Official Brawl Tier Discussion (OP Updated)

[Browny]

take Dedede out and i think that list wins.

 

[Nigerian Star Storm]

As for the Falcon video I wasn't really blown away. The Falcon player was very good but I think the Toon Link was a little off when off the air and allowed some kills that really shouldn't have been.

The thing people have to realize before getting so defensive against (predicted) low tier characters is that low tier in Brawl isn't the same as low tier in Melee. So far none of the characters in brawl seem as hopeless to me as Melee G&W/Mewtwo/Pichu etc.

You'd be heavily surprised.....

 

[A2ZOMG]

The thing people have to realize before getting so defensive against (predicted) low tier characters is that low tier in Brawl isn't the same as low tier in Melee. So far none of the characters in brawl seem as hopeless to me as Melee G&W/Mewtwo/Pichu etc.

Yeah, it isn't the same. It's WORSE.

Ganondorf, Ivysaur, and Falcon are like worse than Mewtwo and Pichu.

 

[St. Viers]

agreed. Melee mewtwo was, bad, but at least had suprisingly decent matchups against the top chars (falco, fox, some extent falcon)

I don't see a falcon ever winning unless he's loads better than his opponent.

 

[Lionman]

Captain falcon is one of my favorite characters, im sad because in brawl is a bad character, but Pit looks powerfull

 

[goukakyuu]

Metaknight can do almost everything, why else is he overplayed?

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

I also think the Samus player was better than the ROB. But still the Samus player showed some very excellent techniques. Not enough to really prove anything conclusively but enough to offer a glimmer of hope at least. By the way... when you saw that Samus did anyone else think that she's playing exactly as if it were a metroid game?
As for Zelda I don't think she needs an air game that much. She's at her best when defending against approaches so she doesn't really need to go airbrne that often. Her aerials are best used sparingly as surprise attacks. Her aerials should usually be fresh and can be great for surprise kills.

yeah. I noticed that too. :D

 

[SheikSmasher]

I found a really good video of sheik and zss here ya go ppl ----> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d2oRnRIoBLk

 

[Inui]

I agree with just about everything Emblem Lord said so far.

My personal tier list based on my tournament and personal experiences using the characters and fighting against them:

-God Tier-
Meta Knight
Snake

-Top Tier-
Dedede
Marth
Toon Link
Game and Watch
Falco
Diddy Kong
Ice Climbers
Pit

-High Tier-
Fox
Squirtle
ROB
Jigglypuff
Wolf
Zelda
Sheik
Pikachu
Kirby
Zero Suit Samus
Luigi
Donkey Kong

-Mid Tier-
Charizard
Wario
Peach
Ike
Lucas
Bowser
Olimar
Lucario
Mario

-Low Tier-
Link
Samus
Ness
Yoshi
Captain Falcon
Ivysaur

-Bottom Tier-
Sonic
Ganondorf

 

[SaxDude93]

I was going to reply with why some guy in the last page was wrong, but I cop/pasted over it, so you get this.

I agree with just about everything Emblem Lord said so far.

My personal tier list based on my tournament and personal experiences using the characters and fighting against them:

-God Tier-
Meta Knight
Snake- I thought it was proven that Snake>MK. Or I could've been smoking crack.

-Top Tier-
Dedede
Marth- See Above. Emblem Lord will prove that Marth>DDD

-High Tier-
ROB-Higher

-Mid Tier-
Ike- Ugh. We've been through this.
Olimar- Higher. Only bad spot is recovery.

-Low Tier-
Captain Falcon- Above someone? NO. He is the worst Brawler in Brawl

 

[Emblem Lord]

Eh.

I do think Marth is overall better then Dedede, especially in regards to match-ups and how easy it is to punish Dedede's recovery, but overall the list isn't bad. I might move G&W around to where Marth and Dedede are, and I would move Snake above MK. I would also move Wolf up a bit, but overall it's ok.

Also CF is bottom tier.

Still, no list will ever be 100%

But at this point we all know who is good and who is not.

 

[SwordmasterXXXI]

I agree with just about everything Emblem Lord said so far.

