Official Brawl Tier Discussion (OP Updated)

[Kiwikomix]

@ St. Viers: I looked at page 311 and you didn't say ANYTHING. You, sir, are a liar.

 

[St. Viers]

lol, whenever I posted my tier list XP

 

[A2ZOMG]

I have a request for the people who browse this thread. STOP QUOTING ENTIRE TIER LISTS.

Instead when you quote the person, remove the tier list from their post before you give your reasons why you agree or disagree with it. By quoting the person, you have already given the people on this forum access the the post where the tier list originated in the event anyone actually needs to see the tier list for reference.

I do not like quoted tier lists stretching posts in this topic. It makes it more tedious for me at least to follow points that discuss tier lists.

 

[DanGR]

God-
Snake
MK

High-
G&W
Falco
ROB
TL
Diddy Kong
Pikachu
Wolf
IC

Mid-
Olimar
Marth
Wario
DDD
Lucario
Fox
Squirtle
Kirby
Big DK
Zelda

Low-
Zamus
Ivysaur
Ike
Bowser
Sheik
Lucas
Luigi

Lowest-
Ness
Samus
Link
Sonic
Mario
Charizard
Peach
Yoshi
Jiggs
Ganon
CF

I edited it from last time. I'm sold on the top four I have and I'm most willing to move zelda and DDD up a few spots. Suggestions?

 

[St. Viers]

I have a request for the people who browse this thread. STOP QUOTING ENTIRE TIER LISTS.

Instead when you quote the person, remove the tier list from their post before you give your reasons why you agree or disagree with it. By quoting the person, you have already given the people on this forum access the the post where the tier list originated in the event anyone actually needs to see the tier list for reference.

I do not like quoted tier lists stretching posts in this topic. It makes it more tedious for me at least to follow points that discuss tier lists.

agreed

10char

 

[philbobjoe]

If you have any question as to the ability/placement of Marth, just look here:

http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=157346

 

[A2ZOMG]

tier list

Hmm, the top and high tier seems pretty close.

The mid tier. Olimar needs to go down. Marth, Dedede, and Zelda specifically should be higher.

Low tier. ZSS and Luigi should make it to the mid tier. Ivysaur needs to be way down in the bottom tier.

Bottom tier. Ness is actually very very good, minus the fact he gets chaingrabbed easily. He should be mid tier if you ask me. Mario, Charizard, and Jigglypuff also need to go higher to varying extents. Sonic needs to be a bit lower.

I'll go in depth for my reasons on request I guess. <<

 

[Nigerian Star Storm]

.......What the heck did I just read O_o

 

[Deathcarter]

tier list by DanGR

Lowest tier needs a lot of work. Charizard cannot be that low. He has a decent approach with rock smash (when not against projectile spammers), he has a better recovery than everyone else in low and lowest tier except Sonic and Luigi (who IMO needs to be higher.) He is probably equal or better than Squirtle with longevity, great edgeguarding on par with Squirtle's, great recovery, and KO potential. As Squirtle is in the lower half of mid, Charizard should be at the top of low at worst, bottom of mid. I cannot vividly describe what else is wrong with the two other tiers.

 

[ShengNu]

lmao... nothing like a tier list to get nerds going crazy and cussin at each other... seems more like an arguement than a discussion to me.. LOL >__>

 

[Nigerian Star Storm]

Calling someone a "Nerd" on a video game board is completely hypocritial. We're all nerds in some fashion, but that doesn't mean we're social rejects.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

For the most part the top list with all the reasons is more of a hope to get some discussion on where people go. I also like to think that the top list is most accurate. The middle list is my own opinion based on what I stated in the previous list. In that list I did move Yoshi down quite a bit due to his poor tournament record and awful matchups. However in the upper list I kept him their since it seemed too drastic to pull him all the way down to the bottom. Not to mention I watched a Yoshi AT video and the little guy has some interesting tricks. A lot of yoshi players have stated he isn't that bad and he was buffed from melee which made me hesitant of knocking him down to bottom in anything but my opinion list. DDD has too good of a tournament record to let his matchups pull him down a significant amount. I read your tier list and I agree he gets too much credit. I did the best I could bumping him down, but I couldn't pull him down too drastically.

