Official Brawl Tier Discussion (OP Updated)

[ShengNu]

LMAO i love how you enlarged and bolded CF hahahah and yeah how can you put lucas at top when he already has a horrid release weakness? and zelda a mid... bleh

 

[Benjamin Linus]

Except that...Snake owns more characters harder then MK.

Also, Benjamin Linus...Marth in low mid tier?

Yeah, I think I'm done with this thread for a bit.

aside from M2k and PC i've yet to hear people placing well with marth. Also in this game marth runs into alot more hard match-ups. im only assuming now that its a little harder to use marth and he has no more dominant specific skill that he would be mid or low tier.

unless you have information regarding marth players tourney placings that i havent seen then i dont think im incorrect. also M2K mainly uses De3 in tourney.

 

[VersatileBJN]

Marth low mid tier lol...

Marth is top of the high tier.

Snake is numbr 1 and Meta is number 2.


Meta beats a lot of characters harder than Snake does, but Snake also beats everyone and beats MK..so yea.

 

[DanGR]

The mid tier. Olimar needs to go down. Marth, Dedede, and Zelda specifically should be higher.

I'll go in depth for my reasons on request I guess. <<

agreed on Marth,DDD, and Zelda
I'd like you to explain why olimar should be lower if you don't mind. His recovery isn't enough to put him down any more. I already put him down far enough imo. If he had a decent recovery, (like...let's say marth?) he'd be near Falco and Rob on my tier list.

Lowest tier needs a lot of work.

I changed some stuff. look better?

Personally, I believe Zamus should be higher than that. She's quick and has been doing pretty well in tourneys.

I wasn't aware. thanks.

I would make God tier "Top Tier", rename low "Below Average", And then split the lowest tier at Peach, so the Bottom tier is Peach, Yoshi, Jiggly, Ganon, and CF.

corrected.

Here it is so far! thanks everyone. *smiles*

Top-
Snake
MK

High-
G&W
Falco
ROB
TL
Diddy Kong
Pikachu
Marth
Wolf
IC

Mid-
Wario
Olimar
DDD
Lucario
Fox
Zelda
Squirtle
Kirby
Zamus

Below Average-
Big DK
Luigi
Ike
Bowser
Sheik
Lucas
Charizard

Low-
Ivysaur
Ness
Mario
Samus
Link
Sonic

Bottom-
Peach
Yoshi
Jiggs
Ganon
CF

 

[JhMS]

Benjamin Linus:You have to be kidding me.
Marth is at least High tier,he could be Top.
In fact,I think Marth only has problems with snake and Falco.Meta is even.

 

[Nigerian Star Storm]

aside from M2k and PC i've yet to hear people placing well with marth. Also in this game marth runs into alot more hard match-ups. im only assuming now that its a little harder to use marth and he has no more dominant specific skill that he would be mid or low tier.

unless you have information regarding marth players tourney placings that i havent seen then i dont think im incorrect. also M2K mainly uses De3 in tourney.

Marth has two wins so far, and **** loads of Top 4 and Top 8 placings so far, probably more so than anyone else. Check Ankoku Character thread for proof


And Marth has some of the best matchups in the game, very few disadvantages against anyone. Where the heck did you get that? I don't think I can take you seriously when you say he's a "Mid or Low Tier character" You don't seem to have a complete grasp on what your talking about

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

I think you have zelda too low and wolf a bit too high DanGR... but other than that, it's not a terrible tier list

here's my own tir list again... just because:

Top:
Snake
Meta Knight

Very High:
Game & Watch
Marth
Falco
Toon Link
Zelda
ROB
Wario

High:
Olimar
Pikachu
Pit
Ice Climbers
Diddy Kong
Lucario
Wolf
Lucas
Dedede

Middle:
Luigi
Kirby
Zero Suit Samus
Donkey Kong
Fox
Squirtle
Pokemon Trainer
Sheik
Charizard
Ness

Low:
Mario
Peach
Sonic
Bowser
Ike
Samus

Bottom:
Link
Ivysaur
Jigglypuff
Ganondorf
Yoshi
Captain Falcon

 

[Emblem Lord]

Benjamin: Phanna recently won a tourney with Marth.

