Official BBR Tier List v7

[[FBC] Papa Mink]

^^

Def not.

 

[Doc King]

Dedede ***** Puff because Dedede's bair beats like everything and Jigglypuff can't DI out of King Dedede's d throw.

Here's what I think Dedede's low tier (The v.7 Tier list) matchups are from worst to best:

+2
+2
+2
+2
+3
+3
+3
+4
+4

 

[Grim Tuesday]

You had to explain the joke because nobody asked, didn't you?

 

[Doc King]

Grim why do you make it seem like Puff beats Dedede? This topic is getting old and tiring.

Edit: Sheik lacks results as far as I know.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

I didn't even mention the MU in my last post lolwut

Jigglypuff certainly doesn't beat Dedede.

 

[Doc King]

oh whoops lol

Although Sheik lacks results and losses hard to pika and climbers. Theory it looks like Sheik is actually better but as of now, nope.

 

[[FBC] Papa Mink]

Sheik is ***.

Ed won't even go sheik against me anymore.

Sheik has holes that are easy to take advantage of.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Got any videos of you doing Sheik vs. Puff?

I need to learn this MU.

 

[[FBC] Papa Mink]

With puff? I don't... think i do.

I'll do some friendlies with Ed and Renki in these next few vids and try to get some up.

Just watch your landings.

 

[Psychoace]

Squirtle alone already crushes all the low tiers lol.

not falcon.

 

[Lukingordex]

not falcon.

I foresee a big discussion between you and Papa Mink.

 

[[FBC] Papa Mink]

The Papa has already spoken.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

With puff? I don't... think i do.

I'll do some friendlies with Ed and Renki in these next few vids and try to get some up.

Just watch your landings.

Yeah, I generally go pretty even... its just the punishes that get me. Its so hard to be wary of them all the time but, because of dash attack, DACUS and needles, I have to

 

[[FBC] Papa Mink]

Punishing landings is like, half of brawl's metagame. Sheik can't kill us (even if we miss rest) until over 80. lol.

 

[Lukingordex]

Just remembering the times when R.O.B was 4th and Zelda was Mid Tier...

Something like 2008.

 

[Dcold]

Sheik should be higher, but she doesn't really have results that prove it. Not like I really care where any character is on the tier list though, doesn't stop anyone (maybe I should speak for myself) from using a character they think is good/know well.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

(even if we miss rest) until over 80. lol.

Switch to Zelda. lolololol.

 

[-LzR-]

Is there enough time for her to do anything deadly after transforming?

 

[KuroganeHammer]

Yes.

iirc transform takes about 120 frames. That leaves a second or so to up smash.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Obviously we just SDI out of the Smashes in that case.

Zeldasobad

 

[KuroganeHammer]

Up smash is semi reliable I guess. I think DI affects Zelda's u-smash more than SDI seeing as it only has a 0.1x SDI multiplier. I've tried numerous times to SDI out of the move even with frame advance, but to no avail.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

I'm sure its doable using both sticks and with the ample preparation missing a rest gives you, I'd just need to know the direction.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

I know how to SDI, Grimmy, and it was through frame advance, which essentially means perfect DI and SDI.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

And I've seen people SDI out of it.

At least, I think I have.

 

[Juushichi]

Sheik vs Puff is actually pretty dumb.

I wouldn't be surprised if she does lose that MU to be honest. I can definitely see why Ed wouldn't play that MU. It's very dumb and hard to get any real options going. Puff plays this MU like most of her MU's in Melee and Sheik doesn't have any good answers to it really. I don't play it because I can play a much easier MU with another one of my characters.

Not that Puff is common (fortunately I have at least an ok puff around me, sorta) but I don't think any Sheik would enjoy this MU.

 

[infiniteV115]

I believe different characters can SDI out of it with different levels of difficulty Grim. iirc Diddy can get out pretty easily.

ANd if you have a full second after the transformation you can LK, ftilt or utilt as well.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Entirely dependent on the Wii's speed, mind you.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

And I've seen people SDI out of it.

At least, I think I have.

That's just normal DI. Characters like Marth, Lucas, Ness, Samus and others can all just hold up and it gets them out of up smash.

 

[da K.I.D.]

Yes.

iirc transform takes about 120 frames. That leaves a second or so to up smash.

You know that transformation is completely dependant on the wii you're playing on right?

 

[[FBC] Papa Mink]

I should clarify ed doesn't play sheik against my zss

 

[da K.I.D.]

Rofl.

We should have known better than to assume good things about puff...