The bottom list is pretty much an exact copy of Longhorn's. If you read my the text you will see that I give him credit for that list. I just added matchups and tournament rankings to it so I could get an idea of how my tier list will look. Which are the above two. I also used yours as a reference since I think you have good ideas.

despite what yoshi fans say, he has AWFUL matchups against most characters... and offers nothing against the high ranked charcters. I'm pretty sure he doesn't even have tourney data holding him up... I really don't think anything suggests yoshi is anything but bottom tier.

DDD has great tourney results because he's popular and was the first charcter to have an AT discovered and exploited (his super easy chaingrab) now that other charcters have developed, DDD looks pretty overated. He was only good becuase he developed fast... but now that other charcters are starting to develop, it's become obvious that there isn't much to DDD which should keep him where he is.... I think anyt charcter who has more bad matchups than good matchups doen't belong ranked that high.

 

[ShengNu]

Calling someone a "Nerd" on a video game board is completely hypocritial. We're all nerds in some fashion, but that doesn't mean we're social rejects.

rofl i consider a nerd anyone who goes as far as to swearing at another person over a video game its called a game for a reason lets leave it that way not make it our life.. degrading yourself as far as that over someone's oppinion on a game is just pathetic so idc if you want to flame me for saying it i will not take back what i said :] stands strong* ^^*

 

[Emperor Time]

rofl i consider a nerd anyone who goes as far as to swearing at another person over a video game its called a game for a reason lets leave it that way not make it our life.. degrading yourself as far as that over someone's oppinion on a game is just pathetic so idc if you want to flame me for saying it i will not take back what i said :] stands strong* ^^*

When did this happen?

 

[ShengNu]

cant read for yourself? theres 412 pages pick one xD

 

[RedfishX]

The tier list

Personally, I believe Zamus should be higher than that. She's quick and has been doing pretty well in tourneys. In addition, if it were up to me, Pikachu would be over Diddy, but I can see arguments to go either way.

 

[Deathcarter]

DDD has great tourney results because he's popular and was the first charcter to have an AT discovered and exploited (his super easy chaingrab) now that other charcters have developed, DDD looks pretty overated. He was only good becuase he developed fast... but now that other charcters are starting to develop, it's become obvious that there isn't much to DDD which should keep him where he is.... I think anyt charcter who has more bad matchups than good matchups doen't belong ranked that high.

DDD's placement is up in the air since it is debatable as to how much tourney results stack up against the percieved metagame being develop behind the scenes. Personally, I beleive DDD should be in the lower-high to the bottom of high because there is practically no way to argue with tourney results unless they are deemed irrelevent.

rofl i consider a nerd anyone who goes as far as to swearing at another person over a video game its called a game for a reason lets leave it that way not make it our life.. degrading yourself as far as that over someone's oppinion on a game is just pathetic so idc if you want to flame me for saying it i will not take back what i said :] stands strong* ^^*

If you were refering to me as a nerd, I technically never swared in this forum. Plus, the title of nerd is just that, a title. It cannot be taken seriously in an intelligent or relevent context because it is simply a sterotype and sterotypes have no place in the inteligent portions of society (yes I deem Smashboards intelligent).

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

DDD's placement is up in the air since it is debatable as to how much tourney results stack up against the percieved metagame being develop behind the scenes. Personally, I beleive DDD should be in the lower-high to the bottom of high because there is practically no way to argue with tourney results unless they are deemed irrelevent.

well... I don't know how the time frames of the tourneys, but I think DDD won the early tourneys which are now irrelevant... and if he's still winning, his popularity is helping him... I really don't think he's any better than Low high tier

 

[Nigerian Star Storm]

despite what yoshi fans say, he has AWFUL matchups against most characters... and offers nothing against the high ranked charcters. I'm pretty sure he doesn't even have tourney data holding him up... I really don't think anything suggests yoshi is anything but bottom tier.

DDD has great tourney results because he's popular and was the first charcter to have an AT discovered and exploited (his super easy chaingrab) now that other charcters have developed, DDD looks pretty overated. He was only good becuase he developed fast... but now that other charcters are starting to develop, it's become obvious that there isn't much to DDD which should keep him where he is.... I think anyt charcter who has more bad matchups than good matchups doen't belong ranked that high.

