Official BBR Tier List v7

[#HBC | Joker]

Ganondorf never did rise, he's been at the bottom for awhile now. In fact, C. Falcon is the only character who has ever been considered worse than Ganon by this tierlist. Ganon started off above Falcon, and fell below him. He never rose above him.

 

[Meru.]

'He' was supposed to refer to Falcon

 

[Fuujin]

I don't think people understand how important movement speed is in this game.

The slowest characters in the game, Ganon, Zelda, Dedede, etc. can literally just get zoned out by some characters.
When your character moves slow as balls you're able to get away with so much stuff that shouldn't be safe but is.
In Dedede's case he at least has an amazing grab, so you can't just poke his shield safely all day.
Ganon and Zelda have some of the worst grabs in the game, so this makes shield grabbing and running in to punish some things really hard for them sometimes.
Falcon being the second fastest at least allows him to get in on OR run away from his opponent.
I mean yeah his options are fairly ****ty when he does get in but I think actually being able to get in is more important in the long run.

Imo having more reliable options(even if they are bad) is better than having big, dumb, strong hitboxes that are easily avoidable.
I just think you'd have to play really smart and patiently to actually be effective with Falcon.

 

[z00ted]

Really smart post, Fuujin.
I agree 100%.

 

[Jimmyfosho]

I agree with almost everything Fuujin said except for the last sentence... considering you have to play smart and patient with ANY character to be effective, not just Falcon. Even then Falcon doesn't get many rewards for playing smart... unless the opponent is pretty dumb.

 

[Mota]

Falcon has balls priority and range. Throw out hitboxes as GnW and Falcon can't do squat

 

[smashkng]

Falcon can't shield from a dash until he runs like 1/3 of FD or something. His dash grab is hardly unpredictable to see coming and his dash attack is extremely unsafe on shield. His walk speed also sucks. His aerials are terrible for hitting the shield of the opponent and are very easily intercepted. In other words, he doesn't really have a good zoning. Falcon can use his mobility for repositioning, but barely for actually approaching.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

If Falcon somehow manages to scrape out a lead, there are a few characters where he can at least attempt to run down the clock and win.

If Ganondorf somehow manages to scrape out a lead, the other character just runs up, slaps him in the face and takes the lead back.

Thus, Falcon > Ganondorf

 

[z00ted]

LMFAO it's so true and sad.
Brawl is so lame sometimes.

 

[Psychoace]

Falcon has balls priority and range. Throw out hitboxes as GnW and Falcon can't do squat

Same could be said for most of low tier. If by hitboxes you mean nair we can respond to that, same with bair.

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OMG NOOOOO HE'S NOT!!

He just sucks and has so many fundamental flaws that make him more difficult to play, but that's again because he is so bad. You have to be precise in his execution because he risks ****ed up himself because his hitboxes and frame data is so ****ed because he is so terrible that I want to kill a Jigglypuff. High learning curve pshhh, Falcon has a medium one at the very best. Play Sheik if you want high mobility AND difficulty (and decency).

Falcon is 2nd worst imo, only Ganondorf can be lower. He never should have risen.

None of that convinced me as to why I should see your opinion on falcon being second worst.

Everyone in low tier has bad frame data.

Falcon can't shield from a dash until he runs like 1/3 of FD or something. His dash grab is hardly unpredictable to see coming and his dash attack is extremely unsafe on shield. His walk speed also sucks. His aerials are terrible for hitting the shield of the opponent and are very easily intercepted. In other words, he doesn't really have a good zoning. Falcon can use his mobility for repositioning, but barely for actually approaching.

His dash to shield does suck but we also benefit from the slide it gives us. One of the first rules about playing falcon is to never approach with dash attack or raptor boost.. dash attack however is actually surprisingly good for punishing. When has walking speed ever really mattered? It's not like you're going to walk away from your opponent. As for his aerials knee is very easily shield grabbed, nair can be if you shield the first hit, dair won't get grabbed, and Uair typically isn't used for shields anyway. He does have a hard time approaching, but stages assist that at times.

 

[Lukingordex]

My prediction was not wrong.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Walking speed matters a lot, psychoace.

A fast walk lets you move without committing.

 

[Zano]

That's probably the only reason Marth is still so high up.