My personal tier list based on my tournament and personal experiences using the characters and fighting against them:

-God Tier-
Meta Knight
Snake

-Top Tier-
Dedede
Marth
Toon Link
Game and Watch
Falco
Diddy Kong
Ice Climbers
Pit

-High Tier-
Fox
Squirtle
ROB
Jigglypuff
Wolf
Zelda
Sheik
Pikachu
Kirby
Zero Suit Samus
Luigi
Donkey Kong

-Mid Tier-
Charizard
Wario
Peach
Ike
Lucas
Bowser
Olimar
Lucario
Mario

-Low Tier-
Link
Samus
Ness
Yoshi
Captain Falcon
Ivysaur

-Bottom Tier-
Sonic
Ganondorf

Snake is above Metaknight, Marth and G&W are both above DEDEDE.

 

[RedfishX]

Tier List

I agree, Zelda is too low. Put her right below D3, and I like the list.

 

[Crizthakidd]

samus is pretty good in this game her metagame is evovling and ive seen some kick *** samus and zss players.

snake > MK

MK> the rest of the brawlers

then u have ur marth,rob,g&w,d3 and toon/wolf

 

[Ratherion]

Falco > Snake

<<
>>

Well it's the best matchup anyone can have against snake in any case.

 

[Inui]

I will never agree to Snake being better than Meta Knight because Snake is punishable and not safe on block like Meta Knight is. Sorry, but unless Snake somehow loses half of his recovery time after moves, Meta Knight's ability to almost always be safe, including on block, is always going to be better than Snake being fat and having giant moves people haven't learned to respect.

I don't agree with Marcel about Marth being better than Dedede. Dedede has a lot of survivability over Marth and the chaingrab. It's arguable, given how close they are on my list, but I give the edge to Dedede.

Captain Falcon isn't bottom tier. He's like a Sonic with more KO power, existing edgeguarding, and a bit more priority.

 

[Mr. Escalator]

What about Pika and ROB?

 

[Foxy_Marth]

I agree with just about everything Emblem Lord said so far.

My personal tier list based on my tournament and personal experiences using the characters and fighting against them:

-God Tier-
Meta Knight
Snake

-Top Tier-
Dedede
Marth
Toon Link
Game and Watch
Falco
Diddy Kong
Ice Climbers
Pit

-High Tier-
Fox
Squirtle
ROB
Jigglypuff
Wolf
Zelda
Sheik
Pikachu
Kirby
Zero Suit Samus
Luigi
Donkey Kong

-Mid Tier-
Charizard
Wario
Peach
Ike
Lucas
Bowser
Olimar
Lucario
Mario

-Low Tier-
Link
Samus
Ness
Yoshi
Captain Falcon
Ivysaur

-Bottom Tier-
Sonic
Ganondorf

I think D3 is too high, I think Marth, G&W, and Toon Link are definitely low. Squirtle and Jigglypuff are way too high, Olimar is disgustingly low. And ROB needs a move up. And beyond tiers them selves, the placing in the tiers is very shaky.

 

[Foxy_Marth]

Well it's a personal tier list you made so I guess it's different than a real tier list.

 

[Inui]

It's real to me. I can't include stuff I haven't seen or experienced myself, though.

 

[Dexter Morgan]

Don't double post please.^

Every character is good if you know how to use them. Everyone has a different playing style and everyone needs to find a character that fits their style. There are also way too many mixed opinions about each character. Which means there will never be a perfect tier list. It seems tiers are made as an excuse when someone loses. Thus game is the most balanced game ever made, and when a game is this balanced... Tiers Fail.

 

[Ratherion]

I'd argue that the most balanced games ever are chess, checkers an Rock-Papper-Scissors.

Fighting games are ALWAYS unbalanced, it's just a fact of gamerhood.

 

[Nigerian Star Storm]

Don't double post please.^

Every character is good if you know how to use them. Everyone has a different playing style and everyone needs to find a character that fits their style. There are also way too many mixed opinions about each character. Which means there will never be a perfect tier list. It seems tiers are made as an excuse when someone loses. Thus game is the most balanced game ever made, and when a game is this balanced... Tiers Fail.

You have to be kidding me......

Just because someone is good with a character does not take away from that character's inherit disadvantages. There's a reason why the SBR (And SFR >_>) Exist, they're the best and most knowledgeable people your gonna find, and they work together and iron out their opinions untils they can come on a general consensus. Perfect Balance is impossible, it simply cannot be achieved. Good/Great balance is real, but it doesn't stop some characters from being better than others, and as long as some characters are better than others....Tiers exist.