 

[[FBC] Papa Mink]

I'll go puff next time and get some vids.

I just prefer +1 to -1

 

[Grim Tuesday]

In my experience, its -1 or a difficult even, so I'd love to be proven wrong.

 

[[FBC] Papa Mink]

I'll go puff vs ed's sheik next time i see him in tourney.

 

[C.J.]

Or you could come over on Thursday to his fest

(do that one)

 

[[FBC] Papa Mink]

Uhm.

I may do that.

The only thing is
A) I'll need a full car. Because i'm driving to Bonnaroo this coming week (june 4th i leave) and ima need to preserve all the gas money i can.

B) I am scheduled for work on Thurs night. But i usually don't get called in.

 

[Psychoace]

MINK ILY <3

Finally somebody who agrees with me that Falcon is worst ^_^

Spoiler

Those traits are pretty damn useless though ... like Falcon's jab is weak and unless you jab -> grab somebody you won't get anything worth mentioning out of it. Uair is a good move but one good move doesn't make a character [see: Samus' Zair] and while his dash speed is good his walking speed isn't - air speed and walking speed are the most important aspects of mobility alongside the jump start-up lag. With that in mind, Falcon's speed is overall pretty decent but considering he has like no viable options out of either dash or jump it's pretty much worthless - being fast for the sake of being fast isn't something that suddenly makes the character any better. It just prevents him from being even more terrible.

I know people like Fuujin will leave a dumb comment about this but Zelda does definitely have some selling points - she can cover aerial approaches of certain character pretty decently and unlike Samus, Falcon, Jiggs and other contenders for worst character in the game she has a good GTFO move in shape of dsmash. She doesn't have much going for her but the few things she *does* have going for her add up to something. Compare that to Samus who has seemingly good traits - long ranged zoning tool, heavy weight, very good recovery, projectiles and overall good frame data - but still doesn't add up to anything worthwhile. I'd put Jiggs in the same boat as that, whereas Zelda seems to be closer to Ganon's kind of character design: few options but powerful enough to actually get **** done. Jiggs / Samus are more like, a bunch of options but none of them actually do anything.

Why would you just jab and not follow up with something? Follow ups for grab are character dependent but up air is guaranteed on just about every character. Speed also helps in punishing which people forget falcon can do (knee). What would you consider a viable option out of dash? Characters under falcon don't have any better options.. We have hyphen smashing which is another thing people forget about, a good sliding shield grab that almost compensates for our bad grab range, another under estimated pivot grab (imo the lag throws people off), dash attack (useful for punishing), and AC dair. Why is zelda's "gtfo" move so much better than falcons dsmash in terms of resetting situations? We can also just run away we don't have to push them for a reset.

Think you overlooked my response there.

Falcon is complete ***.

There's a difference between someone being good with the character like... who was it, reflex? Someone went CFalc and did good against MK recently.
And Ally is good too.

But, imo the character is *** and a half.

Considering they use the meta-game (that I imagine no one understands unless you play falcon) correctly I would say they play the character rather well. Falcon is a very core fundamentals based character You have to be precise in his execution but if you have good fundamentals he has the potential to be decent. He is a very high learning curve character. The game is about baiting mainly and punishing your opponent the better character just gives better options. He is punished rather easily, but he also punishes rather well in my opinion. A sort of glass cannon if you will. He plays like a hit and run character and his mobility gives him the speed to do this rather well.

I agree as well.
Falcon can't do anything accept running lol


Imo It's more like

All>>>>>>>>>
>>>

And none of those guys can even run.. You'd be surprised how important mobility is for a character.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

You know that transformation is completely dependant on the wii you're playing on right?

You did see the word "about" in my post, right?

I've had Transform take about 5-6 seconds before on terrible Wii's. It makes me laugh.

tl;dr play on a decent Wii

 

[da K.I.D.]

Or hack your wiis.

When I play with custom textures, transform loads the info straight from the sd card. Its so fast it actually makes playing shielda consistently in actual match viable

 

[Meru.]

He is a very high learning curve character.

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OMG NOOOOO HE'S NOT!!

He just sucks and has so many fundamental flaws that make him more difficult to play, but that's again because he is so bad. You have to be precise in his execution because he risks ****ed up himself because his hitboxes and frame data is so ****ed because he is so terrible that I want to kill a Jigglypuff. High learning curve pshhh, Falcon has a medium one at the very best. Play Sheik if you want high mobility AND difficulty (and decency).

Falcon is 2nd worst imo, only Ganondorf can be lower. He never should have risen.