 

[da K.I.D.]

fast characters can foxtrot and pivot their runs though much better than spacing with a walk

 

[Doc King]

I actually agree completely on what Fuujin said about Falcon. Speed is a really important factor in brawl. What made Sonic move to where he is now? What makes Link, Zelda, and Ganondorf so goddamn awful? What made Dedede and G&W lower than they are now? (No it's not about Dedede not chaingrabbing lightweights because he has **** on the bad ones like Puff and Zelda and can't do **** against the 3rd and 4th best in the game which are Diddy and Climbers).

It's not everything, but it's a really important factor towards this game because it's comboing system is extremely limited.

Edit: Also, items are really important in the game.

 

[C.J.]

fast characters can foxtrot and pivot their runs though much better than spacing with a walk

That MIGHT be true for Sonic, but in general I 100% disagree. Having complete access to your entire moveset and not needing to wait out you ID animation to be able to shield is invaluable for so many characters.

 

[Z'zgashi]

Speed is the reason everyone hates yoshi. That and his long *** tongue and eggs lol.

 

[Espy Rose]

That MIGHT be true for Sonic, but in general I 100% disagree. Having complete access to your entire moveset and not needing to wait out you ID animation to be able to shield is invaluable for so many characters.

It'd help to true pivot every now and then. It'd definitely help to keep those options open while simultaneously getting you from one spot on the map to another.

Then again, it still really only seriously applies to Sonic.

 

[Delta-cod]

That MIGHT be true for Sonic, but in general I 100% disagree. Having complete access to your entire moveset and not needing to wait out you ID animation to be able to shield is invaluable for so many characters.

I think it depends on the character. Some characters benefit more from their standing options than others.

For example, I have no problem trotting around with Yoshi to space, because the options I typically use are Usmash, dash/pivot grab, or Bair, all of which can be done out of a dashing animation. I don't really see much use in me walking around to preserve the use of my tilts or jab (although jab is very good) because I'm not really going to be spacing/zoning with them.

 

[Espy Rose]

If it wasn't obvious, it boils down to how reliable your options are out of dashes and walking. Some characters, like Sonic, have excellent options from a dash.

 

[C.J.]

It'd help to true pivot every now and then. It'd definitely help to keep those options open while simultaneously getting you from one spot on the map to another.

Then again, it still really only seriously applies to Sonic.

It certainly helps for all characters at times, but Sonic and like Fox typically seem to get the most use out of it.

I think it depends on the character. Some characters benefit more from their standing options than others.

For example, I have no problem trotting around with Yoshi to space, because the options I typically use are Usmash, dash/pivot grab, or Bair, all of which can be done out of a dashing animation. I don't really see much use in me walking around to preserve the use of my tilts or jab (although jab is very good) because I'm not really going to be spacing/zoning with them.

Honestly, most of the time I talk about things, I exclude Yoshi; but that's my ignorance so no johns. He works so differently than almost every other character I just don't know that much about him other than how to fight him with Marth. So I easily defer to you in this regard and accept your opinion. Doesn't the ability of Draconic reversing make dashing safer/give you more options overall as well?

If it wasn't obvious, it boils down to how reliable your options are out of dashes and walking. Some characters, like Sonic, have excellent options from a dash.

Agreed- I just feel as though most characters, especially the more relevant/tourny common ones (Marth, MK (ohgodftiltwhyisthismovesoannoying), Snake, etc) gain infinitely more from walking in many situations than they do from a dash.

 

[Espy Rose]

They infinitely more because they have better options out of the walk vs. the dash, more or less.

 

[-Cross-]

Honestly, most of the time I talk about things, I exclude Yoshi; but that's my ignorance so no johns. He works so differently than almost every other character I just don't know that much about him other than how to fight him with Marth. So I easily defer to you in this regard and accept your opinion. Doesn't the ability of Draconic reversing make dashing safer/give you more options overall as well?

DR does make dashing safer but dashing can be safe even without DR. I say this b/c Deltacod can't DR

Spoiler

(on command at least).

 

[Delta-cod]

Honestly, most of the time I talk about things, I exclude Yoshi; but that's my ignorance so no johns. He works so differently than almost every other character I just don't know that much about him other than how to fight him with Marth. So I easily defer to you in this regard and accept your opinion. Doesn't the ability of Draconic reversing make dashing safer/give you more options overall as well?

Like I said, it's totally dependent on a character's options. DR definitely is good for options out of dash. I personally don't have the tech skill to use it consistently (I'm technically challenged, lol), but the Yoshis that do make good use of it.