 

[Amide]

I hate to break it to everyone, but Falcon IS NOT the worst character. Sure he has no priority, no projectile, but he's got second best speed, great power... Look, all I'm saying is he's definitely not the worst.

 

[Grandeza]

I'd argue that the most balanced games ever are chess, checkers an Rock-Papper-Scissors.

We had this argument before

Rock is top tier.

 

[salaboB]

I hate to break it to everyone, but Falcon IS NOT the worst character. Sure he has no priority, no projectile, but he's got second best speed, great power... Look, all I'm saying is he's definitely not the worst.

Speed and power won't overcome lack of range, priority, and projectile (Oh, and that's movement speed, not attack speed -- that's also somewhat lacking for him).

 

[Gleam]

Falcon doesn't even have power. All he has is running speed.

 

[Amide]

Speed and power won't overcome lack of range, priority, and projectile (Oh, and that's movement speed, not attack speed -- that's also somewhat lacking for him).

And it doesn't make up for it, but saying that, you can't combo Falcon like you can his also bad clone Ganondorf. (Who I think is worst)

 

[Nigerian Star Storm]

I hate to break it to everyone, but Falcon IS NOT the worst character. Sure he has no priority, no projectile, but he's got second best speed, great power... Look, all I'm saying is he's definitely not the worst.

Great Power? More like mediocore power with horrible lag on a majority of his moves, and Running speed doesn't mean squat, Snake is a pretty slow runner yet he's probably the best character in the game so far.

 

[Mr.Victory07]

And it doesn't make up for it, but saying that, you can't combo Falcon like you can his also bad clone Ganondorf. (Who I think is worst)

Well speed isnt nearly as important in this game, and Ganon has alot of power and priority. So far, ive seen better showings from Ganon players than Captain players

 

[Amide]

Well speed isnt nearly as important in this game, and Ganon has alot of power and priority. So far, ive seen better showings from Ganon players than Captain players

Ganon has faired better, but his priority doesn't make up for the fact that he has lack of range, slow attack speed, and easy comboing.

 

[jobcrackerbah]

Questions about Sadaharu Inui tier list.
-why is ROB so low on the tier list
-why is jigglypuff so high on the tier list

 

[Nigerian Star Storm]

And it doesn't make up for it, but saying that, you can't combo Falcon like you can his also bad clone Ganondorf. (Who I think is worst)

Once again you show how dense you are by taking things only by face value. Slow =/= bad, and Fast=/= Good. Ganon may be easier to juggle do to his overall size, but so can Falcon with just about the same effectiveness. At least Ganon can Tech Chase, Ganoncide, great KO potenital on just about all his moves, Decent aerials when autocanceled, and can actually approach.
Falcon can't do any of this.;

 

[Nigerian Star Storm]

Ganon has faired better, but his priority doesn't make up for the fact that he has lack of range, slow attack speed, and easy comboing.

Falcon's range is attack speed is almost as bad as Ganon, and at least he has the power behind such moves to back it up, Falcon doesn't.


He can't kill efficiently

He can't rack up damage

He's easily camped

His attacks are slow and readable

He has next to no priority

He has horrible matchups and bad Tourney output so far.


Honestly. I can't find a better canadate than him for the Very bottom

 

[gallax]

i agree more with emblem lord. marth>DDD and snake>MK. ive been to a few tourney's and have noticed that snake does better than MK. MK is really good but snake has more manipulative power. I also think pika and G&W should be higher. at least a few more steps up.

 

[St. Viers]

oh, just an interesting fact about ike:

he has a horrible matchup against Diddy Kong...it's almost impossible. *So* annoying. Discuss.

 

[SaxDude93]

Wouldn't that be sort of obvious. DK Jr. has a projectile, bananas, speed, and an approach. Ike has none of these.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

I imagine that bananas stop ANY approach attaemp of ike's

 

[St. Viers]

yeah, but as campers go, I generally don't hate facing diddy, because he's IMO the worst spammer, and bananas are double edged---I thought that DK jr would be the easiest to overcome.

But no, not even diddy (to be fair though I *almost* won), and as diddy is pretty much low-high to mid mid range, it shows where ike should be >_>

@ Sonic: nope, his dash attack is still good, but as his dash attack isn't that great, ....

 

[Emperor Time]

Diddy ***** Ike in aalmost every area.