Anyway, Marth doesn't win alot because everyone good plays Snake and MK and they are the most popular characters. Tier list are match-up based. How good a character is, is in direct relation to other characters. And characters relate to one another in the match-ups.

Also M2K and PC both agree with me when I say that Marth is no worse then high tier, so wtf are you talking about?

If you want me to get into why Marth is great then read this link.

http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=160740

I go into detail in this thread about why Marth is good.

Personally I think Marth is the top of high tier BTW.

NSS: Marth has the most top 8 placings then anyone else aside from Snake and MK. He may not win alot, but he is still up there.

 

[Benjamin Linus]

EL believe me, im am not saying marth is a bad character, i know hes good but i guess i was misinformed about his tourney placings. also in a debate a long time ago on what the tier lists are based on, im pretty sure it ended in the answer being tourney placings. match-ups may play a role but i think its mainly about how well the character does in tourney or how much he is used in tourney.

i could have been a little biased because in my area marth is rarely seen. i have also mainly seen only De3's and snakes winning in my areas tourneys. with what i have seen now i would say marth should be middle of high tier or maybe 2nd to last.

As for all the people putting De3 in mid-tier, i dont understand how you can do that when in 5 or so different states the best player mains De3.

 

[Nigerian Star Storm]

EL believe me, im am not saying marth is a bad character, i know hes good but i guess i was misinformed about his tourney placings. also in a debate a long time ago on what the tier lists are based on, im pretty sure it ended in the answer being tourney placings. match-ups may play a role but i think its mainly about how well the character does in tourney or how much he is used in tourney.

i could have been a little biased because in my area marth is rarely seen. i have also mainly seen only De3's and snakes winning in my areas tourneys. with what i have seen now i would say marth should be middle of high tier or maybe 2nd to last.

As for all the people putting De3 in mid-tier, i dont understand how you can do that when in 5 or so different states the best player mains De3.

I think the problem here, is that, you weight way too much on tourney results and not enough on Matchups which in turn AFFECT AND REFLECT those tourney results, and creditied Pro opinion, which we either get from experianced players or the sticky in the Tactical disscussion thread.

They should be weight on a near equal balance. All three sources have their respective flawed data, so weighting too much on one aspect can create a misinformed and poorly structured opinion

 

[Emblem Lord]

Match-ups are the basis, while tourney placings serve as supporting evidence. But its not enough to just say tourney results. You have to look at which characters beat who and the skill of the players.
Tournament results can be skewed by popularity as well. Snake, Dedede, and MK are more popular then Marth so of course they will win more then him.

 

[TehBo49]

@ Emblem Lord: I meant fanatic in that you're obsessed with Marth & thus very knowledgeable. I didn't mean it offensively. It's okay to be a character fanatic anyway as long as you don't go around making n00b comments. I consider myself to be a Pikachu/Toon Link fanatic. And I agree, Marth should be around the top of high tier.

@ SaxDude: I agree. I miss the n00b tier lists. Where did they all go?

@ Hedgedawg: Switch Luigi with Lucas & Pikachu with Olimar. Move Yoshi to at least the top of bottom.

 

[Nigerian Star Storm]

It appears the Smash Front room has accomplished one thing, reducing the amount of nub Tier lists. Great job guys, and it's only our first day >_>

 

[BDawgPHD]

I understand what you are saying. But since no smash back roomers or major players post in this thread, you pretty much in the upper echelon as far as posters in this thread are concerned (unless you only factor the frequent intelligent posters on here. I am inclined to agree with you then). Unfortunately, NSS has you beat as far as tier quality is concerned imo (and I had to say that with a grain of salt considering I beleive Kirby players will rule smash one day )

Also, do you get your character info from personal exp., the tactical discussion, this thread or each of the character forums? I also ask this to NSS, BDawg, and Hedgehawg.