Agreed- I just feel as though most characters, especially the more relevant/tourny common ones (Marth, MK (ohgodftiltwhyisthismovesoannoying), Snake, etc) gain infinitely more from walking in many situations than they do from a dash.

I also can agree with this, so I see where you were coming from with regards to walking being better than dashing. But I feel like that has more to do with the characters having a good option pool in general rather than an amazing walk, although it definitely helps.

Cross, get outta here with that. I DR in between stocks all the time

Spoiler

although most come out as SH Dair

. GET ON MY LEVEL

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

I disagree with Luigi being so low. I'd agree to him being somewhere in midtier, but at the bottom of mid tier almost bottom tier? Although, I do not have much reasoning for placing him higher. I guess I'm more surprised by what is holding him back from being higher.

 

[Mekos]

luigi sucks
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C4Et96QqCxs

and that's a low tier

 

[san.]

I'm with Espy on this. Some characters are fine with dashing.

Ike likes to dash since it has a pretty good distance, speed for his weight, and the sliding allows jab OoS (and sometimes bair OoS) to punish many more attacks easily. The animation also looks similar to his dash attack and his dash shield grab also slides during the grab animation.

One does need to mix in walks though, since turnaround jab, pivot grab, and getting the spacing before a dash is important.

 

[infiniteV115]

luigi sucks
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C4Et96QqCxs

and that's a low tier

Jband was doing some pretty stupid things but yeah I definitely think Luigi is low tier (and worse than Lucas)
And goddamn that finish was awesome, and it went perfectly with the music. I think I'll watch it again and edit in my reaction.

Edit: Well god ****ing damn.

 

[Mekos]

lolololol yea...I kinda move to the beat of the music while I play. I'm weird I guess! lol

but yea lucas is way better than luigi

 

[[FBC] Papa Mink]

That's why i listen to music when I play

 

[Dcold]

Ingame sounds are a big part of the game imo, some things are easier indicated by sounds rather than sight. Like for me, charging needles it's easier to tell by the amount of clicks I hear to keep track of the number of needles I have; the sound of ftilts letting me know the rhythm I need to press with. Plus I know when some of my techniques are working by the way I hit the controller (yeah I'm weird).

I used to play with music, but sometimes I'd get caught up in the song and play stupid, or it just wouldn't allow me to think clearly. But that's just me.

 

[Mekos]

lol reminds me of this one time....

okay I'll tell ya the story!! A huge crowd was yelling against me and someone told me to put headphones on. I did and it ended up killing me because I was playing on Frigrate!! ahahaaha good times.

I don't play with headphones. I just love playing with hacked music.

 

[[FBC] Papa Mink]

everyone hates my hacked music cause i have loud angry white people music

 

[Fuujin]

Oh look,

Mekos taking the thread completely off topic with an irrelevant post.















Once again.

 

[BSP]

It'd be funny if you were the one to get infracted Fuujin for that gif XD

 

[[FBC] Papa Mink]

My favorite part of Fuujins posts is that he is always getting mad at someone for doing something.


and then he posts a gif that makes me highly unamused

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

And it takes many to keep a thread derailed :D

I suppose the only thing I can really say that's negative about luigi is that sliding of his is rather irritating with his shield. He cannot punish nearly as many things. Other than this issue, I'd say he has a decent enough recovery. Also, I suppose he does not have much of a ground game. Other than his jab and Utilt, his entire ground game moves are relatively bad. Only nice attribute is his aerials which I suppose do not help a ton since its fairly limited range and he is a slow moving character.

 

[Tesh]

When your tilts and jab are complete **** like Sonic, you don't **** around with walking even when you have the 2nd fastest walk in the game.

And yea, Dcold. Playing with music isn't for everyone. However, with varied conditions at tournaments (loud venue, ****ed up old box TVs we have to use), you definitely need to be able to fully use your sight to compensate when you can't hear.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

I walk with every character, its so good.

lol reminds me of this one time....

okay I'll tell ya the story!! A huge crowd was yelling against me and someone told me to put headphones on. I did and it ended up killing me because I was playing on Frigrate!! ahahaaha good times.

I don't play with headphones. I just love playing with hacked music.

The flashing lights weren't enough of an indication?

 

[BSP]

Apparently not if it killed him