with, then you're rarely going to get the kills. The Fmash is beyond predictable, so any opponent aware of you going for the kill is going to watch out for this one move and play around you.

Lucas' Bthrow is bad, not because of the actual throw, but because of his awful grabs. The grabs laggy on startup and end time and infinitely more punishable than Ness' grabs. Ness' is way better.

Ness doesnt use the uair for kills too much, and Lucas' Uair is a worse version of this, so I dont see how you're going to get many kills with this.

Why do you feel Lucas is better?
He has an easier time recovering, and an alright spacing game, but what makes him the obvious superior vs Ness?
I see them as on equal footing, and covering the other one's weak spots.

I freaking love you.

 

[Cat Fight]

Placing Ness as the bottom-most character is just stupid.
He only gets chain grabbed by three characters; Marth, Charizard, and Squirtle.
He already had a bad matchup vs Marth, so who cares. He used to beat PT, but now it's in PT's favor, but not terribly.

And if you're referring to what they can do when he breaks out opposed to regrabbing, it matters little.

A lot of people have combo's out of their throws any ways. G&W has Dthrow - > Dsmash, Dedede has a few options out of his throw (ignoring CGs), Wario is pretty tech chase like, pikachu has Usmash, and kirby has a few things he can do immediately out of his throw.

Honestly, doing something out of the release grab isn't as gamebreaking as you think.

I see the two as mid tier.
Sorry for arguing, but I don't like the Ness hate.

Since when is Ness only susceptible to being release grabbed by three characters now?

And I never mentioned anything about what the opponent can do whilst Ness is in the "break out" animation... because there are a multitude possibilities, so I don't know what you mean by that "mattering little" heh.

Also, I don't know where I said anything about "combos out of throws" but...
It's a release grab. Here's how it works... grab, grab, grab, grab, grab, grab, grab, grab, grab... etc.

I don't hate Ness, btw. My friend Poink mains Ness.

 

[Mr. Escalator]

Since when is Ness only susceptible to being release grabbed by three characters now?

And I never mentioned anything about what the opponent can do whilst Ness is in the "break out" animation... because there are a multitude possibilities, so I don't know what you mean by that "mattering little" heh.

Also, I don't know where I said anything about "combos out of throws" but...
It's a release grab. Here's how it works... grab, grab, grab, grab, grab, grab, grab, grab, grab... etc.

I don't hate Ness, btw. My friend Poink mains Ness.

http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=167365
This.

Only three characters can do what you're talking about.
I mentioned what they can do out of the breaking free animation because you weren't all that clear about release grabs. I wasnt sure if you were uninformed about the infinites only being for three, or if you were talking about silly things like tilts as they break out.

But I know now. You just didnt know Ness can only be CG'd by Marth, Charizard, and Squirtle. Hopefully that thread clears up the confusion. So many people still think Ness gets CG'd by the entire cast, but It's false.

 

[Competitiveplayerssuck]

This thread sucks.

 

[SheikSmasher]

lol it only sucks if sheik aint in middle tier lol