I get my character info mostly from personal experience, taking into account mostly the best use of each character that I've seen. This is why most of my experience is with MK, DK, Bowser, Luigi, etc. and not so much with Wolf, TL, etc. Although recently I've seen some of the tourney-popular characters in action, so I have a pretty good idea of things.

I don't really take this thread too too seriously, save some nuggets of intelligent perception. I check a character forum here or there sometimes, although personal experience is far more beneficial to me....I'm lucky enough to play with people that are good at Brawl.

It appears the Smash Front room has accomplished one thing, reducing the amount of nub Tier lists. Great job guys, and it's only our first day >_>

Too true XD

I sure have played with good people.

Guess what?

There are ALOT more good MK's compared to good Marth's. MK is a much more popular character so this is to be expected.

You ****** your buddies Marth with MK means jack ****.

Whenever I read your post about Marth you say dumb ****. Things like Marth can't pressure and other such nonsense.

Stop it.

Tehboh: What? Dude...I'm the only one in this thread and the Brawl match-up thread posting that really KNOWS Marth.

I'm not a Marth fanatic. I have done soooooooooo much work in the Marth forums, and I know my ****. Marth's match-ups can have him as no less then high tier.

If you think you know your **** BDawg then debate me.

I don't need to. I simply have more experience than you, so I can throw that around and it makes me right

Besides, I'm not saying Marth is bad, I'm just saying that Snake, Meta Knight, Toon Link, Olimar, Dedede, ROB, G&W, DK, and Bowser are all better than him.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

@ Hedgedawg: Switch Luigi with Lucas & Pikachu with Olimar. Move Yoshi to at least the top of bottom.

I'll move yoshi up... but I still think Link's better.

Top:
Snake
Meta Knight

Very High:
Game & Watch
Marth
Falco
Toon Link
Zelda
ROB
Wario

High:
Olimar
Pikachu
Pit
Ice Climbers
Diddy Kong
Lucario
Wolf
Lucas
Dedede

Middle:
Luigi
Kirby
Zero Suit Samus
Donkey Kong
Fox
Squirtle
Pokemon Trainer
Sheik
Charizard
Ness

Low:
Mario
Peach
Sonic
Bowser
Ike
Samus

Bottom:
Link
Yoshi
Ivysaur
Jigglypuff
Ganondorf
Captain Falcon

 

[Nigerian Star Storm]

I understand what you are saying. But since no smash back roomers or major players post in this thread, you pretty much in the upper echelon as far as posters in this thread are concerned (unless you only factor the frequent intelligent posters on here. I am inclined to agree with you then). Unfortunately, NSS has you beat as far as tier quality is concerned imo (and I had to say that with a grain of salt considering I beleive Kirby players will rule smash one day )

Also, do you get your character info from personal exp., the tactical discussion, this thread or each of the character forums? I also ask this to NSS, BDawg, and Hedgehawg.

Everything. This topic, Ankoku Character disscusion thread, the Matchup chart thread, Character threads, rarely do I use my very own opinion to factor things, only maybe as a last resort tiebreaker.My very own Tier list topic that originated from Gamefaqs, and so much more.

 

[metalmonstar]

documents.google.com/

If you all would like to create accounts here that would be great. I can just simply add you to the Brawl Tier document that I have created. From there we can discuss who we think belongs where and why. Google docs is a great place to collaborate since it operates in real time and saves changes regularly. Also we can look at previous versions and see who edited what. There are so many advantages to using it. It only takes an active email account and of course creating a password to get started. Then just tell me the email you have put down and I can just share the document with you. I think if we pool all the knowledge of the Smash Front Roomers together we can create an accurate and agreeable tier list. With Google docs we won't have to search through page after page to see who said what. Not to mention with google docs we can update when we get a chance just like a forum but the changes are made in pretty much real time.

Just let me know if you think this is a good idea or if you have created an account and wish to be added to the discussion.