I wouldn't quite say that now. DDD's still going strong and is actually catching up with Metaknight in tournament placing. I don't think the drop your predicting would be as radical as you say, and DDD's Chain Grab isn't nesscessarily his only asset. He would still have great WOP abilites, the great projectile buffer that is his Waddle Dees, and great KO potential. Also, for the bolded part, that is one of the main reasons why that Matchup chart isn't completely right. It shouldn't be totally trusted, as in it's complete fact, but as a reference guide for matchups. Also, you have to realize a lot of those disadvantages are relatively minor, not complete hard counters like Marth vs Ness. It is still very possible that DDD can win in a disadvantaged situation

 

[St. Viers]

yeah, the character matchup chart is meh...

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

I wouldn't quite say that now. DDD's still going strong and is actually catching up with Metaknight in tournament placing. I don't think the drop your predicting would be as radical as you say, and DDD's Chain Grab isn't nesscessarily his only asset. He would still have great WOP abilites, the great projectile buffer that is his Waddle Dees, and great KO potential. Also, for the bolded part, that is one of the main reasons why that Matchup chart isn't completely right. It shouldn't be totally trusted, as in it's complete fact, but as a reference guide for matchups. Also, you have to realize a lot of those disadvantages are relatively minor, not complete hard counters like Marth vs Ness. It is still very possible that DDD can win in a disadvantaged situation

true that what I said might be a bit extreme, but I maintain that he doesn't deserve his current placement. even if the disadvantages aren't great... niether are most of his advantages. while he still has great WOP abilities and good KO ability, his waddle dees aren't tier bumping projectiles, they are good and certainly have their uses, but they aren't amazing.
DDD is slow as hell in the air and on the ground.
He has an almost non existent approach game.
He's a massive target for most attacks... it jut seems like he more or less breaks even on pros and cons.... shouldn't that make him mid tier?

 

[RedfishX]

God-
Snake

well... I don't know how the time frames of the tourneys, but I think DDD won the early tourneys which are now irrelevant... and if he's still winning, his popularity is helping him... I really don't think he's any better than Low high tier

To Sonic: Yeah, I agree with that. But the tier list I quoted has it in the middle of middle, and I think it looks good there.

To the Tier List: Don't you think there is WAY too much people in the "Lowest tier"?

I would make God tier "Top Tier", rename low "Below Average", And then split the lowest tier at Peach, so the Bottom tier is Peach, Yoshi, Jiggly, Ganon, and CF.

 

[St. Viers]

I'm sorry, but his advantages far outweght the bad.

He has incredible range, couples with great tilts (up/f/jab), aerials (b/n/situational f), grab range and throws.

Even though he's big, he's hard to camp because of his projectile, which blocks most others. His f-smash is slow, but his others are alright, and still kill. Also, he's heavy, and has a good reovery, meaning he lasts a long time.

 

[ShengNu]

DDD's placement is up in the air since it is debatable as to how much tourney results stack up against the percieved metagame being develop behind the scenes. Personally, I beleive DDD should be in the lower-high to the bottom of high because there is practically no way to argue with tourney results unless they are deemed irrelevent.



If you were refering to me as a nerd, I technically never swared in this forum. Plus, the title of nerd is just that, a title. It cannot be taken seriously in an intelligent or relevent context because it is simply a sterotype and sterotypes have no place in the inteligent portions of society (yes I deem Smashboards intelligent).

rofl w.e dude i wasnt talking about you.. if you havent sworn then wth you getting all defensive for? theres 412 pages i dont remember which i was on but i did see ppl flaming each other for oppinions.. and yeah... sure... stereotype.. considering i explained what i felt the word meant eh? i have no problem with what your saying i had a problem with the flaming i saw so i commented on it.. if you have a problem with it, ill let you know now that i really dont care and dont plan on argueing with you over this o_o

 

[Emblem Lord]

Pardon, have you played with GOOD people before?

I played with a guy who's really good with Marth and Olimar, granted he's a lot better with Olimar. I use MK, if you forgot. When I play his Olimar, we usually go dead even, usually alternating between wins. However, when I played his Marth, I more or less owned him every time. Also, if I remember right, the last tournament I went to didn't really showcase any Marths, probably because everyone there realized he wasn't that good.

Now chill, because your ignorance isn't getting on my nerves yet, but it might if you keep it up, ya know

I sure have played with good people.

Guess what?

There are ALOT more good MK's compared to good Marth's. MK is a much more popular character so this is to be expected.

You ****** your buddies Marth with MK means jack ****.

Whenever I read your post about Marth you say dumb ****. Things like Marth can't pressure and other such nonsense.

Stop it.

Tehboh: What? Dude...I'm the only one in this thread and the Brawl match-up thread posting that really KNOWS Marth.

I'm not a Marth fanatic. I have done soooooooooo much work in the Marth forums, and I know my ****. Marth's match-ups can have him as no less then high tier.

If you think you know your **** BDawg then debate me.

 

[Nigerian Star Storm]

Alright, members of the SFR (Smash Front Room) We need to decide a place where we can disscuss in an open chat room all of us have access to pronto.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

I have access to.... 0 chatrooms... unless you count AIM

 

[hizzlum]

I don't think MK is even a possibility anymore. He's just about locked at the top with Snake until proven otherwise.

So true, from what we know about brawl the two best characters are Snake and Metaknight;so the will probably be the two in the top tier unless the SBR make a bigger top tier with around six(where Falco, ROB, Marth,G&W, DDD(No order) seem like the characters who would be shosen to fill the bottom of the top or consist of a very high tier above a high tier)
Question: Does the SBR announce when they will provide a tier list beacuse for brawl, because it took them a while to make tier lists in melee

 

[Nigerian Star Storm]

Can't AIM support multi person conversation?

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

Can't AIM support multi person conversation?

yes it can

 

[Nigerian Star Storm]

Ah that's good, I guess I need to install it to my upstairs computer.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

okay well... we should get back on topic... I'll be back in a few minutes... no more than half an hour.

 

[Nigerian Star Storm]

Of course. This discussion can wait for a little while

 

[SaxDude93]

I'm bored. I need a n00b to post a tier list/say something stupid so I can rip them apart and feel better about my self.

 

[ShengNu]

I sure have played with good people.

Guess what?

There are ALOT more good MK's compared to good Marth's. MK is a much more popular character so this is to be expected.

You ****** your buddies Marth with MK means jack ****.

Whenever I read your post about Marth you say dumb ****. Things like Marth can't pressure and other such nonsense.

Stop it.

Tehboh: What? Dude...I'm the only one in this thread and the Brawl match-up thread posting that really KNOWS Marth.

I'm not a Marth fanatic. I have done soooooooooo much work in the Marth forums, and I know my ****. Marth's match-ups can have him as no less then high tier.

If you think you know your **** BDawg then debate me.

wow someone challenged Emblem Lord on his knowledge of marth? whoever it was prepare to get owned >__> dude you put too much work into the Marth threads to be taking his shiet eat him alive pl0x :]

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

BTW... since that matchup chart is less than accurate, I've made a thread in the zelda boards... within a month I should have a more reliable list of matchups... even if they are only for one character it should be very helpful

 

[Nigerian Star Storm]

Emblem Lord knows his **** about Marth. It'd be best not to **** with him on the subject

 

[Dexter Morgan]

Top Tier

Snake
Toon Link
Metaknight

High Tier

Diddy Kong
Falco
Luigi
Lucas
Marth
Mr. Game and Watch
Pikmin and Olimar
Pit
R.O.B.
King Dedede
Pikachu
Wolf

Mid Tier

Bowser
Fox
Ike
Ice Climbers
Wario
Sheik
Zelda
Samus
Zero Suit Samus
Sonic
Lucario
Link
Ness
Donkey Kong
Captain Falcon
Mario
Peach
Ganondorf
Kirby

Bottom Tier

Yoshi
Jigglypuff

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

Bold = too high
underline = too low

actually... this list is far enough off that it's not worth it

Top Tier

Snake
Toon Link
Metaknight

High Tier

Diddy Kong
Falco
Luigi
Lucas
Marth
Mr. Game and Watch
Pikmin and Olimar
Pit
R.O.B.
King Dedede
Pikachu
Wolf

Mid Tier

Bowser
Fox
Ike
Ice Climbers
Wario
Sheik
Zelda
Samus
Zero Suit Samus
Sonic
Lucario
Link
Ness
Donkey Kong
Captain Falcon
Mario
Peach
Ganondorf
Kirby

Bottom Tier

Yoshi
Jigglypuff

 

[metalmonstar]

Alright, members of the SFR (Smash Front Room) We need to decide a place where we can disscuss in an open chat room all of us have access to pronto.

I think our best bet would be to create a google document for tier discussion. It is not immediate as your chat room idea but it allows us to communicate in real time, allows us to update and check things out on our own time also. All you need to sign up is an email account and a password. I could create the document and then just add you all.