 

[St. Viers]

^^it's why he's part of the sfr XD

um, I think a discussion board or chatroom would be more useful, but that's an interesting idea ^_^

I say this because in addition to just going over tier lists, we could work on just talking about char v char and things like that >_>

 

[TehBo49]

@ Hedgedawg: I guess I can live with that

 

[BDawgPHD]

I agree with google docs man. We need to keep our thoughts and discussions consolidated. That being said....

surprisebuttsecks@hotmail.com (take that, spambots :D)

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

don't know how to find your doc but:

sonic_the_hedgedawg@hotmail.com

 

[SaxDude93]

never used Google Docs, but

saxsword@aim.com

 

[missingnomaster]

Exactly what is so bad about Yoshi? All I've seen people say is that there is nothing particularly great about him.

 

[St. Viers]

people, posting ur e-mails=spambots...just PM him ^_^ (gah, haven't had to warn people about that in so long...)

Yoshi just has too few people playing him, and a very limited defensive game. He needs to play agressive, but doens't have a good enough move set to do so (unlike falco, wolf, MK, for example)

While he does have some good aerials, and decent range, no one has been playing him and winning

 

[Nigerian Star Storm]

........................................

 

[Nigerian Star Storm]

lol, how many of you actually go to/do well in tournaments?

I recently went to my first Brawl tourney. I did okay >_>.

I went to 2 Melee tourneys in Dallas a year or two ago.

 

[BDawgPHD]

so, uh, I'm just going to put my thoughts into flamboyantly gay fonts and such so they stick out and are out of the way

 

[Nigerian Star Storm]

We need a new character to discuss >_>.

*Flips through character handbook*

Uhhhhhhhh.....How about Pit?

 

[Grunt]

Pit was good when people didn't realize you could dodge arrows and aerial dodge more than once. he's still good, but much easier to counter and still, has no kill moves. he's much worse than MK, but with a good projectile, fast attacks on ground and air, and 2 counter moves, is a decent character. not very noob friendly besides spamming arrows. he is probably high mid.

 

[St. Viers]

Pros: glides, has a good projectile, variety of defensive options. Also kills decently if you can save f-smash, b-air, and surprisingly dash attack >_>

cons: light, weak, no range, and really annoying voice

honestly, I can't say too much about him, except that he's very easy to pick up and do okay with

 

[TehBo49]

@ metal monstar: My computer is being so ****ing slow right now, that I can't make an account. I'll just PM you the address in a few hours, okay?

@ everyone: If all of the intelligent posters go to Google, what will happen to this thread?

 

[Nigerian Star Storm]

It'll go back to what it was beforehand......And I say let it.

 

[St. Viers]

naw, we could come and correct things, make them prove their points. Because some may have valid reasons.

Lets not get too elitist XP

btw, I'm actually for the google thing.

 

[PIMPSLAP]

St.Viers we should you know play each other
You sound like you know how to play

 

[Nigerian Star Storm]

Have a point there, we can come in and correct horrible opinions.


And yeah I think the Google thing is a pretty good Idea.

 

[BDawgPHD]

ugh, I'm done. One of you guys should remind me about this thing tomorrow, because I'll probably forget

 

[St. Viers]

PIMPSLAP, I don't own brawl. I can't play you unless you live in my area. Plus, I'm only good at theory, I'm too impatient (read: play melee) to actually try. In a tournie/MM though...

Don't worry though, I've played brawl pretty much daily, so I kinda know what I'm talking about

 

[metalmonstar]

I am glad so many of you like the idea. I think a lot will get done. At least this way we won't get bogged down by Ike and Sonic fans saying that their character deserves high tier or tier list made on the whim.

I have put up my tier list on there and I also added a source list that will really help our discussion.

 

[Kiwikomix]

Lawlz at the SFR, and my inability to work a computer. I'll get something up there eventually.
Just think of the back roomers laughing at us right now :D

 

[Nigerian Star Storm]

They probably think it's cute, Probably one day they're gonna invade our miniature fort >_>.


Also, the Smash Front Room is like Fight club, Don't talk about it, but put it in your sigs just to make people wonder >_>.